Increible, but apparently, at 2:00 p.m. Central Time, Chapo's family is going to have a press conference to thank the president for the liberation of Chapo's son.
Chaos and confusion in Culiacán, Mexico following arrest of El Chapo's son
- Thread starter Tochtli79
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Criminal organizations activites are - by law -, a federal matter. Traditionally, governments kept armed forces away from fighting the Cartels to avoid corruption in its ranks. But since 2000, the PAN-lead (right christian party) forced them to enter the fray (encouraged by Obama's administration, whom called him the Mexican "Elliot Ness"), with the obvious consequences. It reached a point where Calderon actually pit the marines against the army, thinking that would stop the information leaks, that allowed the different Cartels to hit back harder. As expected, this caused massive waves of violence and civilian deaths in the country, with concerted efforts to hide the numbers of deceases.
Obrador rightly campaigned against that approach (which Calderon himself accepting as being wrong, in a televised conversation with the then, USA ambassador), and his plan was to create a federal police organization under President's charge, to deal with these sort of problems. This event will put a massive spotlight on it.
Side note: Please do not follow the childish rethoric that foreign intervention is needed. Movies might make you think otherwise, but Mexico's armed forces actually far outnumber and outpower the Cartels. Lack of firepower has never been the problem. Not engulfing northern cities (where most of the Cartels are entretched -- for obvious reasons--) in local battles of attrition must always be the main objective, and that's why intelligence data needs to be used in efficient and effective ways.
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Legalize cocaine and marijuana in the USA. The cartels would be broke in a year as legal industries sprung up to provide the drugs.
I saw on twitter everyone is losing their minds because netflix is writing down all the notes for their narcos show.
Un
Fucking
Believable....
Once again, fuck this government and those who put them in power.
Not if the dealers are cheaper, which is kinda the case with legal weed right now
That's what nuts about the Mexico arc of the show, it's continuing on and on, hope they don't rush the ending like GOT because the writers aren't done with that story either
What can be done about Mexico? And when I say Mexico I am mostly talking about the Cartels. How come we were able to cripple the Italian mafia with Rico laws but in Mexico......they just seem incompetent when it comes to Cartels. This is disgusting to watch The outcome of this recent event is straight out of the opening moments of a 90's action flick.
That would have worked 40 years ago, now in Mexico we have a really lucrative internal drugs market, Cartels have diversified their illicit actions (extortion, kidnapping, etc) and many Cartels own "legit" big business to laundry money. And as long as Mexico has the a big percentage of poor people and inequity the Cartels will remain having a lot of power.
Mexico is big and its geography facilitates Cartels hiding. Then, for decades we had corrupt governments at all levels and from all parties. Then we have our poverty and inequity problems, plus a "narco culture" (violence culture) and lack of emphatic education, so it is going to take more than a war.
Not to hold him in the heart of the city, but fly him the fuck out immediately, just like they have done for every other big capo, like his father, for starters.
Wouldn't this lead to the Cartels threatening violence against the country unless he is returned? Plus, from my understanding, the Cartel mobilized quickly and had a counter-attack ready faster than the military had anticipated.
The legal industry would be rightly sued into oblivion for killing people. You think what the Sacklers did was perfectly fine?
Cartels don't work like that. They were able to pressure the government by threatening the military families. Fly operatives in, take him out, fly them out. It doesn't take a lot to have a chopper pick the guy up, moving him some kms out, get him in a plane and get him out.
The problem was, they decided to keep him in a cell at the local station as if he was some kind of car thief. Every hour they kept him there, allowed the cartel to get organized. Military didn't know they were organizing, cartel did.
Another flaw that I saw is that they didn't fucking obliterate chapito's security detail. They just let them go. In all previous ops, military comes in, dusts security details to pieces, and then takes the target out. Prevents communication and coordination between cartel cells from happening. Can't communicate much when you are pinned down to the ground and a chopper is raining bullets on your face. Also, chapito's security detail saw where they were taking him! Dafuq is that for a smart move?
It's always done that way, bogs my mind why they tried to do it differently this time.
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Where are you getting this info? The official summary makes it seem like this all happened very quickly and wasn't a planned operation.
Either way, I was talking on a macro-level not this one particular instance.
I see a lot of people hear shitting on Mexico's government for handing over El Chapo's son, but when you are outnumbered by the cartel what options do you really have?
Honestly there was some weird stuff. I read a tweet about cancelling class in schools because a strong rain... hours before the operative happened.
Not hold the captive for hours in a single spot. Instead fly him out asap when he was captured?
Lmfao okay now that makes more sense. Yeah that is uh very fucking stupid. Have they stated a reason as to why he wasn't moved out?
Cartel violence in Mexico is always present. It is when two or more Cartels start fighting or there is a strong military operative against them that you see this type of news. But year after year it is growing. Cartel violence also does not affect all cities equal. Some cities can be really calm for some time, then a rival Cartel tries to invade and it can become one of the most dangerous places in the region.
None. What these idiots want (I suppose, because they only talk shit but never provide any solutions or sugestions, or what they want, they only bark ) is for more violence and gun fights and the like to use tactics such as the good old "We told you all" xD mis ternuritas.
They are just shitting on the goverment because this situation gives them opportunity to do so. They don't give a fuck about the cartel or the affected people , or the country, they just want to live in their stupid bubble where it was ok to shit on the poor and indigenous people without consequence, they want to be in their ( sometimes only perceived and non existent) privilege.
Fuck them.
They only said they found him bu chance to look a little less incompetents, they knew where he was and they went for him but their plan was shit from the start
Cigarettes are still doing fine now that they warn people. It would be no different, as long as you warn people up front. The sacklers are in trouble because they knowingly lied about the dangers to prescribers. The drug war has harmed far more people then legalized drugs ever would.
Most major cities in Sinaloa like Mochis were subject to a cartel curfew while the Cartel forces were moved out so support Culiacan. Communications were jammed. Federal, State, Local, and military government forces were conspicuously absent throughout the whole thing.
How were military armored convoys able to get from city to city without being stopped or spotted by someone?
This was one of the most SNAFUd thing I've ever seen. Not even the blockades in Monterrey of years ago reeked so much of ineptitude and general idiocy.
Quite a lot of assumptions you are making here. I for one am not asking for bullet shooting. When you as a military unit, have enough intelligence, minimal shooting and casualties are necessary.
I honestly don't fucking care if AMLO got his good press today due to being able to capture Chapito. I have nothing against the current government. I do have something against endangering the lives of civilians, increasing the power of the cartels even more, and negotiating with terrorists in the fucking open.
How were military armored convoys able to get from city to city without being stopped or spotted by someone?
This was one of the most SNAFUd thing I've ever seen. Not even the blockades in Monterrey of years ago reeked so much of ineptitude and general idiocy.
Quite a lot of assumptions you are making here. I for one am not asking for bullet shooting. When you as a military unit, have enough intelligence, minimal shooting and casualties are necessary.
I honestly don't fucking care if AMLO got his good press today due to being able to capture Chapito. I have nothing against the current government. I do have something against endangering the lives of civilians, increasing the power of the cartels even more, and negotiating with terrorists in the fucking open.
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Shut the fuck up.
You don't fucking surrender to them; as a Sinaloense you fucking commit. Because is such a short sighted thing to do, to let them go. This emboldens the fuckers. If they really did commit mass killings, that would have pressured the government to react with even more force. And whatever sympathy (which sadly is much more I'd like) the sinaloenses have with the narcos would have eroded. Many of them think the peace here is thanks to the Chapo, and even idolize him. I guess that is not a secret. The goverment would have gained support for the people, the state has the fucking monopoly in violence by definition. They no longer govern in this state.
Specially fuck you for talking like we all live in bubbles, I may be very biased because one of my cousins was motherfucking burned alive during the Calderon gov by those fuckers. Left a widow and two daughters.
So, excuse me if I get emotional and get furious with the government.
Who is so fucking dishonest and arrogant to be unable to admit that the security strategy has been a mistake. And suddenly growing balls with a reporter for asking. Were was this courage yesterday?
And by the way, with all the fear yesterday. I WANT answers, I want to know anything abuot what is happening. And he is just talking like nothing is happening without a care, saying "tomorrow, tomorrow". His campaing event in Oaxaca is clearly more important. And we get this mañanera?
I'm rightfully angry.
Don't listen to him. Check his post history from a year ago. He is only here to defend AMLO.
I don't care you are Angry, i'm not going to shut the fuck up and if you don't like it you know what you can do. If the shoe fits, wear it asshole.
NOW is the time to speak up and get emotional right? when we have been in this war for more than 12 years. NOW is the time to call the goverment strategy a failure.
And i love how you put yourself in the bubble of racism and classism that i was describing. A total class act.
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All these years, and Mexico isn't better off. Different parties have come and gone, and the country still fucked. I don't think I will live to see a prosperous, thriving, violence free Mexico, and that's the saddest future for a country with so much potential.
OP
OP
Here's a summary from the Guardian:
AMLO says one thing, videos and witness accounts tell another. And he refuses to take responsibility for this mess. And instead of sending a message to ensure the people that his government will be firm against the cartels, he goes after the press for trying to hold him accountable. Sigh.
Oh and Chapo's lawyer thanks God that Ovidio was released. Lmfao.
AMLO says one thing, videos and witness accounts tell another. And he refuses to take responsibility for this mess. And instead of sending a message to ensure the people that his government will be firm against the cartels, he goes after the press for trying to hold him accountable. Sigh.
Oh and Chapo's lawyer thanks God that Ovidio was released. Lmfao.
You sure sound like an entitled piece of work, whom seems to pretend is the only one who has suffered the consequences of this bloody war.
And yes, the cartels have far better weaponry than the military, they outpower the military ever since the failed join operation between the DEA and FECAL government known as "Fast and Furious". I mean they assaulted the city with Barrets M82, fucking anti tank rifles.
It's always present just the magnitude of the violence varies
A lot of my friends and neighbors here in California have decided to not go back because of the violence. My mom won't dare visit her home town
Ever since you started posted in this thread it has been clear that you only care about defending your God Emperor instead of what happened, you are pathetic and need to stop posting.
No
Cartel outnumbers and outguns the military, but up until yesterday, Military efficiency and training vastly outclassed them. Cartels are known for shooting like rednecks. No precision, just firepower and volume. It was known that for every downed soldier, 10 to 12 narcs were downed. Navy operations were famous due to their efficiency in terms of being able to provide overwhelming odds against narcs whenever they were deployed. Cartels usually ran away from the military and resorted to guerrilla and extortion tactics instead of open warfare. Open warfare was usually opened against rival narcs.
That was up until yesterday.
No, but they used to have choppers, drones, and personnel mobilization jets. I always admired how skilled the military is when it comes to shooting the equipment they do have, it's something they take pride of.
You can get mad as much as you want. I will not stop calling out all these Mexicans trying to control these kind of threads about Mexico with their false narrative and FOX News tactics. The more you get mad, the better.
The US in not going to intervene, nor should they, unless continued violence spilled across the border - which also isn't going to happen because the cartels don't want the US rolling through and wiping them out. The US isn't going to engage in a military conflict on its border. I don't even think the US would intervene if Mexico asked them to.
We will never ask US for help on this.
Wanna help? Ban being able to buy weapons anywhere.
Don't bother. All he rambles on about is how you are "classist and racist" and "hate the natives" if you speak negatively against AMLO. Pure insanity.
Apparently pointing out the incompetence of the government and their cowardice makes you "privileged". You know, the same idiotic rethoric the president himself applied with the term "fifí".
I needed to take a brake and relax, but wanted to clarify.
My rant was set off because of your assumption I don't care about my own friends, family, or any other fellow mexican, and that my objective was just critic the government.
I deeply care, it's rare for me to get this emotional. Yesterday, and this morning, was a truly stressful day for everybody. My shut up was specifically for that part (not caring), you may say whatever you want to defend or not the government or whoever. Honestly don't expect you to stay quiet, it was an emotional post from me that serves no purpose.
I'd disagree with the security strategy of Peña, and partially with the one from Calderon. But I rarely met anyone who would defend those government's strategies. Just the occasional person who was defeatist and said that was just how things were. Perhaps that is why I wasn't vocal enough (About disagreeing), and just supported other people who were.
I disagree, profoundly, to the decision to let him go. Yet that isn't what made me an emotional mess, it's probably the decision with less deaths at least on the short term that the gov could take.
What made this emotional today was the whole attitude, and handling of the situation from the president tonight, but specially this morning. Just added more chaotic feelings to yesterday disaster for me.
My rant was set off because of your assumption I don't care about my own friends, family, or any other fellow mexican, and that my objective was just critic the government.
I deeply care, it's rare for me to get this emotional. Yesterday, and this morning, was a truly stressful day for everybody. My shut up was specifically for that part (not caring), you may say whatever you want to defend or not the government or whoever. Honestly don't expect you to stay quiet, it was an emotional post from me that serves no purpose.
I'd disagree with the security strategy of Peña, and partially with the one from Calderon. But I rarely met anyone who would defend those government's strategies. Just the occasional person who was defeatist and said that was just how things were. Perhaps that is why I wasn't vocal enough (About disagreeing), and just supported other people who were.
I disagree, profoundly, to the decision to let him go. Yet that isn't what made me an emotional mess, it's probably the decision with less deaths at least on the short term that the gov could take.
What made this emotional today was the whole attitude, and handling of the situation from the president tonight, but specially this morning. Just added more chaotic feelings to yesterday disaster for me.
The US doesn't sell LMGs, HMGs, rocket launchers nor any of the automatic weapons you're seeing there. The guns coming from the US is a minuscule part of the equation there. The cartels aren't overrunning your military with guns from the US.