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Corrida Colloseum Mafia |OT| My Heart in SHAMBLES, trying to make it out in One Piece.
- Thread starter SalvaPot
- Start date
So you mean in that you kept your Flavor name, role name and alignment? Or something else. a Yes or no answer will be fine.
I think red is the best, but Blue was pretty good. Underrated color at least.
You absolute mad lad.
This is a very good point. I think a majority of people would have written their roles as town roles if they knew it would get switched around, except protective. Scum do not want self or strong-protective PRs, and I believe looking at those powers and seeing if they got night protection is an easy out of scum writing it.
I was originally confused because I had misread what Salva said to me and thought I wouldn't keep my flavor name but then he clarified that only my power was getting swapped.
Mine is pretty standard town. Pretty bland, in fact. It is SO bland that it almost makes me think it could have been designed by scum to be purposely given to town except it has the chance to out a scum player, so I think it was just someone feeling not particularly creative.
I don't love loki's big post but I think it's more disagreement than agenda but we'll see. I can go into details later when I am not in the kitchen.
The role i made was town based because I was told I was town before making it, were other people not? Or have I misunderstood what you're saying?
uuughgjfhg
would a scum!turm make a bomb role not knowing it would get swapped to someone else so he could use it to fuck with town if he gets lunched?
if so, why come forward this early to give town a heads up about Zipped? Town points knowing that his role went to a Townie (and being helpful gives points) or to save himself some flak if zipped dies and blows someone up? Counterpoint is turm gets scumread for breathing and i assume he knows this and wouldn't put himself out here so early knowing it could easily backfire. also there's a bomb
or is it a town!turm who wanted to be a bomb for fun but realized his role could've gone to scum to fuck up town and he's trying to be helpful here? in this case it makes sense to claim it so early and get that info out there despite the role having a bomb being kinda sus.
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm gut says town seems more likely.
would a scum!turm make a bomb role not knowing it would get swapped to someone else so he could use it to fuck with town if he gets lunched?
if so, why come forward this early to give town a heads up about Zipped? Town points knowing that his role went to a Townie (and being helpful gives points) or to save himself some flak if zipped dies and blows someone up? Counterpoint is turm gets scumread for breathing and i assume he knows this and wouldn't put himself out here so early knowing it could easily backfire. also there's a bomb
or is it a town!turm who wanted to be a bomb for fun but realized his role could've gone to scum to fuck up town and he's trying to be helpful here? in this case it makes sense to claim it so early and get that info out there despite the role having a bomb being kinda sus.
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm gut says town seems more likely.
Uhhh, we were told beforehand that all roles would get swapped around, but I think you're referring to our alignment not being switched around too.
That's true I guess. Something to consider when looking at peeps roles.
Oh okay then. As for mine, I've realized my power is pretty NAI on whether it'd work for scum or town (the closest version of it I could find on wiki is used by both sides) so basically it could be written by anyone. *shrug*
although in a roundabout way now i feel worse about zipped??? maybe he was trying to get lunched today to go boom and that would explain being all over the place since we typically latch on to that stuff as scummy.
I just figured this out and I felt like such a fool.
I guess the devil fruit is in the details.
I checked the wiki and my role is a fairly normal town role as well.
Oh right I guess I could have made a scum role even though I was town, I just didn't think of that, I just saw I was town and made a town role
Ah, that's a good point. Also, past just revealing it willingly, I've been thinking they may have constructed roles to make identifying the people who have their roles easier. I thought my role had something like this, but...
I have this.
LOL even with deciding if our powers are scummy or not, it's not going to be a completely black and white issue.
Some powers will def be town ones, and some will def been scummy seeming ones, but I also feel like there will be powers like say my role or even the one I made really that are more NAI because they can be used by both factions.
Some powers will def be town ones, and some will def been scummy seeming ones, but I also feel like there will be powers like say my role or even the one I made really that are more NAI because they can be used by both factions.
Hi all. I'm pretty excited for this game!
I think it's important to get clear on whether roles were switched between factions or not. The answer is: they were. This is not ambiguous. Salva said so very clearly, multiple times, including before the game started. While this game is now bastard due to the awesome roles that we all made, it didn't start with a bastard set up; Salva is not lying to us about how the roles were swapped.
Dr. Monkey you've been ambiguous about why you think it's useful to focus attention on who has the roles that we each created. First you said that roles were likely switched only intra-faction. Then you walked this claim back and said that you just meant that we should factor our guesses about who has the roles we created into our reads generally. I agree with this second set of advice, but I'd like to hear from you about whether you agree that all 20 roles in the game were switched randomly, without regard for faction or alignment.
People are finding that their flavor is limited or missing because flavor and role names were not swapped. Only powers were swapped. We all have the flavor and role name that we made originally:
I am against a mass claim and will not reveal the role that I created.
Zipped/turmoil's claim is NAI to me so far, both as to Zipped for receiving the role and turmoil for making it. I don't think it will be obvious whether roles were created by town or mafia, for a few reasons:
1. The roles may or may not have been balanced to fit the alignment of the receiver
2. Mafia knew that they or their teammates could end up with roles they created, so they probably didn't make totally ineffectual roles-- rather just roles that were inherently more useful than mafia.
3. Some players may have tried to make roles that would be fun for any alignment, out of sportsmanship
I think it's important to get clear on whether roles were switched between factions or not. The answer is: they were. This is not ambiguous. Salva said so very clearly, multiple times, including before the game started. While this game is now bastard due to the awesome roles that we all made, it didn't start with a bastard set up; Salva is not lying to us about how the roles were swapped.
Dr. Monkey you've been ambiguous about why you think it's useful to focus attention on who has the roles that we each created. First you said that roles were likely switched only intra-faction. Then you walked this claim back and said that you just meant that we should factor our guesses about who has the roles we created into our reads generally. I agree with this second set of advice, but I'd like to hear from you about whether you agree that all 20 roles in the game were switched randomly, without regard for faction or alignment.
People are finding that their flavor is limited or missing because flavor and role names were not swapped. Only powers were swapped. We all have the flavor and role name that we made originally:
I am against a mass claim and will not reveal the role that I created.
Zipped/turmoil's claim is NAI to me so far, both as to Zipped for receiving the role and turmoil for making it. I don't think it will be obvious whether roles were created by town or mafia, for a few reasons:
1. The roles may or may not have been balanced to fit the alignment of the receiver
2. Mafia knew that they or their teammates could end up with roles they created, so they probably didn't make totally ineffectual roles-- rather just roles that were inherently more useful than mafia.
3. Some players may have tried to make roles that would be fun for any alignment, out of sportsmanship
Why would Zipped want to go boom today? That play makes no sense for any alignment.
My only thing with zipped possibly being scum with that power Turm gave him is that why would be breadcrumb it right out the bat if he's scum? Wouldn't it be better to just sit back and play mafia and use the bomb or lunch proof if he catches heat?
I'm not going to throw out the possibility of course, scum in this community always try crazy gambits like that shit, but still it's something to consider when looking at zipped later.
I'm not going to throw out the possibility of course, scum in this community always try crazy gambits like that shit, but still it's something to consider when looking at zipped later.
I agree with this. Zipped could make a number of posts divisible by 7 without this crazy posting style & breadcrumbs calling attention to his role.
It's working on my end.
Yep, it's def something to consider. Mind you he could have done it for town cred or something >>; I lean to the former, but like I said I'm just going to factor it in when looking at his posts.
I love this. Don't confirm or deny this but I'm really hoping that there are at least 11 more restriction in the role (the prime numbers before 41).
And I'm not scum reading Turms for this role. It seems like a fun role to make and to play, even if it could hurt town. I appreciate that. I love fun roles. The role that I created was based on that concept more than worrying about it being perfect.
Eh. Maybe.
this man is town lol
Oh do you? Let's put a pin in this and we can revisit it later, maybe, I think I want to see what some other people say first.
No, there's no double meaning to anything I've said. If you expect me not to develop thoughts based on input from other players and game information uh, I don't know what to tell you. But as for my idea here, let me be clear, again:
I think in this game we have a gift. We know that someone out there, at least one person, has a role we made. This unequivocally gives town a massive amount of information they don't have usually. If you can find the person who has the role you made, you automatically have WAY more information by which to read them than you usually have.
Further, even if the swapping is TRULY random, odds are that town roles go to town. That's just math. And since we have a piece of that, looking at what that can tell us makes this more like ONUW than regular mafia. We have to look at how the thing moved and what gets done with it once it moved. You know? It's a puzzle and it's concrete and we already have the tools to start solving it, even before flips. That's huge. That's enormous. But it only happens if we give some grace, assume most players are town (they are), and hunt together as best we can.
It worked last game. And we have more information this game and should be able to do it even faster.
Also, I am going to
vote: EzekelRAGE
because I have scummy vibes on him at this point.
I agree, I think it's fun and it makes sense for him. I won't read that alignment wise either way.
When I built mine, I used something I've long wanted to include in a game but haven't been able to yet. It is built toward the very transparency that I'm talking about, too.
Or I guess maybe teamwork is a better word than transparency. I built a power that functions better if people talk about it.
So I've seen some discussion on whether or not to scumread turm based on the role he created, but what about his decision to reveal it? Would a scum player reveal a potentially damaging role like that for town cred? To me that seemed like a towny move.
I agree that town working together is a good idea, and nobody can deny that you really made it work last game. I also agree, as I said, that we should all factor the information that we have about the roles we made into our reads. I think that we should each privately be trying to figure out who got the role that we made, watching that player's behavior to see how they are using the role, and using that information to make reads on that player. I also think that we should reveal that analysis when it seems useful.
However, I also think that unneccessary ambiguity hurts our ability to do that. If we're reasoning from false premises, such as believing that the role swapping wasn't random, we won't have as accurate reads.
Most roles will go to town because most players are town. A randomly selected player is more likely to be town than mafia. But a player who received the role that I made is not more likely to be town than any other random player just because I myself am town. Do you agree with me about that? The reason I am being persnickety about it is because I'm trying to head off future situations where players are falsely accused of being mafia because they have scummy-seeming roles, or mafia players are able to claim innocence by proving that they have a role made by a town player.
He would if he thought he could get town Zipped in trouble. By revealing what the power does, he takes some heat but gets points for helping with zipped, if zipped gets scumread.
However, I'm also leaning towards turm probably being town and just making a role he wanted to make.
Ambulance, I was thinking about that. I think that if zipped is mafia, it seems very unlikely that turmoil is mafia too, unless this is some elaborate scheme with the role itself being fake. So the question is, if zipped is town, why would a mafia turmoil reveal the role? The only motivation I think of is that he was afraid that zipped would get to 41, get the most votes, and have Day 1 end with no kill. But that's pretty unlikely, especially since that wouldn't even be a bad scenario for mafia, since town would end the day with less information.
Alternatively, it could be that there are more number restrictions/powers in the role and that some of them are bad for mafia, and that's what turmoil is afraid of. I feel like Zipped might have mentioned that when he responded to Turmoil's claim, though.
The methodology I had behind my role creation was how overpowered could I make it and then dial it back as Salva told me too.
but part of this methodology was that extra one thing, like someone saying "oh just one more thing" at a Nintendo direct/reveal conference.
I wanted it to work in a way that was just
but part of this methodology was that extra one thing, like someone saying "oh just one more thing" at a Nintendo direct/reveal conference.
I wanted it to work in a way that was just
I feel that it'd be odd if both Zipped and Turm were scum. The town cred play is not worth it if scum both created and received the role - they could always mold the details of the role as they saw fit. I guess this could be their pick, but I don't see why pick this over staying silent about the power. Proactive Zipped looks a bit better than reactive Turmoil but since there was no visible pressure on Turm to say anything, I don't think even that can be used against him at this point.
D1 ending with a no lynch is the best result for scum. That's why we have a No lynch meta.
Have to admit Hawthorn that I'm a bit wary we are both agreeing so much (hello it's nice to meet you o7 love your avatar), but I definitely agree that people should be privately trying to find out who has their role.
Why I'm wary of the mass claim to find out who got what is that it gives scum way more information. As said earlier they probably know about 8 roles at most right now, so we need to be wary about them learning more.
One issue in greed island was that too many people talked about their roles either in the public thread (like Geno who got NK'd night 1) or in the private chats that had scum and while it's good to share info as that's one of towns advantages, we may also hurt towns chances if we reveal too much.
You mention this and it got me thinking,
One of the prime numbers is very much a nice to have town item, but it just as easily could be a nice to have scum item.
I expect that will be a tomorrow question.
Who is doing that? Where are the false premises we are reasoning from, though?
Caution is one thing. Don't let it turn into trying to shut down a healthy town.
To be fair, somehow Zipped seemed to notice I wrote the role
Or he just voted for me randomly
In any case, coming clean early rather than later looked like the best move.
But Turmoil7 only mentioned the day effective primes,
and of the primes between 7 and 41 one is the aforementioned could be pro town nice to have.
but the other... the other... I don't think it's as pro town as turmoil thought it was.
I'm looking at this role and can't help but think that it was made by mafia for town to get and screw over other town with...
and of the primes between 7 and 41 one is the aforementioned could be pro town nice to have.
but the other... the other... I don't think it's as pro town as turmoil thought it was.
I'm looking at this role and can't help but think that it was made by mafia for town to get and screw over other town with...
Dude, you claimed it before the game!