Oct 8, 2019
9,235
I like the Conviction arc of Berserk, in particular the later portion where Guts has to rescue Casca, but its been over 10 years since Demon Souls came out, and these games now all look the same because they are all using the same source material.

Its kind of amazing that in a manga where the vast majority of it involves the main character being in a pretty big group (in particular a mercenary army in the Golden Era Arc) the one major arc where his on his own is the one that constantly gets used to make video games, despite the fact that the entire point of the Conviction arc is that Guts being on his own will cause him to lose his humanity and become an Apostle.

The sole exception is Bloodborne which is to do this day the best looking Souls game because it doesnt just look like someone took the Lost Children arc and said "Here's the concept art lets make a video game". Looking at Wikipedia no one has updated the sales data of Bloodborne for a long time because I doubt it sold less than 3 million copies, but it also said it succeeded Sony expectation so why dont we at least get games that look like someone actually put effort into differentiating the design.

I look at JRPGs right now and it just seems like they are coming in two varietys; Retro rpgs based on Final Fantasy VI, and Souls games based on the Conviction arc of Berserk.

I look back at video games over the past 20 years and think "What Video games did the Millenium Falcon arc of Berserk influence" and the answer is: the two Berserk video games set in the Millennium Falcon arc.

I am not saying that the next Dark Souls games needs to have a fairy that constantly references Star Wars but I would just like Video Game developers to notice that there was more to Berserk than "Violent man stabs giant demon with big sword"
 

EggmaniMN

Banned
May 17, 2020
3,465
So you want Dark Souls on a boat then

But yes, I do feel that Dark Souls completely lacks the other like 80% of what made Berserk so great. It isn't just dark and violent action with evil things, there's comedy, there are characters, there's an actual reason for the main characters to do things and that just doesn't exist in a Souls game.
 

nsilvias

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,328
i dont read berserk but i agree. souls likes have started blending in with each other
 

Aaronrules380

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
22,621
Honestly one thing that's made me hesitant to try out Dark Souls again despite liking what I played of it is that I've gotten the impression the overall worldview of the series is incredibly nihilistic and I think Nihilism is an incredibly toxic and unhealthy mindset. As dark as Berserk got, it never embraces Nihilism and I'd even go as far to say rejecting nihilism no matter how bad things get is one of the core themes behind Berserk
 
Oct 27, 2017
39,148
Yeah that would be cool.

The current arc in Berserk is great. Especially because it is really varried. Having unicorns, pirates, sea gods and stuff like that along with technology like Rickert's bazooka would be cool to see. It feels very colorful yet very fitting with Berserk.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
117,699
I look at JRPGs right now and it just seems like they are coming in two varietys; Retro rpgs based on Final Fantasy VI, and Souls games based on the Conviction arc of Berserk.

Don't forget the otaku fetish bait, which is really the MAIN bulk of modern JRPGs. Souls is off in a weird little corner all by itself.
 

niall

Member
Oct 30, 2017
118
Rather than complaining that games are too similar, you could try broadening which games you play? There's an uncountable amount of RPGs out there which don't fit your narrative.
 

The Silver

Member
Oct 28, 2017
10,764
Time to flip it, instead of constantly being put in the shoes of a Guts figure and fighting all sorts of horrible monsters let us be Griffith and take over the world with our horrible monsters.
 
OP
OP
Charred Knight
Oct 8, 2019
9,235
So you want Dark Souls on a boat then

But yes, I do feel that Dark Souls completely lacks the other like 80% of what made Berserk so great. It isn't just dark and violent action with evil things, there's comedy, there are characters, there's an actual reason for the main characters to do things and that just doesn't exist in a Souls game.

I can safely say that I dont want Dark Souls 4 to reference the worst part of Berserk were Guts fights comic relief pirates and then kills a Great Old One all while the audience keeps saying "When will they get Skellig".

Which brings up something about design, compare Skellig to most Souls game out there and just look at how varied the astral beings are in the parade scene.

i mean, i can see why souls particularly keeps returning to the well

If Miyazaki read the conviction arc and it doesnt dawn on him that Guts sacrificing the people he loves to become a monster is presented as a big thing that he shouldnt be writing a video game.

Rather than complaining that games are too similar, you could try broadening which games you play? There's an uncountable amount of RPGs out there which don't fit your narrative.

I have been playing a lot of Crash Team Racing recently
 

skeezx

Member
Oct 27, 2017
20,448
to be honest the OP reads like ancient Greek to me (having not been that big on Berserk... watched a bit of the OG anime)

but i always found the "inspiration" in Souls to be kinda nebulous. like, it's there but not "there" there
 

Yuntu

Prophet of Regret Corrupted by Vengeance
Member
Nov 7, 2019
10,913
Germany
This doesnt really feel like a gaming issue but an issue you have with Froms games.

And even there I wouldnt agree fully.
 

Aaronrules380

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
22,621
to be honest the OP reads like ancient Greek to me (having not been that big on Berserk... watched a bit of the OG anime)

but i always found the "inspiration" in Souls to be kinda nebulous. like, it's there but not "there" there
I feel like it copies a lot of the imagery but very little of the substance
 

dodo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,013
If Miyazaki read the conviction arc and it doesnt dawn on him that Guts sacrificing the people he loves to become a monster is presented as a big thing that he shouldnt be writing a video game.

but... souls deals with lots of themes like this. it's abstract, but it's definitely not just aping berserk going Wow Big Sword!

honestly this thread kind of just comes off like you have a bone to pick with people for not being as good at liking berserk as you. there's more to souls than just the berserk influence, it's just one piece of inspiration for the series. they're not adapting berserk for you.
 

SpaceBridge

Member
Oct 31, 2017
2,754
I like the Conviction arc of Berserk, in particular the later portion where Guts has to rescue Casca, but its been over 10 years since Demon Souls came out, and these games now all look the same because they are all using the same source material.

Its kind of amazing that in a manga where the vast majority of it involves the main character being in a pretty big group (in particular a mercenary army in the Golden Era Arc) the one major arc where his on his own is the one that constantly gets used to make video games, despite the fact that the entire point of the Conviction arc is that Guts being on his own will cause him to lose his humanity and become an Apostle.

The sole exception is Bloodborne which is to do this day the best looking Souls game because it doesnt just look like someone took the Lost Children arc and said "Here's the concept art lets make a video game". Looking at Wikipedia no one has updated the sales data of Bloodborne for a long time because I doubt it sold less than 3 million copies, but it also said it succeeded Sony expectation so why dont we at least get games that look like someone actually put effort into differentiating the design.

I look at JRPGs right now and it just seems like they are coming in two varietys; Retro rpgs based on Final Fantasy VI, and Souls games based on the Conviction arc of Berserk.

I look back at video games over the past 20 years and think "What Video games did the Millenium Falcon arc of Berserk influence" and the answer is: the two Berserk video games set in the Millennium Falcon arc.

I am not saying that the next Dark Souls games needs to have a fairy that constantly references Star Wars but I would just like Video Game developers to notice that there was more to Berserk than "Violent man stabs giant demon with big sword"

I agree. The new Elden Ring trailer did nothing for me, just a paint by numbers From game. They show these grand vistas but it's all dead, ash clouds, and deformed beasts everywhere. I mean there some color here and there, but ultimately similar. But they sell well, and there's a huge market for them so the aesthetic remains legitimate.
 

Capra

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,814
Honestly one thing that's made me hesitant to try out Dark Souls again despite liking what I played of it is that I've gotten the impression the overall worldview of the series is incredibly nihilistic and I think Nihilism is an incredibly toxic and unhealthy mindset. As dark as Berserk got, it never embraces Nihilism and I'd even go as far to say rejecting nihilism no matter how bad things get is one of the core themes behind Berserk

Eh... The games can be incredibly bleak but a recurring theme is the world's people pressing on in spite of it all. NPCs want you to succeed and say stuff like, "Don't you dare to hollow". Kingdoms fall, the world ends, but people keep living.
 

Richietto

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,221
North Carolina
Eh... The games can be incredibly bleak but a recurring theme is the world's people pressing on in spite of it all. NPCs want you to succeed and say stuff like, "Don't you dare to hollow". Kingdoms fall, the world ends, but people keep living.
And in Dark Souls case you literally sacrifice yourself so humanity doesn't get snuffed out. It's bleak but the characters remain hopeful and trudge on, even if they meet an untimely fate.
 

skeezx

Member
Oct 27, 2017
20,448
I feel like it copies a lot of the imagery but very little of the substance

well to the point of your prior post Dark Souls (IMO) doesn't embrace nihilism but questions it as a possible "out"

that said i never finished DS3 because i suck at games so maybe they capped it all off with "yeah, just fuck it all" so i dunno
 
Last edited:
Nov 1, 2017
1,844
don't you think its quite a leap to assume that the creative teams behind these games are all just copying this one specific chapter from this one specific manga alone, and not the thousands of other sources of inspiration where swordsmen fight monsters

honestly this "its all references to my favorite manga!!" stuff is getting out of hand lol
 
Dec 27, 2019
6,162
Seattle
If we're making demands, I think they should move past Berserk and the monster killing D&D model entirely.

don't you think its quite a leap to assume that the creative teams behind these games are all just copying this one specific chapter from this one specific manga alone, and not the thousands of other sources of inspiration where swordsmen fight monsters
Not really. Miyazaki's spoken a number of times about his inspirations, and the things his art team uses for reference. Berserk is pretty central to the series, although there are obviously other influences.
 

Sargerus

â–˛ Legend â–˛
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
20,996
I would dare a game dev do a RPG based on the Lost Children arc.
26754479._SX540_.jpg
 

Protoman200X

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
8,653
N. Vancouver, BC, Canada
Yeah that would be cool.

The current arc in Berserk is great. Especially because it is really varried. Having unicorns, pirates, sea gods and stuff like that along with technology like Rickert's bazooka would be cool to see. It feels very colorful yet very fitting with Berserk.

This is something that I like about Berserk's world, as it feels as it's constantly evolving when it goes through a big phase (the series has already gone through the Golden Age, The Eclipse Age, and is currently in the Fantasia Age). I really like how the different phases really make it a point that it's something that Guts and co. have to push through (regardless of their actions), when in contemporary storytelling the world would reformat around the characters journey and the impact they make.
 
OP
OP
Charred Knight
Oct 8, 2019
9,235
Rather than complaining that games are too similar, you could try broadening which games you play? There's an uncountable amount of RPGs out there which don't fit your narrative.

Sales wise Dark Souls blows out pretty much every JRPG outside of Monster Hunter out of the water. Dark Souls games sells millions more than even Final Fantasy, so yeah its hard to get a a good recommendation in that situation.

I tried to play Tales of Vesperia but its aged like crap. I loved Trials of Mana but outside of Dragon Quest there doesnt seem to be a lot of games like it. Final Fantasy VII Remake was my favorite game of last year but its still a remake of an old game (as was Trials of Mana) and I dont want the future of JRPGs to be just remaking the good old games.

As for western RPGs that looks like its better as you dont see it as dominated by one franchise as JRPGs.
 

BlackJace

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
5,508
Ehhhh this might have to do with the main takeaways people get from dark fantasy as a narrative genre. Games (RPGs) aren't doing anything particularly egregious just by pulling from the best known examples of it (i.e. Berserk).
 
Nov 1, 2017
1,844
If we're making demands, I think they should move past Berserk and the monster killing D&D model entirely.

Not really. Miyazaki's spoken a number of times about his inspirations, and the things his art team uses for reference. Berserk is pretty central to the series, although there are obviously other influences.
Yeah obviously there are other influences, that's my point. The Berserk conspiracies are getting absurd at this point though and it kind of feels like a disservice to Miyazaki and the creative teams behind the games by saying it is so derivative from it. Like this person is saying that all of these games are based on these specific chapters of the manga, as if Berserk invented dark fantasy and heroes fighting monsters. There is so much shit in them that isn't Berserk at all.

EDIT:
That said I don't really know what OP is asking for from the games. More plot and less fighting monsters?
 
Last edited:

Richietto

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,221
North Carolina
don't you think its quite a leap to assume that the creative teams behind these games are all just copying this one specific chapter from this one specific manga alone, and not the thousands of other sources of inspiration where swordsmen fight monsters

honestly this "its all references to my favorite manga!!" stuff is getting out of hand lol
Pretty much this. We know Miyazaki took some inspiration from Beserk for Dark Souls, but the inspiration doesnt cancel out the sheer originality of Dark Souls' world and lore.
 

Baloota

Member
May 12, 2018
922
Egypt
don't you think its quite a leap to assume that the creative teams behind these games are all just copying this one specific chapter from this one specific manga alone, and not the thousands of other sources of inspiration where swordsmen fight monsters

honestly this "its all references to my favorite manga!!" stuff is getting out of hand lol
this
 

The Dink

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,056
I look at JRPGs right now and it just seems like they are coming in two varietys; Retro rpgs based on Final Fantasy VI, and Souls games based on the Conviction arc of Berserk.

This is one of the silliest things I've ever heard. Like...what are you even talking about? The majority of JRPGs I see being released these days don't fit either of these categories. Did you mean to say "Can From Software move past the conviction arc of Berserk" for this topic? Because that would at least make a kind of sense.
 

Vic20

Member
Nov 10, 2019
3,454
Like this person is saying that all of these games are based on these specifc chapters of the manga, as if Berserk invented heroes fighting monsters. There is so much shit in them that isn't Berserk at all.
Man, you're talking about the fanbase that still claims gwyn boss fight is easy because he's a shell of a man or something, they're gonna make their own headcanon and run wild with it.
 

slothrop

â–˛ Legend â–˛
Member
Aug 28, 2019
3,967
USA
Don't have a clue what Berserk is -- wish the OP gave a quick summary and explained the context and why it would relate to these games. Not all of the readers are going to be familiar with some specific arc of a manga, I'd wager a majority aren't even if they know more about Berserk than me.
 
OP
OP
Charred Knight
Oct 8, 2019
9,235
don't you think its quite a leap to assume that the creative teams behind these games are all just copying this one specific chapter from this one specific manga alone, and not the thousands of other sources of inspiration where swordsmen fight monsters

honestly this "its all references to my favorite manga!!" stuff is getting out of hand lol

My Favorite manga are Fullmetal Alchemist, and Gundam the Origin, I really loved Berserk in the early 00's but the Boat arc was pretty bad, but it massively returns to form once you finally get to Skellig. The stuff with Caska was fantastic.


Don't have a clue what Berserk is -- wish the OP gave a quick summary and explained the context and why it would relate to these games. Not all of the readers are going to be familiar with some specific arc of a manga, I'd wager a majority aren't even if they know more about Berserk than me.

Please note that this is NSFW

 

Hailinel

Shamed a mod for a tag
Member
Oct 27, 2017
35,527
Don't have a clue what Berserk is -- wish the OP gave a quick summary and explained the context and why it would relate to these games. Not all of the readers are going to be familiar with some specific arc of a manga, I'd wager a majority aren't even if they know more about Berserk than me.
Berserk is a long-running dark fantasy manga whose creator recently passed away. It's been very influential on fantasy pop culture, in Japan and elsewhere, for the past two decades. The Souls series in particular has an aesthetic heavily influenced and inspired by Berserk.
 

Jardim

Alt Account
Banned
Apr 7, 2021
644
At some point we are getting a Mortal Soul Shell: The Dark Ring of Salt and Blood announcement at E3
 
Dec 27, 2019
6,162
Seattle
Yeah obviously there are other influences, that's my point. The Berserk conspiracies are getting absurd at this point though and it kind of feels like a disservice to Miyazaki and the creative teams behind the games by saying it is so derivative from it. Like this person is saying that all of these games are based on these specific chapters of the manga, as if Berserk invented dark fantasy and heroes fighting monsters. There is so much shit in them that isn't Berserk at all.
Most people here probably know Berserk better than they know Fighting Fantasy though. People cite the stuff they're familiar with.

Don't have a clue what Berserk is -- wish the OP gave a quick summary and explained the context and why it would relate to these games.
000a96fcbee0bccac4655a4b88293c3ccb1089c9.png
 

b3llydrum

Member
Feb 21, 2018
4,147
They should be based of whatever part of Berserk that Xenoblade Chronicles 2 is based off of
 

Chopchop

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,171
Honestly one thing that's made me hesitant to try out Dark Souls again despite liking what I played of it is that I've gotten the impression the overall worldview of the series is incredibly nihilistic and I think Nihilism is an incredibly toxic and unhealthy mindset. As dark as Berserk got, it never embraces Nihilism and I'd even go as far to say rejecting nihilism no matter how bad things get is one of the core themes behind Berserk
The games are bleak, but I wouldn't say they embrace nihilism. They often emphasize finding the bits of humanity and hope amid all the bleakness, and valuing it because it's so hard to find.

Like Berserk, the FromSoft games focus on the struggle to not give in.
 

Pyro

God help us the mods are making weekend threads
Member
Jul 30, 2018
14,541
United States
I haven't read Berserk so I'm kinda at a loss even after thoroughly reading the OP. What games follow this arc? And if you're gonna say the Souls games I have no idea what's going on in those games, I just really enjoy the combat and exploration.
 

mael

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
17,138
Ok, so can the OP provide like 10 games that have this issue?
Because I know I don't play much JRPG anymore but I don't think I can name even 3 that do that aren't From games.
 

The Dink

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,056
Don't have a clue what Berserk is -- wish the OP gave a quick summary and explained the context and why it would relate to these games. Not all of the readers are going to be familiar with some specific arc of a manga, I'd wager a majority aren't even if they know more about Berserk than me.
I haven't read Berserk so I'm kinda at a loss even after thoroughly reading the OP. What games follow this arc? And if you're gonna say the Souls games I have no idea what's going on in those games, I just really enjoy the combat and exploration.

Yeah, Berserk is one of my favorite mangas and I have no idea what OP is trying to get at here.