• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
  • We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.

Kenzodielocke

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,853
www.businessinsider.com

Google's ambitious push into gaming is floundering, and it's due largely to too few games on its Stadia platform — here's why developers have held back

Google's first major push into gaming is floundering, and it's largely due to a lack of games. Developers told us Google didn't offer enough money.


Google says another 120 games are scheduled to hit Stadia this year, including some big upcoming blockbusters like "DOOM Eternal" and "Cyberpunk 2077."

But where are the dozens of indie hits that helped bolster the libraries of Sony's PlayStation 4, Microsoft's Xbox One, and Nintendo's Switch? Where are the games like "Bloodstained," "Shovel Knight," "Dead Cells," and "Untitled Goose Game" — the blockbuster indie games that sell millions of copies and inspire sequels?

These games have become critical to the success of any new game platform, yet, of the 28 games currently available on Stadia, just four fall into the indie category.

"We were approached by the Stadia team," one prominent indie developer told me. "Usually with that kind of thing, they lead with some kind of offer that would give you an incentive to go with them." But the incentive "was kind of non-existent," they said. "That's the short of it."

It's a statement we heard echoed by several prominent indie developers and two publishing executives we spoke with for this piece.

"It's that there isn't enough money there," one of the publishing executives we spoke with said. The offer was apparently "so low that it wasn't even part of the conversation."
The "incentive" isn't solely financial, but it's the main part of the equation.

"When we're looking at these types of deals," another prominent indie developer said, "We're looking at 'Is this enough money where we have the resources to make what we want, or is this an exclusivity deal that gives us security?'" they said.

Each of the people we spoke with, who asked to be granted anonymity due to ongoing employment in the video game industry, echoed this sentiment — and said Google simply wasn't offering enough money, in addition to several other concerns.

"There are platforms you want to be on because they have an audience and you want to reach that audience," one developer said. "That's what Steam is, or that's what [Nintendo] Switch is. They have big groups on their platforms, and you want to be with those groups so they can play your games."

But Stadia doesn't have a large audience to reach — at least not yet — so Google must create that incentive for developers. And the people we spoke with said, outside of money, there wasn't much reason to put their games on Stadia.

"If you could see yourself getting into a long term relationship with Google?" one developer said. "But with Google's history, I don't even know if they're working on Stadia in a year. That wouldn't be something crazy that Google does. It's within their track record."

This concern — that Google might just give up on Stadia at some point and kill the service, as it has done with so many other services over the years — was repeatedly brought up, unprompted, by every person we spoke with for this piece.
 

liquidtmd

Avenger
Oct 28, 2017
6,134
Pretty much

You want to launch something and make it a success, you gotta lay down solid incentives and open the wallet before you hit the snowball adoption rate
 

Deleted member 10737

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
49,774
This concern — that Google might just give up on Stadia at some point and kill the service, as it has done with so many other services over the years — was repeatedly brought up, unprompted, by every person we spoke with for this piece.
sounds like a very valid concern
 

digitalrelic

Weight Loss Champion 2018: Biggest Change
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,124
In other words, Google isn't interested in investing the proper capital into their project and Stadia will be gone in a few years after dying a slow and painful death.
 

Iron Eddie

Banned
Nov 25, 2019
9,812
They should give developers 30% from each sale just like most platforms including Steam does.
 

criteriondog

I like the chili style
Member
Oct 26, 2017
11,173
"If you could see yourself getting into a long term relationship with Google?" one developer said. "But with Google's history, I don't even know if they're working on Stadia in a year. That wouldn't be something crazy that Google does. It's within their track record."

Sounds like devs/pubs don't have faith in Google.

If Stadia has a rough 2020, it's going to have an even worse 2021 especially after the new console launches.

Missing big games from EA and Activision are seriously going to hurt them. As well as missing the f2p gaming market. Not getting titles like Call of Duty, FIFA, Fortnite, and really any big third party games, etc are quite massive misses. Not a single game was announced for Stadia at The Game Awards, and the recent batch of Stadia titles have been smaller indie games.
 

Windu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,631
Gotta spend money to make money Google. Certainly not a promising start. But tbh I feel like their goal with Stadia is just to get people using YouTube as a game streaming platform against Twitch.
 

ILikeFeet

DF Deet Master
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
61,987
This concern — that Google might just give up on Stadia at some point and kill the service, as it has done with so many other services over the years — was repeatedly brought up, unprompted, by every person we spoke with for this piece.

methinks google has an image problem they should tackle
 

digitalrelic

Weight Loss Champion 2018: Biggest Change
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,124
Gotta spend money to make money Google. Certainly not a promising start. But tbh I feel like their goal with Stadia is just to get people using YouTube as a game streaming platform against Twitch.
If that's their goal then that's been a failure on all counts as well.
 

Deleted member 15476

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,268
The lukewarm launch impressions didn't help either. The project obviously needed more work, but I guess they wanted to get a head start on next gen platforms.
 

Iron Eddie

Banned
Nov 25, 2019
9,812

criteriondog

I like the chili style
Member
Oct 26, 2017
11,173
Not only is the lack of upcoming games an issue or lack of publisher support, but there's also datacaps for a lot of the market, latency issues, possible network glitches and more that you won't suffer from, if you bought a console.

Oh and the whole "4K 60fps" thing, with some games running at worse than Xbox One X version.

And games being behind on patches, or delayed updates (BL3 got patched about two weeks ago).

The dying multiplayer population isn't a good sign either.

Lacking features promised in it's announcement at launch and slowly crawling out basic functionality isn't helping either.
 

Scottoest

Member
Feb 4, 2020
11,364
Investments Google should have made, if they were serious:

- Buying at least a few studios back in 2017-2018.
- Waiving licencing fee for games for a couple of years, to encourage a wide variety of ports.
- An army of people working with any "partner" publishers, to make sure their games looked and ran as well as they possible could on Stadia's hardware - not sub-One X quality in most cases.
- Running the service as a free open beta, until the major features and "Base" tier were ready to go.
 

zedox

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,215
Google is in the same position that Windows Phone was...chicken and egg. Only part that helps them is that streaming hasn't taken off yet.
 

Deleted member 49535

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 10, 2018
2,825
Google is probably used to paying almost nothing to Youtube content creators and think they can do the same with Stadia.
 

Pryme

Member
Aug 23, 2018
8,164
Biggest problem for Google is the impending competition.
GeForce Now looks to be a better service

xCloud is coming this year

PSNow is primed for a major revamp And will expand significantly.

All their competitors have avenues for offline play. Either on PC or console. Google's the odd one out.
 

Dreamboum

Member
Oct 28, 2017
22,869
Google is a laughably inept company. No one would trust a company this poorly managed and with no vision for anything
 

Dekuman

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,026
Im fine with the fact that Google isn''t just bankrolling this with an open wallet and distorting the economics of game streaming.
The problem with big entrants has always been the massive distortions to the economics of game development but once that tap is turned off because of a strategy change, the people left holding the bag are the publishers and developers.

The struggles of this generation with regards to development timelines, cost/crunch etc is largely because of the overspending and subsidies to HD development during the 360/PS3 era and it's increasingly became unsustainable when you ramp that up again for the current gen of hardware platforms.

One interesting thing is it seems next gen may be more about targeting games to a range of specs while offering power users a top line machine if Lockhart is real. That would allow devs to keep on business as usual rather than having to target their games to 10 or 12 TF of hardware power or risk them 'not selling'.
 

shimon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,582
If Google doesn't care enough for its own product, why would anyone else care?
 

Alien Bob

Member
Nov 25, 2017
2,471
They really should have put people in charge who know how the games industry works.

Just one or two people with a bit of knowledge of the business.
 

Hyperfludd

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,210
I imagine it has to be stuff like this, I just redeemed a buddy pass yesterday for the tier with free games and theres like only 5 or something after all this time?
 

StarStorm

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
7,602
Userbase isn't big on Stadia, so developers aren't porting their games there without some incentives. I think everyone was worried about Stadia's longevity. It to be killed off after a few years going by Google's track record.
Their incentive to indie developers was non-existent. 5 months in and only 28 games in their library. None of my friends even talk about Stadia anymore.
 

criteriondog

I like the chili style
Member
Oct 26, 2017
11,173
They really should have put people in charge who knew how the games industry works
We haven't heard from Phil Harrison since December, and it was barely a peep after launch.

If anyone posts this article in the Stadia subreddit, I expect it will get downvoted and people will become very defensive of Stadia, citing how the PS4 and Xbox One didn't have at launch or it's launch window.
 

ILikeFeet

DF Deet Master
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
61,987
And yet there'll be plenty of people here (I suspect many founders edition owners) who will insist it's a myth that they close stuff down.
Google's problem is that people even bring it up. they do nothing to counteract this thinking. they don't even lie well enough to counter it. it's kinda hard for them to lie about it at this point, but at least make an attempt
 

Slayven

Never read a comic in his life
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
93,213
was repeatedly brought up, unprompted, by every person we spoke with for this piece
I said goddamn, Google should work on that
Investments Google should have made, if they were serious:

- Buying at least a few studios back in 2017-2018.
- Waiving licencing fee for games for a couple of years, to encourage a wide variety of ports.
- An army of people working with any "partner" publishers, to make sure their games looked and ran as well as they possible could on Stadia's hardware - not sub-One X quality in most cases.
- Running the service as a free open beta, until the major features and "Base" tier were ready to go.
I would bet vegas money you put way more thought into it then Stadia launch team. This reeks of the Silicon Valley "We will make it cool by saying how cool it is" bullshit
 

dex3108

Member
Oct 26, 2017
22,620
Im fine with the fact that Google isn''t just bankrolling this with an open wallet and distorting the economics of game streaming.
The problem with big entrants has always been the massive distortions to the economics of game development but once that tap is turned off because of a strategy change, the people left holding the bag are the publishers and developers.

The struggles of this generation with regards to development timelines, cost/crunch etc is largely because of the overspending and subsidies to HD development during the 360/PS3 era and it's increasingly became unsustainable when you ramp that up again for the current gen of hardware platforms.

One interesting thing is it seems next gen may be more about targeting games to a range of specs while offering power users a top line machine if Lockhart is real. That would allow devs to keep on business as usual rather than having to target their games to 10 or 12 TF of hardware power or risk them 'not selling'.

They don't need to ask for exclusivity. They already have advantage that they can use, no need for hardware. They just need to pay developers to port their games on Stadia no strings attached. That way they are not limiting developers or users. And they had to launch with Free option day 1.
 
Oct 25, 2017
41,368
Miami, FL
sounds like a very valid concern
yep.

We've talked about that a lot over the months. The radio silence does not instill confidence.

Investments Google should have made, if they were serious:

- Buying at least a few studios back in 2017-2018.
- Waiving licencing fee for games for a couple of years, to encourage a wide variety of ports.
- An army of people working with any "partner" publishers, to make sure their games looked and ran as well as they possible could on Stadia's hardware - not sub-One X quality in most cases.
- Running the service as a free open beta, until the major features and "Base" tier were ready to go.
good post.
 

Hyperfludd

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,210
Biggest problem for Google is the impending competition.
GeForce Now looks to be a better service

xCloud is coming this year

PSNow is primed for a major revamp And will expand significantly.

All their competitors have avenues for offline play. Either on PC or console. Google's the odd one out.
I tried GeForce Now recently and man, it was far better than stadia for me. Stadia I had bouts of heavy latency, GeForce was pretty much flawless. Crazy how a company like google can't do that, I mean they're bigger than Nvidia right?
 

Deleted member 862

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,646
Google offering nothing for a service publishers think they're going to shut down anyway.

Doesn't exactly fill you with confidence as a consumer.
 

Slayven

Never read a comic in his life
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
93,213
I tried GeForce Now recently and man, it was far better than stadia for me. Stadia I had bouts of heavy latency, GeForce was pretty much flawless. Crazy how a company like google can't do that, I mean they're bigger than Nvidia right?
I am on the free tier but it seriosuly got me thinking about putting some money on it. It's so smooth
 

Deleted member 61326

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 12, 2019
614
Stadia feels like yet another service that was started by a few motivated individuals, passed the proof-of-concept stage and received additional funding. But now it has become a larger project, more people and coordination is needed and the people with the initial force have left for new shiny projects. And since it's not something that will succeed by itself, it will fail. 1 year from now, Stadia is virtually gone. 2 years from now, officially.
 

Slayven

Never read a comic in his life
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
93,213
Google offering nothing for a service publishers think they're going to shut down anyway.

Doesn't exactly fill you with confidence as a consumer.
I could totally see them approaching folks like "We doing you a favor by letting you on the platform" or "We pay you in exposure". Meanwhile Sony and MS will probably fly people out to your studio to help fix a menu bug.
 

JABEE

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,856
I could totally see them approaching folks like "We doing you a favor by letting you on the platform" or "We pay you in exposure". Meanwhile Sony and MS will probably fly people out to your studio to help fix a menu bug.
It's hard to believe this when they poached a lot of talent who knows how platform stuff works.

I wonder if it is more like, we know this flopped out of the gate and we aren't giving you extra budget to do anything if the initial release didn't sustain and fund the growth.
 

Slayven

Never read a comic in his life
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
93,213
It's hard to believe this when they poached a lot of talent who knows how platform stuff works.

I wonder if it is more like, we know this flopped out of the gate and we aren't giving you extra budget to do anything if the initial release didn't sustain and fund the growth.
Just because you hire someone, doesn't mean you will listen to them. There is a lot of crossover but I think tech and gaming corp cultures aren't 1:1, from it's announcement Stadia been handled like a tech product not a gaming one.

Stadia feels like yet another service that was started by a few motivated individuals, passed the proof-of-concept stage and received additional funding. But now it has become a larger project, more people and coordination is needed and the people with the initial force have left for new shiny projects. And since it's not something that will succeed by itself, it will fail. 1 year from now, Stadia is virtually gone. 2 years from now, officially.
I will say to my dying day Stadia was a probably a mobile office idea that got blown up by someone trying to make a name for themselves.
 

Deleted member 61326

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 12, 2019
614
Just because you hire someone, doesn't mean you will listen to them. There is a lot of crossover but I think tech and gaming corp cultures aren't 1:1, from it's announcement Stadia been handled like a tech product not a gaming one.


I will say to my dying day Stadia was a probably a mobile office idea that got blown up by someone trying to make a name for themselves.

Yep, I bet Stadia was en excellent tech project that was very fun and rewarding to finish.
 

JABEE

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,856
Just because you hire someone, doesn't mean you will listen to them. There is a lot of crossover but I think tech and gaming corp cultures aren't 1:1, from it's announcement Stadia been handled like a tech product not a gaming one.


I will say to my dying day Stadia was a probably a mobile office idea that got blown up by someone trying to make a name for themselves.
This is true. I meant "hard to believe" in I don't understand why they wouldn't shape their plan around knowing this going in, but Google probably thinks they know better and did things their own way.
 

Slayven

Never read a comic in his life
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
93,213
This is true. I meant "hard to believe" in I don't understand why they would shape their plan around knowing this going in, but Google probably thinks they know better and did things their own way.
I imagine "Disrupting the video game business" and "shifting the paradigm" was used a lot in Stadia meetings.
 

Jedi2016

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,735
The fact that they're not willing to provide any kind of guarantee to developers on the longevity of the project tells me they don't have near as much faith in the product as they publicly claim.
 

shaneo632

Weekend Planner
Member
Oct 29, 2017
29,022
Wrexham, Wales
Fascinating to me that this has been such a pervasive failure on Google's part. All the resources in the world and none of the business nous to get it done.