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Weiss

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
64,265
When Chrono Cross is brought up there's a bit of an air of attempted compromise; it's good on its own merits, but they really shouldn't have gone and killed Crono and friends like that. That used to be how I took it, where Chrono Cross existing as a game set in the same universe that excised everything after the death of the Dragon God would have made for a better game, because that info dump at the end was rank. Just make it about the war between FATE and the Dragon Gods with Serge caught up in the middle and getting turned into his dad's fursona.

As I am now making this thread, I have long since disabused myself of that notion. Chrono Cross is absolute ass, but it's a remarkably pretty ass with a soundtrack that other people like a whole lot but is too encumbered with that common battle theme for me to agree. It's also a legendary failure of gameplay even by the standards of PS1 RPGs and has a fanbase that tries to convince you it's totally fine for the 2/3rds of the cast to be the lamest goobers to engage in a turn-based battle, because idk Glenn's rad enough to excuse everyone else.

Despite this, Chrono Cross remains a game I will absolutely cape for its right to exist because it had the balls to ask a question more RPG sequels should try: What if it didn't work out?

The time traveling romp of Crono and friends is now the greatest threat to the universe and, explicitly, doomed entire universes to extinction as they jumped back and forth trying to get the mayor of Porre's Sun Stone. Lavos is back because their meddling sent him to the Darkness Beyond Time so now he's gone from eating planets to eating reality itself, not that they were there to see it: Comic relief villain Dalton slipped through time until he landed in Porre, whereupon he turned it into a fascistic military that lays waste to Guardia and steals the Masamune, and meanwhile Lucca's playing nice with the invading military that definitely murdered her best friends because hey, still got bills to pay. Robo lasts the longest, getting annihilated by FATE when given the chance in what's almost explicitly just there to be a dick punch for the audience.

This rules, and it's at the crux of why I think Chrono Cross deserves that oft-abused title of "brave" that gets erroneously applied to stuff like the remake of most beloved JRPG of all time, Final Fantasy VII; Crono's journey is just a stepping stone, and it's one that made things worse in the short term because he (and you, the player) had a grand ol' bit of fun adventuring through time that turned out to be the direct cause of every bad thing happening here. It's a story that weaponizes your love of Chrono Trigger against you, doing that thing video games never allow themselves to inflict upon the audience: meaningful consequence at the expense of something you already loved.

An important thing to understand at the end of this is that canon is irrelevant and imaginary. Chrono Cross does not exist unless you make a game at the expense of Chrono Trigger's happy ending, and that's a good thing that's only bad if being the canon sequel to Chrono Trigger is all that matters, and not a story about the textual failures of past heroes as they meddled with forces beyond their comprehension. Chrono Cross has to stick you with a big Kick Me sign on your back for having fun with your rad SNES RPG, and if it means killing off Crono to do it, well, that's fine. You can still play Chrono Trigger and end it with him sailing off into the horizon on the Epoch, that ending ain't going anywhere.
 
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Lulu

Saw the truth behind the copied door
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
26,680
It's an ok game and a questionable sequel. Some stuff works but a lot doesn't
 

Freezasaurus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
57,013
It's a bad game and a horrendous sequels

It's a fantastic game and the best possible sequel.

logo.png
 

Lothar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,534
A terrible game and not a good sequel either but it could have been if the story was told better. It had interesting ideas but just felt so rushed. It felt like they came up with the story in the last day of development and ran out of time to decide when to put it so just put it in 30 min text dumps
 

Keldroc

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,989
The soundtrack is the only thing that lived up to Chrono Trigger for me.

Bad game.
Bad sequel.

There it is. The truth comes out eventually.

Chrono Cross is just absolute garbage other than the music. I'm very curious how many people who played it as kids are about to have a bucket of ice water poured over their nostalgia flame for it. Mostly I expect it will be denial and doubling down, but some hard lessons about revisiting the past are about to be had, I predict. Which really is pretty thematically on point when you think about it.
 

Freezasaurus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
57,013
I loved Chrono Cross when it came out. Admittedly, I haven't played it since so I don't know how it holds up, but the soundtrack is one of the GOAT soundtracks in my book.
 

RochHoch

One Winged Slayer
Member
May 22, 2018
18,926
I inherently dislike sequels that feel the need to shit on the previous entry's ending

Chrono Trigger had a happy ending, let it have that. Cross can fuck off.
 

mael

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
16,826
There's so many endings in Chrono Trigger that whatever canon ending would be feels kinda irrelevant.
A sequel based on using the previous game as target practice is....I dunno how to feel about that.
If it makes sense I don't see a problem I guess.
 

Plinko

Member
Oct 28, 2017
18,584
Best RPG battle system.
Best video game OST of all time.
Beautiful artwork.
Good story.

It's a great game. Boo to all of you. Boo!
 

chandoog

Member
Oct 27, 2017
20,074
Chrono Cross is an amazing game and a great 'dark middle chapter' for the franchise, which sadly never got a redemptive third game.
 

Scarlett

Member
Dec 5, 2020
1,138
Many of my younger friends who love CC never played CT until later, if at all.

I dunno what that means.
 

Nairume

SaGa Sage
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,944
I will agree and disagree with you, because I think it's a great game AND a great sequel
 

hamghost

Member
Sep 1, 2019
271
An amazing game, and a bold sequel that wasn't afraid to take risks or not treat the source material as sacrosanct which I've always really respected.
I inherently dislike sequels that feel the need to shit on the previous entry's ending

Chrono Trigger had a happy ending, let it have that. Cross can fuck off.
The thing about it is, you're absolutely right - Chrono Trigger had a happy ending, and the CT characters' fates as indicated in CC aren't necessarily the only ones that happened. That's the genius of following things up with a big ball of parallel timelines, all good and bad endings to CT happened out there somewhere and who's to say how everything settled after the ending of CC?
 

HadesHotgun

Member
Oct 25, 2017
871
They didn't kill Crono and friends. That's just fan conjecture and it's pretty funny given that Crono does actually get killed... in Chrono Trigger.

Also Kato discussed the premise for Chrono Reflect which would be the third game and it features Crono and friends prominently so...

People need to move beyond bullshit they read on the internet 20 years ago and look at the actual work and listen to the people who made it before going all in on dumb fan theories.


Also they did actually "kill" one character in Cross but nobody every cries about that.


Poor Robo.
 

ventuno

Member
Nov 11, 2019
2,009
Played Chrono Trigger first, still like Chrono Cross better. Cross being so different from Trigger is what makes me prefer it. I think that Trigger and Cross are for different audiences and ultimately should have had way more distance.

In fact, I think that Cross should have been its own series, it's always a risk to follow up on a title as beloved as Chrono Trigger, especially when you're not giving people more of what they want and expect. Cross being so polarizing is a symptom of this. It's fair to be disappointed when the expectation of a continuation isn't met.
 

hydruxo

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,449
Lol I feel like I've seen every possible combination of this thread title the last few days.

Great game, bad sequel. Bad game, great sequel. Great game, great sequel, Bad game, bad sequel.

oprah-winfrey-so-what-is-the-truth.gif
 

L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
50,076
weiss sure likes making a lot of people chrono cross with his hot takes. hey o
 

B.K.

Member
Oct 31, 2017
17,045
I inherently dislike sequels that feel the need to shit on the previous entry's ending

Chrono Trigger had a happy ending, let it have that. Cross can fuck off.

Cross was so bad it actually made Trigger worse, for me. I never enjoyed Chrono Trigger quite the same anymore after playing Chrono Cross.
 

Doggg

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Nov 17, 2017
14,474
It's a great game and a strange sequel, but not necessarily a bad one. The only real issue I have with it is the bad main battle theme in an otherwise incredible soundtrack.
 

Brainfreeze

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,690
New Jersey
I have complaints about the battle system and how easy the game is, but I think Chrono Cross in generally a really great game. It has a very pretty painterly art style with the GOAT OST too. I would argue it's a better game than it is a sequel since most of its good qualities would still be there just as strong without Chrono Trigger.

It is a good sequel though and that angle adds a lot to the game. I get why some Trigger fans don't like it, but the anger some fans still feel for it after all these years is strange to me. I'm sure this comparison will upset some people (and I'm genuinely not trying to be inflammatory, I've felt this way before too), but it almost gives me Last Jedi vibes. Fans who were kids when they played Trigger just cannot get over what Cross does to their special little guys. The story telling can be clunky, but I see little engagement with what Cross was actually trying to do - the very concept of killing their favorite characters off screen upsets people enough to turn them off of the whole thing. I like the write up in the OP, Chrono Cross takes its story in some really interesting directions.

I like Trigger and Cross about equally for very different reasons and that's really cool.
 

BlueManifest

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,338
Can someone remind me how this is a sequel to trigger again before I buy this in April, back when I played when it came out I had no idea it was a direct sequel, I might enjoy it more if I understand the connection
 

Deleted member 36578

Dec 21, 2017
26,561
Lol I feel like I've seen every possible combination of this thread title the last few days.

Great game, bad sequel. Bad game, great sequel. Great game, great sequel, Bad game, bad sequel.

oprah-winfrey-so-what-is-the-truth.gif
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

it's ok. Really really really great sound track though.
 

L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
50,076
I never got around to Chrono Cross so I can't get mad at it personally, although I've been unable to convince a friend of mine that Trigger is worthwhile after he played Cross first. But having heard the story, I think it helped me understand it when I learned that it was written by the guy who designed the monsters from the original Ninja Gaiden on the NES.
 

L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
50,076
I also keep forgetting that Masato Kato was the script writer for the cult classic Princess Maker 2.
 

Nessus

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,924
I remember back when it came out it was this huge selling point that Chrono Cross had 45 playable characters (I think perhaps it was coming off Final Fantasy VI having 14 playable characters) but even back then I realized it meant that very few of them got very much character development.

Never got too deep into it but I always wanted to give it another shot. Maybe I'll do that with the remaster.
 

Inugami

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,995
So 3 years ago I replayed the game and wrote my thoughts... Spoiler alert, I had a lot of them.

www.resetera.com

Chrono Cross, a full replay and massive retrospective. (minor spoilers first post, full spoilers second onward)

Nearly 20 years after release, I decided it was time for me to brush this game off and play it from start to finish. Beyond that, I wanted to do a 100% run, or barring that, as much as you can do in a single run (which is actually quite a lot!). It's probably been 15 years since I've played the...

Anyone that said the game is a bad game, or is a bad sequel is absolutely 100% wrong. What the game actually is, is a flawed masterpiece that suffered heavily from Square's 2 year development timeline for PS1 games. It's one of the reasons the remaster is a bit of a disappointment...

I will die on the hill that you can not trust a single person who's opinion on the game is that is not a sequel to CT, or would be better as a stand alone game... Those people either had their eyes closed for most of their playthrough, or didn't come close to completing the game.
 

Kenai

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,211
It had a lot I liked, but the extremely bloated cast did itself no favors and most of what made Trigger really good (no random encounters, very little filler, strong main cast/characters, tight gameplay with interesting team attack mechanics) just wasn't there. I was of the opinion then and still am that if you take it for what it is instead of what it is not it is still a very enjoyable game in spite of all that.

Can someone remind me how this is a sequel to trigger again before I buy this in April, back when I played when it came out I had no idea it was a direct sequel, I might enjoy it more if I understand the connection

I might be off on this but Cross took the time travel stuff a step further and said something along the lines of "well if you changed time so much that means a lot of branching timelines so what that actually means is" and it just kind of spiraled from there.

Glenn is Frog from another timeline where he was never actually a frog (I think?), Magus is suffering from memory loss but still around, Kidd is from Lucca's orphanage, the civilization in the Dead Sea is tied into what happened to Robo/Prometheus, Schala is still trapped by Lavos but turned emo somehow so maybe not actually. It was a lot
 

mopinks

Member
Oct 27, 2017
30,579
It had a lot I liked, but the extremely bloated cast did itself no favors and most of what made Trigger really good (no random encounters, very little filler, strong characters, tight gameplay with interested team attack mechanics) just wasn't there.
but Cross leans even harder into no random encounters