Critical Role |OT| Is It Thursday Yet?

killerrin · Jul 27, 2019

SilentMike03 said:
With how much damage the Conclave did, I wouldn't be surprised if most of Tal'Dorei is still rebuilding.

Well how long as passed between Season 1 and Season 2? I was under the impression a good 25 years had passed, which is a massive amount of time to repair the city, get their infrastructue up and running and heal most of the wounds on the population. And thats just going by real world medieval metrics, let alone a world filled with as much Magic and power that Exandria has since a few well placed druids and mages could bulldoze the city, clear the wreckage and rebuild it from scratch in the matter of a month if they needed to and Tal'Dorei had a-lot of high powered mages working for the public. Vox Machina could have done it themselves, or really just Scanlan if he wished hard enough :P

Plus, they were doing pretty well last we checked in before the Vecna arc.The damage was cleared and it was mostly just the people they lost.

Dream Machine · Jul 27, 2019

I want to see what happened with that giant titan in Vasselheim more than Whitestone. There's some cool fantasy architecture/city planning potential

killerrin · Jul 27, 2019

Dream Machine said:
I want to see what happened with that giant titan in Vasselheim more than Whitestone. There's some cool fantasy architecture/city planning potential

I was just thinking about that last week. It would be so cool to see how they retrofitted that huge titan. Like I can imagine some sweet-ass temples or homes of nobles going up the side of the thing. I want to see it.

SilentMike03 · Jul 27, 2019

Yeah, I guess I hadn't considered they had magic that could help with that stuff.

Rinse Bassfunk · Jul 27, 2019

Dream Machine said:
Laura kept shooting Travis glances when they were having that skype call in last week, and then he tweeted out an apology afterwards. They definitely had a huddle.

Whatever the specifics, I'm glad he felt spurred into action.

I mean, it'd be hard not to have a huddle really. Like you said, really glad it came out. Feels like a great turning point for the character and will make the group dynamic really interesting moving forward.

Deleted member 1190 · Jul 27, 2019

killerrin said:
Well how long as passed between Season 1 and Season 2? I was under the impression a good 25 years had passed

C2 is roughly 20 years after C1.

TheMango55 · Jul 28, 2019

I'm furiously trying to catch up with Season 2. I just started about 3 weeks ago and I just finished episode 39.

This series is making me long for Baldur's Gate 3 so hard.

I even started Baldur's Gate 2 again, but I didn't even like 2.5 edition that much when BG2 was new, so now that I'm hearing all the new rules and stuff in 5th edition that I've never had a chance to try in a game, it doesn't really hit the spot.

Cwyll · Jul 28, 2019

Good on Fjord. Much better for a warlock to have issues with their 'mentor/master' like this. Far to many "I'll dip 2 levels of hexblade so i can use CHA" paladin and sorcerer slackers out there who just use the books for min/max with no RP considerations.

Warlocks deserve to get screwed regularly; that's the point of the pact that they made! Never sure if it's the fault of the players, or the soft DM's who don't press the point...

timedesk · Jul 28, 2019

Cwyll said:
Good on Fjord. Much better for a warlock to have issues with their 'mentor/master' like this. Far to many "I'll dip 2 levels of hexblade so i can use CHA" paladin and sorcerer slackers out there who just use the books for min/max with no RP considerations.

Warlocks deserve to get screwed regularly; that's the point of the pact that they made! Never sure if it's the fault of the players, or the soft DM's who don't press the point...

The dynamic between a warlock and their patron was what immediately stood out to me when I first read about all the classes. I have been a bit disappointed that Fjord didn't really challenge Uk'otoa for most of the campaign so far, but this episode was near perfect. Even better, I like the implication that destroying/abandoning the sword hasn't severed all of Fjord's ties to it. I don't know how long they will realistically keep Fjord powerless, but I really want to see how he adapts to being powerless for a while. At the very least I hope there is at least one combat encounter with muggle Fjord.

Wunder · Jul 28, 2019

Cwyll said:
Good on Fjord. Much better for a warlock to have issues with their 'mentor/master' like this. Far to many "I'll dip 2 levels of hexblade so i can use CHA" paladin and sorcerer slackers out there who just use the books for min/max with no RP considerations.

Warlocks deserve to get screwed regularly; that's the point of the pact that they made! Never sure if it's the fault of the players, or the soft DM's who don't press the point...

Why? Not all patrons are malevolent, and I'm even more tired of having to build stories around orphaned edgelord warlocks who sought out to devil to save them.

SilentMike03 · Jul 28, 2019

Fjord may have thought he got rid of the key, but I'm 99% sure he's still got that thing inside of him. I'm looking forward to a couple days later, Ukatoa visits him in his dreams telling him he can't run and when Fjord wakes up the sword is laying next to him again.

Dream Machine · Jul 28, 2019

Wunder said:
Why? Not all patrons are malevolent, and I'm even more tired of having to build stories around orphaned edgelord warlocks who sought out to devil to save them.

I'm pretty sure they are referring to when the patron is malevolent, like Fjord's has been this whole time. Also, the main three warlock patron choices imply that the relationship with them isn't supposed to be a cakewalk. A scheming devil, a capricious archfey, or an unknowable great old one.

And isn't at least 75% of every party made up of orphaned edgelords of one stripe or another? People can't help themselves.

SilentMike03 said:
Fjord may have thought he got rid of the key, but I'm 99% sure he's still got that thing inside of him. I'm looking forward to a couple days later, Ukatoa visits him in his dreams telling him he can't run and when Fjord wakes up the sword is laying next to him again.

Fingers crossed he's a marked man and his replacements, or Vandren, are going to start coming after him to "retrieve" the crystal from him.

Wunder · Jul 28, 2019

Dream Machine said:
I'm pretty sure they are referring to when the patron is malevolent, like Fjord's has been this whole time. Also, the main three warlock patron choices imply that the relationship with them isn't supposed to be a cakewalk. A scheming devil, a capricious archfey, or an unknowable great old one.

And isn't at least 75% of every party made up of orphaned edgelords of one stripe or another? People can't help themselves.

Fingers crossed he's a marked man and his replacements, or Vandren, are going to start coming after him to "retrieve" the crystal from him.

Vandren being activated like a fucking sleeper cell would be great

And yeah but non-PHB patrons aren't, I agree Ukatoa should be vindictive and Fjord should expect some kind of response, but they clearly are talking about 5E and the community as a whole, since hexblade is such a popular dip.

Stantastic · Jul 28, 2019

Wunder said:
Why? Not all patrons are malevolent, and I'm even more tired of having to build stories around orphaned edgelord warlocks who sought out to devil to save them.

damn right. Im playing a Fae warlock right now and the patron practically dotes on my character, its very fun.
I dont think a warlocks relationship with their patron should be antagonistic, it just should to be an actual relationship, and i think thats where things kinda break down a lot with Fjord and Ukatoa. its just a giant question mark that tells him to do bad things with far too little room for alternatives, its just a "do bad thing: yes/no" situation.

Dream Machine said:
And isn't at least 75% of every party made up of orphaned edgelords of one stripe or another? People can't help themselves

well not many people who have had a comfortable and well adjusted life go looking for perpetual dangerous adventure.

Dream Machine · Jul 28, 2019

Stantastic said:
well not many people who have had a comfortable and well adjusted life go looking for perpetual dangerous adventure.

Okay, but there are a lot of ways to convey a background that would lead to being an adventurer other than being orphaned, just like there are a lot of ways to play a warlock/patron relationship

Wunder · Jul 28, 2019

Dream Machine said:
Okay, but there are a lot of ways to convey a background that would lead to being an adventurer other than being orphaned, just like there are a lot of ways to play a warlock/patron relationship

Yeah. Orphan or "Blacked out" amnesia are my two pet peeves for character origins.

Stantastic · Jul 28, 2019

Dream Machine said:
Okay, but there are a lot of ways to convey a background that would lead to being an adventurer other than being orphaned, just like there are a lot of ways to play a warlock/patron relationship

ioh i was more adressing the edgelordy thing,
like damn near every character has some kind of tragedy in thier story but given the alternatives are usually hammy high adventure bs i cant really blame people. Character stories are easier done when the character is some kind of broken.

Wunder said:
Yeah. Orphan or "Blacked out" amnesia are my two pet peeves for character origins.

oh but i aint gonna defend the amnesia cliche tho, that shit is just ultra lame nine times out of ten.
im honestly still baffled that we have had two characters in this campaign with it.

Wunder · Jul 28, 2019

Stantastic said:
ioh i was more adressing the edgelordy thing,
like damn near every character has some kind of tragedy in thier story but given the alternatives are usually hammy high adventure bs i cant really blame people. Character stories are easier done when the character is some kind of broken.

oh but i aint gonna defend the amnesia cliche tho, that shit is just ultra lame nine times out of ten.
im honestly still baffled that we have had two characters in this campaign with it.

The amnesia origin is basically just relying on the DM to make things interesting - which is fine for CR because they have such trust between each other and know Matt as a storyteller, but as a random online game I have literally no idea what to do with it.

Brashnir · Jul 28, 2019

Dream Machine said:
Okay, but there are a lot of ways to convey a background that would lead to being an adventurer other than being orphaned.

Can confirm. I am currently in the middle of making such a character for a new campaign my buddy is going to run.

edit - he's also not an edgelord, or broken, really - other than a comically-outsized devotion to his research.

timedesk · Jul 28, 2019

Wunder said:
The amnesia origin is basically just relying on the DM to make things interesting - which is fine for CR because they have such trust between each other and know Matt as a storyteller, but as a random online game I have literally no idea what to do with it.

The one thing I like about the use of amnesia in CR is that it is only a tiny part of the character's backstory. It's super important, as we saw with the Yasha/Orphanmaker situation, but until it came up the amnesia didn't define the character. Yasha had tons of other backstory details like her time with her tribe, her wife, and even the circus with Molly. I hate it when a character is just like Jason Bourne, they can't remember anything about their life at all but have all the skills and talent of their old self.

I can only imagine how annoying it must be for most normal GMs to be expected to fill in a character's entire backstory because of an amnesia plot. The job seems hard enough, but having to do the player's work for them must make it even more annoying. Before I started playing I never really thought about how difficult it must be to manage all the plots of a D&D game, but it really must be a huge amount of work.

Arrrammis · Jul 28, 2019

timedesk said:
I can only imagine how annoying it must be for most normal GMs to be expected to fill in a character's entire backstory because of an amnesia plot. The job seems hard enough, but having to do the player's work for them must make it even more annoying. Before I started playing I never really thought about how difficult it must be to manage all the plots of a D&D game, but it really must be a huge amount of work.

It's kind of a balance. As a player, I want to give the DM plenty to build off of, but don't want to just have a blank character that the DM fills out behind the scenes. The best balance I've seen is Percy in C1, where he has a complete backstory on his own, but there's some major parts of it that Matt was able to fill out and build on the Talieson/Percy didn't know about.

Pilgrimzero · Jul 28, 2019

I thought Fjord had already switched Patrons. Huh.

timedesk · Jul 28, 2019

Arrrammis said:
It's kind of a balance. As a player, I want to give the DM plenty to build off of, but don't want to just have a blank character that the DM fills out behind the scenes. The best balance I've seen is Percy in C1, where he has a complete backstory on his own, but there's some major parts of it that Matt was able to fill out and build on the Talieson/Percy didn't know about.

That makes a lot of sense. I can see how having to rigid and defined a backstory could also have it's own problems. Percy really does seem like a great example of having structured backstory, but with plenty of room for the DM to build it into a broader narrative.

Pilgrimzero said:
I thought Fjord had already switched Patrons. Huh.

Fjord has only ever had the one patron, but the Wildmother made it clear she would take him so long as he was willing to have faith. Fjord just never really knew how to do that, or if he even really wanted to let go of the powers Uk'otoa provided. That's what made him throwing the sword such a big deal. It was the first real leap of faith the character has ever taken. He has no idea if the Wildmother is even aware of what he did, or if he will ever get his old powers back. It will be really interesting to see his next interaction with the Wildmother, and how his faith in her will manifest.

Wunder · Jul 28, 2019

timedesk said:
The one thing I like about the use of amnesia in CR is that it is only a tiny part of the character's backstory. It's super important, as we saw with the Yasha/Orphanmaker situation, but until it came up the amnesia didn't define the character. Yasha had tons of other backstory details like her time with her tribe, her wife, and even the circus with Molly. I hate it when a character is just like Jason Bourne, they can't remember anything about their life at all but have all the skills and talent of their old self.

I can only imagine how annoying it must be for most normal GMs to be expected to fill in a character's entire backstory because of an amnesia plot. The job seems hard enough, but having to do the player's work for them must make it even more annoying. Before I started playing I never really thought about how difficult it must be to manage all the plots of a D&D game, but it really must be a huge amount of work.

Yeah, it's a lot to put on a novice DM and while Matt is clearly capable, he still does things that I would be uncomfortable with putting on my players, especially a new group. I love playing with my player's backstories and introducing new characters, but creating an entire backstory wholecloth and just hoping they like it is tough.

PeskyToaster · Jul 29, 2019

Stantastic said:
well not many people who have had a comfortable and well adjusted life go looking for perpetual dangerous adventure.

I've always wanted to make a character where adventuring is like a 9-5 and they come home to a loving family.

Dream Machine · Jul 29, 2019

PeskyToaster said:
I've always wanted to make a character where adventuring is like a 9-5 and they come home to a loving family.

The problem is most DM's ears perk up at the mention of living loved ones, which I think is part of the reason so many people create "I'm alone and have no connections or memories so you can't hurt me" characters

PeskyToaster · Jul 29, 2019

Dream Machine said:
The problem is most DM's ears perk up at the mention of living loved ones, which I think is part of the reason so many people create "I'm alone and have no connections or memories so you can't hurt me" characters

Yeah, the obvious path is either they get hostaged or killed by the baddie. Then there's the mundane domestic turmoil of someone who's always gone for weeks on business trips...extremely dangerous business trips. I don't really see it as a problem though. It's fun if the dragon blows up your beautiful home, now you got some beef to work with.

Doc Kelso · Jul 29, 2019

Dream Machine said:
The problem is most DM's ears perk up at the mention of living loved ones, which I think is part of the reason so many people create "I'm alone and have no connections or memories so you can't hurt me" characters

I ran a campaign where I promised my players that I wouldn't put any family characters in immediate danger (unless the character was directly responsible). It was pulling back the curtain a bit, but I really enjoyed getting to play supportive family members and watching my player's character have something to protect that wasn't a contrivance of the story/the power of friendship. Letting them fight an injustice or evil because their family would be hurt by it was really satisfying.

Stantastic · Jul 29, 2019

PeskyToaster said:
I've always wanted to make a character where adventuring is like a 9-5 and they come home to a loving family.

yeah thats why i said "not many".
its hilarious how often you can have a character like that in a party, and they are automatically the actually unique one thanks to being the only normal person in the group.

Dream Machine · Jul 29, 2019

Stantastic said:
yeah thats why i said "not many".
its hilarious how often you can have a character like that in a party, and they are automatically the actually unique one thanks to being the only normal person in the group.

'Wait... you have like connections, people to fight for, and shit? ...the fuck?"

*later side conversation*

"I don't trust him"

timedesk · Jul 29, 2019

So I had a chance to rewatch the episode, and have a question. When Fjord pulls the sword out of his chest and starts bleeding on the ground it makes a large amount of smoke. His wound starts to numb, and the smoke surrounds him almost blocking out the forge. Fjord then throws the blade and the smoke clears.

My question is: was the smoke the Wildmother or Uk'otoa? The smoke seemed to be blocking the magma, and could be viewed as vaguely threatening, but it also coincided with some attempt to mend Fjord's wound. Was it his patron trying to stop him from killing himself, but not give in and return his powers? The scene feels just vague enough for me not to be sure what powers were at play at that moment.

SilentMike03 · Jul 29, 2019

Yeah I'm kinda torn. My initial thought was the Wildmother, cause healing magic isn't exactly Ukotoa's thing. But part of me thinks it was just Ukotoa healing him just enough so Fjord wouldn't die. The black smoke I think was a byproduct of Fjord's Ukotoa-magic infused blood hitting the Divine Lava and burning off.

timedesk · Jul 29, 2019

SilentMike03 said:
Yeah I'm kinda torn. My initial thought was the Wildmother, cause healing magic isn't exactly Ukotoa's thing. But part of me thinks it was just Ukotoa healing him just enough so Fjord wouldn't die. The black smoke I think was a byproduct of Fjord's Ukotoa-magic infused blood hitting the Divine Lava and burning off.

That's a really cool idea about Fjord's blood being almost tainted by his pact. Cad said that Uk'otoa's influence ran deeper than just the sword. Maybe he'll have to find a way to purify himself before he can really become bonded to the Wildmother. It might be interesting to see what influence Uk'otoa still has on Fjord's mind or dreams, now that the pact blade seems to be gone.

SilentMike03 · Jul 29, 2019

timedesk said:
That's a really cool idea about Fjord's blood being almost tainted by his pact. Cad said that Uk'otoa's influence ran deeper than just the sword. Maybe he'll have to find a way to purify himself before he can really become bonded to the Wildmother. It might be interesting to see what influence Uk'otoa still has on Fjord's mind or dreams, now that the pact blade seems to be gone.

It's such a trope, but I'd love to see Fjord have to like meditate under a waterfall for like 8 hours or something to switch patrons.

Dream Machine · Jul 29, 2019

I think Matt made the smoke and what happened to the sword intentionally vague so that he could have more time to think about it

SilkySm00th · Jul 29, 2019

Yea the smoke was weird touch. I wasn't sure either but it definitely felt to me like Ukatoa attempting to obscure and literally cloud his vision/judgement. I still wish he would be drawn towards a different god rather than just the one that is super prevalent in his group atm. I understand how his character go there and it makes enough sense to not feel cheap or anything like that but I really enjoy the idea of multiple gods pulling this group in different directions.

Still fantastic development tho...

SilentMike03 said:
It's such a trope, but I'd love to see Fjord have to like meditate under a waterfall for like 8 hours or something to switch patrons.

Yah kind of agree here lol ... BUT i will say this was a lot more important to me when i was starving for Travis/Fjord to actually try and interact or reach out to his fackin Patron. All he ever did was stumble clumsily through dreams where old Ukie had to literally force himself into the game to have a conversation with his Chosen One

I would have like... cast water breathing on myself, walked out into the ocean and let myself float to the bottom, summoned the sword and stuck it into the silt amongst crabbos and fishes and stuff and then been like:
"I would like to speak but not like... with my words. With my mouth or anything... but to like..reach out to Ukatoa"
I feel like Matt would have rewarded that kind of RP and initiative.

Still!! My fuckin boi is full of piss and vinegar now and I cannot wait to watch him navigate being nothing more than a damage sponge with magic items :-D :-D

Also: every time i remember that they are playing live on friday instead of in studio on thursday i die a little inside.

Dream Machine · Jul 29, 2019

Prepare for minute long applause breaks every time Fjord speaks in his new accent or anyone makes a joke about him speaking in his new accent.

SilentMike03 · Jul 29, 2019

SilkySm00th said:
Yea the smoke was weird touch. I wasn't sure either but it definitely felt to me like Ukatoa attempting to obscure and literally cloud his vision/judgement. I still wish he would be drawn towards a different god rather than just the one that is super prevalent in his group atm. I understand how his character go there and it makes enough sense to not feel cheap or anything like that but I really enjoy the idea of multiple gods pulling this group in different directions.

Still fantastic development tho...

I will always maintain that I wanted to see him dig into the Luxon stuff more while they were in Rosohna. But Fjord getting into a deity that already has a presence in the group feels natural to me. Had he gone out of his way to pick a patron that wasn't part of the group already, it would feel like he was doing it just to stand out. I also think having two people worshipping the same deity could lead to some good roleplay in how they differ.

Yah kind of agree here lol ... BUT i will say this was a lot more important to me when i was starving for Travis/Fjord to actually try and interact or reach out to his fackin Patron. All he ever did was stumble clumsily through dreams where old Ukie had to literally force himself into the game to have a conversation with his Chosen One

I would have like... cast water breathing on myself, walked out into the ocean and let myself float to the bottom, summoned the sword and stuck it into the silt amongst crabbos and fishes and stuff and then been like:
"I would like to speak but not like... with my words. With my mouth or anything... but to like..reach out to Ukatoa"
I feel like Matt would have rewarded that kind of RP and initiative.

I understand why Fjord didn't do any of that stuff and it makes his relationship with his patron kinda weird. He never sought out this power. He never sought out Ukotoa in the beginning. The powers were gifted to him. There was no conversation, no bargain struck. He just woke up after a shipwreck with powers from a being he had zero knowledge of. I think that's partly why Fjord seemed to be so passive with Ukotoa. Well that and partly because I don't think Travis knew what he wanted to do with the character.

CoolOff · Jul 29, 2019

SilentMike03 said:
I also think having two people worshipping the same deity could lead to some good roleplay in how they differ.

Especially if Cad starts having a crisis of faith regarding "destiny" and whatever at some point.

SilentMike03 · Jul 29, 2019

CoolOff said:
Especially if Cad starts having a crisis of faith regarding "destiny" and whatever at some point.

I'm hoping for this. Maybe we get a little jealous Cad after he was rebuffed earlier by the Wildmother.

Dream Machine · Jul 29, 2019

I'm hoping we get an actual raised voice Caduceus by the end of the campaign

timedesk · Jul 29, 2019

Dream Machine said:
Prepare for minute long applause breaks every time Fjord speaks in his new accent or anyone makes a joke about him speaking in his new accent.

This is something I'm actually dreading. I don't hate all the live shows, but the crowd definitely impacts how they play their characters. I actually really hope Matt doesn't have Fjord solidify his relationship until next week. Just let the live show be fun interactions in the Elf/Dwarf village, maybe find the smith and be given a quest, and maybe a fun combat encounter with powerless Fjord. Save all the really serious character moments for when they're back at the studio.

CoolOff said:
Especially if Cad starts having a crisis of faith regarding "destiny" and whatever at some point.

This could be ma really incredible RP scenario for Fjord and Cad. Cad has been so unconditionally supportive of Fjord's journey to the Wildmother. If he started to falter in his faith, and Fjord had to step up and support his friend, it would be great.

Also a reminder that the Call of Cthulhu one shot is airing in a little less than an hour. The cast looks great, and it should be lots of fun. It will be interesting to see how much Taliesin can freak Travis out.

Wunder · Jul 29, 2019

Ooo CoC! Looking forward to a lot of madness and horror

everyone is dressed up!

Dream Machine · Jul 29, 2019

Wunder said:
Ooo CoC! Looking forward to a lot of madness and horror

everyone is dressed up!

Completely forgot about this!

Thanks for the reminder

Wunder · Jul 29, 2019

Travis is definitely going to betray the group

RoninZ · Jul 29, 2019

The set and costumes look magnificent. This game is great so far.

Wunder · Jul 29, 2019

what the fuckkkk

Kard8p3 · Jul 29, 2019

This is the first time I've ever watched this, it's super interesting so far.

Anything else of theirs I should check out?

timedesk · Jul 30, 2019

Kard8p3 said:
This is the first time I've ever watched this, it's super interesting so far.

Anything else of theirs I should check out?

Hi, glad you're enjoying the game tonight. This one is just a oneshot, so the mechanics and tone are a little different than their usual fare. If you're enjoying the sort of spooky horror of this though you might like some elements of their current Dungeons and Dragons campaign. It is far more comical and has a fantasy setting, but it also features a lot of pretty creepy monsters and themes.

If you like something a bit more classic fantasy then you might enjoy their First D&D campaign. They've also done plenty one shot episodes. They more often tend to be comedic, but some of them can be pretty intense.

Kard8p3 · Jul 30, 2019

timedesk said:
Hi, glad you're enjoying the game tonight. This one is just a oneshot, so the mechanics and tone are a little different than their usual fare. If you're enjoying the sort of spooky horror of this though you might like some elements of their current Dungeons and Dragons campaign. It is far more comical and has a fantasy setting, but it also features a lot of pretty creepy monsters and themes.

If you like something a bit more classic fantasy then you might enjoy their First D&D campaign. They've also done plenty one shot episodes. They more often tend to be comedic, but some of them can be pretty intense.

Yeah I saw it was a oneshot sadly. I'll check out their newest campaign, I'm assuming some of it has been put on YT?

Critical Role |OT| Is It Thursday Yet?

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