Contrapoints - Opulence

[ArchedThunder]

Harry seems good, still. Shaun as well. I seem to remember Dan aka Three Arrows also posting nonbinary support shortly after the Buck Angel thing. Also, Thought Slime deserves more love.

Click to shrink...

Don't forget Jack Saint.

 

[FeistyBoots]

I just watched the entire Contrapoints statement after having read it on the Twitter and Era echo-chamber and I've gotta say: She really seems to be falling apart and everyone dogpiling on her for this is fully complicit in feeding into this online culture of harassment and the consequences it generates.

My heart breaks seeing her like this.

I live in an overwhelmingly homophobic and transphobic country (South Africa), so much so that if you are queer or trans and a POC, you're probably dead if your local community finds you. And I can tell you this: Natalie's work is known and praised in our local trans and queer communities. It is no exaggeration when I say that her contributions have played no small part in helping grow and foster what is a thriving and beautiful queer community here in Cape Town. People love her, and rightfully so.

Not a single person that has come out as trans, queer, nonbinary and so on as a result of Natalie's work over here is going to remember her for a 12 second voiceover by some truscum asshole. She is not in any way exempt from criticism (and the good-faith criticism that has been levelled are valid) but I feel that the way this "criticism" manifests itself online is toxic and abusive as fuck. And it clearly has been seeing the state of her on that stream. Simply saying that she should have a thicker skin is the SAME shit GamgerGaters were saying while tormenting women and queer folks online.

To try and cancel someone over a 12 second voiceover and in turn discard all of the work they've done for the trans community while also going out of one's way to harass them and those closest to them is not only deeply suspicious to me (yo GamerGaters its been a while), but it's also indicative of how godawful most online communities are (left, right, centrist - regardless). This is not the way to have a conversation or to direct criticism.

The day this online culture of 'mob accountability' results in losing someone who is a genuine ally is the day I'm done with all of these online communities.



This is the kind of thing I'm talking about. Sweet baby Jesus this is such an unfathomably stupid take it makes my head hurt. It is beyond me that someone would believe stupid shit like this after paying even the slightest bit of attention to Natalie's work.

The fact that people on the so-called "left" are willing to behave the way these disgusting conservative mouthpieces and their communities do to push a clear ally over the brink just indicates that they won't be satisfied until she's either switched to the position you describe or dead.

The left really often does enjoy eating itself (and being co-opted by the right to destroy its own allies), no doubt

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Looks like her "poor me, why do people pick on me" (just because I keep being bigoted against nonbinary people) act is working.

 

[Messofanego]

Era isn't an echo chamber, and people posting in a forum discussion aren't complicit in any harrassment campaign.


That's cool. Natalie's work has also been seen as a huge positive here for the majority of time she's been up and posting videos. I know many who directly support her, or did so up until the recent video.


Except she is, because of people like yourself.

Trans people aren't allowed to even discuss an issue on an unrelated forum without having people try to shut us down or police exactly how we're allowed to express our frustration. That's all people are doing here - posting on a forum. Yet you have you, and many before you, start coming in and talking about how that's harrassment, and invoking things like trans people being murdered.

You don't get to determine whether something is good faith or bad faith simply because one trans person is being polite and the other more curt in their frustrations. People are allowed to post in frustration and it should come as no surprise that when people feel that same irritation over time, that will manifest in some blunt responses. Again though, we're discussing something on a forum. We're not on Twitter sending vile abuse at her daily, we're discussing it within our community. If you're decrying harrassment then decry harrassment, don't use "cancel culture" to muddy the water between the two.

Painting people here posting in a thread on Era with that same brush is innacurate and pointless, few here will go to bat for the slime on Twitter that's just shouting abuse at Natalie. Which is why we've included Twitter threads that are considered and help spell out the issue. Something there's an abundance of both here and there when you're not coming in looking for some rabid coke-addled byproduct of the 'outrage machine'.


Here we go back into the nebulous again. Who in this thread is trying to cancel someone, instead of expressing what they will do based on the frustration they feel? What does it even mean to cancel someone? People aren't obligated to keep watching her content, or keep paying her money to produce it.

You speak of godawful communities and how conversations or criticisms should be directed or levelled. Yet in the same paragraph you nod toward 'Gamergate 2.0'. You repeatedly handwave the concerns of trans people in this thread, pointing to trans people in worse situations as some barometer for how the rest of us should feel.

You speak as if you get to determine which allies we're allowed to criticize, how we do it and when - that's the position you're taking when you step back. You have no leg to stand on when talking about the elements that pollute discourse as your need to associate everything to some extreme is an element of it. People aren't allowed to simply post here without being compared to vile mass harrassment campaigns and being told that they're godawful, the reason you don't want to be in internet communities and more.

If you're speaking about harrassment then speak to harrassment. Don't throw out the vague and meaningless "cancel" as a way to validate comparing us to Gamergate.


The day you realise that you don't get to determine who's the best ally for trans people and how/when/where other people express frustration online is the day you realise you don't have to.



"Willing to behave this way"

Again, someone posts something in a blunt manner on a forum and you're having some meltdown over it.

Your paragraphs-long rant is far more direct, targetting and insulting than anything anyone here has put together, yet you get to paint us as the people souring online communities. You directly dismiss, insult and put people down here while positioning yourself as being some pacifist tired of the fighting around you. All for what?

It can't be to shield Natalie from it otherwise you'd be on Twitter actually engaging with people who are sending her vile things directly. Instead you're on here, shouting down people that are doing no more than sharing their thoughts between each other. Insulting and dismissing them while telling them they're the ones ruining online discourse.


Again, throughout this you display a need to associate innocuous and benign acts to an extreme. You've mentioned harrassment campaigns, Gamergate, trans people being murdered and now Natalie being dead. All over a post here where some trans people have expressed disappointment and irritation at something an online personality has done.


Cute that they speak for people that have previously expressed the same sentiment they're referring to? No, it's cute that you feel comfortable using members of the trans/nb community as a means to silence and police other people within that same commnity. Your toss was never available to give nor something anyone wanted.


It speaks volumes that this is your go-to example you use to validate your stance for the thread:

This is your example of cancel culture? Someone posting something blunt, a strong opinion when they're irritated or frustrated?

This is why you've moaned about cancel culture, nodded to Gamergate 2.0, dismissed the concerns of the thread at large, invoked the murder of trans people, mentioned Natalie dying, insulted trans people on the forum and generally insinuated that the thread is emblematic of the worst parts of online discourse?

It's pathetic. Let people express frustration on a forum without needing to try and police how they do so, drawing some bullshit red lines to actual harrassment campaigns in order to make yourself feel better about shouting down a thread of trans folk.

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Excellent post! ✊🏽

 

[excelsiorlef]

Personally I think people here should stop trying to cancel Trans folk who are criticizing a joke

 

[Icemonk191]

Era isn't an echo chamber, and people posting in a forum discussion aren't complicit in any harrassment campaign.


That's cool. Natalie's work has also been seen as a huge positive here for the majority of time she's been up and posting videos. I know many who directly support her, or did so up until the recent video.


Except she is, because of people like yourself.

Trans people aren't allowed to even discuss an issue on an unrelated forum without having people try to shut us down or police exactly how we're allowed to express our frustration. That's all people are doing here - posting on a forum. Yet you have you, and many before you, start coming in and talking about how that's harrassment, and invoking things like trans people being murdered.

You don't get to determine whether something is good faith or bad faith simply because one trans person is being polite and the other more curt in their frustrations. People are allowed to post in frustration and it should come as no surprise that when people feel that same irritation over time, that will manifest in some blunt responses. Again though, we're discussing something on a forum. We're not on Twitter sending vile abuse at her daily, we're discussing it within our community. If you're decrying harrassment then decry harrassment, don't use "cancel culture" to muddy the water between the two.

Painting people here posting in a thread on Era with that same brush is innacurate and pointless, few here will go to bat for the slime on Twitter that's just shouting abuse at Natalie. Which is why we've included Twitter threads that are considered and help spell out the issue. Something there's an abundance of both here and there when you're not coming in looking for some rabid coke-addled byproduct of the 'outrage machine'.


Here we go back into the nebulous again. Who in this thread is trying to cancel someone, instead of expressing what they will do based on the frustration they feel? What does it even mean to cancel someone? People aren't obligated to keep watching her content, or keep paying her money to produce it.

You speak of godawful communities and how conversations or criticisms should be directed or levelled. Yet in the same paragraph you nod toward 'Gamergate 2.0'. You repeatedly handwave the concerns of trans people in this thread, pointing to trans people in worse situations as some barometer for how the rest of us should feel.

You speak as if you get to determine which allies we're allowed to criticize, how we do it and when - that's the position you're taking when you step back. You have no leg to stand on when talking about the elements that pollute discourse as your need to associate everything to some extreme is an element of it. People aren't allowed to simply post here without being compared to vile mass harrassment campaigns and being told that they're godawful, the reason you don't want to be in internet communities and more.

If you're speaking about harrassment then speak to harrassment. Don't throw out the vague and meaningless "cancel" as a way to validate comparing us to Gamergate.


The day you realise that you don't get to determine who's the best ally for trans people and how/when/where other people express frustration online is the day you realise you don't have to.



"Willing to behave this way"

Again, someone posts something in a blunt manner on a forum and you're having some meltdown over it.

Your paragraphs-long rant is far more direct, targetting and insulting than anything anyone here has put together, yet you get to paint us as the people souring online communities. You directly dismiss, insult and put people down here while positioning yourself as being some pacifist tired of the fighting around you. All for what?

It can't be to shield Natalie from it otherwise you'd be on Twitter actually engaging with people who are sending her vile things directly. Instead you're on here, shouting down people that are doing no more than sharing their thoughts between each other. Insulting and dismissing them while telling them they're the ones ruining online discourse.


Again, throughout this you display a need to associate innocuous and benign acts to an extreme. You've mentioned harrassment campaigns, Gamergate, trans people being murdered and now Natalie being dead. All over a post here where some trans people have expressed disappointment and irritation at something an online personality has done.


Cute that they speak for people that have previously expressed the same sentiment they're referring to? No, it's cute that you feel comfortable using members of the trans/nb community as a means to silence and police other people within that same commnity. Your toss was never available to give nor something anyone wanted.


It speaks volumes that this is your go-to example you use to validate your stance for the thread:

This is your example of cancel culture? Someone posting something blunt, a strong opinion when they're irritated or frustrated?

This is why you've moaned about cancel culture, nodded to Gamergate 2.0, dismissed the concerns of the thread at large, invoked the murder of trans people, mentioned Natalie dying, insulted trans people on the forum and generally insinuated that the thread is emblematic of the worst parts of online discourse?

It's pathetic. Let people express frustration on a forum without needing to try and police how they do so, drawing some bullshit red lines to actual harrassment campaigns in order to make yourself feel better about shouting down a thread of trans folk.

Click to shrink...

You have a lot more patience dealing with this kind of shit than I do. Great post.

 

[Deleted member 60096]

I keep wondering how this all would've played out if she featured a known racist instead of truscum

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Honestly I don't think this would have changed much, this incident has turned out the way it has more because of the more prominent leftubers becoming more up themselves and refusing to accept good faith criticism and because of how blind Contra stans to the possibility that she can be in the wrong ever. She could have brought on fucking Richard Spencer and I don't think it would have unfolded all that differently

I do already subscribe to Shaun. So that is good to hear. He lacks the inflated egos of the rest of the lot.

Click to shrink...

I definitely wouldn't say he lacks the ego of the rest, its just even when he makes tweets that show it, he isn't spouting problematic shit at the same time so it doesn't hurt anyone.

Era isn't an echo chamber, and people posting in a forum discussion aren't complicit in any harrassment campaign.


That's cool. Natalie's work has also been seen as a huge positive here for the majority of time she's been up and posting videos. I know many who directly support her, or did so up until the recent video.


Except she is, because of people like yourself.

Trans people aren't allowed to even discuss an issue on an unrelated forum without having people try to shut us down or police exactly how we're allowed to express our frustration. That's all people are doing here - posting on a forum. Yet you have you, and many before you, start coming in and talking about how that's harrassment, and invoking things like trans people being murdered.

You don't get to determine whether something is good faith or bad faith simply because one trans person is being polite and the other more curt in their frustrations. People are allowed to post in frustration and it should come as no surprise that when people feel that same irritation over time, that will manifest in some blunt responses. Again though, we're discussing something on a forum. We're not on Twitter sending vile abuse at her daily, we're discussing it within our community. If you're decrying harrassment then decry harrassment, don't use "cancel culture" to muddy the water between the two.

Painting people here posting in a thread on Era with that same brush is innacurate and pointless, few here will go to bat for the slime on Twitter that's just shouting abuse at Natalie. Which is why we've included Twitter threads that are considered and help spell out the issue. Something there's an abundance of both here and there when you're not coming in looking for some rabid coke-addled byproduct of the 'outrage machine'.


Here we go back into the nebulous again. Who in this thread is trying to cancel someone, instead of expressing what they will do based on the frustration they feel? What does it even mean to cancel someone? People aren't obligated to keep watching her content, or keep paying her money to produce it.

You speak of godawful communities and how conversations or criticisms should be directed or levelled. Yet in the same paragraph you nod toward 'Gamergate 2.0'. You repeatedly handwave the concerns of trans people in this thread, pointing to trans people in worse situations as some barometer for how the rest of us should feel.

You speak as if you get to determine which allies we're allowed to criticize, how we do it and when - that's the position you're taking when you step back. You have no leg to stand on when talking about the elements that pollute discourse as your need to associate everything to some extreme is an element of it. People aren't allowed to simply post here without being compared to vile mass harrassment campaigns and being told that they're godawful, the reason you don't want to be in internet communities and more.

If you're speaking about harrassment then speak to harrassment. Don't throw out the vague and meaningless "cancel" as a way to validate comparing us to Gamergate.


The day you realise that you don't get to determine who's the best ally for trans people and how/when/where other people express frustration online is the day you realise you don't have to.



"Willing to behave this way"

Again, someone posts something in a blunt manner on a forum and you're having some meltdown over it.

Your paragraphs-long rant is far more direct, targetting and insulting than anything anyone here has put together, yet you get to paint us as the people souring online communities. You directly dismiss, insult and put people down here while positioning yourself as being some pacifist tired of the fighting around you. All for what?

It can't be to shield Natalie from it otherwise you'd be on Twitter actually engaging with people who are sending her vile things directly. Instead you're on here, shouting down people that are doing no more than sharing their thoughts between each other. Insulting and dismissing them while telling them they're the ones ruining online discourse.


Again, throughout this you display a need to associate innocuous and benign acts to an extreme. You've mentioned harrassment campaigns, Gamergate, trans people being murdered and now Natalie being dead. All over a post here where some trans people have expressed disappointment and irritation at something an online personality has done.


Cute that they speak for people that have previously expressed the same sentiment they're referring to? No, it's cute that you feel comfortable using members of the trans/nb community as a means to silence and police other people within that same commnity. Your toss was never available to give nor something anyone wanted.


It speaks volumes that this is your go-to example you use to validate your stance for the thread:

This is your example of cancel culture? Someone posting something blunt, a strong opinion when they're irritated or frustrated?

This is why you've moaned about cancel culture, nodded to Gamergate 2.0, dismissed the concerns of the thread at large, invoked the murder of trans people, mentioned Natalie dying, insulted trans people on the forum and generally insinuated that the thread is emblematic of the worst parts of online discourse?

It's pathetic. Let people express frustration on a forum without needing to try and police how they do so, drawing some bullshit red lines to actual harrassment campaigns in order to make yourself feel better about shouting down a thread of trans folk.

Click to shrink...

Also this is a masterpiece

 

[Neoriceisgood]

Era isn't an echo chamber, and people posting in a forum discussion aren't complicit in any harrassment campaign.


That's cool. Natalie's work has also been seen as a huge positive here for the majority of time she's been up and posting videos. I know many who directly support her, or did so up until the recent video.


Except she is, because of people like yourself.

Trans people aren't allowed to even discuss an issue on an unrelated forum without having people try to shut us down or police exactly how we're allowed to express our frustration. That's all people are doing here - posting on a forum. Yet you have you, and many before you, start coming in and talking about how that's harrassment, and invoking things like trans people being murdered.

You don't get to determine whether something is good faith or bad faith simply because one trans person is being polite and the other more curt in their frustrations. People are allowed to post in frustration and it should come as no surprise that when people feel that same irritation over time, that will manifest in some blunt responses. Again though, we're discussing something on a forum. We're not on Twitter sending vile abuse at her daily, we're discussing it within our community. If you're decrying harrassment then decry harrassment, don't use "cancel culture" to muddy the water between the two.

Painting people here posting in a thread on Era with that same brush is innacurate and pointless, few here will go to bat for the slime on Twitter that's just shouting abuse at Natalie. Which is why we've included Twitter threads that are considered and help spell out the issue. Something there's an abundance of both here and there when you're not coming in looking for some rabid coke-addled byproduct of the 'outrage machine'.


Here we go back into the nebulous again. Who in this thread is trying to cancel someone, instead of expressing what they will do based on the frustration they feel? What does it even mean to cancel someone? People aren't obligated to keep watching her content, or keep paying her money to produce it.

You speak of godawful communities and how conversations or criticisms should be directed or levelled. Yet in the same paragraph you nod toward 'Gamergate 2.0'. You repeatedly handwave the concerns of trans people in this thread, pointing to trans people in worse situations as some barometer for how the rest of us should feel.

You speak as if you get to determine which allies we're allowed to criticize, how we do it and when - that's the position you're taking when you step back. You have no leg to stand on when talking about the elements that pollute discourse as your need to associate everything to some extreme is an element of it. People aren't allowed to simply post here without being compared to vile mass harrassment campaigns and being told that they're godawful, the reason you don't want to be in internet communities and more.

If you're speaking about harrassment then speak to harrassment. Don't throw out the vague and meaningless "cancel" as a way to validate comparing us to Gamergate.


The day you realise that you don't get to determine who's the best ally for trans people and how/when/where other people express frustration online is the day you realise you don't have to.



"Willing to behave this way"

Again, someone posts something in a blunt manner on a forum and you're having some meltdown over it.

Your paragraphs-long rant is far more direct, targetting and insulting than anything anyone here has put together, yet you get to paint us as the people souring online communities. You directly dismiss, insult and put people down here while positioning yourself as being some pacifist tired of the fighting around you. All for what?

It can't be to shield Natalie from it otherwise you'd be on Twitter actually engaging with people who are sending her vile things directly. Instead you're on here, shouting down people that are doing no more than sharing their thoughts between each other. Insulting and dismissing them while telling them they're the ones ruining online discourse.


Again, throughout this you display a need to associate innocuous and benign acts to an extreme. You've mentioned harrassment campaigns, Gamergate, trans people being murdered and now Natalie being dead. All over a post here where some trans people have expressed disappointment and irritation at something an online personality has done.


Cute that they speak for people that have previously expressed the same sentiment they're referring to? No, it's cute that you feel comfortable using members of the trans/nb community as a means to silence and police other people within that same commnity. Your toss was never available to give nor something anyone wanted.


It speaks volumes that this is your go-to example you use to validate your stance for the thread:

This is your example of cancel culture? Someone posting something blunt, a strong opinion when they're irritated or frustrated?

This is why you've moaned about cancel culture, nodded to Gamergate 2.0, dismissed the concerns of the thread at large, invoked the murder of trans people, mentioned Natalie dying, insulted trans people on the forum and generally insinuated that the thread is emblematic of the worst parts of online discourse?

It's pathetic. Let people express frustration on a forum without needing to try and police how they do so, drawing some bullshit red lines to actual harrassment campaigns in order to make yourself feel better about shouting down a thread of trans folk.

Click to shrink...

Yeah just like many others, didn't really have the energy or patience to react in depth; but this post nails why that post annoyed me too. Well done.

(And kudos to Shevek for understanding and the apology, always nice to see people willing to understand mistakes.)


I'd like to think... HOPE that nobody in this thread actually thinks sending harassment/threats to Contra or any other Breadtuber over this is somehow an appropriate or okay reaction, I've definitely not seen any post imply/state they support it; So it's kind of a weird one to connect to posts here.

 

[Deleted member 60096]

I'd like to think... HOPE that nobody in this thread actually thinks sending harassment/threats to Contra or any other Breadtuber over this is somehow an appropriate or okay reaction, I've definitely not seen any post imply/state they support it; So it's kind of a weird one to connect to posts here.

Click to shrink...

Yeah nobody that I've seen in this thread or similar ones where the topic has come up ever suggest that they wished harm on Contra in anyway so the people acting like anybody here are the ones abusing Natalie is just silly

 

[Deleted member 32561]

Thank you Kyuuji for that post, it articulated a lot of what I was thinking excellently. And thank you Shevek for your own apology.

The post kinda gobsmacked me because I'm pretty sure anyone advocating for harassing or even hassling Natalie in this thread would've been actioned a while ago. There's a difference between expressing anger or sadness and, well, harassment or otherwise being toxic. Not trying to harp on anyone here, it's just something in general I think people need to learn the difference- both for themselves, and when interacting with others.

 

[lowmelody]

I swear to fuckin God "cancelling" "outrage" and calls to "calm down" both in long winded and shit post form should be an auto ban in trans matters. Enough bumbling willful dismissive ignorance already.

 

[Princess Bubblegum]

Era isn't an echo chamber, and people posting in a forum discussion aren't complicit in any harrassment campaign.


That's cool. Natalie's work has also been seen as a huge positive here for the majority of time she's been up and posting videos. I know many who directly support her, or did so up until the recent video.


Except she is, because of people like yourself.

Trans people aren't allowed to even discuss an issue on an unrelated forum without having people try to shut us down or police exactly how we're allowed to express our frustration. That's all people are doing here - posting on a forum. Yet you have you, and many before you, start coming in and talking about how that's harrassment, and invoking things like trans people being murdered.

You don't get to determine whether something is good faith or bad faith simply because one trans person is being polite and the other more curt in their frustrations. People are allowed to post in frustration and it should come as no surprise that when people feel that same irritation over time, that will manifest in some blunt responses. Again though, we're discussing something on a forum. We're not on Twitter sending vile abuse at her daily, we're discussing it within our community. If you're decrying harrassment then decry harrassment, don't use "cancel culture" to muddy the water between the two.

Painting people here posting in a thread on Era with that same brush is innacurate and pointless, few here will go to bat for the slime on Twitter that's just shouting abuse at Natalie. Which is why we've included Twitter threads that are considered and help spell out the issue. Something there's an abundance of both here and there when you're not coming in looking for some rabid coke-addled byproduct of the 'outrage machine'.


Here we go back into the nebulous again. Who in this thread is trying to cancel someone, instead of expressing what they will do based on the frustration they feel? What does it even mean to cancel someone? People aren't obligated to keep watching her content, or keep paying her money to produce it.

You speak of godawful communities and how conversations or criticisms should be directed or levelled. Yet in the same paragraph you nod toward 'Gamergate 2.0'. You repeatedly handwave the concerns of trans people in this thread, pointing to trans people in worse situations as some barometer for how the rest of us should feel.

You speak as if you get to determine which allies we're allowed to criticize, how we do it and when - that's the position you're taking when you step back. You have no leg to stand on when talking about the elements that pollute discourse as your need to associate everything to some extreme is an element of it. People aren't allowed to simply post here without being compared to vile mass harrassment campaigns and being told that they're godawful, the reason you don't want to be in internet communities and more.

If you're speaking about harrassment then speak to harrassment. Don't throw out the vague and meaningless "cancel" as a way to validate comparing us to Gamergate.


The day you realise that you don't get to determine who's the best ally for trans people and how/when/where other people express frustration online is the day you realise you don't have to.



"Willing to behave this way"

Again, someone posts something in a blunt manner on a forum and you're having some meltdown over it.

Your paragraphs-long rant is far more direct, targetting and insulting than anything anyone here has put together, yet you get to paint us as the people souring online communities. You directly dismiss, insult and put people down here while positioning yourself as being some pacifist tired of the fighting around you. All for what?

It can't be to shield Natalie from it otherwise you'd be on Twitter actually engaging with people who are sending her vile things directly. Instead you're on here, shouting down people that are doing no more than sharing their thoughts between each other. Insulting and dismissing them while telling them they're the ones ruining online discourse.


Again, throughout this you display a need to associate innocuous and benign acts to an extreme. You've mentioned harrassment campaigns, Gamergate, trans people being murdered and now Natalie being dead. All over a post here where some trans people have expressed disappointment and irritation at something an online personality has done.


Cute that they speak for people that have previously expressed the same sentiment they're referring to? No, it's cute that you feel comfortable using members of the trans/nb community as a means to silence and police other people within that same commnity. Your toss was never available to give nor something anyone wanted.


It speaks volumes that this is your go-to example you use to validate your stance for the thread:

This is your example of cancel culture? Someone posting something blunt, a strong opinion when they're irritated or frustrated?

This is why you've moaned about cancel culture, nodded to Gamergate 2.0, dismissed the concerns of the thread at large, invoked the murder of trans people, mentioned Natalie dying, insulted trans people on the forum and generally insinuated that the thread is emblematic of the worst parts of online discourse?

It's pathetic. Let people express frustration on a forum without needing to try and police how they do so, drawing some bullshit red lines to actual harrassment campaigns in order to make yourself feel better about shouting down a thread of trans folk.

Click to shrink...

🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥

 

[Dirtyshubb]

 

[Bradbury]

Didn't she said the exactly same thing last time?

 

[Deleted member 60096]

Guess that solidifies that she will never apologise then

 

[Princess Bubblegum]

Good, if she won't adapt then she's better off leaving social media platforms like Twitter.

Guess that solidifies that she will never apologise then

Click to shrink...

I'm sure there will be more passive aggression towards her critics in her next video.

 

[Kurdel]

Click to shrink...

Came to post this.

Like, I can empathize with women wanting out of social media because of the bullshit, but this just comes off as "I am too dangerous to my own brand, better jump ship!" type of deal.

 

[Deleted member 48897]

Good, if she won't adapt then she's better off leaving social media platforms like Twitter.

Click to shrink...

Heck, I'm confused because I thought the troublesome opinion-haver (or whatever she said about herself when she came back) was going to have someone managing her tweets for her.

 

[Deleted member 60096]

Heck, I'm confused because I thought the troublesome opinion-haver (or whatever she said about herself when she came back) was going to have someone managing her tweets for her.

Click to shrink...

I believe she's talked before about seeking out harmful shit said about her on the internet so I feel like a pr manager was never gonna last, since part of her seems drawn to the hate as some sort of unhealthy emotional self harm

 

[Kyuuji]

She's an adult. If she feels she can't just not stumble over non-binary people and would rather leave the platform fair enough. This wasn't just the odd accident though, and throwing your hands up and saying "I've had enough" with a quick aside about loving non-binary people still comes across as playing the aggrieved party in the absence of a simple sorry.

 

[Deleted member 48897]

I believe she's talked before about seeking out harmful shit said about her on the internet so I feel like a pr manager was never gonna last, since part of her seems drawn to the hate as some sort of unhealthy emotional self harm

Click to shrink...

So she'll be back in a month then huh

 

[Deleted member 20630]

Good, if she won't adapt then she's better off leaving social media platforms like Twitter.

I'm sure there will be more passive aggression towards her critics in her next video.

Click to shrink...

Will she be more or less passive aggressive than PT's recent video, though? That's the question.

 

[Deleted member 60096]

She's an adult. If she feels she can't just not stumble over non-binary people and would rather leave the platform fair enough. This wasn't just the odd accident though, and throwing your hands up and saying "I've had enough" with a quick aside about loving non-binary people still comes across as playing the aggrieved party in the absence of a simple sorry.

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Yeah, the big thing about her response to this whole thing makes it clear that while whether she has an unconscious bias against NBs is unclear, she clearly is far too prideful to admit she's wrong, as she has never apologised ever. Every single time she has messed up, not just this time, she never actually apologises, she'll dance around it and say oh I regret or I feel sad about but she can't seem to bring herself to ever truly just say I'm sorry I fucked up

So she'll be back in a month then huh

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Probably, though her most loyal stans will use this as a further incident to point to and say that all NBs are crazy, not that they'll ever admit thats what they mean even as they say it almost outright

 

[Kyuuji]

Countdown until a thread is made on her leaving Twitter and the bullshit circus starts again.

Yeah, the big thing about her response to this whole thing makes it clear that while whether she has an unconscious bias against NBs is unclear, she clearly is far too prideful to admit she's wrong, as she has never apologised ever. Every single time she has messed up, not just this time, she never actually apologises, she'll dance around it and say oh I regret or I feel sad about but she can't seem to bring herself to ever truly just say I'm sorry I fucked up

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It's like a classic shit sandwich off the back of a few entree's of questionable bites.

I support non-binary people.

Oh, let me just introduce this well known asshole that thinks you all don't exist onto my show so you get to see your name on the credits featuring this gutter trash transphobe. I'll paywall a response, hold it hostage behind next months pay check and defend him in a subsequent stream, imploring you to think about how he feels

I'm leaving Twitter now because I've had enough but btw I do love non-binary people.

 

[Deleted member 2426]

Came to post this.

Like, I can empathize with women wanting out of social media because of the bullshit, but this just comes off as "I am too dangerous to my own brand, better jump ship!" type of deal.

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Or maybe she's done with the harassment.

 

[Sloth Guevara]

Watched the apology vid.
Girl looks in bad shape, being drunk and all.

I appreciate her trying to explain where she is coming from tho.
Don't agree with all her methods but I couldn't do better so what do I know?

 

[Deleted member 60096]

Countdown until a thread is made on her leaving Twitter and the bullshit circus starts again.

It's like a classic shit sandwich off the back of a few entree's of questionable bites.

I support non-binary people.

Oh, let me just introduce this well known asshole that thinks you all don't exist onto my show so you get to see your name on the credits featuring this gutter trash transphobe. I'll paywall a response, hold it hostage behind next months pay check and defend him in a subsequent stream, imploring you to think about how he feels

I'm leaving Twitter now because I've had enough but btw I do love non-binary people.

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the paywalling the initial response after not responding for so long and then practically gushing over him during the stream which I believe was also paywalled? was honestly so much worse in my opinion than the initial cameo and tweet honouring him that started this. But she was drunk so thats all people focus on

 

[Icemonk191]

Countdown until a thread is made on her leaving Twitter and the bullshit circus starts again.

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I'd say we make a drinking game where we take a shot every time someone says "cancel culture" but I'm pretty sure we would die of alcohol poisoning before the end of the first page.

 

[Kurdel]

Or maybe she's done with the harassment.

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Did you take away from my post that I wasn't aware of the harrassment?

 

[Deleted member 2426]

Countdown until a thread is made on her leaving Twitter and the bullshit circus starts again.

It's like a classic shit sandwich off the back of a few entree's of questionable bites.

I support non-binary people.

Oh, let me just introduce this well known asshole that thinks you all don't exist onto my show so you get to see your name on the credits featuring this gutter trash transphobe. I'll paywall a response, hold it hostage behind next months pay check and defend him in a subsequent stream, imploring you to think about how he feels

I'm leaving Twitter now because I've had enough but btw I do love non-binary people.

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I don't know why she requires this level of virulent response though. Okay cool she fucked up, but does this dumb fucky fucky makes her an enemy or something?

 

[Deleted member 60096]

I don't know why she requires this level of virulent response though. Okay cool she fucked up, but does this dumb fucky fucky makes her an enemy or something?

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Nobody here is attacking her, you should be taking this up with the people that are instead of people venting their frustations somewhere self contained

 

[Kyuuji]

I don't know why she requires this level of virulent response though. Okay cool she fucked up, but does this dumb fucky fucky makes her an enemy or something?

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Virulent? I literally just outlined the course of events.
I didn't call her an enemy either.

Respond to the post instead of some imaginary extreme you're perceiving.

 

[Icemonk191]

I don't know why she requires this level of virulent response though. Okay cool she fucked up, but does this dumb fucky fucky makes her an enemy or something?

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When you keep fucking up all the time, kind of.

 

[Osu 16 Bit]

I feel bad about all this. I discovered Contra just when I needed something like her, she helped me so much. I can't help but want to support her. I also am not super offended by anything she has done, although I can usually understand why people are and she's said/done stuff I wish she hadn't. I can never tell if I just don't agree with the people who dislike her or if I'm biased and giving her a free pass because of what she meant to me. Either way, it's heart breaking.

 

[Dream Machine]

Watched the apology vid.
Girl looks in bad shape, being drunk and all.

I appreciate her trying to explain where she is coming from tho.
Don't agree with all her methods but I couldn't do better so what do I know?

Click to shrink...

where is the apology video?

 

[Deleted member 60096]

where is the apology video?

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Its on her patreon if your a patron or you can watch people's reactions to it on youtube to hear what she says or theres the transcript:
https://pastebin.com/7rT69LU3

 

[Deleted member 48897]

Its on her patreon if your a patron

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She still hasn't made it public?!

 

[Deleted member 60096]

She still hasn't made it public?!

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don't think so, the only public way of actually viewing the video that I'm aware of is this:


otherwise you have to read the transcript

 

[Kyuuji]

From page 9 and still just as relevant.

 

[Syril]

Its on her patreon if your a patron or you can watch people's reactions to it on youtube to hear what she says or theres the transcript:
https://pastebin.com/7rT69LU3

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Oh right, that. Was that supposed to be an apology?

 

[LudicrousSpeed]

It seems worth pointing out that what's being described here as an "apology video" is lacking any actual apology.

 

[Deleted member 60096]

Oh right, that. Was that supposed to be an apology?

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I don't know whether she intended it to be but its the closest we'll ever get and the majority of the lefttube community thinks its enough and think it means that NBs made her slip back into alcholism

It seems worth pointing out that what's being described here as an "apology video" is lacking any actual apology.

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Yep, but does contain a possible dig at Hbomb? Can't know for sure but considering how bitter she got in Opulence at being "guillotined" snide remarks clearly aren't something shes above doing

 

[Deleted member 48897]

It seems worth pointing out that what's being described here as an "apology video" is lacking any actual apology.

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And again, despite the idea that people are calling Buck Angel a "supervillain" that nowhere did she discuss arguably his biggest crime of outing Lana Wachowski to the tabloid press, nor the way he pals around with TERFs and the like. He's no Richard Spencer, but he is in a role similar to where Milo Y was, a grifter quisling who has the attention of the press for very bad reasons.

and i still can't get over that he's only there, supposedly, because he sounds like roger waters

 

[Deleted member 60096]

And again, despite the idea that people are calling Buck Angel a "supervillain" that nowhere did she discuss arguably his biggest crime of outing Lana Wachowski to the tabloid press, nor the way he pals around with TERFs and the like. He's no Richard Spencer, but he is in a role similar to where Milo Y was, a grifter quisling who has the attention of the press for very bad reasons.

and i still can't get over that he's only there, supposedly, because he sounds like roger waters

Click to shrink...

Something I'd also like to point out about the outing Lana Wachowski shit is I actually looked at the horrible den of hate that is the farm of kiwis cause I was curious if they were taking advantage of the situation to pile in on the harassment directed at Natalie and even they understood that her "apology" video not mentioning this was a terrible move. KF has more understanding of how to correctly apologise for this shit than she does. That says something

 

[Deleted member 32561]

Weird how she criticized people for "just" saying they support nb people and that's all she's doing here, really, that's productive. It's still good of her to say it though.

I do hope she takes care of herself, of course. It just really sucks she can't seem to understand that inherently by standing by Buck like this (ignoring his bigotry towards not only nonbinary trans people but binary trans people as well), she IS choosing a side and hurting people, even if indirectly. This isn't one of those gray areas. :/

She still hasn't made it public?!

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This is what probably blows my mind the most. She's essentially monetized her explanation into why she personally doesn't think she's being nbphobic or transphobic here.

 

[Princess Bubblegum]

Something I'd also like to point out about the outing Lana Wachowski shit is I actually looked at the horrible den of hate that is the farm of kiwis cause I was curious if they were taking advantage of the situation to pile in on the harassment directed at Natalie and even they understood that her "apology" video not mentioning this was a terrible move. KF has more understanding of how to correctly apologise for this shit than she does. That says something

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Holy shit.

 

[Kyuuji]

Considering the chain of events of non-binary discontent culminating in the featuring of Buck fucking Angel and a paywalled ramble about how we shouldn't be harsh to him and should consider how he feels - my eyebrow remains raised at anyone that thinks non-binary aren't justified in both expressing criticism and personally being done supporting her.

 

[Deleted member 48897]

KF has more understanding of how to correctly apologise for this shit than she does. That says something

Click to shrink...

Now that's what I call deradicalizing

 

[Deleted member 60096]

Now that's what I call deradicalizing

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lol. It was weird too cause they seemed to enjoy that she was "triggering" the "NB-maniacs" and were misgendering her and calling her trans fans slurs but still understood that her apology was bad and exactly why it was bad? It was so jarring

 

[divination]

Lol bye. Although I assume she'll come crawling back when the cash starts to dry up.

 

[Deleted member 60096]

Lol bye. Although I assume she'll come crawling back when the cash starts to dry up.

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thats not gonna happen, she's lost basically no patrons during this whole debacle, girl is making bank and she's still gonna make content I'm pretty sure, she just wants to hide until the controvery blows over so she doesn't have to apologise