[Business Insider] Gen Z Gender Gap: Young Men and Women Don't Agree on Politics

[Galactic Specter]

This is an interesting article that breaks down the political separation between genders that's growing within young people.

https://www.businessinsider.com/gen-z-gender-gap-young-men-women-dont-agree-politics-2024-1#

Here are some of the points but I recommend reading the full article for yourself to understand the full context

Young women are becoming more liberal

But while women were rallying together, many Gen Z men began to feel like society was turning against them. As recently as 2019, less than one-third of young men said that they faced discrimination, according to Pew, but today, close to half of young men believe they face at least some discrimination. In a 2020 survey by the research organization PRRI, half of men agreed with the statement: "These days society seems to punish men just for acting like men."

It increasingly feels like Gen Z men and women are living on different planets, each guided by the belief that they are navigating uniquely hostile terrain — and understanding why is crucial to bridging the gap.

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Men shift to the right

As women's political priorities have solidified, young men's priorities have melted into mush. Surveys consistently show that young men are far less likely than women to say any particular issue is personally important to them. A survey we conducted last year found that young women expressed statistically significant greater concern for 11 out of 15 different issues, including drug addiction, crime, climate change, and gun violence. There was not a single issue that young men cared about significantly more than young women.

Young men are also unhappy. For a growing number, feminism has less to do with promoting gender equality and more to do with simply attacking men. A 2022 survey by the Southern Poverty Law Center found that 46% of Democratic men under 50 agreed that feminism has done more harm than good — even more Republican men agreed. In our recent poll, roughly one in four male Gen Zers said they have experienced more gender discrimination than older men. And less than half of Gen Z men identified as feminists, with only half saying they support the #MeToo movement, compared to 72% of women.

One young man we interviewed said he didn't pay much attention to #MeToo: "It just seemed like a bit of buzz going on around celebrities, and awful things are happening in the world all the time. If I did ponder, it would bring me down and so I just choose to not even pay attention." Another said #MeToo was just something he picked up from "a woman's study class" in college but not anything that he thinks much about.

The lack of interest could be because Gen Z men have their own issues. Richard Reeves, the founder of the American Institute for Boys and Men, has meticulously documented the challenges facing young men in America: They are struggling more in school, are less likely than women to go to and graduate from college, have fewer close friends than previous generations, and are four times as likely to commit suicide than women. Reeves argues that this state of affairs requires that we hold two seemingly contradictory ideas at once: Men at the highest rungs of the economic ladder are still advantaged by a system that perpetuates gender inequality, while men on the lower rungs of society face unique challenges because they are men.

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[Sirhc]

Not surprising with the explosive growth of toxic online male personalities the last few years...but disappointing and terrifying.

 

[Ashodin]

In a 2020 survey by the research organization PRRI, half of men agreed with the statement: "These days society seems to punish men just for acting like men."

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This is code for "Because I do not get what I want, I am being punished." whether that be not being able to treat women as commodities, or be it that they do not get free passes due to being men for other things.

 

[Jubilant Duck]

That South Korea chart definitely tracks from what I've read.

 

[Rune Walsh]

Spending more time online instead of playing with friends in your neighborhood probably doesn't help. I'm certain there's a large number of factors but social media is a huge generational game changer in behavior.

As also stated, not being able to constantly punch down without retaliation is apparently making it hard to be a guy. If that's someone's reasoning for being conservative, they can cry me a river.

 

[Rosebud]

This is code for "Because I do not get what I want, I am being punished." whether that be not being able to treat women as commodities, or be it that they do not get free passes due to being men for other things.

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When people say something like that they never give an answer of what is to act like a man.

 

[Mudcrab]

The South Korea track is kinda terrifying

 

[Ashodin]

When people say something like that they never give an answer of what is to act like a man.

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Such an open ended question is left for interpretation, which serves the question to respond "for me, personally, yes, I do think this is the case." which is why you see so much disparity.

 

[massoluk]

Not surprised at all at the South Korea chart. What happened when Me Too came to South Korea was batshit insanity.

 

[andymcc]

Yeah, boys and young men "looks maxing" and "chin mewing" while listening to shitheads like Andrew Tate and Sneako are probably still going to say that their nose-to-eye ratio is off or whatever and blame women for not wanting to date them rather than recognizing there is an issue with their belief systems and personality.

 

[Temascos]

How the hell can this be turned around? I'm pretty sure there's plenty of positive male role models out there who are progressively leaning, but yet somehow the majority go for the fuckwits who act like ogres.

 

[Jubilant Duck]

When people say something like that they never give an answer of what is to act like a man.

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The question doesn't ask for the answer, the answer is just a "do you agree with" statement.

It's useful for trend identification but not granular explanation.

How the hell can this be turned around? I'm pretty sure there's plenty of positive male role models out there who are progressively leaning, but yet somehow the majority go for the fuckwits who act like ogres.

Click to shrink...

It's a complicated issue with multiple factors. Influence from rightwing fuckwits is certainly one. Societal inertia another.

But something seen in left leaning spaces is that discussing the need for positive male role models for men, for young boys to arrive at an identity that is masculine but healthy, can become a de facto taboo. People get suspicious, as because men are the oppressive gender, there's an unspoken assumption/feeling/vibe that masculinity itself cannot be rehabilitated, or at the very least no-one wants to be seen associated with doing that work.

Thus, the left give up men to the right.

I've seen some really good work about positive masculinity but it's kinda all aimed at former prisoners, coming to terms with being a man but not needing to constantly be in fight/flight mode, etc. And it's great and important work but it's also work that needs to given to young boys long before they get to that stage.

 

[doops.]

When people say something like that they never give an answer of what is to act like a man.

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Was gonna say the same—what is their definition of 'acting like a man' exactly?

 

[Canyon]

This is code for "Because I do not get what I want, I am being punished." whether that be not being able to treat women as commodities, or be it that they do not get free passes due to being men for other things.

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That's a pretty loaded statement from that survey lol.

 

[MasterYoshi]

Every algorithm pushing extreme right content is definitely not helping, in a world that is chronically online scrolling

 

[AvianAviator]

This is code for "Because I do not get what I want, I am being punished." whether that be not being able to treat women as commodities, or be it that they do not get free passes due to being men for other things.

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Sometimes it is that simple, but this shit has also influenced so many impressionable young men with otherwise good influences in their lives that I worry we may be simplifying this.

 

[B-Dubs]

How the hell can this be turned around? I'm pretty sure there's plenty of positive male role models out there who are progressively leaning, but yet somehow the majority go for the fuckwits who act like ogres.

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Social media algorithms push them to these guys by design.

 

[Arkanim94]

Well, that tracks.

 

[andymoogle]

Unfortunately not surprising considering that absolutely nothing has been done by social media companies in the past 10+ years to get rid of fascists and other toxic men on their platforms.

In Sweden 25% of all men vote for the fascist party. And that's in all age brackets.

 

[Ashodin]

Sometimes it is that simple, but this shit has also influenced so many impressionable young men with otherwise good influences in their lives that I worry we may be simplifying this.

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That's the thing. Social media algorithms and general sentiment plus young men not having support systems and encouraged to "go it alone" on mental health among other things continues to drive this.

 

[JigglesBunny]

- Astronomical rise in alt-right ideology being pushed on young men designed around brainwashing them to be abusive, sexist, racist, homophobic, transphobic "alpha" types.
- Young women watch on in horror as their rights to healthcare and bodily autonomy are systematically stripped away from them.

Perfect storm, really. The right's betting on those brainwashed young men showing up and showing out for them and abusing women into literal and figurative submission to ensure the white, straight, cis-gendered patriarchy remains in power and the strongest resistance - as history has proven - will come from young women, black voters (black women especially) and the men willing to boldly oppose this shit rather than resting on their laurels and opting for moderate and/or non-confrontational positions.

 

[Mirk]

My son is 9 and we moved to small town two years ago. The amount of shit he hears and asks me about really bothers me. I get being a kid and all but the shit talk about crying being a baby when getting hurt or girls can't do what boys do etc. sucks and trying to correct it seems impossible at times. Also just casual racism all the damn time.

 

[Mister Ursine]

How the hell can this be turned around? I'm pretty sure there's plenty of positive male role models out there who are progressively leaning, but yet somehow the majority go for the fuckwits who act like ogres.

Click to shrink...

People are attracted to the easy option. Usually those progressive leaning role models ask their viewers to do some level of introspection, while the chuds say that "Everyone else is the problem, you should feel strong and powerful." Tale as old as time, except now social media is the ultimate delivery mechanism. Sad to see.

It hasmade the dating field worse than usual. Had countless stories from straight women friends about bad dates where the guy's shitty politics slipped out. Their brains get so melted by these "culture critics" that they lack any self-awareness. Saying weird shit like "I expect my woman to do blah blah blah..." ON A FIRST DATE.

 

[.exe]

Why does nobody like me, they wonder as they start up another episode of JRE to fill the void.

 

[FirstTwoPages]

Every time I mention something like this I get shouted down (which is kind of ironic considering what I am about to say), but in my experience when men say something insensitive or not well thought out, they get absolutely eviscerated and made to feel a fool. Like because they were wrong on something they're a bad person and deserve to feel bad. There's absolutely zero space to be wrong about something, the moment you say something wrong, everything else you say can't be trusted. And in my experience, people (men specifically) react poorly to that and unfortunately usually double down.

Should they do that? No probably not, but it is happening. I don't have the answers but we need to foster a space for (specifically young) men to figure stuff out without being called a fucking idiot to their face (even tho they often are).

 

[KNZFive]

The South Korea track is kinda terrifying

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It lines up perfectly with GamerGate/the rise of the alt right in 2015/2016. I guess the online anti-feminist radicalization spread to South Korea and it festered into something way more pervasive and wide spread.

 

[Enduin]

I thought things in the US would coincide a bit more with GamerGate, but trend looks to have started in the late 00s and not mid 10s. Which roughly coincides with the massive rise of social media platforms like Youtube and Facebook which gave outlets for so many chuds. What happened in SK in '15/16 that caused such a drastic reversal towards the right? Was GG big over there too, or some other event? I'm honestly surprised the US is as gradual as it is and actually still barely above the liberal side overall. Mens social media is a fucking travesty, so I would have thought it would be a more dramatic drop and had crossed over deep into the Con side.

 

[Galactic Specter]

How the hell can this be turned around? I'm pretty sure there's plenty of positive male role models out there who are progressively leaning, but yet somehow the majority go for the fuckwits who act like ogres.

Click to shrink...

We could start with reaching out to young men instead of leaving them to rot and wallow in these online spaces that feed on their bitterness in a cycle of hate. Whenever the topic of young men not doing so good is brought up, there's a lot of vitriol and victim blaming thrown around at those men effected because people are hardwired to never take men's issues seriously.

 

[andymcc]

Every time I mention something like this I get shouted down (which is kind of ironic considering what I am about to say), but in my experience when men say something insensitive or not well thought out, they get absolutely eviscerated and made to feel a fool. Like because they were wrong on something they're a bad person and deserve to feel bad. There's absolutely zero space to be wrong about something, the moment you say something wrong, everything else you say can't be trusted. And in my experience, people (men specifically) react poorly to that and unfortunately usually double down.

Should they do that? No probably not, but it is happening. I don't have the answers but we need to foster a space for (specifically young) men to figure stuff out without being called a fucking idiot to their face (even tho they often are).

Click to shrink...

My SO's little brother (21-ish) is terrified of talking to women because he's afraid he's going to be filmed and be cringe-bait for the rest of his life.

 

[Lumination]

The shit thing about this whole thing is that men are mistreated, patriarchy or not. We're forced to never have emotions, man up, etc. etc. But instead of actually talking about these issues at all (the needle has barely moved in the last decade), we're letting Tate and whatever other garbage co-opt the very real feelings of societal abuse.

The conversation should be about how men and women both are saddled with millenia of warped expectations. It doesn't have to be a race of who has it worse. It doesn't have to be finger pointing about how men want to control women, or how women treat short men, or whatever else. We've all been fucked and the sooner we can recognize that, the better.

 

[Hollywood Duo]

This is code for "Because I do not get what I want, I am being punished." whether that be not being able to treat women as commodities, or be it that they do not get free passes due to being men for other things.

Click to shrink...

The key here I think is they were all raised on toxic masculinity. It's hard to break free of that without some serious self reflection. I'm more hopeful for my sons generation but that's awhile away.

 

[Lobster Roll]

Social media algorithms push them to these guys by design.

Click to shrink...

- Astronomical rise in alt-right ideology being pushed on young men designed around brainwashing them to be abusive, sexist, racist, homophobic, transphobic "alpha" types.
- Young women watch on in horror as their rights to healthcare and bodily autonomy are systematically stripped away from them.

Perfect storm, really. The right's betting on those brainwashed young men showing up and showing out for them and abusing women into literal and figurative submission to ensure the white, straight, cis-gendered patriarchy remains in power and the strongest resistance - as history has proven - will come from young women, black voters (black women especially) and the men willing to boldly oppose this shit rather than resting on their laurels and opting for moderate and/or non-confrontational positions.

Click to shrink...

All of this. Men, especially young ones, have been extremely easy to dissect and appealed to by these toxic, online sources that exploit their insecurities and molds them into alt-right idiots with little-to-no effort.

 

[Wadatah]

This sucks, man. I always thought that young men were increasingly reactionary because of the Andrew Tates of the world, but it blows to have data backing that up.

 

[B-Dubs]

The shit thing about this whole thing is that men are mistreated, patriarchy or not. We're forced to never have emotions, man up, etc. etc. But instead of actually talking about these issues at all (the needle has barely moved in the last decade), we're letting Tate and whatever other garbage co-opt the very real feelings of societal abuse.

The conversation should be about how men and women both are saddled with millenia of warped expectations. It doesn't have to be a race of who has it worse. It doesn't have to be finger pointing about how men want to control women, or how women treat short men, or whatever else. We've all been fucked and the sooner we can recognize that, the better.

Click to shrink...

Honestly, it's also this. One of the things people don't seem to get is that toxic masculinity hurts everyone.

 

[Arkanim94]

How the hell can this be turned around? I'm pretty sure there's plenty of positive male role models out there who are progressively leaning, but yet somehow the majority go for the fuckwits who act like ogres.

Click to shrink...

Actually giving young men "holding space" where they can sort their emotions without fear to be judged, but with the expectation to be better.
Because right now it feels like the are present with online spaces that are on the front hostile to them and spaces that are on the front welcoming.
The difficult part is that I don't think that those holding spaces can be managed online, while radicalization pipeline are up and running on the web.

 

[Silverhand]

The South Korea track is kinda terrifying

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Watched a thing recently about S Korean society and it's gender issues and hierarchy issues etc. "Worst than Japan and China". was a quote.

 

[duxstar]

Has anyone actually like tried to be a role model ? Like I tried after surviving cancer to coach football in my community thinking that maybe I can give back and help children with a game I enjoy greatly.

It was terrible , parents questioning why a single guy would be doing this, administrative people screaming an inch from my face , being told you have no clue what your talking about , parents lying behind your back about things you did or didn't say, no support other than here's some 6 year Olds go teach them.

I still tried to instill integrity into it and teach them the game but when I left the awards ceremony (where there was more drama) it all just felt hollow? I've tried twice now and no one has your back and I think like I just wanted to help teach these kids and it was exhausting

 

[FirstTwoPages]

My SO's little brother (21-ish) is terrified of talking to women because he's afraid he's going to be filmed and be cringe-bait for the rest of his life.

Click to shrink...

Oh my gosh, I never considered that. I'm glad I'm married now (and old). I was terrified enough trying to date back then, adding that on top would be rough. And I definitely said sexist jokes back then that I regret immensely, so if they were filmed oof.

 

[Min]

How the hell can this be turned around? I'm pretty sure there's plenty of positive male role models out there who are progressively leaning, but yet somehow the majority go for the fuckwits who act like ogres.

Click to shrink...

Role models aren't found on a twitch stream. They're found in community and in personal one-on-one's.

 

[Vipershark]

Every time I mention something like this I get shouted down (which is kind of ironic considering what I am about to say), but in my experience when men say something insensitive or not well thought out, they get absolutely eviscerated and made to feel a fool. Like because they were wrong on something they're a bad person and deserve to feel bad. There's absolutely zero space to be wrong about something, the moment you say something wrong, everything else you say can't be trusted. And in my experience, people (men specifically) react poorly to that and unfortunately usually double down.

Should they do that? No probably not, but it is happening. I don't have the answers but we need to foster a space for (specifically young) men to figure stuff out without being called a fucking idiot to their face (even tho they often are).

Click to shrink...

This post reminds me of that other thread about the "Incel-to-trans pipeline".
In a world that seems to demand perfection and being "on" all the time, there's no place for people to be imperfect, or... themselves, and it leads to a lot of frustrated people that feel like they don't fit in anywhere.
It's kind of a 'two sides of the same coin' type of thing, though this seems to be the bad route.

I guess the root cause is... I dunno, "the patriarchy" in general?

 

[Galactic Specter]

My SO's little brother (21-ish) is terrified of talking to women because he's afraid he's going to be filmed and be cringe-bait for the rest of his life.

Click to shrink...

That's a common fear. It's why men have been approaching way less in public and prefer the barrier of online dating. Nobody wants to come across like a creep and make someone feel uncomfortable.

 

[BrucCLea13k87]

Young men need to have an outlet in some form. For most, it should be a physical outlet. It's just how they're wired. Men really need mentors. That may be in the form of teachers, coaches, instructors, etc. Sadly, because of these scenarios it is likely that there will be fewer mentors.

Young men need a safe space to be goofy together, whether it be on a sports team, D&D club or whatever. There they can say and do some dumb stuff and get it out of their system. Be physical. There they are challenged socially and become more confident.

If they are repressed then they immediately flock to the Shapiros and Tates that prey on them by saying that they should be able to say certain things. It molds their ideology in a toxic way. Then they fall down a rabbit hole of which there is no return.

In reality the solution is simple but reaching it is more complicated.

 

[Ouroboros]

Men need to wise the fuck up.

 

[kazinova]

My pet theory is that the algorithms that are driving young men to the right are identical to the ones driving women to the left. It's content being generated that triggers strong emotions that explain how your problems are not your fault but part of a vast conspiracy against you.

It just so happens that one of those perspectives is founded in more reality than the other. So the perceived output is that it pushes these groups in two different directions but in reality it's pushing them into the same emotion there's just drastically different underlying conditions for the same feeling.

(I have to add the caveat that I'm not okaying any of that, just explaining it's origin in my framing because it's helpful in pushing back against it. I have a Gen Z buddy that I'm working on changing his view of the world from right-wing conspiracy-ville to functioning member of society and getting into his mindset helps me communicate to him)

 

[Tygre]

"When someone is accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression."

 

[IMCaprica]

Every time I mention something like this I get shouted down (which is kind of ironic considering what I am about to say), but in my experience when men say something insensitive or not well thought out, they get absolutely eviscerated and made to feel a fool. Like because they were wrong on something they're a bad person and deserve to feel bad. There's absolutely zero space to be wrong about something, the moment you say something wrong, everything else you say can't be trusted. And in my experience, people (men specifically) react poorly to that and unfortunately usually double down.

Should they do that? No probably not, but it is happening. I don't have the answers but we need to foster a space for (specifically young) men to figure stuff out without being called a fucking idiot to their face (even tho they often are).

Click to shrink...

They get eviscerated by whom?

 

[Digital Dinosaur]

Every time I mention something like this I get shouted down (which is kind of ironic considering what I am about to say), but in my experience when men say something insensitive or not well thought out, they get absolutely eviscerated and made to feel a fool. Like because they were wrong on something they're a bad person and deserve to feel bad. There's absolutely zero space to be wrong about something, the moment you say something wrong, everything else you say can't be trusted. And in my experience, people (men specifically) react poorly to that and unfortunately usually double down.

Should they do that? No probably not, but it is happening. I don't have the answers but we need to foster a space for (specifically young) men to figure stuff out without being called a fucking idiot to their face (even tho they often are).

Click to shrink...

There is truth here and it's part of why the problem seems so intractable. A lot of people who aren't the worst actors are going to get blasted as collateral damage, and that only incentivizes them to drift towards those pushing toxic ideas. It is why there's such a huge industry taking advantage of disaffected men.

As alluded to by some other posts we are in an environment that makes all of this worse due to the internet and social media trends. Simply the idea of "cringe" itself and the ferocious drive to film and roast everyone you see online in order to get attention, is incredibly damaging.

 

[Conkersbadfurday]

Every time I mention something like this I get shouted down (which is kind of ironic considering what I am about to say), but in my experience when men say something insensitive or not well thought out, they get absolutely eviscerated and made to feel a fool. Like because they were wrong on something they're a bad person and deserve to feel bad. There's absolutely zero space to be wrong about something, the moment you say something wrong, everything else you say can't be trusted. And in my experience, people (men specifically) react poorly to that and unfortunately usually double down.

Should they do that? No probably not, but it is happening. I don't have the answers but we need to foster a space for (specifically young) men to figure stuff out without being called a fucking idiot to their face (even tho they often are).

Click to shrink...

I feel like this has something to do with it. It's really become part of "modern social media culture" in a way. Everyone is looking to jump down on someone, and mistakes become explosive pretty fast, it seems. Someone fucks up and says "sorry" and it's not good enough or they don't say "sorry" at all, so they're worse. Like, I think it's more than just a problem with men, but I do think the way social media handles *EVERYTHING* doesn't help.

I hate that I now live in a world where my worst day might be documented by a stranger and shared with millions of people who will then mock me for it.

 

[Tathanen]

On the plus side, with the disturbing exception of Korea, the rise in women is greater than the dip in men. Women save us.

 

[BrucCLea13k87]

They get eviscerate by whom?

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It's more about the fear of getting eviscerated, whether it's rightly founded or not. The fear that keeps them from doing anything and then because of that isolation running in the arms of far-right douchebags that manipulate them. Young men keep to themselves and it destroys them. They need mentors and real-world role models.