OP
OP
CNN Poll: Majority says Trump not exonerated of collusion after Barr's summary
- Thread starter Hollywood Duo
- Start date
Can you prove innocence? I thought all you could legally prove is that there isn't enough evidence to find someone guilty, or is this different?
I'm guessing they're going off the assumption that much of the report comprises (a) what we already know from the indictments and (b) what has happened in the public sphere with regard to obstruction such as firing Comey
I don't find it crazy. Mueller operates based on available factual evidence that requires a clear trail. If they don't have something absolutely clear cut then it is very difficult if not impossible to prove.
However all the stories and events involving Trump and the Russians do not sit well with the general public, even if those things aren't technically crimes.
Good. He obstructed and colluded in the open! And that's meaningful politically to a lot of people, even if the legal ramifications are murkier for good faith reasons and bad faith reasons.
Oh my god. It's amazing, how Literally none of this matters
Whatever. Focus on healthcare. Pick two people 55% of America likes decently enough. Hope for the best. All we can do.
Considering CNN was one of the main ones pushing the russiagate story for the past 2 years, i'm surprised that number isnt higher. Granted that's not saying much when Trump and his team are clearly guilty of plenty of other non collusion crimes that i wish the corpo media would actually take the time out of their busy days to focus on rather than this non story. Please focus on real issues pertinent to people, i understand its hard but we need this. You can still keep your trump fixation, just aim it at real corruption he's doing, he's got plenty of that.
The majority of Americans can read I guess?
Barr says Trump is not exonerated.
Congrats America, at least 51% of you can read.
Barr says Trump is not exonerated.
Congrats America, at least 51% of you can read.
I don't consider him exonerated and I think he clearly colluded, but I also think this report shows democrats should stop focusing on collusion as an area of attack against Trump so much when it's something he can now more effectively deny.
Instead focus on how he's an objectively shitty president, or if you have to discuss collusion then talk about how he surrounded himself with so many scumbag felons who got convicted when he promised to hire the best people.
Instead focus on how he's an objectively shitty president, or if you have to discuss collusion then talk about how he surrounded himself with so many scumbag felons who got convicted when he promised to hire the best people.
It's almost like you willingly ignore the last two years of Democrats running on issues that directly effect voters to the point where they dominated the House and now have control of it, as well as many other gains in state houses/senates and leadership positions.
"Pushing Russia-gate", you make it sound like the media was acting like Republicans trying to stir something up like it's Bengazi. You do know there were indictments, people have gone to prison, the knowledge that the RNC was hacked and it's contents not released, the now clear understanding that Wikileaks is a Russian front, attempt to get dirt on Clinton at Trump Tower...
This far left spin on the Russia situation is pretty transparent as to why you want to diminish it, because if it's true and proven that Russia had a sizable impact on 2016, then a lot of your narrative (and political world view) and spin goes out the window for future elections, the fuel is "gone" so to to say. 2018 kinda should have been a wake up call with the majority of Justice Democrats and DSA candidates losing in primaries and their general elections in non-solid blue districts that the core idea of "everyone run far left to win everything" is a demonstrably bad idea.
He's guilty as fuck. No innocent person pulls as much shady shit as Trump did to interfere with the investigation.
Glad to see most people aren't blindly swallowing the media's bullshit though.
Glad to see most people aren't blindly swallowing the media's bullshit though.
This is more significant than that, the majority of Americas still believe he has not been exonerated on collusion. Even more importantly, 58 percent of independents still think he's guilty.
In other words, people don't trust Barr (nor should they considering his conduct tbh).
Its almost as if i know that putin didn't collude with Trump in a backroom somewhere and everyone who expressed skepticism wasnt a Russian Agent to be shamed after all. The fact that you get so mad about me criticizing CNN of all things for focusing on it 24/7, turning it into self fulfilling industry on its own is telling though. I didn't even bring up democratic candidates running in elections during the midterms to begin with.
As for Trump's allies being convicted, that's a "no shit" from me. Nobody was disputing that Trump and his cronies were corrupt as my post stated, that's why they went to jail. They just were not Russian plants which was silly in the first place to aim the hysteria and frenzy at. Yes the corporate media has an obligation to own up to misleading the people.
The DNC got hacked and the leaks came out about their role in the 2016 election through wikileaks. That's what this started as. Knowing that, how the narrative was deflected to be about Trump and a non story was obviously transparent to deflect away from Clinton's loss.
But as i said in my last post. I don't even care about that at this point, that's all water under the bridge. Now that things have gotten exposed for what they are, the media focusing on actual issues would be nice. Although i know that will never happen as long as the establishment class in America wants to continue to deflect away from themselves.
Sorry but you still don't know. You have no idea if Trump is compromised by Russia and nothing in Barr's letter did anything to alleviate those concerns. His cronies weren't just indicted for their other illegal activities, they were indicted for being unregistered foreign agents and giving polling information to Russian nationalists. Yes the DNC got hacked -- by Russia. And immediately after Trump asked Russia to hack them.
Whether Trump is intentionally working with Russia, he is doing everything Russia wants, so what's the difference in terms of outcomes? Why as a nation should we not focus on that? This report confirmed that Russia interfered in our election, and Trump is STILL covering for them and saying they didn't! That's why people still care. That's why people don't give a shit about Barr's report. We've seen with our own eyes the link between Trump and Russia, and an extremely narrow summary from a guy with a history of coverups does not inspire confidence, especially when they refuse to release the report and say they'll let the White House make redactions before the public can see it.
This shouldn't be the entire narrative, but it's important, and arguing to drop it because of "no collusion!!!" is doing the GOP's work for them.
Of course.
The orange douchebag is on Fox right now via phone taking shit about possible collusion in the 90s with Bill Clinton.
Even in Barr's memo, Trump and his cronies were only cleared, specifically, of helping Russia commit the indicted crimes of hacking and creating a troll farm.
None of the other Russian (or other foreign country influence) connections go away or become instantly false because of Barr's memo. Nor does the very public evidence that Trump tried his hardest to prevent it all from coming to light. And the majority of the country is obviously not going to take Trump's second handpicked AG at his word that there is no additional political intrigue in the report:
https://www.theatlantic.com/politic...mary-omits-key-aspect-muellers-report/585703/
A situation where Russia committed crimes against the US, Trump campaign knew about it but did nothing, Trump and his cronies offer and receive dozens of political favors (including publicly obfuscating Russia's role in the crime and the idea that the crime took place in the first place) as a wink-wink-nudge-nudge thank you, and it can't be proven that the Trump campaign solicited the original crime, still absolves them of "collusion" but makes him unfit to be president.
How do we actually know this without seeing the report though? Barr is less than trustworthy on the issue.
This is why they were better off releasing it with no redaction and erasing doubt... but McConnell is an idiot. If you make it look like you're hiding something, people will think you probably are.
You have a multi-year investigation summarized in a few pages by a partisan Trump-appointee that's already argued for why he should be cleared of any wrong-doing, which the report failed to do. And then you refuse to cleanly release it. I think most people will get that nuance and why it's hard to take at face value.
You have a multi-year investigation summarized in a few pages by a partisan Trump-appointee that's already argued for why he should be cleared of any wrong-doing, which the report failed to do. And then you refuse to cleanly release it. I think most people will get that nuance and why it's hard to take at face value.
Note also, that the EXONERATION was on one crime, which it seems he cleared.
Not the OoJ.
Not the bribery.
Not the emoluments.
Nor the election financing fuckery.
Hell, even espionage rumors.
And not on anything else AFTER the swearing in.
That's where the problem here is, as a narcissist with leverage, he whittles down the chance to punish and shame him (a narcissist's greatest mortal fear) to ONE condition. Beat that, and he's in the clear...in his head...which he will make people very very tiring to force him to concede different if those other crimes come in bunches. Cuz narcissist.
That independents number is fucking terrible news for Trump. He accomplished nothing except make people think he has somethong to hide.
Trump has colluded with foreign powers during this election. He literally handed over the US embassy to Jerusalem and is now trying to give part of Syria to flipping Israel. Let's refocus our efforts onto the real scandals, for the sake of the future.
Anybody paying attention to Trump and Barr knows what is going on.
This is a massive power grab by a toady to keep Trump's secrets.
Everyone touting Barr's letter needs to ask themselves why he could only spin it without quoting a full sentence from Mueller, just fragments. So exonerating that he couldn't allow the context of a single fucking sentence.
Shaking my damned head.