Dhaos

Member
Oct 30, 2017
40
For China: Ethnic Nationalism > conserving the world's endangered species


There is legit bush medicine that science has derived medical treatments from but traditional Chinese medicines are bunk

Not sure what this has to do with ethnic nationalism in China?

100% agree that Chinese medicine is bunk, as a future doctor myself. Some of the herbs and things like acupuncture and cupping aid in symptomatic treatment, but studies have failed to show any efficacy in treating the underlying pathology itself. There have been some efforts to find actual scientific uses for the herbs, and Tu YouYou actually won the Nobel Prize in 2015 from developing Artemesinin from a Chinese herb, which is now a first line treatment for malaria. Most of it is obviously just folk tradition, without any real pharmaceutical value.

Western medicine has largely replaced traditional Chinese medicine (TCM) in China, but it's still practiced in some varying degrees throughout the country. Older, less educated folks still reply on it for primary care, and many use it conjunction with Western medicine to treat chronic, uncurable ailments. Things like rhino horn obviously isn't widely available and is very niche, but something very niche in a large country can still be devastating when endangered animals are involved.

But, never mind all the details. FUCK CHINA!!11! The rest of Asia can suck it too.
 

Bung Hole

Banned
Jan 9, 2018
2,169
Auckland, New Zealand
We are the masters of our own doom.

Fucking up the planet one species at a time. As a species we just don't give a fuck about anything. Future generations will have to deal with the fallout and they will be asking wtf happened.
 

Maneil99

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
5,252
Which is? Educating your ignorant self?
Republicans are bad for america I 100% support that. BUUUUUUUUUUUUT THIS ONE GUY INCREASED MINIMUM WAGE.

You're so insecure about China getting called out it's hilarious. Just take the L.

"What about America!'
"What about their feelings!"
"What about this one Chinese Doctor that got a Nobel Prize in 2015!"

Tell your kids when they point at a picture of a tiger and ask what it is in 20 years not to worry. That you stuck up for China on Resetera so that broad generalizations weren't made in a thread.
 

Dhaos

Member
Oct 30, 2017
40
Republicans are bad for america I 100% support that. BUUUUUUUUUUUUT THIS ONE GUY INCREASED MINIMUM WAGE.

You're so insecure about China getting called out it's hilarious. Just take the L.

"What about America!'
"What about their feelings!"
"What about this one Chinese Doctor that got a Nobel Prize in 2015!"

Tell your kids when they point at a picture of a tiger and ask what it is in 20 years not to worry. That you stuck up for China on Resetera so that broad generalizations weren't made in a thread.

What do you mean Republicans are bad for America bro. It's FUCK AMERICA and FUCK WHITE PEOPLE. We ain't got room for nuances in this thread.

I'm glad you have a convenient scapegoat for all the things that are wrong with this world. Of course, the decline of tigers from a population of 100,000 a century ago to 2500 today is just because of those savages using Chinese medicine, not rich white people hunting for sport...

Last I heard they used the DoDo and Tasmanian Tiger in Chinese medicine too? I hear that the reason there used to be 30 million bison in North America but now only 30,000 exist in the wild is because of Chinese people and their medicine?

China and Chinese medicine is a BIG part of the problem when it comes to animal conservation. But not the only problem. My ancestors, relatives and culture are NOT your scapegoat. Fuck off if it is.
 

Plum

Member
May 31, 2018
17,409
What do you mean Republicans are bad for America bro. It's FUCK AMERICA and FUCK WHITE PEOPLE. We ain't got room for nuances in this thread.

I'm glad you have a convenient scapegoat for all the things that are wrong with this world. Of course, the decline of tigers from a population of 100,000 a century ago to 2500 today is just because of those savages using Chinese medicine, not rich white people hunting for sport...

Last I heard they used the DoDo and Tasmanian Tiger in Chinese medicine too? I hear that the reason there used to be 30 million bison in North America but now only 30,000 exist in the wild is because of Chinese people and their medicine?

China and Chinese medicine is a BIG part of the problem when it comes to animal conservation. But not the only problem. My ancestors, relatives and culture are NOT your scapegoat. Fuck off if it is.

Nobody is saying that China is behind "all the things that are wrong with this world," and nobody is saying that China is the "only problem" when it comes to environmental and animal conservation issues. However, in this particular case, China is the problem. There are no other countries with even close to China's significance encouraging the poaching of Rhinos and Tigers, and the reasoning behind this decision is one based entirely in Chinese culture, medicine, and economics; this is very much a problem being caused by China and it is one that must be solved by China. Pointing to the West's part in the environmental catastrophes we are facing doesn't change that fact, all it does is deflect blame away from those who are actively causing it.
 

entremet

You wouldn't toast a NES cartridge
Member
Oct 26, 2017
61,773
Eventually there will none of these left. This ruling is so dumb.
 

Maneil99

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
5,252
What do you mean Republicans are bad for America bro. It's FUCK AMERICA and FUCK WHITE PEOPLE. We ain't got room for nuances in this thread.

I'm glad you have a convenient scapegoat for all the things that are wrong with this world. Of course, the decline of tigers from a population of 100,000 a century ago to 2500 today is just because of those savages using Chinese medicine, not rich white people hunting for sport...

Last I heard they used the DoDo and Tasmanian Tiger in Chinese medicine too? I hear that the reason there used to be 30 million bison in North America but now only 30,000 exist in the wild is because of Chinese people and their medicine?

China and Chinese medicine is a BIG part of the problem when it comes to animal conservation. But not the only problem. My ancestors, relatives and culture are NOT your scapegoat. Fuck off if it is.
You're making fake arguements it's honestly hilarious seeing someone incable of grasping a point. Keep moving the goalposts. You talk out of both sides of your mouth. It's Chinas populations responsibility to fix their shit. You constantly bring up other countries to some how make China seem less bad? I don't give a shit about your ancestors and it has nothing to do with this. You're not a victim in someone saying fuck China. You haven't convinced anyone in this thread to not say it. Good thing you're going to school to be a doctor, with straw man arguements like yours you'd be lucky to get out of a high school debate



Fuck China
 

Dhaos

Member
Oct 30, 2017
40
You're making fake arguements it's honestly hilarious seeing someone incable of grasping a point. Keep moving the goalposts. You talk out of both sides of your mouth. It's Chinas populations responsibility to fix their shit. You constantly bring up other countries to some how make China seem less bad? I don't give a shit about your ancestors and it has nothing to do with this. You're not a victim in someone saying fuck China. You haven't convinced anyone in this thread to not say it. Good thing you're going to school to be a doctor, with straw man arguements like yours you'd be lucky to get out of a high school debate



Fuck China

Alright man, keep making personal attacks. That's how you win high school debates for sure. Next time, try responding to my points, but I guess in this day and age, taking a page from the Trumpian style of rhetoric and calling them "fake arguments" is good enough.
 

Maneil99

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
5,252
Alright man, keep making personal attacks. That's how you win high school debates for sure. Next time, try responding to my points, but I guess in this day and age, taking a page from the Trumpian style of rhetoric and calling them "fake arguments" is good enough.
I've literslly refuted your points and you reply with "leave me, my ancestors and culture out of it". Everytime someone's called you out you create a whataboutism
 

Deleted member 907

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,300
They don't. Chinese medicine is snake oil
Actual snake oil was an effective analgesic similar to the various Asian menthol oils that work like Icy/Hot. The reason why "snake oil" has been ubiquitous with fake shit is because whites were marketing literal poison as authentic Chinese analgesic balms. Those salesmen were more than happy to exploit and exotify Chinese wares while being virulently racist and promoting xenophobia. Your post is all sorts of ironic because the usage of rhino horns as an erection aid, the commonly associated use, was also created by whites.
 
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ry-dog

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,180
Actual snake oil was an effective analgesic similar to the various Asian menthol oils that work like Icy/Hot. The reason why "snake oil" has been ubiquitous with fake shit is because whites were marketing literal poison as authentic Chinese analgesic balms. Those salesmen were more than happy to exploit and exotify Chinese wares while being virulently racist and promoting xenophobia. Your post is all sorts of ironic because the usage of rhino horns as an erection aid, the commonly associated use, was also created by whites.

Right, but that's also bullshit too. Traditional Chinese medicine isn't medicine, it's given its own catagory specifically because it doesn't pass clinical trials or rigorous testing, if it did it would simply be called medicine. The same applies to any "western" alternative medical practices, which there are plenty of too
 

Rondras

Banned
Aug 28, 2018
538
Is China racing everyone to prove how shit they are(the goverment, not the people)? Don't they have enough with being dictators and controlling everything? I'm so sick of them.. gosh, I seriously hope they get destroyed in the near future and our actual future isn't China controlling everything.
 

Deleted member 907

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,300
Right, but that's also bullshit too. Traditional Chinese medicine isn't medicine, it's given its own catagory specifically because it doesn't pass clinical trials or rigorous testing, if it did it would simply be called medicine. The same applies to any "western" alternative medical practices, which there are plenty of too
What's bullshit in my post? You think Icy/Hot is bullshit? Tucks pads(derived from witch hazel)? Or any kind topical ointments that simulate the feeling of numbing agents?

Or how about eucalyptus syrup to soothe a sore throat? Is that bullshit too because it doesn't cure the underlying infection that caused the sore throat in the first place?
 
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Maneil99

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
5,252
What's bullshit in my post? You think Icy/Hot is bullshit? Tucks pads(derived from witch hazel)? Or any kind topical ointments that simulate the feeling of numbing agents?

Or how about eucalyptus syrup to soothe a sore throat? Is that bullshit too because it doesn't cure the underlying infection that caused the sore throat in the first place?
But but not all Chinese tradition medicine is fake! This isn't the thread to defend Chinese traditional medicine. How you can't tell from the topic at hand idk.
 

Deleted member 907

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,300
But but not all Chinese tradition medicine is fake! This isn't the thread to defend Chinese traditional medicine. How you can't tell from the topic at hand idk.
It's the same way you can't figure out that the sentiment "Fuck China" has a storied history steeped in racism and xenophobia as demonstrated by far too many posts in this thread.
 
Dec 4, 2017
3,103
Only doctors at hospitals recognised by the State Administration of Traditional Chinese Medicine will be allowed to use powdered forms of rhino horn and tiger bones.

Tourism and cultural heritage authorities will also have to sign off on any rhino and tiger products that are used for "temporary cultural exchange".

Trade volume will be "strictly controlled", the State Council said, with any trade outside of authorised use cases to remain banned.

So if you're part of the princeling nomenklatura, or rich enough to bribe the relevant officials, you can get it legally, else you're SoL. Welp, rich impotent middle-aged men continue to be the worst fucking creatures this planet has spawned.
 

Maneil99

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
5,252
It's the same way you can't figure out that the sentiment "Fuck China" has a storied history steeped in racism and xenophobia as demonstrated by far too many posts in this thread.
Yah no. Coming into a thread about a country driving two species to extinction only to argue against outrage at that said country like he does is blatant whataboutism. Especially when his entire post history is about chinese issues.
 

Deleted member 907

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,300
Yah no. Coming into a thread about a country driving two species to extinction only to argue against outrage at that said country like he does is blatant whataboutism. Especially when his entire post history is about chinese issues.
If it wasn't him, it would been another one of us and it wouldn't change the validity of his statements. Even then, a vast majority of Chinese people don't give a shit, couldn't give a shit, wouldn't have access to the product, and aren't pushing for these laws. Saying "Fuck China" is saying "Fuck the Chinese" because you are, intentionally or not, making that relationship between the country and it's people. When you say killing 20 million dogs for consumption makes it widespread despite the population being over 1 billion people to defend someone saying that the country is backwards? That's making a relationship between a country and it's people. You want to say "Fuck those Chinese oligarchs?" I can't think of anyone that wouldn't get behind that sentiment. But as a Chinese person in the US, seeing "Fuck China" means "Fuck YOU" because that's what it implies considering the a history of xenophobia and racism in the West.
 

Maneil99

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
5,252
If it wasn't him, it would been another one of us and it wouldn't change the validity of his statements. Even then, a vast majority of Chinese people don't give a shit, couldn't give a shit, wouldn't have access to the product, and aren't pushing for these laws. Saying "Fuck China" is saying "Fuck the Chinese" because you are, intentionally or not, making that relationship between the country and it's people. When you say killing 20 million dogs for consumption makes it widespread despite the population being over 1 billion people to defend someone saying that the country is backwards? That's making a relationship between a country and it's people. You want to say "Fuck those Chinese oligarchs?" I can't think of anyone that wouldn't get behind that sentiment. But as a Chinese person in the US, seeing "Fuck China" means "Fuck YOU" because that's what it implies considering the a history of xenophobia and racism in the West.

Who said fuck the Chinese. Nobody. Okay, stop doing whataboutism. Fuck China isn't fuck the chinese. Jesus christ. Is fuck republicans = fuck white people? Fuck Cops too far? smh.
 

Deleted member 907

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,300
Who said fuck the Chinese. Nobody. Okay, stop doing whataboutism. Fuck China isn't fuck the chinese. Jesus christ. Is fuck republicans = fuck white people? Fuck Cops too far? smh.
What's the difference between "fuck China" and "fuck the Chinese" when, for all intents and purposes, it's the same thing? You can't separate the people from their country. Why are you so invested in being allowed to say "Fuck China" when you have actual Chinese people telling you that it's racist? You don't get to tell us that it isn't because you're not the fucking victim of it. WE are the victims and it's a pattern that Asians in the West are all too familiar with. It doesn't matter if it's rhino horns or eating certain animals; it comes from the same fucking place that China, and therefore the Chinese, are a backwards and shitty culture.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,284
NYC
What's the difference between "fuck China" and "fuck the Chinese" when, for all intents and purposes, it's the same thing? You can't separate the people from their country. Why are you so invested in being allowed to say "Fuck China" when you have actual Chinese people telling you that it's racist? You don't get to tell us that it isn't because you're not the fucking victim of it. WE are the victims and it's a pattern that Asians in the West are all too familiar with. It doesn't matter if it's rhino horns or eating certain animals; it comes from the same fucking place that China, and therefore the Chinese, are a backwards and shitty culture.

are the people going to do something about this or not?
 

Maneil99

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
5,252
What's the difference between "fuck China" and "fuck the Chinese" when, for all intents and purposes, it's the same thing? You can't separate the people from their country. Why are you so invested in being allowed to say "Fuck China" when you have actual Chinese people telling you that it's racist? You don't get to tell us that it isn't because you're not the fucking victim of it. WE are the victims and it's a pattern that Asians in the West are all too familiar with. It doesn't matter if it's rhino horns or eating certain animals; it comes from the same fucking place that China, and therefore the Chinese, are a backwards and shitty culture.
You two keep ignoring the point. You two are only in this thread because it's China in the title. You're not a victim in this. When someone shows outrage that two species are likely to go extinct and uses Fuck China as an outlet and you make the thread about your feelings don't be surprised when nobody gives a shit.

Saying you hate a country isn't the same as saying you hate all the people. You're drawing an imaginary line. Because racists draw the line doesn't mean everyone here is racist by saying that. China, as a country, is responsible for a large portion of the decline in these species populations. Just like many countries are responsible for doing the same to other species. The two of you continue to make this about your feelings despite no relevance to the thread. It's not different then going to a thread about the recent journalist killing and getting mad at all the "Fuck Saudi Arabia" claims.

Nobody did that though, yet you two felt the need to click this thread and make it about whataboutisms about racism towards Chinese. I'm Asian too, so I get where you come from. You're defensive because this reinforces a mainstream stereotype in the West of asians eating and killing everything that moves. "Don't eat my dog" is a stereotype I've heard a disgusting amount of times. I don't think someone in this thread being outraged that China is allowing this is reinforcing that stereotype, at least not by saying Fuck China. I think there may be a questionable post involving dogs that is stemmed from racism. But saying people can't say Fuck China? Nah.

There's tons of racism towards China and the dog eating stereotype, but Fuck China is where you lose me.

How do you feel about all the threads about China forcing companies to ignore Taiwan. Many people there say Fuck China, is that stemmed from racism too somehow?

How about Fuck Israel, a common stance here, is that racist towards Jewish people?

China's exploitive use of Africa and racism towards Africans, threads consist of Fuck China, is that racism?


I'd like you to actually respond to the last three examples of you could. These are very fair examples to this thread.
 
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Deleted member 907

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,300
You two keep ignoring the point. You two are only in this thread because it's China in the title. You're not a victim in this. When someone shows outrage that two species are likely to go extinct and uses Fuck China as an outlet and you make the thread about your feelings don't be surprised when nobody gives a shit.

Saying you hate a country isn't the same as saying you hate all the people. You're drawing an imaginary line. Because racists draw the line doesn't mean everyone here is racist by saying that. China, as a country, is responsible for a large portion of the decline in these species populations. Just like many countries are responsible for doing the same to other species. The two of you continue to make this about your feelings despite no relevance to the thread. It's not different then going to a thread about the recent journalist killing and getting mad at all the "Fuck Saudi Arabia" claims.

Nobody did that though, yet you two felt the need to click this thread and make it about whataboutisms about racism towards Chinese. I'm Asian too, so I get where you come from. You're defensive because this reinforces a mainstream stereotype in the West of asians eating and killing everything that moves. "Don't eat my dog" is a stereotype I've heard a disgusting amount of times. I don't think someone in this thread being outraged that China is allowing this is reinforcing that stereotype, at least not by saying Fuck China. I think there may be a questionable post involving dogs that is stemmed from racism. But saying people can't say Fuck China? Nah.

There's tons of racism towards China and the dog eating stereotype, but Fuck China is where you lose me.

How do you feel about all the threads about China forcing companies to ignore Taiwan. Many people there say Fuck China, is that stemmed from racism too somehow?

How about Fuck Israel, a common stance here, is that racist towards Jewish people?

China's exploitive use of Africa and racism towards Africans, threads consist of Fuck China, is that racism?


I'd like you to actually respond to the last three examples of you could. These are very fair examples to this thread.
Its not about "our feelings" and allowing sentiment like "Fuck China" to get a pass only serves to reinforce the thick undercurrent of anti-Asian racism in this forum, especially when it comes to Asian men. And weren't you the one that defended that questionable comment about the dog eating and called me a kid?

If people are using stereotypes to support their stances, the yes, it's racism. When it comes to China being an colonialist power, I'd have to be blind to deny that they are acting like one. The problem stems from people expecting them to be better than the Western colonialists and clean up the mess that the West left. This is also extended to the West hunting most big game animals to near extinction before they got their shit right, which is how me and Dhaos are tying everything together.

Long story short: the West owes the continent of Africa reparations. With Taiwan, the US backed the Nationalist government when it was in China and backed it again when the Nationalists pillaged the island.

Israel is an apartheid state with support from most of it's citizens akin to how the US has support. If people are dogwhistling about banks and being thrifty, I'd be there calling it out too.
 

Maneil99

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
5,252
Its not about "our feelings" and allowing sentiment like "Fuck China" to get a pass only serves to reinforce the thick undercurrent of anti-Asian racism in this forum, especially when it comes to Asian men. And weren't you the one that defended that questionable comment about the dog eating and called me a kid?

If people are using stereotypes to support their stances, the yes, it's racism. When it comes to China being an colonialist power, I'd have to be blind to deny that they are acting like one. The problem stems from people expecting them to be better than the Western colonialists and clean up the mess that the West left. This is also extended to the West hunting most big game animals to near extinction before they got their shit right, which is how me and Dhaos are tying everything together.

Long story short: the West owes the continent of Africa reparations. With Taiwan, the US backed the Nationalist government when it was in China and backed it again when the Nationalists pillaged the island.

Israel is an apartheid state with support from most of it's citizens akin to how the US has support. If people are dogwhistling about banks and being thrifty, I'd be there calling it out too.

People expect China to be better then the West was because its the 21st century? Why are you acting as if that is not reasonable?

Nothing you said about the Taiwan situation corralates to what I asked? When people say Fuck China in regards to China's stance on companies recognizing Taiwan is it grounded in racism? Seems like a far stretch.

Allowing sentiment like "Fuck Israel" also allows anti semites to reinforce their beliefs. So we either start banning half this forum board in Israeli threads or realize there is a double standard that you and Dhaos are asking for.





Saying Fuck China isn't dogwhistling in a thread where China is greenlighting the slaughter of endangered animals for faux medicines.

Saying "This is expected from the Chinese" is dogwhistling and racism

Saying "Fuck Israel" isn't dogwhistling in a thread where Israel commits acts of violence or theft on palestine.

Saying "What do you expect from Jews (Ethnicity)" is racist and unnaceptable.


Context of a thread matters. Dhaos came to this thread only due to China being in the title. His entire 60 posts are all about China or Asia.
 
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Plum

Member
May 31, 2018
17,409
If people are using stereotypes to support their stances, the yes, it's racism. When it comes to China being an colonialist power, I'd have to be blind to deny that they are acting like one. The problem stems from people expecting them to be better than the Western colonialists and clean up the mess that the West left. This is also extended to the West hunting most big game animals to near extinction before they got their shit right, which is how me and Dhaos are tying everything together.

Colonialism isn't some child's toy in a nursery that must be "shared" with everyone "getting their turn", it's a despicable act that destroys cultures, ruins ecosystems and destabilises nations for many, many years to come. Arguing that the West should lend reparations to Africa (and they should, definitely) whilst simultaneously defending China as they do something very close to the same thing is incredibly hypocritical of you. It also doesn't even make logical sense; should we have not "expected" more from colonialist Europe/America because of the many civilisations who had conquered, pillaged and committed genocide before them? At what point does "colonialism is disgusting" end and "ah well, it's just colonialists being colonialists!" begin?

EDIT: Maneil, you should probably calm down. You're not coming across as very level-headed here.
 

Maneil99

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
5,252
Colonialism isn't some child's toy in a nursery that must be "shared" with everyone "getting their turn", it's a despicable act that destroys cultures, ruins ecosystems and destabilises nations for many, many years to come. Arguing that the West should lend reparations to Africa (and they should, definitely) whilst simultaneously defending China as they do something very close to the same thing is incredibly hypocritical of you. It also doesn't even make logical sense; should we have not "expected" more from colonialist Europe/America because of the many civilisations who had conquered, pillaged and committed genocide before them? At what point does "colonialism is disgusting" end and "ah well, it's just colonialists being colonialists!" begin?

EDIT: Maneil, you should probably calm down. You're not coming across as very level-headed here.
It's been like 8 posts of tryin to tell them that just because other places do something awful doesn't excuse china but it keeps coming back to "The west" or "Not all of China". I just can't do it lmao.
 

Deleted member 907

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,300
People expect China to be better then the West was because its the 21st century? Why are you acting as if that is not reasonable?

Nothing you said about the Taiwan situation corralates to what I asked? When people say Fuck China in regards to China's stance on companies recognizing Taiwan is it grounded in racism? Seems like a far stretch.

Allowing sentiment like "Fuck Israel" also allows anti semites to reinforce their beliefs. So we either start banning half this forum board in Israeli threads or realize there is a double standard that you and Dhaos are asking for.





Saying Fuck China isn't dogwhistling in a thread where China is greenlighting the slaughter of endangered animals for faux medicines.

Saying "This is expected from the Chinese" is dogwhistling and racism

Saying "Fuck Israel" isn't dogwhistling in a thread where Israel commits acts of violence or theft on palestine.

Saying "What do you expect from Jews (Ethnicity)" is racist and unnaceptable.


Context of a thread matters. Dhaos came to this thread only due to China being in the title. His entire 60 posts are all about China or Asia.
I don't care what Dhaos' post count is. For the Nth time, his post count has no bearing on the validity of his arguments. At least 80% of my posts are related to Asians or Asian American issues in threads focused on Asians. So freaking what. Do you see me quoting wikipedia to back up someone's racist post about the prevalence of eating dogs in China?

And do I really need to go through the history of Taiwan's relationship with the US and China or even the indigenous people of the island? Taiwan has been part of the US's proxy war against Communism since it's inception. It's not even just about this particular thread, but how almost every single thread that mentions China is about how backwards, dystopian, and uncivilized it is. It's a long running pattern. "Fuck China" is problematic at best.

If a Jewish person wants to take up the fight and say that "fuck Israel" is anti-semitic in a thread about Palestine and has a solid reason why, who am I to say that they're wrong? I'm not going to gaslight them or tell them that the conversation can only follow a narrow guideline because it's incongruent with how the majority, whether rightly or wrongly or ignorantly, feels about it. I highly doubt someone would assume that any random Jewish person they meet is a Zionist, but you damn well know that a good number of people wonder if Asians really eat dogs or think they do.

Colonialism isn't some child's toy in a nursery that must be "shared" with everyone "getting their turn", it's a despicable act that destroys cultures, ruins ecosystems and destabilises nations for many, many years to come. Arguing that the West should lend reparations to Africa (and they should, definitely) whilst simultaneously defending China as they do something very close to the same thing is incredibly hypocritical of you. It also doesn't even make logical sense; should we have not "expected" more from colonialist Europe/America because of the many civilisations who had conquered, pillaged and committed genocide before them? At what point does "colonialism is disgusting" end and "ah well, it's just colonialists being colonialists!" begin?

EDIT: Maneil, you should probably calm down. You're not coming across as very level-headed here.
Point out where I said or even hinted that it's China's turn to go full throttle colonialist power. China might be putting some nails in some coffins and putting dirt on others, but those coffins were already in the ground from past colonialism. That is not an excuse, but the reality of the situation...it's historical fact. It's a fact that white european colonialists(and later US ones) are the driving force for the current poverty, pollution, violence, and extinct animals today. It's also pretty worthless to go after the Turks, Greeks, Italians, Moroccans, Huns, Egyptians, Persians, or whichever previous nation-state that is no longer a world power when they have practically nothing they can contribute compared to the US and wealthy european countries. Europe and the US have inherited the spoils of prior colonialism, so what's with the cognitive dissonance with them needing to pay reparations and how it ties into where China's responsibility starts? Despite China becoming a heavier hitter, it's still not the US and China is going to be held responsible for it's own shit show. IF China inherits the spoils of previous colonialism to become the new sole superpower, then we can talk about how they can pick up the tab.
 

Maneil99

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
5,252
I don't care what Dhaos' post count is. For the Nth time, his post count has no bearing on the validity of his arguments. At least 80% of my posts are related to Asians or Asian American issues in threads focused on Asians. So freaking what. Do you see me quoting wikipedia to back up someone's racist post about the prevalence of eating dogs in China?

And do I really need to go through the history of Taiwan's relationship with the US and China or even the indigenous people of the island? Taiwan has been part of the US's proxy war against Communism since it's inception. It's not even just about this particular thread, but how almost every single thread that mentions China is about how backwards, dystopian, and uncivilized it is. It's a long running pattern. "Fuck China" is problematic at best.

If a Jewish person wants to take up the fight and say that "fuck Israel" is anti-semitic in a thread about Palestine and has a solid reason why, who am I to say that they're wrong? I'm not going to gaslight them or tell them that the conversation can only follow a narrow guideline because it's incongruent with how the majority, whether rightly or wrongly or ignorantly, feels about it. I highly doubt someone would assume that any random Jewish person they meet is a Zionist, but you damn well know that a good number of people wonder if Asians really eat dogs or think they do.


Point out where I said or even hinted that it's China's turn to go full throttle colonialist power. China might be putting some nails in some coffins and putting dirt on others, but those coffins were already in the ground from past colonialism. That is not an excuse, but the reality of the situation...it's historical fact. It's a fact that white european colonialists(and later US ones) are the driving force for the current poverty, pollution, violence, and extinct animals today. It's also pretty worthless to go after the Turks, Greeks, Italians, Moroccans, Huns, Egyptians, Persians, or whichever previous nation-state that is no longer a world power when they have practically nothing they can contribute compared to the US and wealthy european countries. Europe and the US have inherited the spoils of prior colonialism, so what's with the cognitive dissonance with them needing to pay reparations and how it ties into where China's responsibility starts? Despite China becoming a heavier hitter, it's still not the US and China is going to be held responsible for it's own shit show. IF China inherits the spoils of previous colonialism to become the new sole superpower, then we can talk about how they can pick up the tab.
its the fact that when China is being called out you feel the need to even bring up that other countries have exploited their world countries. It's a common tool used to downplay, normalize or offload blame
 

Deleted member 907

User requested account closure
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Oct 25, 2017
2,300
its the fact that when China is being called out you feel the need to even bring up that other countries have exploited their world countries. It's a common tool used to downplay, normalize or offload blame
At least I wasn't the one that defended that post about the prevalence of eating dogs by posting the numbers of dogs eaten by Chinese people and throwing insults.

If you want to keep the discussion on a superficial level, that's on you. I'm trying to dig deeper than "Fuck China" because that's just performative white liberalism. If we're going to assign blame, we should do it proportionally. Burning down a forest on protected land is different from chopping down a hundred trees on the same protected land. Both are bad, but one is clearly worse than the other and should be punished accordingly.
 

Plum

Member
May 31, 2018
17,409
Point out where I said or even hinted that it's China's turn to go full throttle colonialist power. China might be putting some nails in some coffins and putting dirt on others, but those coffins were already in the ground from past colonialism. That is not an excuse, but the reality of the situation...it's historical fact. It's a fact that white european colonialists(and later US ones) are the driving force for the current poverty, pollution, violence, and extinct animals today. It's also pretty worthless to go after the Turks, Greeks, Italians, Moroccans, Huns, Egyptians, Persians, or whichever previous nation-state that is no longer a world power when they have practically nothing they can contribute compared to the US and wealthy european countries.

The problem stems from people expecting them to be better than the Western colonialists and clean up the mess that the West left.

Here is where you explicitly said that it's OK for China to be colonialist as we shouldn't "expect better" of them; it implies that, like a child's toy that must be shared around, China should not be criticised for having "their turn" at the colonialist's game. You do so again in the very next sentence by deflecting blame from China's involvement in the extinction of today's species because "the West did more harm!" Yes, they did, but this thread isn't about who did more harm, it's about a specific issue that "the West" has little to do with; if people want to criticise China for it then they should be allowed to do so as, frankly, there is no excuse for what they're doing.

I don't see how it's "worthless" to look at those other countries in the context of deflecting colonialist blame. You argued that China should have no expectations of "being better", and therefore should hold no blame for their actions, due to the colonialist sins of the past. This logic could be applied to those same colonialist sins; why should, for example, Britain have been "expected" to be any better than any other empire that had come before them? The British Empire was created due in part to the country wanting to emulate the continued prominence and wealth enjoyed by the Portugese and Spanish Empires at the time; what difference is there to China wanting to emulate the continued prominence and wealth of the 'American Empire' today? Also, since we're dealing so heavily in whataboutism here what about the USSR/Russia? Why is Russia suddenly exempt "the tab" despite them being one of, if not the most destructive colonialist forces of the 20th century? One that also had similar levels of influence over China in the 20th century as Britain had during the century prior. It can't be because they are currently not as powerful because 1) neither is Britain and 2) they are still very, very powerful.

The thing is, when you start throwing around whataboutisms, you have to be expected to apply that logic fairly. You can't argue one thing for one country and another thing for another; that is unless you have a vested interest in deflecting blame.

Europe and the US have inherited the spoils of prior colonialism, so what's with the cognitive dissonance with them needing to pay reparations and how it ties into where China's responsibility starts? Despite China becoming a heavier hitter, it's still not the US and China is going to be held responsible for it's own shit show. IF China inherits the spoils of previous colonialism to become the new sole superpower, then we can talk about how they can pick up the tab.

What do you mean cognitive dissonance? I was saying that Western reparations for its own colonialism have nothing to do with what China is doing now, and that's true. The sins of the past do not override the sins of the present, you can't use one to deflect blame from another, because if that was a viable strategy then literally no progress could ever be made on anything.

As for the rest; are you honestly arguing that China has no role to play in fixing current environmental issues because they aren't the "sole superpower"? China is a country of over a billion people and it's political sway is rivalled pretty much exclusively by the United States; it should be expected to pick up the tab because, despite your insistence, global climate change is exactly that, global. Talking about global climate change as a if it were a "tab" that needs to be "picked up" instead of a global crisis that will affect literally everyone will get us no where.

Yes, it may not be perfectly "fair" that China has to put in some effort to curb a crisis that was kick-started by forces other than themselves. You know what isn't fair? Dying due to toxic air, being forced to leave your home (or being born without one) due to the encroachment of the sea and the heat, starving due to the failure of crops, and only being able to see animals such as the Rhino and Tiger in history books from before you were born. Climate change isn't something we should be playing games of "who to blame!" over, it's something that we must, globally, do everything we can to solve. Refusing to condemn a nation due to some preconceived notion of "fairness" will do absolutely nothing to help solve it.
 
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Horp

Member
Nov 16, 2017
3,738
I think rhino horn restores mana, right? And also gives a temp buff to bleed resistance. I could use it, sometimes I like to go full elemental.
 
Oct 27, 2017
557
Where does shark fin soup fit on all this. Is that still a thing? Can we justify it with "mah colonizers did it before" as well?