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A jury hands Bungie a landmark victory in a Destiny 2 cheating lawsuit
It may be the first jury to say cheats violate copyrights.
www.theverge.com
View: https://x.com/stephentotilo/status/1794156492784087319
www.theverge.com
View: https://x.com/stephentotilo/status/1794156492784087319
Great to see and great precedent being set. At the same I Imagine the hard part will be trying to go after other cheat makers based in other countries. It's still very good that this allows for precedent about US cheat makers getting fund guilty and shut down but hopefully it can be replicated internationally.
I'm not a lawyer or anything, but could this theoretically be used as precedent for companies to go after mods? From a total layman's perspective, a mod for a single player game and a cheat for an online game don't look that different on paper. I could see a company like Capcom making this argument.
MSI's AI-powered gaming monitor helps you cheat at 'League of Legends,' looks great doing it
MSI's MEG 321URX QD-OLED uses built-in AI to flag enemy positions for you.
Damn we've come a long way from putting tape on the middle of the monitor to no scope noobsMSI's AI-powered gaming monitor helps you cheat at 'League of Legends,' looks great doing it
MSI's MEG 321URX QD-OLED uses built-in AI to flag enemy positions for you.www.tomshardware.com
Hardware has always been a huge issue in creating some of these advantages from turbo controllers, to XIM's to, spoofing controller inputs for aim assist etc. AI is a new frontier in really kind of messing with gaming integrity.MSI's AI-powered gaming monitor helps you cheat at 'League of Legends,' looks great doing it
MSI's MEG 321URX QD-OLED uses built-in AI to flag enemy positions for you.
I'm not a Destiny 2 guy, what kind of mods would you use?
I was under the impression it's basically a multiplayer only experience on company-run servers. I'd think not allowing cheats in that context is a given
Based on their own words, the cheat company thought Bungie had it easy so far going after people who have no money to defend themselves and would rather settle, so they wanted to show Bungie what would happen if they were fought in court. lmao
The act of selling off the cheats is likely key here.
Just a little (hopefully simple) lesson on precedent in the US.
Jury decisions don't create precedent on it's own. Only when a final judgement is made is there precedent. But more importantly, only when it's reviewed by an appellate court is there strong precedent.
Before appellate review, it's only persuasive precedent. After appellate review it is mandatory precedent, but only in lower courts in the same jurisdiction.
So is this (legal) precedent? No, not yet anyway.
Jury decisions don't create precedent on it's own. Only when a final judgement is made is there precedent. But more importantly, only when it's reviewed by an appellate court is there strong precedent.
Before appellate review, it's only persuasive precedent. After appellate review it is mandatory precedent, but only in lower courts in the same jurisdiction.
So is this (legal) precedent? No, not yet anyway.
If that's the case, could modders with patreons be targeted?
Same. I'm terrible at fps on my own already. I don't need every Tom, Dick, and Harriet with aimbot/cheats making the experience worse. I have that handled well enough.
Keeping in mind, I don't know any specifics about this case. Copyright law is pretty complex.
Usually, there is a claim of a violation, and then the defense is typically either that no violation occurred or (more likely) that if there was a violation, it is protected by fair use.
Fair use has several considerations, one of which is the commercial nature of the use. If someone is not selling their mods, they might be more likely to be protected by fair use compared to those who are selling cheats. However, selling mods or cheats is not the sole factor and is not determinative one way or the other.
It is also important to note that fair use has several other factors, and the term "modding" and what mods are is very undefined. Modding could involve swapping a few colors or quite literally creating its own game. Therefore, one mod might be considered fair use, and another mod might not.
Usually, there is a claim of a violation, and then the defense is typically either that no violation occurred or (more likely) that if there was a violation, it is protected by fair use.
Fair use has several considerations, one of which is the commercial nature of the use. If someone is not selling their mods, they might be more likely to be protected by fair use compared to those who are selling cheats. However, selling mods or cheats is not the sole factor and is not determinative one way or the other.
It is also important to note that fair use has several other factors, and the term "modding" and what mods are is very undefined. Modding could involve swapping a few colors or quite literally creating its own game. Therefore, one mod might be considered fair use, and another mod might not.
It's not just about Destiny 2. That isn't the concern for mods here. It's starts to pave the way for future suits in the same realm.
I agree, this is very bad news. It's just a matter of time before Ubisoft sues the maker of single player mods and cheats because they are trying to push crappy microtransactions. Plus, Japanese companies seem to be heavily against mods of any sort even if they aren't microtransaction heavy games.
Are they also going to try to get cheat engine taken down since it can be used to make your own cheats? I can easily see publishers going after places that sell a one time or monthly subscription for access to cheats for a variety of single player game, which I got a lifetime membership to.
That box has honestly been open for a while. Mods have been in a precarious place for decades and have just had the luck of being ignored in most cases.
View: https://youtu.be/mo_AmQgSSqY?si=PM8jNadedxQmjx_x
This is funny completely independent of everything else, good lord, lol.
For those bringing up mods, there's two court cases worth reading into.
1) Midway Manufacturing Co. v. Artic International, Inc., in regards to physical modding of arcade machines/ In this case, one of the issues was a board that, when installed, simply sped up the speed at which 'Galaxian' was played. That was found to be a derivative work, even though it didn't modify any media assets.
2) Micro Star v. Formgen Inc. in regards to single player maps for 'Duke Nukem 3D,' in which the courts found the maps, while simply being data that does not include any assets from Duke, should be considered sequels.
"...and the stories told in the N/I MAP files are surely sequels, telling new (though somewhat repetitive) tales of Duke's fabulous adventures."
Now, while both of these were ultimately about cases where mods were being sold, it shouldn't be ignored what the courts considered to be derivative.
1) Midway Manufacturing Co. v. Artic International, Inc., in regards to physical modding of arcade machines/ In this case, one of the issues was a board that, when installed, simply sped up the speed at which 'Galaxian' was played. That was found to be a derivative work, even though it didn't modify any media assets.
2) Micro Star v. Formgen Inc. in regards to single player maps for 'Duke Nukem 3D,' in which the courts found the maps, while simply being data that does not include any assets from Duke, should be considered sequels.
"...and the stories told in the N/I MAP files are surely sequels, telling new (though somewhat repetitive) tales of Duke's fabulous adventures."
Now, while both of these were ultimately about cases where mods were being sold, it shouldn't be ignored what the courts considered to be derivative.
Yeah sure. But what did they actually argue? What issues are likely to be up for appeal? This article has none of the important info.
While I hate cheating, I also hate the DMCA. I'm more concerned about the potential for future DMCA claims against modders.
This article by Stephen Totillo is a week older, but it does have more info:
Bungie’s wildest Destiny 2 cheating lawsuit heads to trial this week
Most cheat-sellers have folded, but in this case, they sued Bungie right back
www.gamefile.news
This article by Stephen Totillo is a week older, but it does have more info:
Bungie’s wildest Destiny 2 cheating lawsuit heads to trial this week
Most cheat-sellers have folded, but in this case, they sued Bungie right back
That's better. Still reads like someone who doesn't fully understand the legal issues reporting it. And today's article doesn't even say what happened with the counterclaim. I'd be interested in hearing what they're actually appealing.
IANAL, but I read over the complaint filed by Bungie and.. it seems fine? I don't see anything being argued here that couldn't be argued already, and it's so focused on the cheating that I don't see it being useful in other contexts.