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dc's core heroes were created in the golden age, when superheroes were powered by drinking radium vitamins, mystical martial arts learned from racist stereotypes, having money, and being from planets with higher gravity. their number one foes? ghosts, nazis, and immigrants
marvel's core heroes were created in the silver age, when superheroes were powered by genetics, atom bombs, having money, and god. their number one foes? aliens, russians, and women's lib
marvel's core heroes were created in the silver age, when superheroes were powered by genetics, atom bombs, having money, and god. their number one foes? aliens, russians, and women's lib
Wakanda has the cure for cancer
That's still kind of missing the point though. Especially considering this just means Wakanda's been holding onto the cure for cancer from the rest of the world.
Either way, it is what it is. Comics can tell great stories, but let's not pretend that a majority of them across time and space aren't going to be middling or have giant logical fallacies the size of entire countries. Be it DC, Marvel or other less known comic lines.
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Its just a difference in priorities, marvel has mor genius's and their telepaths are way stronger, but dc has more people in the magic end. And marvel cant touch dc when it comes to speedsters.
Wakanda has the cure for cancer
Wow that sure makes the Wakandans look like a bunch of massive dickheads. There's a point where "we keep to ourselves" isn't a good enough excuse anymore.
Eh, no need to bring Marvel's "with all these geniuses and advanced tech, why does [insert medical condition here] still exists?" questions. DC was already stretching it on why Barbara was still on "risky, experimental tech" to walk again when other more advanced tech exists.
Nah, the point is that both companies have their logical fallacies. Acting like there's any real meaningful difference between how stupid some things are in DC Comics compared to Marvel is missing the point: Comics regularly get stupid.
It's a fine line, obviously and you have to suspend some disbelief and gauge effective storytelling, but I think it's a bit much to argue that one company is inherently sillier or more "dumb" than the other company.
It's a rebuttal to the "why hasn't Batman solved poverty question". In continuity cape books from the big two will always need to be somewhat rooted in reality so heroes don't tackle real world issues.
I mean, we've well established ITT that while both have dumb stuff, Marvel is worse in this regard because their characters are indeed smarter. It's not exactly a competition, but in this particular case there are some degree of variation.
Similar to the topic of retcons/reboots. They're both guilty of doing it. But DC's way of doing it is way more apparent than Marvel because they keep trying to make these reboots and retcons in-universe meta events, which leads to the supposition that it's a DC thing when Marvel has also soft-rebooted their sliding timeline every now and then, because many of their heroes' origins were tied to specific eras.
Exactly.
Fair enough. And I agree, it really isn't a competition.
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I mean when everyone only comes to rob you, why you got to save them?
When the most advanced country in the world sociopathically withholds advances that would save tens of millions of lives and solve many of the world's problems, why wouldn't they come rob you?
Withholding a cure for cancer is beyond just geopolitical drama and falls into the realm of murder by inaction. The Wakandans lose most of their luster if they've got that and are using it as a freaking political bargaining chip.
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So colonialism is OK if a country isn't willing to put in the work but brown or black people have?
I came in to see how discourse was doing…
First of all I think it does Wakanda a massive disservice to label an attack on them as "colonialism". They're the superpower; the traditional real world dynamic is flipped on its head and that's the point. No one is looking at Wakanda and seeing a bunch of backwater tribal heathens ripe for conquering, at least not in Marvel's modern day. Second, at the point where a nation of people is withholding aid from the world that's indirectly killing millions in the process, if you've exhausted peaceful means of getting them to share, I'm pretty sure the people of that world, faced with an existential crisis, would start feeling like anything is on the table.
There is no defending them withholding the cure for cancer. It makes them a bunch of fucking assholes.
Batman also doesn't fight just in Gotham, dude pays for the JLA and a bit of his family's operations, quite a few of which also have teams, and he has material for Gods, Aliens, Demons and so forth that are real issues in DC Earth and will gladly conquer or kill all of humanity, and Batman's stealth and tactics many times helped save the world...not exactly punching the villains but his other skills and gadgets.
People forget that while his main focus is Gotham, Batman is also part of superhero teams and fights in other cities or countries.
Hell, he literally pays other heroes their entire lives, for example, he owns the Daily Planet, he is the one who gives Clark Kent and Lois Lane their salaries...he is even the landlord of some apartments and houses heroes live in so he can excuse their rents when they aren't on the planet or can't pay because they were busy saving lives. now should he give all his money to Gotham...ordinarily i would say yes, but it's DC Earth, fighting aliens and demons is genuinely more important, because, great, Gotham gets to live 5 minutes without poverty before a demon destroys it because Bruce Wayne just didn't have gadgets to sneak and steal a magical item or distract the demon long enough for his teammates to save the world, that's kinda the issue with bringing real life issues to DC and Marvel comic book Earths...THEY AREN'T US, they have different issues too.
People forget that while his main focus is Gotham, Batman is also part of superhero teams and fights in other cities or countries.
Hell, he literally pays other heroes their entire lives, for example, he owns the Daily Planet, he is the one who gives Clark Kent and Lois Lane their salaries...he is even the landlord of some apartments and houses heroes live in so he can excuse their rents when they aren't on the planet or can't pay because they were busy saving lives. now should he give all his money to Gotham...ordinarily i would say yes, but it's DC Earth, fighting aliens and demons is genuinely more important, because, great, Gotham gets to live 5 minutes without poverty before a demon destroys it because Bruce Wayne just didn't have gadgets to sneak and steal a magical item or distract the demon long enough for his teammates to save the world, that's kinda the issue with bringing real life issues to DC and Marvel comic book Earths...THEY AREN'T US, they have different issues too.
Marvel already solved poverty?
Wakanda doesn't wanna share the cure for cancer?
Where's Grant Morrison at?
Wakanda doesn't wanna share the cure for cancer?
Where's Grant Morrison at?
I can't find it but there was this Marvel book in the late 90s or early 2000s where they tried to realistically take into consideration what these superheroes would impact a real world.
Like Reed Richards had created this free energy. Stark had police drones I think? Superheroes like the X-men had their own clothing lines.
I saw it in Wizard but I never read it but I assume it was a dystopian utopia.
It sounds a bit like the early days of the ultimate line (or at least how they discussed it in interviews) or more specifically the Bendis run of Ultimate Team-Up, which created the initial continuity problems across the line.
Stellar run if you can enjoy comics for the art though, they were mostly inconsequential stories but a great roster of artists for the initial run.
Phil Hester on Hulk, Mike Allred on Iron Man, Jim Mahfood on FF, and more. it was great stuff.
Oh I read all of them. Don't cite the deep magic here. Haha.
But this book came out maybe during or right after the Ultimate line. It was supposed to be a four issue mini series but since I don't remember seeing it on my LCS shelves or anyone discuss it I wonder if it ever even happened. It was just a 1- 2 page preview with concept art. We didn't have as much transparency with cancellations back then.
OOF this is going to drive me crazy because it actually sounds very familiar, initially, I'd think maybe the Marvel Mangaverse because that was limited, around the same time and flirted with a lot of that high-concept stuff (that it never delivered on.)
but it could also be one of those Wizard "fan editorials " I remember the Alex Ross X-Men one implanted two or three false memories in my brain.
Lol I'll be digging around MU on lunch now, thanks!
I had to think but I'm 90% sure it wasn't an April Fools thing either because I feel like it was a few months before or after that famous Adam Kubert "Spider-Man is joining the X-men prank".
Are X-Men not Marvel now? They have done a pretty great job at solving for scarcity by creating "everlasting" life. Though it is science mumbo jumbo these mutant circuits at least do point to the idea that together there is no problem that can't be solved.
They share these gifts(Petals, Resurrection) with a world that tolerates tons of terrorist groups that want no more than their genocide. Perhaps if humanity stopped being dicks they could get a whole new planet that wasn't ruined by capitalism and colonialism.
They share these gifts(Petals, Resurrection) with a world that tolerates tons of terrorist groups that want no more than their genocide. Perhaps if humanity stopped being dicks they could get a whole new planet that wasn't ruined by capitalism and colonialism.
Almost all of Marvel's super geniuses have one or more significant character flaws. Some of the most prominent ones in no particular order:
- Bruce Banner has severe psychological damage due to childhood abuse and being the Hulk. He teeters on villainy constantly.
- Tony Stark is an egomaniac that constantly think he knows better than everyone else, which had led him--and the world--astray on more than one occasion. Also a struggling alcoholic.
- Dr. Doom's issues are self evident.
- Hank McCoy turned into an arrogant, Machiavellian villain in his obsession to protect the new mutant nation Krakoa. He's little better than Dark Beast at this point.
- Hank Pym is similar to Banner in that he has a lot of unresolved psychological issues which led him astray and threatened the world (see: Ultron).
- Mr. Fantastic seems most well-adjusted, but if you see his alternate universe counterparts, he could easily have become one scary villain. Only his family keeps him in check.
- Bruce Banner has severe psychological damage due to childhood abuse and being the Hulk. He teeters on villainy constantly.
- Tony Stark is an egomaniac that constantly think he knows better than everyone else, which had led him--and the world--astray on more than one occasion. Also a struggling alcoholic.
- Dr. Doom's issues are self evident.
- Hank McCoy turned into an arrogant, Machiavellian villain in his obsession to protect the new mutant nation Krakoa. He's little better than Dark Beast at this point.
- Hank Pym is similar to Banner in that he has a lot of unresolved psychological issues which led him astray and threatened the world (see: Ultron).
- Mr. Fantastic seems most well-adjusted, but if you see his alternate universe counterparts, he could easily have become one scary villain. Only his family keeps him in check.
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To be fair, this criticism is so common that a lot of stories have been made showing what would happen if Batman did not meet them or train them and it's ALWAYS Bad, either the world is over because each saved the world a few times or they die, they still become vigilantes and almost always have vastly worse lives.
The only exception is Jason Todd but he tends to become an awful crime lord responsible for ruining and killing the lives of many innocent people so...yeah, people keeping on hating Batman made it so that canonically the world and the children are...lucky they became trained child soldiers which just shows how messed their world is where that is the best outcome.
Then you have Reed Richards (and Stark) in the original Civil War. Stark at least they basically brain wiped him to redeem him, with Reed they just kind of shrugged it off, right?
I don't care about the child soldier thing that much, I was kinda joking but "Well, ackshully we checked the multiverse and this is the best thing that could have happened to them" is not exactly a great response to criticism.
To me it's more of the silly logic on the same page where it's suggested that other nations would somehow weaponize the cure for cancer.
I know, it's DC covering their asses because Robin is so iconic he is the only sidekick they can't take away.
I mean, I guess Green Arrow and Flash have some but they don't appear as much, because sidekicks went out of fashion and are child soldiers...but Robin is the popular exception so excuses are made.
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Not given their history with them. Especially they next door apartheid neighbors
*cough*To me it's more of the silly logic on the same page where it's suggested that other nations would somehow weaponize the cure for cancer.
That is technically weaponizing cancer.Not given their history with them. Especially they next door apartheid neighbors
*cough*
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Come on. You know the Weapon + program was a US program operating bases out of Canada...for reasons.
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Department H did dirt too, they sanctioned a Wendigo for a Superhero team
Hmm. I get it. But I don't like it.Not given their history with them. Especially they next door apartheid neighbors
*cough*
In the current line of comics, isn't Wakanda deporting all black Americans they previously opened their borders to?