Bullet Hell games- How do people pay attention to and dodge all bullets?

[SilentStorm]

As someone who sucks at them, i wonder how the hell some people just play these games like nothing, i know there are some differences betweeng games and some aren't so bad, but CAVE games make me die and die again!

Just wondering if it's just some people having better reflexes or really just playing some games a lot of times?

 

[Ravelle]

I can't deal with them, I get overwhelmed and just fly in to the flying death balls or bullets.

 

[duckroll]

Bullet hell is mostly a distraction. It's overwhelms your senses but the majority of bullets don't matter. The only thing that matters is the hitbox on your ship and moving it between the bullets immediately around you. It's just a matter of focus and what to look at on the screen.

 

[Jubilant Duck]

learn patterns, enter a sort-of detached flow state

it's a genre that you get good at by emotionally distancing yourself from it and turning your engagement into robotic process where you're focussed solely on your (1pixel by 1pixel) hit box. If you're having fun, you're probably going to lose.

It's an interesting zen exercise but it'll forever be a shame that bullet hell replaced the classic scrolling shooter. Gradius/Parodius/etc. you can still enjoy on an emotional level and beat.

Bullet hell is mostly a distraction. It's overwhelms your senses but the majority of bullets don't matter. The only thing that matters is the hitbox on your ship and moving it between the bullets immediately around you. It's just a matter of focus and what to look at on the screen.

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This is a succinct way to put it. The part that is visually appealing about the game - the bullet hell - is meant to be ignored completely.

It's the arcade shooter equivalent of playing open world games by staring solely at the minimap, ignoring all the gorgeous scenery and worldbuilding along the way.

 

[Advance.Wars.Sgt.]

I know for bullet hell games, it's actually encouraged you start on the lowest difficulty settings to get good. Yes, having good reflexes is important, but you won't be able to utilize those great reflexes without getting familiar with the enemy patterns of those types of games.

 

[Patitoloco]

I kinda just look at my ship or whatever and move in my little bubble.

 

[Frankie Williamson]

I found I kind of stop focusing on anything in particular and just get into it.

 

[eso76]

I found that I get better results if I focus on the ship and the immediate surroundings.
If I try to look at the whole picture I die.

 

[DPB]

I can't deal with them either, but as I understand it in Cave games the hitbox for your ship is a lot smaller than you'd think, the size of the cockpit rather than the entire ship.

 

[DoradoWinston]

taking a step back and just kinda taking in what is around your character/ship/whatever and just navigating that
95% of whats on screen will not even come into the equation outside of setting a pattern that you can see without putting your focus on it

 

[VariantX]

Bullet hell is mostly a distraction. It's overwhelms your senses but the majority of bullets don't matter. The only thing that matters is the hitbox on your ship and moving it between the bullets immediately around you. It's just a matter of focus and what to look at on the screen.

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Good to know. When games of all stripes and backgrounds go nuts on particle effects I either get headaches or I strip down visuals to the point where it's less demanding on my brain.

 

[Pargon]

A lot of it is learning the basic attack patterns, and focusing on the ship rather than the entire screen.
In a pattern like this, all I'm really focused on is the space available/around my ship:

Or if you look at this, you can see a path through the bullets:

But you wouldn't have to follow that path, because your goal is not to reach the top of the screen.
What you'd actually do is wait for the bullets to come to you, and shift right a little.

I say this as someone that only really enjoys vertical bullet-hell shmups casually.
I've generally favored the slower more methodical horizontal scrolling shooters like R-Type.

 

[Putosaure]

Yeah, just focus on your ship and get in the zone

 

[345]

it's a flow state thing. all you need to care about in the immediate milliseconds is your ship's hitbox, but you also need to kind of subconsciously perceive the upcoming patterns and not think too hard about them

 

[Fevaweva]

I've played Bullet Hell adjacent games like Furi and Undertale and enjoyed the GamePlay. What is a good babies first bullet hell for me to check out?

 

[Starlatine]

Some of them have a defensive mechanic that lets you mitigate bullets somehow (deflection, dodges, temporary invulnerability, you can shoot/absort the bullets/some bullets) so it's more like smoke and mirrors in the end

It's the arcade shooter equivalent of playing open world games by staring solely at the minimap, ignoring all the gorgeous scenery and worldbuilding along the way.

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This sounds pretty bad actually

 

[Polk]

Memorising patterns and knowing where your hitbox is.

2. 95% of the bullets don't matter and have nothing to do with you. At first it can look overwhelming but really there is only a small width of bullets that are your problem.

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Moreso it also applies to your ship. In most cases hitbox where you will die is often very tiny, not whole sprite/model.

 

[345]

I've played Bullet Hell adjacent games like Furi and Undertale and enjoyed the GamePlay. What is a good babies first bullet hell for me to check out?

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ikaruga. it's tough but broadly available and has a fun, simple core mechanic that will get you thinking about bullet patterns in general

 

[MikeProtagonist]

The thing about bullet hells is that they are actually super generous. With a classic shooter, you often get shots moving at you super quickly and you basically need to memorize where they turn up, which feels unfair. Bullet hells are super rewarding because it constantly feels like you should be dead, but you make it through. It's not about a bullet overlapping your ship, it's about that one pixel in the middle of the ship hitting the one pixel in the center of the bullet.

So in effect a bullet hell creates a pattern where you need to identify the gaps (or at least the lowest density of bullets) and move towards those, and to avoid actual walls of shots (like beams). There's usually also ways to clear out every bullet, for those "impossible" situations.

Also, most every bullet hell has a way to have or earn unlimited credits so if nothing else you can just credit feed through it all for the experience. There's also instant restarts, not using checkpoints like older games.

I'd recommend on modern systems, if you can find them in your region:
Dodonpachi Resurrection
Mushihimesama
Batsugun (the "first" bullet hell)
Progear (available within Capcom Arcade Stadium)

With the exception of Batsugun, these should only cost you like $10 for a straight port. There's also more ambitious ports like the M2 ShotTriggers, but those are like $40 and have a billion cool features that you don't need.

Ikaruga and Radiant Silvergun are also amazing games, but not as "pure" bullet hells with more puzzle elements. I do like them more, but they may not represent the genre.

 

[Kyora90]

buy fumos and memorize patterns

 

[345]

Ikaruga and Radiant Silvergun are also amazing games, but not as "pure" bullet hells with more puzzle elements. I do like them more, but they may not represent the genre.

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yeah this is very true. i suggested ikaruga because it's less twitch-based and probably easier for someone to parse if they're new to the genre. mushihimesama with a stick would be a good next step

 

[sn00zer]

I'm not crazy good or anything but two things.
1. Most vids you see online are someone playing on ultra difficulty final boss. You won't get there unless all you do is play shmups the rest of your life.
2. 95% of the bullets don't matter and have nothing to do with you. At first it can look overwhelming but really there is only a small width of bullets that are your problem.

A lot of people struggle with Returnal, but follow number 2 above and you'll realize that most of the craziness isn't something you need to deal with.

 

[sn00zer]

I've played Bullet Hell adjacent games like Furi and Undertale and enjoyed the GamePlay. What is a good babies first bullet hell for me to check out?

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Jamestown, it's designed to be a beginners shmup

 

[The Adder]

As someone who sucks at them, i wonder how the hell some people just play these games like nothing, i know there are some differences betweeng games and some aren't so bad, but CAVE games make me die and die again!

Just wondering if it's just some people having better reflexes or really just playing some games a lot of times?

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The trick is that your character isn't actually your character. Your character is a tiny little dot at the center of your character and all you need to worry about is getting that dot through the bullets. Beyond that, just patterns.

 

[Polk]

Jamestown, it's designed to be a beginners shmup

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This reminded me I've never bought + version.

 

[Letters]

No clue. In Noita my dumb ass just finds it impossible to dodge single enemy projectiles flying across the screen slowly in the first biome. 🤡

 

[PerrierChaud]

Recommending Ikaruga (or Radiant for that matter) as a first foray in the shmup or even bullet hell genre is a terrible idea lmaooooo

 

[Haklen]

I only ever finished Zeroranger and that was before an update added even more shit to the game, I tried it again and got wooped, and that's also still one of the easier/less complex games on the genre.

 

[Elodes]

If you're just starting out in the genre, I think Minishoot' Adventures would be a great place to start. It's a bullet hell Zeldalike with a lot of cute visual touches.

 

[Gelf]

The fact I have to focus on a tiny part of the screen to get anywhere ruins the appeal of them for me. I can't enjoy the entire spectacle because I'm focusing on a few pixels.

 

[Jaded Alyx]

I've played Bullet Hell adjacent games like Furi and Undertale and enjoyed the GamePlay. What is a good babies first bullet hell for me to check out?

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Mushihimesama
Dodonpachi Resurrection
Crimzon Clover World Explosion

Play them on the easiest setting

With the exception of Batsugun, these should only cost you like $10 for a straight port

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The latest - and superior - port of Batsugun on Steam is $8

 

[Jockel]

Echoing the sentiment that Ikaruga is a terrible choice for a beginner, it's super difficult and strict.
If you want to get into Cave (and if you're interested in bullet heck, those are by far the best) I'd suggest starting with Novice Modes from Dodonpachi Resurrection and Mushihimesama and then work your way up to Deathsmiles Arcade mode 1cc.
Staring at your ship is only helpful in slow and dense patterns, it's best to get used to look ahead of your ship and kind of intuit your ships exact position. Check out the electric underground on YouTube for lots of recommendations on what to play and how to play it.
Personally I prefer to not credit feed, and getting a bit further each time gives me a good sense of progression.

 

[Evilisk]

I'm still not that good at shmups, but I did go from "completely awful" to "can at least clear the easier Touhou games on Normal". My tips:

• As already mentioned, you don't focus on everything. It's not "everything" that's gonna make you lose a life, it'll be whatever hits your ship/character
• Something that helped me improve was focusing *just above* my character instead of focusing directly on their hitbox:
  
  
  
  
  
  Not my screenshot. But at first I would focus directly on the circle/hitbox. I wouldn't say "never do that". Sometime waves are really dense/slow so the extra precision IS necessary. But when the bullets are faster, you need to be looking higher up so you can react in time:
  
  
  
  
  
  Forgive the quick and dirty edit, the photoshopped area is bigger than I wanted. But that area above the character is where you should be looking in most situations.
  
  
• A big help for me was getting comfortable with aimed bullets. Basically, some enemies (and bosses) aim directly at you and if you dodge wrong in those situations, you'll fill the screen up with bullets and get cornered. You gotta get used to properly streaming/misdirecting bullets, like in the example below (if timestamps don't work, it should be at 04:27)
  
  
  View: https://youtu.be/EUzxJsgePnU?t=267
  
  Just ignore the red and purple bullets and pay attention to the green, yellow and blue bullets, which fire directly at the player. The player goes slowly in one direction, so that the dodged bullets don't fill up the screen. When the player gets close to the other wall, they make a sudden upwards movement. This movement creates an opening that the player can use to double back and repeat the process.
  
  While this is a very specific boss pattern, it's pretty common for normal enemies to fire this way, so knowing how these enemies behave, and how to deal with these types of bullets, helps a LOT. I no longer panic at these patterns, because I know I'm safe until I get close to a wall. I then only need to focus on how to double back.
  
  
• This depends on the game, but don't forget to use your bombs. In some games, bombs are a last resort. But in other games you're supposed to use them often.

My most important tip, though, is finding a shmup you actually enjoy playing. I basically bashed my head against the Touhou games for the longest time with little success. But I eventually found a different shmup series I enjoyed replaying and I naturally got better without feeling like I was working for it.

Yes, having good reflexes is important, but you won't be able to utilize those great reflexes without getting familiar with the enemy patterns of those types of games.

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This. The players clearing these games AREN'T reacting to these patterns for the first time.

This is not a genre where you're expected to clear everything blind/on the first playthrough.

 

[PepsimanVsJoe]

Like everything else, it all comes down to practice.
Also, as scary as it might sound, you're going to have a better chance of survival if you're proactive rather than reactive. For example, sitting at the bottom of the screen waiting for the bullets to come to you? Not the greatest idea. You'll be overwhelmed in seconds. Though enemies fill the screen with a lot of crud they still have patterns and behaviors. Learn to take them out quickly and/or position yourself so you can avoid their attacks with minimal stress will go a long way.

It's easier said than done of course, and I'll go even further by recommending everyone take a chance at the deep end. In other words, play Ketsui. Don't be afraid to experiment, get super aggressive, and dedicate a few minutes of your day learning its ins and outs. In less than 15 minutes of play, you'll experience a huge variety of bullet-hell scenarios. Furthermore, you'll have to spend an inordinate amount of time directly in the enemy's face just to survive.

Alternatively, start with games that look appealing to you and go from there. The bullet-hell genre is as wide as it is deep. Dodonpachi Resurrection has many MANY different ways to play, allowing players of all skill levels the right balance of challenge and entertainment. Indie titles like Graze Counter and Steel Vampire incorporate generous shield power-ups and even RPG mechanics. Astroport makes shmups with tons of difficulty settings. Start low and work your way up. Same goes with other Cave shmups like Mushihimesama and Deathsmiles. On the easier difficulties, you'll learn a lot by paying attention to what the enemy does (rather than focusing entirely on the bullets they fire).

 

[Kouriozan]

I learned to just don't focus on my character/ship (kinda like having a tunnel vision), so I can see and anticipate the upcoming attacks, that's how I got better at Touhou even being able to do some Lunatic. Before that I would just only see my character and its immediate surrounding so I'd get wrecked by more complex attacks.
One exception is those super slow patterns that need precise movements.

Of course that's only for the higher difficulty, easy/normal mode I guess it's fine to only focus on yourself.

 

[TLH]

"To the full extent of the jam", a shmup guide written by ProMeTheus, might be a helpful read on how to approach shoot em ups, especially the section on practicing and techniques (starting on page 22).

 

[Jockel]

In other words, play Ketsui.

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That's the way.

Oh I just remembered MechaRitz: Steel Rondo. It's on steam, it's cheap, got amazing music and a really forgiving difficulty level.

 

[MikeProtagonist]

I think guides are a bit counter-productive, it's like telling a fighting game newbie that they need to jump into practice mode for ten hours and then go online for a thousand matches.

Really, buy any of the mentioned bullet hells, play it on the lowest difficulty and credit feed all you want. If you then enjoy the chaos enough to get into it, then you can start worrying about guides.

Any Cave bullet hell is a hundred times more accessible than, say, R-Type or Gradius.

 

[Nox]

I have ADHD

 

[Starlatine]

Any Cave bullet hell is a hundred times more accessible than, say, R-Type or Gradius.

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i know opinions and all but this is just insane lmao
yeah regular shmups are still hard, but not "hundred times" harder than espgaluda, get real

 

[denpanosekai]

The fact I have to focus on a tiny part of the screen to get anywhere ruins the appeal of them for me. I can't enjoy the entire spectacle because I'm focusing on a few pixels.

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Highly relatable. As an alternative I watch others play once in a while.

I can only play shmups if I change my seating arrangement. No laid back comfy couch. I usually get much closer to the TV and sit or kneel on the floor.

I also gave up on 1cc these days (last was under defeat and deathsmiles lol) and just play for fun. I love how shmups look and sound!

 

[Pixelpusher]

Like many others said, you kinda just generally stare at your ship and get into a state of zen/flow. You don't really look away from your ship much, and use your peripheral vision as a slight heads up on incoming patterns. Also in many scenarios you can just move your ship a little bit rather an huge movements.

 

[CielYoshi]

i know opinions and all but this is just insane lmao
yeah regular shmups are still hard, but not "hundred times" harder than espgaluda, get real

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I don't know, I can still do decently in bullet hell games (even 1CC'in some!) but I could never get past the third stage in R-Type, for example. I wouldn't say that they're 100x harder, but as everyone else has said, in a Bullet Hell game you only really need to focus on a small area near your character as that's where the danger really is, while in "normal" shmups the density of bullets may be lower, but generally they're all aimed at you and on particular cases they're so fast and come from so far away that you need to focus on the whole screen at once to be able to dodge on command, which in a certain sense IS harder than a bullet hell.

 

[PepsimanVsJoe]

i know opinions and all but this is just insane lmao
yeah regular shmups are still hard, but not "hundred times" harder than espgaluda, get real

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To be fair, the word being used was "accessible".
Checkpoint shooters are brutal, especially for newbies to the shmup genre. It doesn't help that the earliest entries can have really unbalanced difficulty. Like, R-Type 1 has checkpoints that are functionally impossible if you don't have power-ups. Gradius 1 (particularly its US equivalent Nemesis) has a very punishing rank system that can turn the game into an honest-to-goodness bullet hell by stage 2. Then there are other games like Darius 2 where you can't miss a single power-up, let alone die.

ESP Galuda certainly gets nasty in the latter stages, and its sequel is an entire world of pain. With that said, anyone can jump in headfirst and get a grasp of the satisfying slowdown + bullet-cancelling loop, wreck a couple bosses, and see a good chunk of the game on their first attempt.

 

[Starlatine]

I don't know, I can still do decently in bullet hell games (even 1CC'in some!) but I could never get past the third stage in R-Type, for example. I wouldn't say that they're 100x harder, but as everyone else has said, in a Bullet Hell game you only really need to focus on a small area near your character as that's where the danger really is, while in "normal" shmups the density of bullets may be lower, but generally they're all aimed at you and on particular cases they're so fast and come from so far away that you need to focus on the whole screen at once to be able to dodge on command, which in a certain sense IS harder than a bullet hell.

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and ive beaten r-type and gradius as a kid and cant pass a single stage in bullet hell shrugs
theyre different types of skill that one can get accostumed to. calling one hundred times harder than the other is just silly

To be fair, the word being used was "accessible".

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accessible in what sense? if its avaliability it doesnt check out anyway. nobody makes shmups like the older gradius and r-type anymore while the bullet hells (specially the touhou ones) are easily avaliable online, for free sometimes even. if the idea bullet hells are more accessible because of extra continues or whatever, most shmups had easy cheat codes as well. just doesnt track, which is why i'm assuming the poster meant difficulty, specially because that phrase came after a paragraph discussing difficulty. i could be wrong, though, who knows.

 

[Devil]

Btw, what are some of the go to genre recommendations for those interested in trying it out on retro hardware? I have a Powkiddy RGB30 (retro handheld) and think its 1:1 screen ratio and portable nature might be a good place to jump in, but I have no clue what games I should start with.

 

[MikeProtagonist]

and ive beaten r-type and gradius as a kid and cant pass a single stage in bullet hell shrugs
theyre different types of skill that one can get accostumed to. calling one hundred times harder than the other is just silly

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Key word: accessible.

You need to memorize every encounter on every stage to get through those games. You basically need to 1cc them, because if you die you may find the game impossible just because you lose all your upgrades. And/or you get sent back to a checkpoint. And/or you have a very limited number of credits. If you spent hours doing that as a kid, congratulations. But the games are objectively more punishing than most games today.

In comparison anyone can go into a Cave bullet hell on easy and just mess around.

Btw, what are some of the go to genre recommendations for those interested in trying it out on retro hardware? I have a Powkiddy RGB30 (retro handheld) and think its 1:1 screen ratio and portable nature might be a good place to jump in, but I have no clue what games I should start with.

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Ironically I think using retro hardware for bullet hells is the wrong way to go. There were rarely any home ports of bullet hells, and if there were (like a few on Saturn) they are now crazy expensive. Even most PS2 and 360 ports are way up there now. You're much better off with the modern cheap ports for PS4, Switch or Steam.

 

[bixente]

Gunbird 2 is a good beginner shmup.

 

[PepsimanVsJoe]

Btw, what are some of the go to genre recommendations for those interested in trying it out on retro hardware? I have a Powkiddy RGB30 (retro handheld) and think its 1:1 screen ratio and portable nature might be a good place to jump in, but I have no clue what games I should start with.

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I'd start with Genesis games like MUSHA and Thunder Force IV.
SNES? R-Type III, Axelay, Space Megaforce, and the Parodius games for sure.
PC-Engine players can get enjoyment out of Blazing Lasers, Soldier Blade, Final Soldier, Star Parodier, Lords of Thunder, etc.
For arcade stuff, Darius Gaiden, Twin Cobra, and Batsugun* are good to start with.

*Batsugun has a special version that gives the player an easily rechargeable shield. Great for anyone who wants to get into arcade bullet hells.

Gunbird 2 is a good beginner shmup.

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First time I've laughed in awhile. Thanks for that.

(Though I guess it works if you start on the comically low difficulty settings and move up from there)

 

[Capra]

I'd still consider myself a novice (working on 1cc Mushi/DDP Resurrection) but eventually I just kinda intuit where my hitbox is and let my ship stay in the periphery of my vision while I focus on reading patterns as they come. Unless you're on Ultra or whatever the patterns are generally fair and all you really need to know is "don't be in the <insert bullet color here>".

I'd recommend on modern systems, if you can find them in your region:
Dodonpachi Resurrection
Mushihimesama
Batsugun (the "first" bullet hell)
Progear (available within Capcom Arcade Stadium)

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What's the situation with Arcade Stadium on Switch? I've been picking up shmups there for flipgrip support and to have them in one place but I know the input lag varies.