Comment by NVIDIA employee confirms existence of Tegra239 - the SoC likely to be used on the Nintendo Switch 2

BreakAtmo · Sep 26, 2022

ILikeFeet said:
devs gotta want it first. 60fps is easier to hit when it's the focus, rather than hoping for it. at least the cpu won't be the biggest problem when aiming for it

I mean the Switch CPU should dominate the Jaguar chips, right? So at least most ports of 8th Gen games should have a shot , even if they ran at only 30fps on PS4?

Honestly, something I would truly love to see is for the Switch 2 to have a screen with refresh rate switching and an actual Nintendo mandate that refer handheld game must run at at least 40fps in handheld mode. It'll never happen, but I do think it might be possible on every game.

Gusy · Sep 26, 2022

F34R said:
I'll respond to both at the same time...

I'll be a little clearer since for some reason people get upset over people that have spent thousands of dollars on system and games and just want Nintendo to do better.

720p MINIMUM, OLED, CONSISTENT frame rate. Locked at 30, 40, 60, etc.

That makes a lot of sense and is a TOTALLY different statement from the one you made before. That's not being clearer, that's course correcting.. which is fine.

I want PS4 level fidelity and a decent battery life (4-5 hours).

ILikeFeet · Sep 26, 2022

BreakAtmo said:
I mean the Switch CPU should dominate the Jaguar chips, right? So at least most ports of 8th Gen games should have a shot , even if they ran at only 30fps on PS4?

Honestly, something I would truly love to see is for the Switch 2 to have a screen with refresh rate switching and an actual Nintendo mandate that refer handheld game must run at at least 40fps in handheld mode. It'll never happen, but I do think it might be possible on every game.

the A57, clock for clock would be more efficient than Jaguar, yea. but the Switch's cpu is lower clocked and has 3 of them for games compared to the 6-7 in other systems. Switch is gonna hit other cpu walls

I don't know if I agree with mandating minimum performance. sounds like a great way for devs to not bother. especially as the generation wears on and games are made with the PS5/Series X in mind

BreakAtmo · Sep 27, 2022

ILikeFeet said:
the A57, clock for clock would be more efficient than Jaguar, yea. but the Switch's cpu is lower clocked and has 3 of them for games compared to the 6-7 in other systems. Switch is gonna hit other cpu walls

I don't know if I agree with mandating minimum performance. sounds like a great way for devs to not bother. especially as the generation wears on and games are made with the PS5/Series X in mind

Sorry, I meant the Switch 2 CPU. The A78, you were saying?

Yeah, performance mandates work on PSVR but might push devs away outside of that.

Busaiku · Sep 27, 2022

Gusy said:
I want PS4 level fidelity and a decent battery life (4-5 hours).

PS4 games get like 1.5 hours on Steam Deck, Nintendo would have to do some insane wizardry to get 3x that.

MrKlaw · Sep 27, 2022

I don't know that I want 540p scaled to 1080p I'd rather have native 720p or 720p scaled to 1080p. and if you're rendering 720p + DLSS thats obvoiusly more expensive in processimg time than just 720p on its own. That plus more power needed to drive a 1080p screen and power being critical in a device thats the size of a switch rather than the size of a steam deck pushes me towards 720p being just fine thanks.

a 40fps capable screen would be nice too. I don't expect OLED at launch but it would be a nice bonus - likely Nintendo will be keep costs under control

Chief Malik · Sep 27, 2022

Busaiku said:
PS4 games get like 1.5 hours on Steam Deck, Nintendo would have to do some insane wizardry to get 3x that.

I wouldn't say that, I haven't got less than 2.5 hours on any game played. Maybe cyberpunk at 40 fps have me 2? With optimization (all developers on switch think about battery life during development) you could get 3.5 I guess for heavy stuff. The deck is a PC nothing is optimized.

SmackDaddy · Sep 27, 2022

'Tegrity?

ILikeFeet · Sep 27, 2022

BreakAtmo said:
Sorry, I meant the Switch 2 CPU. The A78, you were saying?

Yeah, performance mandates work on PSVR but might push devs away outside of that.

Ah, the A78 would crush Jaguar even with a lower clock

N/A - Geekbench

Benchmark results for a N/A with a DG1000FGF84HT processor.

browser.geekbench.com

https://twitter.com/SkyJuice60/status/1539489615580889089?t=y-iDkrFDpfL9QTYMcs3mAQ&s=19

cw_sasuke · Sep 27, 2022

Busaiku said:
PS4 games get like 1.5 hours on Steam Deck, Nintendo would have to do some insane wizardry to get 3x that.

There no "PS4 games" it all depends on the quality of the port, setting and how its using the hardware resources. Most PS4 level games can be played while having a 11w cap on the SteamDeck - so you get 3-4h outside of few exceptions.

Not every PS4 gen games is Horizon.

4/5h on Switch 2 is what i would expect for last gen games.

Sqrt · Sep 27, 2022

808s & Villainy said:
The Wii U speculation threads weren't based on leaked HW at all though. They were based on what Nintendo could be using. Not to mention, we know the Wii U was severely gimped to maintain BC with the Wii because PowerPC was pretty much dead other than that at the time

The Wii U was weaker than expected because:

The system targeted 30w (compared to 200W for the PS3).
It used dated CPU tech to maintain backwards compatibility with the Wii.

This doesn't apply to the Switch 2 because:

We know which kind of technology its using (leak suggest A78 CPUs and Ampere GPUs).
We know the ballpark power envelope (3-10w portable, 15-25w docked).

BreakAtmo · Sep 27, 2022

Busaiku said:
PS4 games get like 1.5 hours on Steam Deck, Nintendo would have to do some insane wizardry to get 3x that.

The Switch 2 will have multiple advantages when it comes to power efficiency. TSMC 5nm is better than Samsung 8nm, ARM is better than x86, and Ampere might be a bit better than RDNA2, I'm not sure. Also it seems like the Switch 2 GPU will be considerably larger, able to reach PS4 levels of power even if it was only running at 350-400MHz vs the 1.6GHz of the Deck. Overall the Switch 2 will be more efficient.

MrKlaw said:
I don't know that I want 540p scaled to 1080p I'd rather have native 720p or 720p scaled to 1080p. and if you're rendering 720p + DLSS thats obvoiusly more expensive in processimg time than just 720p on its own. That plus more power needed to drive a 1080p screen and power being critical in a device thats the size of a switch rather than the size of a steam deck pushes me towards 720p being just fine thanks.

a 40fps capable screen would be nice too. I don't expect OLED at launch but it would be a nice bonus - likely Nintendo will be keep costs under control

Honestly I'd have to see comparisons of different displays and rendering options, which won't happen. Well have to accept what Nintendo gives us - and I expect that it's it is a 1080p screen it'll be for marketing reasons more than anything else.

ILikeFeet said:
Ah, the A78 would crush Jaguar even with a lower clock

N/A - Geekbench

Benchmark results for a N/A with a DG1000FGF84HT processor.

browser.geekbench.com

https://twitter.com/SkyJuice60/status/1539489615580889089?t=y-iDkrFDpfL9QTYMcs3mAQ&s=19

Yeah, that's about what I imagined. And it'll probably have a higher clock on top of that. Exciting times.

Rahkeesh · Sep 27, 2022

Switch 2 won't have 5+ hours of battery life in top games no matter how efficient because that's just performance left on the table. The OG Switch and 2DS are in the 2.5-3 hour range, that's the kind of sweet spot they target. We've only gotten used to longer times on the V2/OLED because they retained the same battery size for a 16nm chip that they originally designed around a 20.

Spinluck · Sep 27, 2022

if they can get in the ballpark of OLED Switch battery on somewhat demanding games-- i'd be content.

i am not expecting much when running a Cyberpunk port or something if that ever makes it to Switch 2.

but if i am playing Shovel Knight or Hollow Knight, i'd hope i can get a good amount of playtime. i am more interested on what this thing will be able to do with docked. i'd imagine they would just follow the same design as the Switch.

BreakAtmo · Sep 27, 2022

Spinluck said:
if they can get in the ballpark of OLED Switch battery on somewhat demanding games-- i'd be content.

i am not expecting much when running a Cyberpunk port or something if that ever makes it to Switch 2.

but if i am playing Shovel Knight or Hollow Knight, i'd hope i can get a good amount of playtime. i am more interested on what this thing will be able to do with docked. i'd imagine they would just follow the same design as the Switch.

It's very likely that something like SK or HK would run for ages. It would almost certainly last significantly longer than the Switch OLED simply because the games wouldn't be any more taxing. Ports of PS2 or PS3 era games would likely run for a long time too, unless they were experimenting with RT on them. It's PS4 era games and full-on next-gen games - the sort of things that wouldn't even run on the Switch - that would hit hard, but honestly I feel like in those sorts of cases you should be grateful to get to play it handheld at all, and just bring a battery pack or something.

I'm hoping docked play pushes things to the limit. They should bump the power draw from 15W on Switch to 20-25W on Switch 2, and use a PS5-style variable clock system fixed to that power draw so the clocks can spend most of their time higher, rather than having to be tamped down all the time to accommodate rare outlier spikes.

Xtortion · Sep 27, 2022

But will Switch 2 have HDR

does Nintendo even know what HDR is

Dolce · Sep 27, 2022

Rahkeesh said:
Switch 2 won't have 5+ hours of battery life in top games no matter how efficient because that's just performance left on the table. The OG Switch and 2DS are in the 2.5-3 hour range, that's the kind of sweet spot they target. We've only gotten used to longer times on the V2/OLED because they retained the same battery size for a 16nm chip that they originally designed around a 20.

Pretty sure the original Switch had games, like BOTW I believe, that were 2 hours. Which is atrocious and got in the way way too often for me.

The problem is when you start to get that low every hour matters. Going from 2 to 3 hours is an enormous jump. Then to 4 again is huge. I find 4 hours is around the sweet spot where I don't notice anymore, but I use my consoles a lot. 2-3 charges in a day isn't uncommon for me.

SharpX68K · Sep 27, 2022

I say, keep the screen 720p and hopefully make the GPU clock 3x higher in docked mode, compared to the -2.25x or so difference with the Switch GPU does going from portable to docked.

Orange Piccolo · Sep 27, 2022

Xtortion said:
does Nintendo even know what HDR is

Nvidia does if they don't (they do).

RingoGaSuki · Sep 27, 2022

Dolce said:
Pretty sure the original Switch had games, like BOTW I believe, that were 2 hours. Which is atrocious and got in the way way too often for me.

The problem is when you start to get that low every hour matters. Going from 2 to 3 hours is an enormous jump. Then to 4 again is huge. I find 4 hours is around the sweet spot where I don't notice anymore, but I use my consoles a lot. 2-3 charges in a day isn't uncommon for me.

Not defending the OG Switch's battery or anything, but that was at max brightness, wifi on, sound all the way up etc etc, I played with lower brightness and wifi off and BOTW gave me 3.5-4 hours on the OG (ran out just over halfway through a 10 hour flight)

jdstorm · Sep 27, 2022

To me the OG switches battery is fine for 80% use cases. And for the everything else just use a power bank.

The bigger issue is that the only charge point is at the bottom so it's not always easy to play on charge.

You could get an attachable power bank that fixed that issue but that was heavy and not overly comfortable to use if not set up In tabletop mode. I think the best solution would be if you were able to charge from the top of the screen while playing in handheld mode

SpartyCrunch · Sep 28, 2022

I played BotW for like 4-5 hours straight on a plane close to release, on my OG Switch.

I just had this with me and it did the trick nicely:

https://a.co/d/iN2K3DY

Rahkeesh · Sep 28, 2022

My argument about a "sweet spot" isn't about what you or I might want. It's what they've done over and over, presumably based on their own research. Even the non-XL 3DS were in the same ballpark, assuming you had 3D on 24/7, which is what Nintendo designed the system for initially. Heck even Sony's model 1 Vita was around the same.

Maybe 2hr Zelda is a bit on the low side, but 5 hours is well above the norm, I can't see it for the first chip of a new generation, yes Nintendo likes to hold back some on power but that is too much.

Afrikan · Sep 28, 2022

View: https://youtu.be/2g_QK3iipfA

Was just watching this earlier...

I didn't know the little details that went into this game...I remember the fire sim, but didn't know about the grass and water (stuff in the water). I can't believe they pulled off all these little things on the Switch.

Can only imagine what they will pull off on new hardware. O_o

BreakAtmo · Sep 28, 2022

Afrikan said:
View: https://youtu.be/2g_QK3iipfA

Was just watching this earlier...

I didn't know the little details that went into this game...I remember the fire sim, but didn't know about the grass and water (stuff in the water). I can't believe they pulled off all these little things on the Switch.

Can only imagine what they will pull off on new hardware. O_o

Hell, just give BotW a Switch 2 patch and that would be great on its own. 60fps and whatever they want to do with DLSS.

ILikeFeet · Sep 28, 2022

Orange Piccolo said:
Nvidia does if they don't (they do).

Nvidia can't do anything on this. Even the TX1 in the Switch supports hdr after all

Adulfzen · Sep 28, 2022

unfortunately the job application aint available to look at now but there was an hiring page at one point in 2020 for a Senior Engineer of display technologies :

Future Nintendo games may support HDR - KitGuru

Midway through the current generation of consoles, we saw both Microsoft and Sony introduce HDR gami

www.kitguru.net

On Linkedin, Nintendo published a job application for a Senior Engineer of display technologies. As part of the summary of requirements, Nintendo has requested the applicant have "Knowledge of different display technologies, such as LCD, OLED, HDR, etc."

Obviously we now have an oled switch so it wouldn't be a stretch to speculate nintendo might be exploring HDR next

SharpX68K · Sep 29, 2022

Afrikan said:
View: https://youtu.be/2g_QK3iipfA

Was just watching this earlier...

I didn't know the little details that went into this game...I remember the fire sim, but didn't know about the grass and water (stuff in the water). I can't believe they pulled off all these little things on the Switch.

Can only imagine what they will pull off on new hardware. O_o

Ahhh yeah, same here.

I'm wondering what Monolith will be able to do in a game built for the next hardware. And also, over time, what 10th gen Pokemon will bring to the table in terms of 3D worlds.

MrKlaw · Sep 29, 2022

SharpX68K said:
Ahhh yeah, same here.

I'm wondering what Monolith will be able to do in a game built for the next hardware. And also, over time, what 10th gen Pokemon will bring to the table in terms of 3D worlds.

I'm sure it'll look great, but whatever monolith build for the switch 2, it'll be built for the switch 3 - ie will still likely struggle and push beyond its capabilities

louris · Sep 29, 2022

Afrikan said:
View: https://youtu.be/2g_QK3iipfA
I can't believe they pulled off all these little things on the WiiU.

Fixed.

Afrikan · Sep 29, 2022

louris said:
Fixed.

Wow, amazing. I should have remembered that tho lol.

andymoogle · Sep 29, 2022

Asking for 1080p screen for a handheld that is going to get lots of PS5/S|X ports doesn't make sense. A vast majority of AAA titles on Switch (including from Nintendo) are not running at 720p. There is no way devs will aim for 1080p on a handheld in 2023 and beyond. Sub-native resolution looks bad. Sure, there is DLSS this time, but it's not some magical perfect solution. Especially not at lower resolutions.

BreakAtmo · Sep 29, 2022

andymoogle said:
Asking for 1080p screen for a handheld that is going to get lots of PS5/S|X ports doesn't make sense. A vast majority of AAA titles on Switch (including from Nintendo) are not running at 720p. There is no way devs will aim for 1080p on a handheld in 2023 and beyond. Sub-native resolution looks bad. Sure, there is DLSS this time, but it's not some magical perfect solution. Especially not at lower resolutions.

Actually DLSS works surprisingly well at lower resolutions, even ones not technically supported by the official modes. It's one of the main things differentiating it from other stuff like FSR 2.0. there's footage of things like Death Standing rendered at 240p and brought up to 720p with DLSS, and while it doesn't look great it was shockingly acceptable even on my TV. Next-gen games on Switch 2 with a dynamic 540p internal resolution plus DLSS, as well as graphical cutbacks, could actually work very well.

View: https://youtu.be/_gQ202CFKzA

Comment by NVIDIA employee confirms existence of Tegra239 - the SoC likely to be used on the Nintendo Switch 2

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