Thank you. His previous video on the subject was already pretty good. Doesn't shy away from criticism, but recontextualizes the issue more broadly so that it doesn't just become about lashing out at "YouTube Celebrity #A".
Contrapoints - Opulence
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Thank you. His previous video on the subject was already pretty good. Doesn't shy away from criticism, but recontextualizes the issue more broadly so that it doesn't just become about lashing out at "YouTube Celebrity #A".
i thought she would give a nice apology, but it doesnt seem like it. I understand on being lost sometimes in emotional moments, and thats why i thought she took a step back to try to rationalize this properly, but it seems not like it. Thats sad, everyone fucks things up in life and get lost when that happens, the thing is to learn from our mistakes and change ourselves and apologize, sure there's some people that took that too far, and its hard to say sorry with that, but its the right thing to do because most people that are criticizing didnt do that, and if she really cares about them she would do that and listen to them.
she could be critical of doxxing and stuff she suffered and apologize its not incompatible too. Btw to talk or debate with someone you dont agree that still has problematic views is different of bringing that person to work with you to participate in your project, i dont know if she's realizing that difference or if she knows and doesnt seem to care and that's more problematic.
She said she's lost with the situation, and seems very emotional, so i will wait to see if things will change, but it doesnt seems likely so far, unfortunately =/
she could be critical of doxxing and stuff she suffered and apologize its not incompatible too. Btw to talk or debate with someone you dont agree that still has problematic views is different of bringing that person to work with you to participate in your project, i dont know if she's realizing that difference or if she knows and doesnt seem to care and that's more problematic.
She said she's lost with the situation, and seems very emotional, so i will wait to see if things will change, but it doesnt seems likely so far, unfortunately =/
Oh this is getting really entertaining
First you're about to see a bunch of lefties jumping in on cancel culture is real!!!!
And while regurgitating that right wing nonsense,
Coffin retweeted agreeing with this:
[...]
Essentially cancel culture is real and the leftists criticizing Contrapoints are actually gamergate kiwifarms nazis
First you're about to see a bunch of lefties jumping in on cancel culture is real!!!!
And while regurgitating that right wing nonsense,
Coffin retweeted agreeing with this:
[...]
Essentially cancel culture is real and the leftists criticizing Contrapoints are actually gamergate kiwifarms nazis
I honestly don't understand why apologizing is so hard for some. All of this wouldn't have happened if she just acknowledged the fuckup.
Just watched and a really good video.
I especially loved the inclusion of that clip from one of Natalie's videos where she says "I need radicalists like you in my life. If I stop listening to you that's when I become irrelevant" and then the person asks 'OK, what's next?'.
Seems like the ideas about having an organized, united left is more important than the actual values promoted by that left? And if you're hurting that united left you're in bed with the fash? I don't even fucking know what's going on anymore.
There's a lot that doesn't sit right with me but I can't for the life of me understand the shade thrown at cis people tweeting stuff like trans/nb rights. Like yeah of course that's not enough to change hearts and minds but maybe we're just, happy to see it? Maybe just knowing a creator you like has your back or at the very least doesn't hate your (for folks you care abouts) fucking guts for no reason is a huge relief. We can decide for ourselves what they find meaningful and sincere and I'm not sure what the cynicism towards solidarity was meant to accomplish
This talking piont feels the same as when the idiots at red scare call antifa piontless larpers
Good point, thanks. Yeah. I mean, I might have seen her point if I hadn't witnessed the relief such statements seem to bring to non-binary people such as yourself ("it's just words, enbies don't care", basically) but clearly, even a tiny statement like that has a positive effect. And it shows to me that, by and large, enbies and trans people are not even expecting Contra and others to be the perfect allies that never say or do anything wrong. I'm almost shocked at how low the bar seems to be for some of you, but honestly it shows to me that many of you have strong characters. Even the person in that super passionate Twitter thread a while ago (it was posted in here) basically said as much: y'all are just asking for a little bit of consideration, a few words of encouragement, and not to let those who would dismiss you get away scot-free. Not that that would be enough in the long run of course, but it seems most of you are just asking to be acknowledged and validated. I don't see anyone requiring people to throw parties for supposedly fragile enbie snowflakes.
That's my interpretation anyways. Feel free to let me know if I'm off the mark.
NB: Well, this is pretty fucked up.
Wynn: You're confusing the situation, will explain later.
YT: Let her grow. Wait for the video.
NB: waits
Wynn: 🤷‍♀️ Stop being mean to me and Buck.
NB: Well, fuck this lol.
YT: Stop acting like nazis!
Wynn: You're confusing the situation, will explain later.
YT: Let her grow. Wait for the video.
NB: waits
Wynn: 🤷‍♀️ Stop being mean to me and Buck.
NB: Well, fuck this lol.
YT: Stop acting like nazis!
Fucking yuck. I've been a big supporter of Natalie for a while until the recent controversies popped up which gave me pause but this isn't an excusable thing. Fuck off with this "SJW" shit.
God i really wish philosophy tube and hbomberguy would say something already because this shit is getting more unforgivable and i dont want to drag them in mentally
I also just cant respect someone who says "sjw" and fucking means it, especially at nonbinarys expense
Edit: maybe that's selfish of me to care what someone who isn't directly responsible thinks but its also frustrating when they are the people i think could make the most difference. Other then jack saint I'm not seeing a lot of public defending of nonbinary people but rather defence of someone whose been acting gross for a long time.
I also just cant respect someone who says "sjw" and fucking means it, especially at nonbinarys expense
Edit: maybe that's selfish of me to care what someone who isn't directly responsible thinks but its also frustrating when they are the people i think could make the most difference. Other then jack saint I'm not seeing a lot of public defending of nonbinary people but rather defence of someone whose been acting gross for a long time.
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I genuinely don't think "SJW" is derogatory in this case. A lot of leftists describe themselves as "SJW".
the use of certain terms like virtue signaling, sjw (unironic) just pure clown shit lol. Then again I'm usually quite wary about putting youtubers (regardless of political orientation) on a pedestal.
You haven't heard leftists refer to themselves as SJWs? Really?
A lot of leftists have used it to refer to themselves in order to undermine its effectiveness as an insult. To the point where the only people who use it as a legitimate insult get their political discourse exclusively from Ben Shapiro.
I've only ever heard them referring to themselves as such ironically. I've also heard them acknowledge that those among the right would refer to them as SJW's, but that's not really themselves calling themselves that, just acknowledging they will be called that by others.
I'm with Kyuuji. The reason leftists don't call themselves that because it's a bullshit term. The Alt-right is fighting for what they see as social justice, it's just that their idea of a just society is one where they grind the faces of minorities into the ground with their bootheels. Only nihilists don't believe in anything and they aren't a populous group. Everyone else who has a belief of how society would be better naturally want that belief realized. And the only reason it's designated to leftists is because they want to be framed as extremists for....wanting things to change for the better. It's stupid and nobody respectable I've seen identifies with it sincerely.
Could you give some examples of a lot of these leftists using it? I've not come across it frequently, and as Veelk says, only ever ironically or sarcastically.
This really isn't the case. The term hasn't been reclaimed to the point of anything.
Going to say that most of the time, when someone is calling themselves that for any reason, they usually actually go with "social justice warrior" and not SJW. Using the initialism instead of the full name misses the mockery of how their boogeyman term lacks any sort of actual negatve connotation if you don't just condense it down.
There's not a lot of actual unironic use of the initalism "SJW".
I don't really feel like doing homework for the sake of an internet disagreement so I hope you'll understand if I politely decline that request.
I don't really see how it would be homework to reference someone if it's as widespread and reclaimed as you suggest.
Either way, your perception of the term and its majority use is skewed. I've not come across any leftists referring to themselves as SJW's unironically or without sarcasm. Which isn't to say there aren't any doing so but it's not widespread and the term certainly hasn't been reclaimed to the point where it's only some niche using it as an insult.
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Oddish: "A lot of leftist use the word SJW to describe themselves"
Everyone: "No they don't, can you back up your claim"
Oddish: *runs away*
Everyone: "No they don't, can you back up your claim"
Oddish: *runs away*
I honestly am pretty disappointed at how easily Harry threw Natalie under the bus in this situation, given it was pretty clear she didn't know about Buck Angel's tweets when she edited in literally 2 seconds of audio into her video. It seems perfectly reasonable to take at face value she wouldn't think to research it further than that and it being an honest mistake.
It is one thing to condemn him (Buck) but quite another to imply that Wynn betrayed Harry personally in this situation. And that's basically what he did here in an effort to protect his brand/image.
Harris (Hbomberguy) didn't throw Natalie Wynn under a bus.
Huh? In what way did Harry throw Natalie under the bus? I don't think she denied knowing who Buck was or for what reason he's a divisive/toxic figure.
To be fair I know of several leftists who have jokingly used SJW among themselves to be ironic, myself included. And Natalie's style is so fucking irony-laden that it's possible she didn't mean it as a pejorative. But an attempt at an apology or addressing something that clearly means so much to so many people really shouldn't have such irony in it.
I'm not really sure how his tweets on the subject could have possibly be read as throwing her under the bus. Otherwise it was just "sucks I'm being associated with Buck Angel through no fault of my own, I don't agree with his views at all". Which is... absolutely fair. I should hope no one on this forum would want to be associated with Buck Angel. It's great he helped bring trans men into the public eye. It doesn't excuse the harm he's doing to non-binary and genderqueer folks by spouting the kind of rhetoric he does.
I don't think it's a stretch to read him saying this was "forced" on him as blaming Natalie, which feels pretty weaselly and I understand why she'd see this as a betrayal on his part.
That's him calling Buck Angel a shithead, not Natalie, I'm pretty sure.
Pretty much, tbqh.
Well both are shitheads. There's nothing wrong with this tweet.
In my experience it's more that people who are "on the left" in a more general sense of being progressive socially refer to themselves as SJWs, often deliberately to signal that they're not wholly on board with actual Leftism in the anti capitalist sense. Contrapoints definitely strikes me as exactly such a person.
Yeh, so then don't come in and gaslight about it being used unironically by a lot of prominent leftists, proud to refer to themselves as 'SJW' as some widespread reclamation project that's rendered it only an insult in niche/extreme cases.
Arguing over her potentially using 'SJW' in some prideful context when she's out there also slamming people for virtue signalling and wanting safe spaces.
All while continuing to try and push this bullshit narrative divide between older and younger trans people and understanding non-binary identities.
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I don't see how you got that out of either my or mewshuji's comments, especially since I haven't even posted in this thread until this point. Are you confusing one or both of us with someone else?
I'm referring to the discussion that you both jumped into and what it was originally saying.
Well, is he wrong?
If someone asked me to do a fun little voice over in a video, and I retroactively found out it directly associated me with someone with as trashy a history as Buck, yeah I'd feel pretty shitty about that too.
By the sound of it, Contra didn't tell the other guest voices a thing about inviting someone highly controversial. Considering Buck is apparently on rather good terms with Glinner/Retweeted by him, it wouldn't take a rocket scientist to figure Hbomb would want nothing to do with him.
"The discussion and what it was originally saying" is whether leftists often call themselves SJWs. My point is that people often have different ideas about what it means to be a true leftist. To just ignore that and act as if my comment didn't essentially agree with you is pretty confusing.
It's in my Twitter bio. "Tall. Bi. SJW. Rubbish at games. Occasionally funny." 🤷
I mean if someone calls me an SJW I'd be like "hell yeah I am why aren't you? " but I do full well see it as a perjorative
I'm not ignoring that. I'm saying that what you're saying isn't what was originally being said which was that prominent leftists have reclaimed SJW as a term to be proud of, to the point where it's only used as an insult in some niche/extreme cases.
Which is what people were taking issue with, especially when it's accompanied by incredulity.
I'm also saying that it doesn't matter because you can argue reams about how she's using 'SJW' nicely (or whatever) but it matters little when she's also there slamming people for virtue signalling or wanting safe spaces.
When she's actively continuing to push some fictional division between old and young trans people over non-binary identities and then positioning herself as some bridge between them. Conjuring it up and using it to give herself a buffer on ignorance and then extending that to some pretty shitty people.