Christian photographer told she can’t refuse gay weddings as lawsuit crashes and burns

[Lightning Count]

Christian photographer told she can't refuse gay weddings as lawsuit crashes and burns

A Christian wedding photographer who sued the state of New York rather than take photos at gay weddings has lost her case.

www.pinknews.co.uk

A Christian wedding photographer who sued the state of New York rather than take photos at gay weddings has lost her case.

Emilee Carpenter filed a federal lawsuit in April, arguing that state's non-discrimination laws violated her First and Fourteenth Amendment rights because she "believes that God created marriage to be a joyful, exclusive union between one man and one woman".

The photographer claimed she was forced to choose between going against her religious beliefs by photographing gay weddings or paying fines of up to $100,000 for breaking the law.

On 13 December, US District Judge Frank P Geraci Jr of Western New York dismissed her case, saying that "the court is not persuaded", according to NBC News.

"The crux of plaintiff's claims is that her photography is the product of her unique artistic style and vision. Thus, an exemption for Plaintiff's unique, non-fungible services would necessarily undermine, not serve, the state's purpose, as it would 'relegate [same-sex couples] to an inferior market' than that enjoyed by the public at large," Geraci ruled.

Carpenter had argued in the lawsuit that she didn't want to take photos that might depict a marriage in a "negative way" or promote any special occasions between "same-sex or polygamous" couples. She also argued she "would not provide wedding photography" for "irreverent themed weddings" – like "Halloween or vampire-themed weddings" – because she believes weddings are "inherently religious and solemn events".

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I'm glad this lawsuit failed, I'm sick of bigots hiding behind religion and using this as a reason to discriminate against LGBT people.

We just want to live our lives the way we want without being subjected to lesser opportunities, second rate services and hate. Weaponising faith against us is unacceptable, you can be religious and not be a bigot.

 

[DiipuSurotu]

On the one hand, good.

On the other hand, if I were the gay couple I wouldn't trust her bigoted ass to take good photos of my gay wedding... She could be taking shitty pics on purpose out of resentment.

 

[astro]

Can she not just refuse a job and simply not say why? She has no obligation to work for anyone, she could just keep quiet and this would never even be known as an issue.

Of course, these people's inability to remain quiet is an inherent part of their bigotry. Just can't leave people alone to live their lives.

 

[WascallyWabbit]

How hard would it have been to just turn down the jobs and not give this as a reason? Sheesh
Good ruling though

 

[Deleted member 93841]

On the other hand, if I were the gay couple I wouldn't trust her bigoted ass to take good photos of my gay wedding... She could be taking shitty pics on purpose out of resentment.

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This is what I'm always torn about. That companies providing a service should not be allowed to discriminate is non-negotiable, but I would hate to have a homophobe take photos at my wedding.

 

[Darkgran]

She also argued she "would not provide wedding photography" for "irreverent themed weddings" – like "Halloween or vampire-themed weddings" – because she believes weddings are "inherently religious and solemn events".

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LMAO. Fuck this person.

 

[jeelybeans]

Why are non discrimination laws applicable here in the first place? I can't imagine a gay couple wanting a homophobe be forced to take photos at their wedding...

The laws should be in place but I am wondering if I am missing something here. Was this a state contract or something?

 

[illmatic22]

Womp womp

 

[Avik-G]

Why would you ever want someone like that at your wedding anyway. Fuck em.

How hard would it have been to just turn down the jobs and not give this as a reason? Sheesh
Good ruling though

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That is what she did though -

The case said Carpenter received "at least seven requests" to photograph same-sex weddings in a year, but "declined these requests by not responding to them".

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[Slayven]

non-fungible services

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nice

 

[Mesoian]

Can she not just refuse a job and simply not say why? She has no obligation to work for anyone, she could just keep quiet and this would never even be known as an issue.

Of course, these people's inability to remain quiet is an inherent part of their bigotry. Just can't leave people alone to live their lives.

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She could have, but she wanted to fuck around.

And she found out.

 

[Deleted member 93841]

Can she not just refuse a job and simply not say why? She has no obligation to work for anyone, she could just keep quiet and this would never even be known as an issue.

Of course, these people's inability to remain quiet is an inherent part of their bigotry. Just can't leave people alone to live their lives.

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It's a persecution fetish. We got news articles like this all the time in South Africa, usually about venues refusing same-sex couples service, and they were always up-front about the reason because it brings them attention and nothing riles up the conservatives more than a Good Christian Venue being "persecuted" by The Gays™ for sticking to their religious beliefs.

Unfortunately it drums up business from people trying to stick it to The Gays™.

 

[NinjaScooter]

This is what I'm always torn about. That companies providing a service should not be allowed to discriminate is non-negotiable, but I would hate to have a homophobe take photos at my wedding.

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The point is not that the people suing so badly wants a homophobe to photograph their wedding, the point is to prove that she is violating the law.

Can she not just refuse a job and simply not say why? She has no obligation to work for anyone, she could just keep quiet and this would never even be known as an issue.

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A photographer turning down a wedding would be strange. Do it enough times and I'm sure the subjects of that rejection might start wondering if they all have something in common (especially int he social media age where they can share their experiences.)

 

[DrForester]

Wouldn't this just get overturned by the Supreme Court? How is this any different than that wedding cake case from a decade ago?

Edit: make it clear, I don't agree with that decision.

 

[kyle mechlachlan]

regardless if the couples want to service or not, a person running a business is not allowed to deny service based on if a person's gay. it's literally illegal. people saw a trend and reported her.

 

[thesoapster]

It is artistic expression, and I view her work as a professional contract. She's a piece of shit, but this feels like overreach to me.

 

[Deleted member 13798]

Edit: So apparently she did just ignore the requests and didn't give a reason, I'm not really sure what the grounds are for suing her then? I guess once it got taken to court you have to say some thing about your reasons? I don't know, there's a lot of really weird missing pieces here.

I'm all for reprimanding discrimination but if someone just doesn't take a job and doesn't really talk about why I don't see the connection between being sued for discriminating against gay couples if that wasn't a stated reason- though I do think her attempt to draw a connection to other types of weddings she won't do such as Halloween, and presumably Pokémon themed weddings isn't at all the same.

 

[astro]

The point is not that the people suing so badly wants a homophobe to photograph their wedding, the point is to prove that she is violating the law.



A photographer turning down a wedding would be strange. Do it enough times and I'm sure the subjects of that rejection might start wondering if they all have something in common (especially int he social media age where they can share their experiences.)

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I doubt the subjects would ever know of each other, though.

 

[Deleted member 93841]

The point is not that the people suing so badly wants a homophobe to photograph their wedding, the point is to prove that she is violating the law.

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Yeah, no arguments from me. Like I said, if you offer a service to the public, it's non-negotiable that you can't discriminate.

 

[Loudninja]

You would think you would want all the business you can get. But I guess being a bigot is more important.

 

[NinjaScooter]

I doubt the subjects would ever know of each other, though.

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You never know. Through sites like Yelp you often see people share these kinds of experiences. Enough people saying "Hey its weird when she found out we were gay she suddenly got too busy" and you got yourself a lawsuit.

 

[kyle mechlachlan]

It is artistic expression, and I view her work as a professional contract. She's a piece of shit, but this feels like overreach to me.

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she's running a business and business can't discriminate according to the law.

 

[RiOrius]

She could have, but she wanted to fuck around.

And she found out.

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But she only found out to the tune of legal fees (and whatever repercussions there are from having the story out in the news, which could end up net positive if it gets her name out to "her people" as someone fighting the good fight against the Gay Agenda and it drums up more business or whatever).

It sounds like she was never actually on the hook for the discrimination she's been doing, and there's no indication the judge pulled an Uno reverse and said "well now that you've admitted it, let's meet up again tomorrow with you in the defendant's seat and talk about these fines you think you're liable for."

 

[Z-Beat]

LMAO. Fuck this person.

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Ah yes, the only true way to defeat a gay person is to stake their heart, fill their mouth with garlic and sew it shut, then bury their head separate from their body. Everyone knows that

 

[WascallyWabbit]

Why would you ever want someone like that at your wedding anyway. Fuck em.



That is what she did though -

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That's what I'm saying, all you had to do was turn em down and continue living your bigot life, why waste all this time for this shit

 

[thesoapster]

she's running a business and business can't discriminate according to the law.

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Yeah, I know. I see that side. But does that mean she is compelled into contract for a creative work? She's not building them a new kitchen or selling them a house.

 

[Deleted member 93841]

Yeah, I know. I see that side. But does that mean she is compelled into contract for a creative work? She's not building them a new kitchen or selling them a house.

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Why does it matter that it's "creative work"? She's not doing it out of the kindness of her heart, she's doing it to make money.

 

[Squarehard]

Photographer: "I'm an artist!"

Courts: "No you're not."

 

[Loudninja]

Yeah, I know. I see that side. But does that mean she is compelled into contract for a creative work? She's not building them a new kitchen or selling them a house.

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Huh? do you not understand that you cant discriminate like this while running a business?

 

[NinjaScooter]

Yeah, I know. I see that side. But does that mean she is compelled into contract for a creative work? She's not building them a new kitchen or selling them a house.

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If you are a business then yes you should be "compelled" into not violating people's civil rights or discriminating against them because of their race/gender/sexual orientation/ect...For those purposes she's no more an "artist" than the person who who retiles someone's floor.

 

[thesoapster]

Why does it matter that it's "creative work"? She's not doing it out of the kindness of her heart, she's doing it to make money.

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Well when these fucks cry about it, they usually say creative works are a form of their speech, right?

 

[astro]

Yeah, I know. I see that side. But does that mean she is compelled into contract for a creative work? She's not building them a new kitchen or selling them a house.

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She doesn't have to take any job, she just can't discriminate. It's pretty simple.

She could pretty easily just keep quite and say she is too busy.

 

[Rosebud]

I wouldn't want that woman anywhere near my wedding tbh, but the lawsuit is a good thing

 

[medinaria]

Edit: So apparently she did just ignore the requests and didn't give a reason, I'm not really sure what the grounds are for suing her then? I guess once it got taken to court you have to say some thing about your reasons? I don't know, there's a lot of really weird missing pieces here.

I'm all for reprimanding discrimination but if someone just doesn't take a job and doesn't really talk about why I don't see the connection between being sued for discriminating against gay couples if that wasn't a stated reason- though I do think her attempt to draw a connection to other types of weddings she won't do such as Halloween, and presumably Pokémon themed weddings isn't at all the same.

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the problem is that she essentially admitted in her suit that she's doing it for discriminatory purposes and thinks the law ought to allow her to be explicitly discriminatory in advertising etc.

By her own admission, Plaintiff is currently refusing requests to photograph same-sex weddings, while acknowledging that New York's public-accommodation laws prohibit her from doing so. In the last year, Plaintiff has received seven requests for same-sex weddings, and she Case 6:21-cv-06303-FPG Document 68 Filed 12/13/21 Page 7 of 46 8 has effectively declined those requests by not responding to them. See ECF No. 1 ¶¶ 266-67. Furthermore, based on her understanding of these laws, Plaintiff has yet to take some actions related to her business that she would have taken absent these laws. See id. ¶¶ 123-25. For example, Plaintiff would like to amend her LLC's operating agreement to prohibit it from providing wedding photography services to same-sex couples. She would like to do overtly what she is currently doing surreptitiously: screen prospective clients to ensure that she does not agree to photograph a same-sex wedding. And she would like to explicitly advertise her business's limitations on her website, through social media, and with prospective clients directly.

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this is a lawsuit that she brought against the state - she was not the one being sued. at no point has she faced criminal charges or really even had this brought up to her - she's not being sued by any of her declined customers. she's suing because "she does not respond to same-sex engagement or wedding requests for fear of being sued under New York's laws". it's an entirely manufactured issue where she claims that there is some theoretical thing she is unable to do out of fear of reprisal under the law that she has never actually experienced

Emilee also read news reports about other artists, like photographers, and other business owners in New York and elsewhere who were being sued and threatened with severe penalties for declining to celebrate or participate in samesex wedding ceremonies.

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like, her just... not taking gay clients hasn't gotten her in any trouble here, the lawsuit arose because she wanted to get this law overturned and become an explicitly anti-gay photography service

 

[Dice]

She also argued she "would not provide wedding photography" for "irreverent themed weddings" – like "Halloween or vampire-themed weddings" – because she believes weddings are "inherently religious and solemn events".

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LMAO. Fuck this person.

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Right? Hardly what any state would see it as; it's just a document.

I can't imagine religions approving the Final Fantasy 14 wedding of my dreams! :P

 

[Lightning Count]

She doesn't have to take any job, she just can't discriminate. It's pretty simple.

She could pretty easily just keep quite and say she is too busy.

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But the same problem would just repeat itself if she keeps making excuses not to serve gay people. The pattern would be spotted pretty quickly.

 

[Tobor]

Edit: So apparently she did just ignore the requests and didn't give a reason, I'm not really sure what the grounds are for suing her then? I guess once it got taken to court you have to say some thing about your reasons? I don't know, there's a lot of really weird missing pieces here.

I'm all for reprimanding discrimination but if someone just doesn't take a job and doesn't really talk about why I don't see the connection between being sued for discriminating against gay couples if that wasn't a stated reason- though I do think her attempt to draw a connection to other types of weddings she won't do such as Halloween, and presumably Pokémon themed weddings isn't at all the same.

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She wasn't sued. She's the Plaintiff.

All she had to do was keep her bigoted mouth shut. She instead filed the suit to try and make it legal to discriminate.

 

[NinjaScooter]

She wasn't sued. She's the Plaintiff.

All she had to do was keep her bigoted mouth shut. She instead filed the suit to try and make it legal to discriminate.

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wonder If this makes it open season on her ass lol

 

[Tobor]

wonder If this makes it open season on her ass lol

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If there is any justice, that's exactly what will happen. Now when she ghosts potential Gay clients, everyone will know why.

 

[thesoapster]

But the same problem would just repeat itself if she keeps making excuses not to serve gay people. The pattern would be spotted pretty quickly.

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I wonder if she markets her services as Christian. The no themed weddings thing is... special.

 

[Squarehard]

Edit: So apparently she did just ignore the requests and didn't give a reason, I'm not really sure what the grounds are for suing her then? I guess once it got taken to court you have to say some thing about your reasons? I don't know, there's a lot of really weird missing pieces here.

I'm all for reprimanding discrimination but if someone just doesn't take a job and doesn't really talk about why I don't see the connection between being sued for discriminating against gay couples if that wasn't a stated reason- though I do think her attempt to draw a connection to other types of weddings she won't do such as Halloween, and presumably Pokémon themed weddings isn't at all the same.

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She sued the state because she didn't take the jobs due to possible fines that she is a bigot, thus, putting "hardships" on herself for not being paid for those jobs she didn't take, so she wanted the state to give her money in return for her not working.

Are those missing pieces filled in now? ;)

 

[astro]

But the same problem would just repeat itself if she keeps making excuses not to serve gay people. The pattern would be spotted pretty quickly.

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I honestly doubt it would. The chance someone leaves a review if someone just says "sorry, too busy atm hope it goes well!" is almost 0, the people who she turns down will almost certainly never learn of each other.

 

[LewieP]

This isn't because they are Christian, it's because they are a bigot.

 

[Lightning Count]

I wonder if she markets her services as Christian. The no themed weddings thing is... special.

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It's entirely she might based on the number of things she cites as a basis for refusing services.

 

[Captain Tuttle]

She sued the state because she didn't take the jobs due to possible fines that she is a bigot, thus, putting "hardships" on herself for not being paid for those jobs she didn't take, so she wanted the state to give her money in return for her not working.

Are those missing pieces filled in now? ;)

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You're right and the argument is ridiculous. This smells like one of those lawsuits designed to be appealed and eventually work its way to the Supreme Court. Conservatives have gotten really good at this over the last couple of decades

 

[Aselith]

She wasn't sued. She's the Plaintiff.

All she had to do was keep her bigoted mouth shut. She instead filed the suit to try and make it legal to discriminate.

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lol, what a self-own

 

[Loudninja]

She wasn't sued. She's the Plaintiff.

All she had to do was keep her bigoted mouth shut. She instead filed the suit to try and make it legal to discriminate.

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How stupid can you be to try something like that.

 

[meowdi gras]

Glad to see people ITT ok with for-profit businesses exercising discrimination against a persecuted minority because they're "artists". Let the free market decide, amirite?

 

[Zyae]

Yeah, I know. I see that side. But does that mean she is compelled into contract for a creative work? She's not building them a new kitchen or selling them a house.

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you cant not provide a service to someone because they are gay, its constitutional law.

 

[Lightning Count]

How stupid can you be to try something like that.

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As it was pointed out by another poster, this will almost certainly be appealed, they might aim deliberately to get this sent up to the supreme court so they can argue on the basis of "religious freedom".

It's a dirty tactic but it's also one right wingers have been successful with.