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China & Uighurs: Last Week Tonight with John Oliver

Heshinsi

Heshinsi

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Oct 25, 2017
16,130
If your concern when looking at ethnic cleansing and subjugation of a people is "but what about our economy", then you're a piece of shit. The Western governments are essentially pieces of shit. Not only do they not do anything substantial to make China stop, they won't even stop their corporations from not taking advantage of the situation.
 
Shane

Shane

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,053
Nikus said:
For people who can't watch the vid because of the restriction, try a Youtube video downloader
I use this one, here (it even has an addon for Firefox so that every Youtube vid gets a Download button):

YouTube Downloader - Download YouTube videos in MP3, MP4, 3GP | Y2mate.com

Online download videos from YouTube for FREE to PC, mobile. Supports downloading all formats: MP4, 3GP, WebM, HD videos, convert YouTube to MP3, M4A
www.y2mate.com
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This worked for me, thank you.
 

anamika

Member
May 18, 2018
2,622
A big part of the problem for why a lot of countries are in a debt trap with China is because of US sanctions. Turkey for example supports China because they got a big loan from them after US sanctions. Iran will no doubt get money and infrastructure projects from China and will be beholden to them.

A lot of South Asian countries are now literally owned by China and all they can do is nod their heads to whatever China does. The Middle east countries like Saudi Arabia are corrupt as fuck and have no hesitation throwing fellow muslims under the bus for money and geopolitics. US imperialism was about bombing countries and supporting coups/corrupt dictators, Chinese imperialism is basically using money to buy and own poor countries through their corrupt leaders.

The only powers who can stand up to the CCP are Western countries - US, Europe, Canada, Australia etc. But they won't do anything because capitalism and their companies need that Chinese slave labor.

So nothing will be done. Has anything changed about the Palestine situation? Then why are folks expecting this to be different? World powers don't give a damn or care about the common man in their own countries let alone in someone else's.
 
Neo C.

Neo C.

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Nov 9, 2017
3,041
It was stupid to give China so much power by making it the factory of the world, but fortunately other countries are now much more attractive for several reasons.
 
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OtterMatic

OtterMatic

Member
Oct 25, 2017
881
Last Week Tonight has a episode focused on whataboutism before. This episode and thread are not about that. If the only thing you can think of is "fuck CCP" or worse, "fuck China," please just don't reply. This is not about the country or the government themselves but the ACTUAL treatment of Uighurs facing from CCP. Piling on CCP didn't help the situation or the discussion, and it will not gonna work. Echoing "CCP is bad" doesn't help the situation, but undermine it.
 

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BringBackSonics said:
Seems like they are at least trying to hit them back with moving some of its manufacturing out of China.

thediplomat.com

Indonesia Seeks to Win US and Japanese Investment Fleeing China

Jakarta scrambles to capture U.S. and Japanese corporate relocations out of China as geopolitical and coronavirus pandemic concerns intensify
thediplomat.com
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They're moving to Vietnam, too. And many other countries as well. This has been happening for a while, albeit more cause production costs are actually lower in other countries these days, than they are in China. But now american corps also have an incentive to do it for the sake of "good PR," even though all of us here know their motivations aren't the least bit benevolent.

Whatever. As long as Xinnie the Pooh's genocidal regime is forced to loosen the vice it's got tightened around everyone else's balls. Decentralizing production by moving from China to multiple other countries is the single best way to accomplish this. Because as long as so much of our shit is made by enslaved Uyghurs, nothing is going to change. Far too many individuals in affluent are currently willing to cut down on any of their consumption. And regardless, we're ALL complicity in this to an extent, since I guarantee you there is not a single person here who hasn't unknowingly bought something that was made by an Uyghur slaving away inside one of China's factories.
 
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BringBackSonics

BringBackSonics

Member
Oct 27, 2017
45,856
Seattle
CyclonatorZ said:
Vietnam, too. And many other countries as well. This has been happening for a while, albeit more cause production costs are actually lower in other countries now than they are in China. But now american Corps also have an incentive to do it for the sake of "good PR," even though all of us here know their motivations aren't the least bit benevolent.

Whatever. As long as Xinnie the Pooh's genocidal regime is forced to loosen the vice it's got tightened around everyone else's balls. Decentralizing production by moving from China to multiple other countries is the single best way to accomplish this. Because as long as so much of our shit is made by enslaved Uyghurs, nothing is going to change. Far too many individuals in affluent are currently willing to cut down on any of their consumption. And regardless, we're ALL complicity in this to an extent, since I guarantee you there is not a single person here who hasn't unknowingly bought something that was made by an Uyghur slaving away inside one of China's factories.
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Yeah, I'm under no illusion that companies are doing this out of the goodness of their own heart. But if this gets mainstream enough along with the other things that forces companies to shift production, I'm all for it.
 

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OtterMatic said:
Last Week Tonight has a episode focused on whataboutism before. This episode and thread are not about that. If the only thing you can think of is "fuck CCP" or worse, "fuck China," please just don't reply. This is not about the country or the government themselves but the ACTUAL treatment of Uighurs facing from CCP. Piling on CCP didn't help the situation or the discussion, and it will not gonna work. Echoing "CCP is bad" doesn't help the situation, but undermine it.
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The problem about discourse on ongoing genocide in a world superpower (or, hell, any state really. see, e.g., Rwanda) is there's not much discourse to be had until powers-that-be act.

It's horrific. It's inhumane. It's a deafening echo of Nazi Germany right before mass extermination. It's indefensible, for what should be obvious reasons, and thus there is no discussion with another side.

The nation-state enacting the genocide, China, doesn't care. Nation-states around the world don't care to an extent that would lead to stopping, slowing, or perhaps even acknowledging this for what it is. There's no policies proposed, no actions of significance being considered or undertaken, to discuss.

"Fuck ____" is a dumb response to most things, and it's got no real value here beyond a person making known their displeasure at what's going on, but whether stated in two words or two thousand, there's not much to discuss that transcends the sentiments in "fuck ____".

As annoying as it is to read "fuck ____" in most topics, sometimes it's an immature response from an immature mind unwilling to engage a topic beyond a visceral reaction, but other times it's a person's tacit acknowledgment of powerlessness, disgust, and resignation.

This isn't even a defense of the lack of discourse, it's just my own powerless, resigned acknowledgment of why there isn't much more to say.
 
julian

julian

Member
Oct 27, 2017
17,159
Neo C. said:
Fuck Chinese whataboutism. It's widespreaded af in Chinese communities.
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As somebody with a lot of Chinese coworkers....yeeeeaaaah, and don't forget the straw men! I brought up the Uighur situation once and got an earful about "radicalized terrorists". John goes into it in the clip. Just depressing all around. I'm glad some companies are moving manufacturing out of China but it feels more like a response to Covid shutting them down for a little rather than any desire to avoid slave labor. I'm not even sure what avoiding Uighur labor would improve. China still wants to ethnically cleanse them. There's no indication it's just an excuse for cheap labor, just good ol' fashioned deep-seated racism. Not saying it shouldn't be avoided, just pointing out the depressing reality that it will not lessen their suffering. And now I've depressed myself...
 

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My rambling here made me recall designing a lesson plan back in college, and this was the mid-2000s, around intra-state ethnic conflict for a Model UN program. I proposed four case studies for the students to engage with as mock UN delegates: Xinjiang, South Sudan, Sri Lanka, and Chechnya. The goal was to have the kids wrestle with how the international community could realistically address "ethnic conflict" (a euphemism I didn't enjoy having to use...) when it's entirely within a sovereign state's borders, meaning it never became an interstate hot war that more easily justifies intervention.

I put a lot of effort into the educational materials.

The proposal to include Xinjiang in the briefing materials got rejected. "The kids will wind up wasting their time on this topic because there's no way to address what's happening there". Wonderful lesson for the youth (of that day).
 
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OtterMatic

OtterMatic

Member
Oct 25, 2017
881
cagey said:
The problem about discourse on ongoing genocide in a world superpower (or, hell, any state really. see, e.g., Rwanda) is there's not much discourse to be had until powers-that-be act.

It's horrific. It's inhumane. It's a deafening echo of Nazi Germany right before mass extermination. It's indefensible, for what should be obvious reasons, and thus there is no discussion with another side.

The nation-state enacting the genocide, China, doesn't care. Nation-states around the world don't care to an extent that would lead to stopping, slowing, or perhaps even acknowledging this for what it is. There's no policies proposed, no actions of significance being considered or undertaken, to discuss.

"Fuck ____" is a dumb response to most things, and it's got no real value here beyond a person making known their displeasure at what's going on, but whether stated in two words or two thousand, there's not much to discuss that transcends the sentiments in "fuck ____".

As annoying as it is to read "fuck ____" in most topics, sometimes it's an immature response from an immature mind unwilling to engage a topic beyond a visceral reaction, but other times it's a person's tacit acknowledgment of powerlessness, disgust, and resignation.

This isn't even a defense of the lack of discourse, it's just my own powerless, resigned acknowledgment of why there isn't much more to say.
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I am not saying that we should discuss the other side. That was not the point. This is a humanity crisis. Period. The discussion should be focused on what the other governments, NGOs, and individuals should do.

I understand how "fuck China" can be an expression of frustration from the poster but I am asking people to understand how people with Chinese heritage can feel unpleasant about that. They didn't have a choice on the Chinese government and that CCP and their actions are not an actual, complete representation of China and Chinese culture. CCP doesn't equal to China and vice versa. I mention "Fuck ___" as a response undermines the actual pain of Uighurs because that reduce their pain to a word and focused on CCP. "Fuck CCP" can be used as a response in a lot of Chinese government related situation. Grouping every thing into under "CCP is bad" is not doing any good to all those communities (e.g. Uighurs and Hong Kong). Their pains are real and legit, and they are not for people to leave a drive-by message to feel good about themselves.
 
Huey

Huey

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,543
awesome, will watch this tonight. John Oliver is basically the only new show I watch these days

We need more games and tech journalists interested in reporting on big tech's complicity in the CCP enslavement of Uighur muslims now. In some sense we are all complicit if we support them, unless they stop. jschreier?
 

Deleted member 8257

Oct 26, 2017
24,586
Oh God the little girl wiping away the tears. I could feel that sinking in my heart and tears welling...

Edit: removed.
 
Barrel Cannon

Barrel Cannon

It's Pronounced "Aerith"
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
9,521
By letting this shit happen China is no better than the old Nazi Germany, and the fact that the rest of the world is willing to watch and not do anything about it because it effects them just fucking sucks
 
kmfdmpig

kmfdmpig

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
19,740
OtterMatic said:
I am not saying that we should discuss the other side. That was not the point. This is a humanity crisis. Period. The discussion should be focused on what the other governments, NGOs, and individuals should do.

I understand how "fuck China" can be an expression of frustration from the poster but I am asking people to understand how people with Chinese heritage can feel unpleasant about that. They didn't have a choice on the Chinese government and that CCP and their actions are not an actual, complete representation of China and Chinese culture. CCP doesn't equal to China and vice versa. I mention "Fuck ___" as a response undermines the actual pain of Uighurs because that reduce their pain to a word and focused on CCP. "Fuck CCP" can be used as a response in a lot of Chinese government related situation. Grouping every thing into under "CCP is bad" is not doing any good to all those communities (e.g. Uighurs and Hong Kong). Their pains are real and legit, and they are not for people to leave a drive-by message to feel good about themselves.
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I get what you're saying, but the sad reality is that the CCP has more power than any group in the world to stop what they're doing. Waiting for an individual, other government, or NGO to fix this will mean waiting until the sun burns out. Pressure on the government of China is the only solution and that only happens when more people get to the point where they think "fuck the CCP" and therefore push their own governments and the companies they buy from to stop giving the CCP a pass for this type of behavior. I'm not optimistic that we'll see that any time soon, however. I do think that the aggressiveness of the CCP in the last year or two has accelerated the rate at which other countries see the government in a negative light, so I guess we'll see how that plays out over the next few years.
 
Moff

Moff

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Oct 26, 2017
4,883
great stuff, he is right about everything. I don't understand why this is not a bigger deal in the news so there is more pressure on governments.
 

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kmfdmpig said:
I get what you're saying, but the sad reality is that the CCP has more power than any group in the world to stop what they're doing. Waiting for an individual, other government, or NGO to fix this will mean waiting until the sun burns out. Pressure on the government of China is the only solution and that only happens when more people get to the point where they think "fuck the CCP" and therefore push their own governments and the companies they buy from to stop giving the CCP a pass for this type of behavior. I'm not optimistic that we'll see that any time soon, however. I do think that the aggressiveness of the CCP in the last year or two has accelerated the rate at which other countries see the government in a negative light, so I guess we'll see how that plays out over the next few years.
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Apart from internal strife or sea changes, the only external pressure that could produce tangible results is the international community turning China into a pariah, like what eventually happened with South Africa during apartheid.

But South Africa had a fraction of the economic and manufacturing power that China has, South Africa was a regional power in a weak, impoverished region whereas China is, at worst, a regional hegemon in an area with some incredibly wealthy nation-states (ROK, Japan), etc. The level of disinvestment, in raw dollars, required to equal the hit South Africa's regime took (percentage-wise) in the 80s would be mind boggling. Who knows how many trillions -- trillions with a T.

Just my marginally educated on the topic from college lay person's opinion, but one major reason why this, this being China's literal genocide of the Uighurs, isn't talked about much is the lack of information. In 2020, keeping anything under wraps is an alien concept to most of the world. The Chinese government's control over information disseminated inside its borders, or leaving its borders, is stunning. Even if they're getting more aggressive in their actions in and around Xinjiang, we're getting 1/1000th the amount of information we'd get from atrocities happening in other countries that lack the sophistication and all-encompassing oversight China maintains over information flow.
 
GungHo

GungHo

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Nov 27, 2017
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so1337 said:
But I'm especially disgusted by the VW CEO feigning ignorance when asked about China's treatment of the Uighurs. You're German. You're supposed to be the ones standing up to shit like this.
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It's not simply a matter of being German. Their corporation has committed this crime before and made a show of transparency and atonement.
 
so1337

so1337

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Oct 28, 2017
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GungHo said:
It's not simply a matter of being German. Their corporation has committed this crime before and made a show of transparency and atonement.
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That's exactly what I meant though. Atoning for the sins of your ancestors and making sure it doesn't happen again Is supposed to be ingrained in German culture. The CCP is committing crimes against humanity that are eerily reminiscent of the early stages of the holocaust and this guy ignores it and lies about it. It's unfathomable.
 
Helix

Helix

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Jun 8, 2019
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The CCP using Whataboutism is not news actually considering the fact that it's a propaganda tool that was fully harnessed by the Soviets. and it is a dangerous tool that crushes vaild facts by pointing you to phony bullshit and I can't stand that more people are not realizing this crap. Showing that the other side does it worse of different doesn't excuse you from your own shit.
 
Crimsonskies

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easter

easter

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Nov 15, 2017
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Drive by comment for visibility. Sorry in advance. This needs to be spread endlessly.
 
FF Seraphim

FF Seraphim

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Oct 26, 2017
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Kilic95 said:
All the apparel brands and retailers involved with Uighur forced labor:
  • Abercrombie & Fitch
  • adidas
  • Amazon
  • Badger Sport (Founder Sport Group)
  • C&A (Cofra Holding AG)
  • Calvin Klein (PVH)
  • Carter's
  • Cerruti 1881 (Trinity Limited)
  • Costco
  • Cotton On
  • Dangerfield (Factory X Pty Ltd)
  • Esprit (Esprit Holdings Ltd.)
  • Fila (FILA KOREA Ltd)
  • Gap
  • H&M
  • Hart Schaffner Marx (Authentic Brands Group)
  • Ikea (Inter IKEA Systems B.V.)
  • Jack & Jones (Bestseller)
  • Jeanswest (Harbour Guidance Pty Ltd)
  • L.L.Bean
  • Lacoste (Maus Freres)
  • Li-Ning
  • Marks & Spencer
  • Mayor
  • Muji (Ryohin Keikaku Co., Ltd.)
  • Nike
  • Patagonia
  • Polo Ralph Lauren (Ralph Lauren Corporation)
  • Puma
  • Skechers
  • Summit Resource International (Caterpillar)
  • Target Australia (Wesfarmers)
  • Tommy Hilfiger (PVH)
  • Uniqlo (Fast Retailing)
  • Victoria's Secret (L Brands)
  • Woolworths (Woolworth Corporation, LLC.)
  • Zara (Inditex)
  • Zegna
uhrp.org

PRESS RELEASE: 180+ Orgs Demand Apparel Brands End Complicity in Uyghur Forced Labour

Today, 72 Uyghur rights groups are joined by over 100 civil society organisations and labour unions from around the world in calling on apparel brands and retailers to stop using forced labour in the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region (“Uyghur Region”), known to local people as East Turkistan...
uhrp.org uhrp.org
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Got to spread the word: if you wear this stuff you're an asshole if you know that people sre forced to work on the clothes you wear.
 
Proc

Proc

Member
Oct 25, 2017
775
I just saw this last night. Is there anything more we can do? I'm definitely boycotting those brands. I'm disappointed that my Canadian government isn't doing more on this issue. Its very reminecent of Nazi Germany and it needs to stop now.
 
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