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Include

Member
Oct 25, 2017
836
Ladies and gentlemen good morning! I see a lot of things have been going on, suspicion, doubt, paranoia... Everything I was hoping this Buffy game is gonna be! I applaud you all for the interesting arguments! This how we survive the scums and leave them no room to plot against us.

Now let get into it again!

rac I thought about it too, but it all came together once I remembered the perceived misconception about how newbies are supposed to act like. Think about it, I voiced out a doubt about Terra, Fran knowing I am new to this game expected his dismiss will not be met with any resistance and thus not rising any doubts about his allegiances, unfortunately I am apparently an aggressive newbie which kinda put him on the spot. This is obviously my own train of thoughts and opinion.

Terraforce Whether my opinion regarding you and Fran is correct or not, it remain to be seen and unless one of you get voted out/killed we will unfortunately not know the truth of it. I am keen to see any evolution of the various players and how it challenges my belief.

Sawneeks Fair enough about Terra and Fran, for the better or worse my opinion stays unchanged for now. So... Your mind tells you I am a town but your gut has doubts about me?How about your heart Sawneeks? Let your heart guide you~
Seriously though, how come you didn't put me in the Neutral category? Is it because you are a neutral?

Sorian I have no idea whow that person is and unless you are a girl gaf I doubt you know me, I wasn't a huge figure on gaf nor am I a huge figure here.

Gorlak You think I am lying about something I spoke about outside of this game and is relevant to my own life? I am not even gonna engage you further.

Girlofgotham Well, I don't know anything about Fran & Terra history outside of this thread. I can only judge what I read here.

*Splinter Haha, aww *Splinter, you will always be the "*" (star) in everyone heart <3

Fran I only judge during the heat of the moment, right now it seems the pressure has dropped and you had time to collect your thoughts, I still cannot trust you regardless of what you are saying because I am following yesterday's events and my intuition. You may try and frame me as a scum and get me lynched but if I have to be scarified for the greater good then I am fine with it, the other townies getting the confirmation upon my death that I was one of theirs will help rise their paranoia and get to think more outside of the box than they usually do and thus giving a harder time to the scums.

Now though like I said before I am open minded about doubting other players and having too much of tunnel vision and fixation on Terra and Fran can harm my perception of what's going on. Some of you are pointing out nice facts about those who have been more passive in this game so far and you all have dropping some serious knowledge about your experiences, it's interesting to say the least.
 

Royal_Flush

Member
Oct 25, 2017
879
Include isn't squidy in disguise, she clearly is lifeline in disguise. The same over-eagerness in the first game. I'm awaiting the big conspiracy theory soon.


Normally I would say that DCPat's OMGUS vote for Sorian and the switch to Stan at the slightest amount of heat is a Scum tell, but given the short amount of time between the two votes, I'd say it's at least unlikely that other Scum members told him that serious OMGUS votes aren't a good look. So this series of events only justifies an even slighter Scum lean than it normally would.
 

DCPat

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,170

What does that mean?

i can kinda get what you are saying about trying to get something real out of Sorians nothing vote on you,
but i remain unconvinced about your reaction to my vote, you just keep saying it was oh so "suspicious" but dont elaborate further.
Do you have any actual reason to find my vote so troubling?

Only actual reason I have is that I don't like you stacked the vote. Meaning I now have 2 votes, without a good reason.
 

Ty4on

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,953
Norway
Because they are talking to me?
It does look a little hypocritical when you spent a lot of time attacking Terra for replying to you.
But hey, look who shows up after telling us he is done for today? Are you worried Terra? Why do you need to clarify anything to me? Nobody but me is suspecting you, surely the opinion of one person isn't scary enough to jump right in... Unless you have something you want to shut off any doubts fast.
 

Fran

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,167
Ugh Sorian with his 'random' vote. But he works at discord now, so that's cool (congrats on the new job btw!). Rather than a random D1 vote, why not just vote for someone for a reason, even if it is super tenuous? Or if it is random, why announce it? That will do nothing to scare a player.

Swamped also attacked Sorian's obvious random vote. Interesting.
 

Include

Member
Oct 25, 2017
836
It does look a little hypocritical when you spent a lot of time attacking Terra for replying to you.

Nope different situations, nobody has publicly accused me and voted for me yet. However, people demand to know my reasoning on accusing someone and thus I am providing them with the informations they seek.

But they're not though, some of them only mentioned you. So, why did you feel the need to respond to everybody in that list?

Aren't they? Minus Saw who I am accusing of being a neutral and thus answering her for a reason and *Splinter who I am joking with, the rest asked questions or justifications from me.
 

Ty4on

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,953
Norway
Nope different situations, nobody has publicly accused me and voted for me yet. However, people demand to know my reasoning on accusing someone and thus I am providing them with the informations they seek.
So you didn't want to know Terra's intentions?

It seems pretty given to me when you vote for someone you also want information from them; especially when they have less than 10 posts.
 

gir

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,019
Gorlak and Sorian mention you but don't ask you any questions, in fact they don't even quote you
 

gir

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,019
let me rephrase then, Sorian made some throwaway comments and you felt the need to respond to them directly. Why?
 

Include

Member
Oct 25, 2017
836
Gorlak and Sorian mention you but don't ask you any questions, in fact they don't even quote you

Gorlak asked me to provide him with informations about me being a noob or not. For Sorian it's fair enough. But hey you only got 1 person right out of 8.

So you didn't want to know Terra's intentions?
It seems pretty given to me when you vote for someone you also want information from them; especially when they have less than 10 posts.

What's your real argument here? You compared two incomparable situations and now you are trying to stir the conversation on something else. Matter of fact is, I answered people questions regarding my opinion, I didn't defend myself of accusation of being a scum unlike Terra. Thus it doesn't make me an hypocrite.
 

Include

Member
Oct 25, 2017
836
Also Sorian was just a fluff talk and joking around. It has nothing do with being a townie or a scum, so you actually don't have any points at all. Nice try though.
 

Ty4on

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,953
Norway
What's your real argument here? You compared two incomparable situations and now you are trying to stir the conversation on something else. Matter of fact is, I answered people questions regarding my opinion, I didn't defend myself of accusation of being a scum unlike Terra. Thus it doesn't make me an hypocrite.
What did you want to get from Terra with that vote?
 

Ty4on

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,953
Norway
Read back my messages.

This is a huge scum tell in my opinion. I have got my eyes on you Terra.
Lean on scum, but that latter part makes it look like you wanna know more.
In any case I may be wrong or I may be right, only time and everybody's actions will tell. I will rest my case for now and study you all, tunnel vision can be an enemy in these dire times.
Except you don't wanna know more?
I feel like if you both were townies you would not try so hard, I feel like I should have been dismissed with a message or two and y'all would have moved on. And yet, here we are, arguing ad nauseam about Terra innocence... Hmm. Is it because you are too deep now that letting go will look more suspicious than keeping up the fight?

[...]

For now I am gonna try not to have too much tunnel vision about this two, I could be right but I could be wrong too but hey I am not gonna change my vote my guts feelings are screaming at me, so unless someone appears more suspicious it's gonna stay the same.
Now it seems like you don't wanna talk much more about it and instead focus elsewhere. First post this morning corroborates that.

Why do you start a discussion on Terra that you don't wanna continue? I understand not wanting to tunnel, but you were hostile at his first replies. It doesn't read like you actually wanna solve Terra.
 

Include

Member
Oct 25, 2017
836
Lean on scum, but that latter part makes it look like you wanna know more.

Except you don't wanna know more?

Now it seems like you don't wanna talk much more about it and instead focus elsewhere. First post this morning corroborates that.

Why do you start a discussion on Terra that you don't wanna continue? I understand not wanting to tunnel, but you were hostile at his first replies. It doesn't read like you actually wanna solve Terra.

My vote hasn't changed, repeating the same arguments over and over again is useless. I outlined everything yesterday and some more today to rac. I am not seeking to influence anybody, just outlining my points. If you are too lazy to read back it's not my problem and If you think I am a scum then so be it, vote me and let my death prove you otherwise.

You didn't answer my question
I did.
 

Sorian

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,964
Lotta people sucking up to Include already.

Rac wants us to call Terra's post a "slip", Sawneeks eager to oblige.

I skimmed a lot yesterday. What post is supposed to be a slip? The "last post of the day" thing? Who the fuck cares?

This has taken long enough Sorian, might aswell vote back. I need a reason (which you obviously don't have) or an unvote.

Vote: Sorian

The switched vote so quick is already weird enough but going back to this. You can keep saying my vote doesn't make you nervous but that is clearly a lie. No one reacts like this just to move conversation on. They react like this because they legitimately want an unvote.

------

I'm confused why anyone is giving Include brownie points. She seems to just want to put aggressive word vomit on the page. I'm already partially skipping her posts since they've all been long affairs filled with pomp and "theories" that have milliseconds put into them. I'm also not believing the first time player shtick either but that's usually an NAI lie.
 

DCPat

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,170
The switched vote so quick is already weird enough but going back to this. You can keep saying my vote doesn't make you nervous but that is clearly a lie. No one reacts like this just to move conversation on. They react like this because they legitimately want an unvote.

Then tell me where I have to be nervous for? You say it's random, other people said it's random. Nobody did something with it. Yet I go to sleep and wake up nervous all over sudden.
 

Girlofgotham

Member
Oct 25, 2017
859
Just had a read over the last few hours and Include actually seems to be escalating. Yesterday I saw these posts as enthusiastic newbie (which I something I couldn't pull off which is why I gave kudos) but this morning it seems to be (mostly) dominating much of the discussion. The Reply to All post gave a response to everyone who mentioned her and each one attempted to address that person's issues although this seems kind of paranoid. However, when handling questions as people put them to her, she seems to get a bit flustered, maybe even snappy. Is this a scumtell? I'm not sure yet.

Also I don't understand this jump to put Sawneeks in the Neutral camp. Maybe I've missed a post but in the big Reply to All, it just seemed like she was throwing questions at Sawneeks but later said "minus Saw, who I am accusing of being neutral". So this is a full-on accusation then?

The DCPat voting doesn't look good. I think Sorian's vote did make DC nervous and voting because he didn't get unvoted seems jumpy (a delayed jump albeit). I get that he has said "I wasn't nervous!" But voting someone because they didn't unvote you seems nervous. And the shift to Stanley looks even jumpier.

So right now, I'm going to keep looking at DCPat and Include. It's Day 1 and it's early so with little to go on, the twitchy people are the ones I'm going to watch out for.
 

gir

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,019
You didn't really. As you say, the rest actually were talking to you and so you wanted to respond to them, fair enough. But Sorian was throwing around joke comments and you felt the need to address them. Strikes me as somebody who was very interested, or worried, about the dialogue regarding them and wanting to control that dialogue.
 

DCPat

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,170
Fine, I'm nervous. Don't know for what but ok.

But I actually have no good reason to keep my vote on Stanley.

UNVOTE
 

Swamped

Member
Oct 25, 2017
916
I have to go to work, but I hope to come back early-ish so expect more posts this evening (EST)

What does that mean?

Only actual reason I have is that I don't like you stacked the vote. Meaning I now have 2 votes, without a good reason.

DCPat does seem pretty nervous about having only 2 votes on him. And it's still early in the day phase. In his subsequent posts he admits that he is in fact nervous. I'm seeing it as a nervous townie reaction for now.

DCPat you say you don't have a good reason to keep your vote on Stan. Who would you be comfortable voting for at this stage? Doesn't have to be your final answer.
 

cabot

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,775
Glasgow, Scotland
CURRENT VOTE TALLY


girlofgotham (1)
Sawneeks 106

Ty4on (1)

*Splinter 114

*Splinter (1)
melonrabbit 119

Lone_Prodigy (0)
StanleyPalmtree 156

DCPat (2)
Sorian 157
StanleyPalmtree 280

melonrabbit (1)
Verelios 177

Sorian (0)

Include 205
DCPat 279


Terraforce (1)
Include 219

Sawneeks (0)
Gorlak 255

StanleyPalmtree (0)
DCPat 282



FUN BUFFY FACT: Buffy used to be a show about snails. After a couple of writer rooms sessions, it finally came out of its shell.

DAY 1 ENDS:
bla_1515967200.png


12 votes to reach majority.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Swamped

Member
Oct 25, 2017
916
What does that mean?



Only actual reason I have is that I don't like you stacked the vote. Meaning I now have 2 votes, without a good reason.

Oh huh. I didn't read carefully enough. DCPat was replying to Stan in the above quote. Basically Stan was standing firm against accusations against DCPat. Then DCPat unvotes Stan. Trying to get him off your back?

Am curious to see what StanleyPalmtree thinks of the unvote.
 

Include

Member
Oct 25, 2017
836
So this is a full-on accusation then?

Indeed it's a full on accusation of her being a neutral, otherwise why didn't she accuse me of being one? She said I may be either a townie or a scum, but how come she didn't accuse me of being a neutral? Seems rather odd unless she knows who the neutral is in the first place and the only way she does is by being it. That's my opinion on the matter.

So far I feel like I have my scums and neutral suspicion on point. whether I am right or wrong remain to be seen.
 

Swamped

Member
Oct 25, 2017
916
*psst*

hey melon


say yes.

Seems eager to have votes on LP, even though LP hasn't really done anything of note (or maybe that's the reason why people should vote him?) Stan, would you vote for LP right now? Me personally, I would wait a little longer to see what he does.

Lotta people sucking up to Include already.

Really? Seems to me that while people admire her gungho-ness, they are actually pretty wary of her arguments. I may be the only one who actually town-read her, based on her first two posts (not so sure now). Who else was "sucking up" to Include?
 

Sorian

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,964
Then tell me where I have to be nervous for? You say it's random, other people said it's random. Nobody did something with it. Yet I go to sleep and wake up nervous all over sudden.

Does a random vote hold less weight? When we count them at day end is it only worth 3/5 of a normal vote?

Your argument holds no water.
 

Sorian

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,964
Indeed it's a full on accusation of her being a neutral, otherwise why didn't she accuse me of being one? She said I may be either a townie or a scum, but how come she didn't accuse me of being a neutral? Seems rather odd unless she knows who the neutral is in the first place and the only way she does is by being it. That's my opinion on the matter.

So far I feel like I have my scums and neutral suspicion on point. whether I am right or wrong remain to be seen.

You do know that most people use the word scum to talk about all non-town entities right?
 

Sorian

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,964
Also ignoring that there can be more than one neutral. As usual, milliseconds of thought in this argument.
 

DCPat

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,170
I can't keep an ungrounded vote on Stanley if I say myself that Sorian has to unvote me because he has no good reasons. I still think Stanley vote is suspicious, but not enough to keep my vote on him.

To answer your other question about who I would vote for if I had to vote now; I'd go for inactive people. They aren't helping in the usual D1 mess and it's what I would do as scum aswell. IMO in D1, the chance is bigger to hit scum in the inactive people than in the people who are contributing. In the few games I followed now it's always someone who stuck out on day 1 that is getting lynched.

But at this moment not everybody got a fair chance to participate so I give them some time.
 

Girlofgotham

Member
Oct 25, 2017
859
Indeed it's a full on accusation of her being a neutral, otherwise why didn't she accuse me of being one? She said I may be either a townie or a scum, but how come she didn't accuse me of being a neutral? Seems rather odd unless she knows who the neutral is in the first place and the only way she does is by being it. That's my opinion on the matter.

So far I feel like I have my scums and neutral suspicion on point. whether I am right or wrong remain to be seen.

Now this is only my second game so I'm still getting my head around the concept of Neutrals but surely they're the hardest to spot and there isn't always a guarantee that there is one, right? (Right? Can a vet correct my ignorance on this please?)

This is the first mention of a neutral from what I can see and it seems a bit of a leap.

Kind of surprised that anyone would try to go play Spot The Neutral on Day 1 when we're still all trying to work each other out. Surely that's why no one has yelled "neutral" at you yet? Sawneeks' post seemed more like she was saying that she was trying to gauge your alignment.

Who are your scum then?
 

Include

Member
Oct 25, 2017
836
Who are your scum then?

Well for the neutral thing I am awaiting my mentor opinion regarding the use of the term, since Sorian told me that any non-townie=scum. I will remove my accusation if my mentor tell me that the word neutral is used as scum too.

My scums haven't changed since the first day, I voted for Terra and the second one is Fran. This is the conclusion I came in yesterday, depending on the future progression of the game and if I didn't get murdered or voted out will define if I keep my stance or change my mind.
 

Sorian

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,964
Now this is only my second game so I'm still getting my head around the concept of Neutrals but surely they're the hardest to spot and there isn't always a guarantee that there is one, right? (Right? Can a vet correct my ignorance on this please?)

This is the first mention of a neutral from what I can see and it seems a bit of a leap.

Kind of surprised that anyone would try to go play Spot The Neutral on Day 1 when we're still all trying to work each other out. Surely that's why no one has yelled "neutral" at you yet? Sawneeks' post seemed more like she was saying that she was trying to gauge your alignment.

Who are your scum then?

Neutrals are never guaranteed but our community has a much higher concentration of them than a typical mafia community.

What do you want me to say? Off course it holds less weight.

lol Silly me, this makes counting votes near day end way harder then.
 

Sorian

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,964
Well for the neutral thing I am awaiting my mentor opinion regarding the use of the term, since Sorian told me that any non-townie=scum. I will remove my accusation if my mentor tell me that the word neutral is used as scum too.

My scums haven't changed since the first day, I voted for Terra and the second one is Fran. This is the conclusion I came in yesterday, depending on the future progression of the game and if I didn't get murdered or voted out will define if I keep my stance or change my mind.

All neutrals are scum but not all scum are neutrals. It's like squares and rectangles.

I still like neutrals
 

Sorian

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,964
Focusing on neutrals on day 1 is a really sketchy move by the way and for all the shit I'm giving Include, this is actually a scummy shift that I don't like from her.
 
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