Movie was flawless. I loved it so much and all I can think about is seeing it again.
I don't know how but I liked it even more than the first. Definitely got me crying more than once.
Also best boxing scenes of any movie ever. Saw it in Dolby and those hits were so hard. The part where Adonis starts slamming his fists into the mat gave me endless chills.
I don't know how but I liked it even more than the first. Definitely got me crying more than once.
Also best boxing scenes of any movie ever. Saw it in Dolby and those hits were so hard. The part where Adonis starts slamming his fists into the mat gave me endless chills.
Last edited:
Saw it Wednesday when work let us out early and I liked not loved it. Like others have said, there was a lot of attempted imitation of the touch Coogler had to make a really special movie and much of it fell a bit flat for me. Thought it went a bit long, thought some of the hearing-related drama felt a bit unnatural. Fight scenes were amazing and the Dragos were so great, god damn Viktor is HUGE, and I love the ending arc.
Saw it again on Friday when my brothers wanted to see it, and I actually liked it a bit more. Actually felt shorter and less bloated than I thought the first time around. Still doesn't quite hit the highs of the first, but a really good sequel with some awesome fight scenes and some good emotional punches as well.
One minor gripe I will always have is that I wish they had thrown in at least one more montage. I know objectively there were enough but Rocky IV was like 1/3 montage, I'd have loved to hit like 1/4.
Saw it again on Friday when my brothers wanted to see it, and I actually liked it a bit more. Actually felt shorter and less bloated than I thought the first time around. Still doesn't quite hit the highs of the first, but a really good sequel with some awesome fight scenes and some good emotional punches as well.
One minor gripe I will always have is that I wish they had thrown in at least one more montage. I know objectively there were enough but Rocky IV was like 1/3 montage, I'd have loved to hit like 1/4.
That's exactly how I feel. Creed is the better movie but I think this is going to be more rewatchable for me. Just had more "Fuck ya!" Moments in it.
Slamming his gloves down and when the ref asked him a second time what's your name and he screamed Creeeed! Was the fucking bomb!!!!
It was soooooo good.
Even both of his intros to the stage were so good but when Bianca was singing.....Shieeet that was awesome
So weird to see Avon Barksdale training Wallace to be a fighter.
Great movie, had some serious emotional moments. Man, the scene where
had me weepy. Dragos were great too!
Great movie, had some serious emotional moments. Man, the scene where
they did the hearing test to their newborn and didn't get spikes
had me weepy. Dragos were great too!
I saw the film a second time, and I think I enjoyed it a little more than when I first posted about it. I still maintain that the first fight was better executed than the final one, but I was better able to appreciate the flow and pacing of the battle this time around. Enough that I take back my "more tepid than triumphant" comment; there's a fair share of triumph to go around, even if the beats are predictable.
Also, while Runnin does tend to get most of the attention when it comes to showcasing the excellence of the soundtrack, I'd like to point out that "Ice Cold" is a pretty badass song as well. This is the one that accompanies the first training montage sequence:
Also, while Runnin does tend to get most of the attention when it comes to showcasing the excellence of the soundtrack, I'd like to point out that "Ice Cold" is a pretty badass song as well. This is the one that accompanies the first training montage sequence:
Last edited:
I saw this a couple of days ago, really enjoyed it. I think every rocky film has gotten me a little emotional so I was kinda happy I got through this one without teary eyes...then the last scene with Rocky at the end got me.
Lol, I only really noticed this when they.....
.... first moved into their new home. Dunno, is it a trend out there in Cali or something?
It was alright but felt like a big step down from Creed. The movie just kind of goes through the motions and doesn't quite nail the drama like in the first film. I suppose Creed II is as good as you'd get from a Creed-Drago storyline, though. I still wish the sequel had gone in a slightly different direction instead of rehashing themes that were essentially resolved in the first film.
My biggest takeaway from Creed II is that I now hate Max Kellerman.
At least Donnie got his car back.
Among many feelings I have, I just didn't get a sense in the final fight that Donnie was really hurting Viktor. Donnie landed some nice shots but overall Viktor was clearly dealing out the bigger blows. I can buy in to the overall fatigue getting to the big guy and Donnie finally knocking him down (twice). However, I didn't really see the reason for Ivan to throw in the towel. Viktor wasn't at any risk of serious injury, and I can't imagine that Viktor would save much face in a towel TKO versus a three-knockdown TKO. That moment felt like a hamfisted callback.
Among many feelings I have, I just didn't get a sense in the final fight that Donnie was really hurting Viktor. Donnie landed some nice shots but overall Viktor was clearly dealing out the bigger blows. I can buy in to the overall fatigue getting to the big guy and Donnie finally knocking him down (twice). However, I didn't really see the reason for Ivan to throw in the towel. Viktor wasn't at any risk of serious injury, and I can't imagine that Viktor would save much face in a towel TKO versus a three-knockdown TKO. That moment felt like a hamfisted callback.
My biggest takeaway from Creed II is that I now hate Max Kellerman.
Last edited:
I actually watched Rocky 1-4 again over the past two weeks or so, dropped 5 after 5 mins, and I didn't make time to sit through Rocky, and Creed again. Saw Creed II earlier today, not bad.
The sound was great though, but I can only imagine how much better it'd have been had it been in Dolby/atmos, etc.
Still prefer 1. Nice ending though with the Dragos
The sound was great though, but I can only imagine how much better it'd have been had it been in Dolby/atmos, etc.
Still prefer 1. Nice ending though with the Dragos
Huge step down.
The boxing matches felt so half assed and rushed . "Oh hey , everyone in Russia is cheering for Adonis now" ...what?
Rocky IV did a way better job at the boxing scenes, like it isn't even close. They developed throughout the fight , nothing was remotely developed in Creed 2 during the fights .
Way too much cliche in this one. First Creed is superior in every single aspect. And come on already , Rocky and Adonis living in butt crack apartments is ridiculous.
The boxing matches felt so half assed and rushed . "Oh hey , everyone in Russia is cheering for Adonis now" ...what?
Rocky IV did a way better job at the boxing scenes, like it isn't even close. They developed throughout the fight , nothing was remotely developed in Creed 2 during the fights .
Way too much cliche in this one. First Creed is superior in every single aspect. And come on already , Rocky and Adonis living in butt crack apartments is ridiculous.
It felt like a safe sequel. I enjoyed it, but it was pretty predictable and retreaded on some of the same themes as the first. That said, it had some great moments and terrific writing.
"Honestly, I thought they could have done more with young Drago. He parallels Creed in an interesting way in that they're both (up to the last fight) fighting for their fathers legacy. If there was more of a conflict for young Drago and a plot around him coming to terms with living in his own fathers Shadow, I think that would have made for a more interesting parallel. The guy gets like 3 lines in total. You get some redemption for Drago, but there could have been more time given to it. I would have loved more scenes with Drago and Rocky."]
I saw it and I thought it was a great movie. I don't know if I like it better than the first one overall, but it was definitely better in parts and some emotional beats. Viktor especially was a major step up from the last movie's villain.
Here's the one single thing I wanted that the movie didn't give me: A non-confrontational interaction between the boxers. The only one we had was when Drago talked to Rocky in his resturant. Drago laid out how his life fell apart after he lost the match to him, and Rocky wasn't aggressive, but he didn't really reach out to him either. And that's not a bad statement on rocky necessarily, either because maybe he thought Drago wouldn't be receptive to that (which might be the case) or Rocky maybe had his own understandable resentment against the man who unrepentantly killed one of his best friends talking about how sad his life is. And Drago's resentment may be emotionally understandable, but it's also not rational. I mean, what is Drago ultimately suggesting, that rocky wronged him by not taking a fall for him?
It's a really interesting emotional dynamic that Drago is fighting to try and reclaim social respectability, Viktor is fighting to make his mom and dad proud, Creed is fighting for his sense of self-respect, and Rocky is fighting because he sees it as his old demons coming back to haunt him. But the Team Drago and Team Creed never actually interact with each other on this.
So I'd have loved to just have like a phone call where Creed actually talks to Viktor and Viktor expresses why he does what he does and Creed relates to that and so on. You could argue that it's a bit unrealistic for boxers to be too sentimental with each other like this, but come on, this is a rocky movie, what is this about if not the raw emotional turmoil that these guys go through?
I love the movie regardless, but a scene like that could have cinched it to be my favorite rocky movie period.
Here's the one single thing I wanted that the movie didn't give me: A non-confrontational interaction between the boxers. The only one we had was when Drago talked to Rocky in his resturant. Drago laid out how his life fell apart after he lost the match to him, and Rocky wasn't aggressive, but he didn't really reach out to him either. And that's not a bad statement on rocky necessarily, either because maybe he thought Drago wouldn't be receptive to that (which might be the case) or Rocky maybe had his own understandable resentment against the man who unrepentantly killed one of his best friends talking about how sad his life is. And Drago's resentment may be emotionally understandable, but it's also not rational. I mean, what is Drago ultimately suggesting, that rocky wronged him by not taking a fall for him?
It's a really interesting emotional dynamic that Drago is fighting to try and reclaim social respectability, Viktor is fighting to make his mom and dad proud, Creed is fighting for his sense of self-respect, and Rocky is fighting because he sees it as his old demons coming back to haunt him. But the Team Drago and Team Creed never actually interact with each other on this.
So I'd have loved to just have like a phone call where Creed actually talks to Viktor and Viktor expresses why he does what he does and Creed relates to that and so on. You could argue that it's a bit unrealistic for boxers to be too sentimental with each other like this, but come on, this is a rocky movie, what is this about if not the raw emotional turmoil that these guys go through?
I love the movie regardless, but a scene like that could have cinched it to be my favorite rocky movie period.
Probably have more to say tomorrow but I enjoyed this more than the first Creed in that it dealt with character threads from not only Creed but also Rocky IV and Balboa. So much dope shit for a fan of the whole series. Though I do acknowledge that Creed was a much tighter made and focused film, this one has more meat in its script (even if it does hurt the pacing and can be uneven at times) and I liked just how much they delved into the nature of fathers and sons in these films.
oh and God damn Drago's walk out music was so operatic, glorious ring entrance for him. Viktor Drago is a beast and I hope to see him in other action flicks as some sort of muscle or main henchman.
oh and God damn Drago's walk out music was so operatic, glorious ring entrance for him. Viktor Drago is a beast and I hope to see him in other action flicks as some sort of muscle or main henchman.
I was actually thinking the entire time what a great Bane he would make.
I'd prefer for a hispanic to play Bane to avoid the whitewashing aspect, but if you just look at the physical presence he commanded, he is just perfect. Especially if they get someone shorter to play Batman so he could properly tower over him.
Well, it's not like I'm saying they should be crying on each other's shoulders.
But the basic fact is that Viktor isn't really a bastard. He's angry, but he's not doing it because he's an asshole like Clubber Lang or even Drago was in Rocky IV. The conflict revolves around these two men having their worth decided by whether they can punch the other guy in the fact more than they can be punched in the face. It's really stupid when you lay it out in plain terms like that, but that's also life, and there isn't really a reason for them to hate each other. For Viktor, that value is re-enforced both by his society as well as both his closest relatives. With Adonis, that value is purely internal. Neither Rocky, Bianca, his mother, or even really his friends would think of him as less for backing out, instead just the general public.
I don't think it'd be that out of line for them to have a scene where they just shed their mutual antagonism and recognize that they are fighting for a sense of self worth that is, atleast in some respects, completely artificial, even if both of them have a genuinely love for the sport of boxing as well. Like, I'd have to watch it again to do a proper analysis, but I feel like the film clearly has a lot to say on toxic masculinity and how men often struggle with open emotional vulnerability. For god's sake, the entire movie happens because Ivan Drago blames Rocky for his wife leaving him because Drago wasn't able to bludgeon Rocky's face enough despite trying his best and decides to use Viktor as a proxy to bludgeon the face of the son of the guy who he killed, all as an attempt at a redemption story by trying to appeal to shitty people who end up casting him aside once again when he takes what's basically his first loss. Viktor explicitly calls out the insanity of it all, but has no way out of it.So I think a moment where they just...talk about that would be nice. Adonis and Viktor are both fighting for validation, but Adonis' is internal while Viktor's is external. And having them specifically discuss that when they are each other's obstacle to that validation would be interesting.
The only reason I would think not to have it, other than maybe creating a justification for the heart to heart to occur being difficult to do naturally, would be to maintain the tragic aspect. We as the audience see that both of these characters are coming to this fight from a very human place and see their plight, but to each other they simply see themselves as villains. Ivan Drago tells his son that Rocky was the guy who took everything from them while Adonis sees Ivan as little more than his father's unrepentant and unpunished murderer who is now hostile towards him. They're both cartoon villains to one another and it kinda sucks that neither get a chance to see the real person underneath. That's sad, and that too is a valid emotion for the story to draw from the audience.
But that's just me.
Last edited:
But you do get to see the real people underneath without hammering it to the audience. I face to face heart to heart talk would be unwarranted and kill the drama. You get to see what Ivan and his Son are all about without the face to face talk or whatever you wanted. It's all right there in the final scene with the Drago's.
I have to see the movie again, but there is some really good writing here from Stallone with this movie because he shows both sides and neither are cartoon's. He makes them real people and gives them just enough of a back story.
I have to see the movie again, but there is some really good writing here from Stallone with this movie because he shows both sides and neither are cartoon's. He makes them real people and gives them just enough of a back story.
No, you don't understand. Read what I wrote again, please.
"We as the audience see that both of these characters are coming to this fight from a very human place and see their plight, but to each other they simply see themselves as villains."
The narrative itself humanizes them both, I agree. I wouldn't be calling this a good movie if it didn't. But they don't humanize each other.
I don't really agree that it would "Kill the drama" as you say, because the drama of their fight mostly comes from the pressure they put on themselves, not the pressure they put on each other. I feel like it'd add to the drama if they also realized that, on top of everything else, the guy they're facing really isn't the villain that they conveniently would rather be fighting.
But like I also said, them being denied that conversation is also a valid narrative choice because of the tragedy aspect that comes from them not seeing how similar they really are. But to have that tragedy aspect requires me, as the audience member, to actually want them to have that conversation in the first place. It's just sad that these guys are at each other's throats because people who don't actually respect them either way make them be. That sucks, and since I like them both, I don't want that to happen to them, so it's tragic that it is.
So I think there would be value in them recognizing how bullshit this all is, atleast from Viktor's persective, and Viktor getting atleast a little sympathy for it, and Adonis learning about that from Viktor. The drama doesn't come from Viktor hating Creed or Creed hating Viktor. It comes from how these men view their self worth.
I think conceptually what you're describing would be good, but only if it's done, somehow, non-verbally or with very limited dialogue. To do it with a full conversation would be rather out of character for Viktor, and (i suspect) culturally out of character for him as well. It would need to happen in the same way that things are conveyed between Ivan and viktor at the end - mainly through facial expressions and actions.
Yeah I can agree to that. Like i said, it would actually be somewhat tough to contrive a believable situation where they end up in a room to talk. And even if they did, Adonis has no reason to offer an open dialogue while Viktor is something like a sapient walking wall of spikes. I get that having an emotional open dialogue with each other is not something that squares easily with the hyper masculine ideal that boxing movies usually employ, so it's a hard scene to imagine actually happening naturally.
But so much of the film is about empathy and emotional vulnerability, it's a nice sort of "if only it could have been" concept.
Yeah on the re-watch the walk out music for both of them is so awesome
If Sean Connery in Hunt for Red October is a 7 on the 1 to 10 scale of crazy Ivan I would say Dolph is a 10
Finally saw it.
Good not great. Glad they played it straight with the Dragos. It could have gone off the deep end into cheese but it didn't.
Not Coogler but not bad.
Good not great. Glad they played it straight with the Dragos. It could have gone off the deep end into cheese but it didn't.
Not Coogler but not bad.
Viktor should have been fleshed out more and how he was essentially just a pawn in Ivan's desire for redemption.
I'd argue the Dragos in this are the most fleshed out villains we've had in the entire franchise unless you count Apollo as an antagonist.
I love how scared Adonis was after that first fight.
Being knocked down from the top can hurt like that.
Also I waited all movie for the damn theme and when it came in I popped off in the theater I didn't even care.
Those montage tracks are built for your workout playlists.
Was a fun movie. Not as good as Creed I but I like where they went with it and it was still enjoyable.
My first thought was "relationship goals", then my next one was "this is anime as fuck".
Being knocked down from the top can hurt like that.
Also I waited all movie for the damn theme and when it came in I popped off in the theater I didn't even care.
Those montage tracks are built for your workout playlists.
Was a fun movie. Not as good as Creed I but I like where they went with it and it was still enjoyable.
My first thought was "relationship goals", then my next one was "this is anime as fuck".
Dude is such a beast in real life he had to lose like 25lbs to seem even with MBJ.
I kinda wished they showed more restraint with using the "break you/him" line. It's a nice callback, sure, but Ivan himself must've used the phrase at LEAST three times throughout the film to the point of fanservice repetition.
I went in quite sceptical but mostly enjoyed it. It's predictable and corny in places but the heft won me over in the end, especially as Jordan and Stallone were so fucking good.
I wish the final fight had ended with either -- a) Creed staging a brief comeback from the brutal rib shot, but realising his life is in danger and he has a family, so calling it quits, or b) retiring from boxing as soon as he beat Drago.
I never really escaped the feeling he was an asshole for still fighting.
This would be a strong stopping point for the series really. Adonis proved himself, Rocky is reunited with his fam, even the Dragos seem in a better place. I've got no interest in Creed III but I'm sure it'll happen.
Someone on Reddit said Mr. T should've been running the desert training camp, and though it's shameless fan service I would've lost my shit.
I wish the final fight had ended with either -- a) Creed staging a brief comeback from the brutal rib shot, but realising his life is in danger and he has a family, so calling it quits, or b) retiring from boxing as soon as he beat Drago.
I never really escaped the feeling he was an asshole for still fighting.
This would be a strong stopping point for the series really. Adonis proved himself, Rocky is reunited with his fam, even the Dragos seem in a better place. I've got no interest in Creed III but I'm sure it'll happen.
Someone on Reddit said Mr. T should've been running the desert training camp, and though it's shameless fan service I would've lost my shit.
Last edited:
I think I enjoyed Creed II more as a spectacle than Creed I, but I can see the first Creed being better as a film overall, but it's only by a miniscule amount.
I don't know how the fuck they'll follow this up for Creed III. Unless it's like, Clubber Lang's MMA practitioner son or something. And Rocky dies part way through.
I don't know how the fuck they'll follow this up for Creed III. Unless it's like, Clubber Lang's MMA practitioner son or something. And Rocky dies part way through.
I was thoroughly entertained, but at the same time I must admit that the film has some tonally weird moments and "too on the nose" scenes.
Also, I loved Dolph Lundgren's performance but I found it funny that after 30 years he still can't use articles in a sentence.
Also, I loved Dolph Lundgren's performance but I found it funny that after 30 years he still can't use articles in a sentence.
Just back from seeing this and loved it. Ridiculously huge fan of the series and this is instantly one of my favourites, I prefer it to Creed I. Of course the plot is fairly straight forward and there aren't many surprises but it is executed so well, I didn't want the final fight or the film to end. I'm not sure what they can do for part III.