The repeated offenses made this game go from one of my most anticipated ever—like 'dream game' status—to 'wait and see.' I forgave and even defended the company the first time. And the second. And then it happened like twice more.
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Cyberpunk 2077 looks amazing, but I’m conflicted about supporting CD Projekt Red with the doubt they’ve cast around their social stances.
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Idk..... I don't think its right to champion any kinda belief, movement or ideology which is ones right to do while exercising your free will... but then on the other hand take a non tolerant stance to someone that doesn't share the same ideals that you do.
I'ma black guy, and I am totally against this notion that any artist (yes artist cause thats what game designers are) should modify their vision to cater to some sort of social construct or racial/gender acknowledgment. I also do not care about the whole crunch thing, I don't approve of it and I hope teams can do more to curtail it but I can understand it. If I were to have a problem it would be if the devs aren't being paid more for those crunch weeks. In which case my issue wouldn't be "stop crunch" but rather would be "pay more during crunch".
I shouldn't get started.... but I think people need to leave these artists to do whatever the fuck they want to do, if people have an issue then they should go do it themselves. an example, remember that death stranding trailer with a naked Reedus and stuff..... I can promise you someone would have been up in arms if that were a naked woman... tits and all.
There are some things that are obviously wrong, but I feel a lot of these things are just people forcing notions, beliefs...etc or even seeing issues where there are none.
Take for instance the first line in this thread which kinda adheres to my pint and thus stance on these things. How can you tell someone they aren't needed in this thread because they don't care, but expect someone to care about what you have to say? How can you expect your opinions to be respected and acknowledged and then ignore the opinions of others? I mean if I were you, I would rather want to know why those people don't care about issues like these and maybe even educate them. Or like a group of women ensuring a ban of media girls/models when at no point actually representing the desires and wants of the women that actually do that for a living. And the worst part is that the women even pushing that agenda are probably women that have never had to model a day in their lives or even have the body for it. I would have respected something like that more if they pushed for better wages or something like that.
I'ma black guy, and I am totally against this notion that any artist (yes artist cause thats what game designers are) should modify their vision to cater to some sort of social construct or racial/gender acknowledgment. I also do not care about the whole crunch thing, I don't approve of it and I hope teams can do more to curtail it but I can understand it. If I were to have a problem it would be if the devs aren't being paid more for those crunch weeks. In which case my issue wouldn't be "stop crunch" but rather would be "pay more during crunch".
I shouldn't get started.... but I think people need to leave these artists to do whatever the fuck they want to do, if people have an issue then they should go do it themselves. an example, remember that death stranding trailer with a naked Reedus and stuff..... I can promise you someone would have been up in arms if that were a naked woman... tits and all.
There are some things that are obviously wrong, but I feel a lot of these things are just people forcing notions, beliefs...etc or even seeing issues where there are none.
Take for instance the first line in this thread which kinda adheres to my pint and thus stance on these things. How can you tell someone they aren't needed in this thread because they don't care, but expect someone to care about what you have to say? How can you expect your opinions to be respected and acknowledged and then ignore the opinions of others? I mean if I were you, I would rather want to know why those people don't care about issues like these and maybe even educate them. Or like a group of women ensuring a ban of media girls/models when at no point actually representing the desires and wants of the women that actually do that for a living. And the worst part is that the women even pushing that agenda are probably women that have never had to model a day in their lives or even have the body for it. I would have respected something like that more if they pushed for better wages or something like that.
Well, considering the way things are going, that might not be unrealistic. But honestly your last sentence Made me think about the issues with the game itself, thank you for that. Its weird that we accept status quo representation in a futuristic game.
I just think some people find it more difficult to see cocksucker in a non-homophobic context because, well, it's an inherently homophobic word. It's not like saying arsehole, jerk, fucker, wanker, what-have-you (I'm not a native speaker so my vocabulary may be a bit limited here). Even if you don't use it with the intention of implying that it's bad to literally suck cock, by using it as an insult you're still condoning and supporting that sort of mindset because the mindset is baked into the literal meaning of the word. It's like when people claim it's not homophobic to use "gay" as a synonym for stupid. Yeah, it fucking is!
Cunt I'm a bit ambivalent about. It's supposedly a huge no-no in the US, but I personally don't see a big difference between calling someone a cunt and calling someone a dick. Maybe there's some historical context I don't know about.
They showed a wide variety of races in the trailer at last years E3, no? And the 40 minute gameplay demo was with a latino female main character. I don't think representation is going to be much of an issue with this game.
In regards to OP, I remember when this happened and it was mostly only one or two people. I'm not going to condemn 100s of others for the mistakes of a very select few.
The company itself refused to comment or apologise. Publicly denouncing transphobia is an incredibly easy thing to do but they refused to do so and even tried shitty damage control that just made things worse. The company should absolutely be held accountable.
That is no excuse if they are selling to a worldwide audience.
Arguably he doesn't. while Mike Pondsmith obviously knows how to stay true to his vision for Cyberpunk 20XX there is a very solid argument to be made that Cyberpunk 20XX is only, somewhat genre appropriately, about the chrome. Most "cyberpunk" TRPG's and CRPG's don't really adopt anything more than the aesthetic and the barest trappings of the literary genre they originate from. The tabletop game certainly doesn't really do much to examine many of the themes people might expect from neo-Cyberpunk stuff, it's treatment of transhumanism and cybernetics is at best regressive for example.
If its not a slur whats insulting about it? Or did you think it was an insult that magically wasnt drawing the insulting part from the act its describing?
I think you're right OP to bring this up. All the excitement about the game and Keanu Reeves shouldn't make us forget.about the bad track record of CDPR when it comes to social stances. So we should look closely how they do a better job with Cyberpunk 2077 and their next games.
After deadwood you internet cocksucker.
Damn it like 2 pages too late.
"If you don't care about these issues one way or the other, don't bother telling us that in this thread."
That's some grade A BS right there. You can't come to a public forum with an issue and tell people not to speak if they don't agree with you. I do care about these issues, but I'm absolutely against this holier-than-thou attitude some people have about them here. So, don't come here and tell me what I can or can't say about an issue. That's an "issue" in an of itself.
That's some grade A BS right there. You can't come to a public forum with an issue and tell people not to speak if they don't agree with you. I do care about these issues, but I'm absolutely against this holier-than-thou attitude some people have about them here. So, don't come here and tell me what I can or can't say about an issue. That's an "issue" in an of itself.
If that sort of mindset is evident in the game itself, I actually don't think I want to play it. That's the crux of the issue here (at least for me). I do hope that the game will handle these issues well but I will have to be convinced of that first.
If my morals took precedent in my life id have to life like a hermit. Im sitting here typing this on my phone, which directly supports the blood diamond industry in Africa.
The corporations that provide me with shit are all corrupt. We just choose to ignore it.
More power to people who have strong beliefs in this.
The corporations that provide me with shit are all corrupt. We just choose to ignore it.
More power to people who have strong beliefs in this.
Or maybe it's because a lot of these threads have an issue with people coming in and going "don't care lol" before fucking off forever. If that isn't you then maybe don't take it so personally.
They did. I think CP2077 will have decent minority representation. I'm just going off their history of it being non-existent in their games, save for some DLC in the third Witcher game.
But if people simply ignore context and intent with language you can go on long tirades about how most of the coarsest swear words in existence have been used in derogatory ways. No one is going to disagree that they have been and still are.
Often on Era, you see claims bitch and cunt cannot be said without it meaning you are sexist/misogynistic. It matters how you use said language and why you are using it. No one needs to like swearing, but it's not as simplistic as those who don't like swear words sometimes imply.
This is Cyberpunk, it's not Viva Pinata. Just in the same way as Deadwood isn't Dr Who.
Cocksucker actually seems to be quite rooted in American media - https://melmagazine.com/en-us/story/what-is-it-about-cocksucker-that-americans-love-so-much
No it doesn't. Threads like this are such a joke... taking one old tweet turning it into a massive frenzy. Literally using the games dialogue as some sort of indication it's homophobic. The game is set in a dark depressing future so no wonder it's using words like "cock sucker" as insults.
as someone part of the LGBT community it's really PATHETIC when this is the sort of shit people focus on. It's MEANINGLESS
I'm not that well read on CDPRs history about these issues, so I don't have an informed opinion yet. I'm also not a PC player, and actually haven't played the Witcher games, so my exposure to their work is minimal.
But I'd absolutely count twitter posts as "actions", and actively refusing to stand up for LGBTQ rights by even making a minimal effort statement honestly feels like an "action" too considering the political climate of 2019.
I'm excited about the game and disappointed in the past actions. For every dollar I spend on their game, I'm donating to an LGBTQ+ center in my city. It's my way of confronting the duality. Everyone is different though so I don't fault or blame others for the actions they are taking as a response. What is annoying is seeing people discount how others are feeling regarding everything. People will get legit booty bothered that someone finds the companies previous actions troublesome.
oh come on... this excuse is one of the oldest and laziest ever.
OP, as a consumer I can feel you on being conflicted about them, really we can only make that choice for ourselves and if you feel like it'll be better for you to choose not to support them I certainly get it based on what your post laid out
The only issue that I have with what you said is being against the use of slurs (cocksucker, in this case. But there are many others used in the last trailer they showed). I mean, the slur itself isn't exactly a new term and despite the progress we've made in society it's still used quite frequently so who's to say when it will stop being used?
Not to mention, in this case, it's an artistic choice that they've gone with to immerse characters in a dark world where you're hanging out with less-than kind company.
The only issue that I have with what you said is being against the use of slurs (cocksucker, in this case. But there are many others used in the last trailer they showed). I mean, the slur itself isn't exactly a new term and despite the progress we've made in society it's still used quite frequently so who's to say when it will stop being used?
Not to mention, in this case, it's an artistic choice that they've gone with to immerse characters in a dark world where you're hanging out with less-than kind company.
Have you ever heard of a woman being called a cocksucker? It is 100% a derogatory term for being gay. It is used specifically as an insult to call someone gay.
The way i look at it is, there are hundreds of people working on these games, and i'm sure among those there are going to be people who i disagree with on many issues. So as long as the game itself doesn't push social agenda that bother me I'll get it. Though i do know some people think differently and i totally understand if what has happened soured them on the game.
The tweets can be more than enough reason to boycot, that should be fair and should not be questioned. But there is no much to hint that they actually do not understand exactly what the Cyberpunk setting is supposed to be.
Strange failure to comprehend what I wrote. Asking people not to make dismissive posts saying they don't care about the topic doesn't stop people from disagreeing with each other or myself in the thread. Contribute, that's all my opening calls for.
a single tweet joke where apparently the person posting got fired. yes this is an attack on the lgbt community we need to go full boycott !!!
Maybe it is to you. I've said it many times over the years to friends and not one single time did I ever say it with that meaning behind it.
See this is the problem. People see something from their POV and that's exactly how they feel others do to. It's simply not the case. I can see how people would view it that way, sure, but don't make a statement saying that it's 100% factual because that's not accurate.
Should probably be a bit more detailed then if that's what you meant in the OP. Your statement could be taken both ways.
I am also having this issue. Keanu is cool. I like Keanu. I will continue to appreciate the ridiculousness of the moment his character was revealed. It's nothing in terms of making up for the shit that CDPR has done over the past year. I'm still not sure if I'm going to buy this game, which is a shame because it looks great.
Voicing disagreement is contribution. It's just not the contribution you want.
It wasn't a single tweet and the way they handled it suggested that this is the company culture, not a single bad apple gone rogue.
I don't think he's trying to downplay, that tweet was made by a PR, he got fired, not everyone at CDPR is transphobic.
Also this
There's also multiple shitty tweets from GOG. This wasn't a one time thing.
Looking beyond the scope of CDPR's media fuckups, I'm actually skeptical of what we've seen of the game itself so far. To me it looks very "cyber" but really not very "punk" at all. I always connected the genre with its strong stance on social issues and a general critique of capitalism.
SO you did not read a single thing in the OP or this thread for that matter
Yeah, like I said in my first post in this thread, I'm not actually sure the game looks "amazing", so far a lot of excitement comes from the fact that The Witcher 3 was fantastic, and this is by the same guys.
This right here. We should hold the individuals responsible instead of laying down a blanket of punishment for those who don't feel the same and are there to create art and support themselves or their families.
It was the reason many many people got banned during the Transphobic Tweet threads, they would come into the heated thread and say "I dont care, I'm buying the game anyway" and it was just ignorant and annoying. They even ignored the mod post telling them not to do that.
Coming into the thread to say that you are above this issue that seriously affects some people serves no purpose and just undermines everyone else.
If you come into a thread like this and say "I don't care, not my problem" you are an asshole. The OP knew this and wanted to stop it from happening again.
but it's still happening anyway because gamers are trash
Personally, the dialogue thing is whatever. A character could drop the other F word in the game and it wouldn't faze me. That means the character's shitty, not the necessarily the writer. Being a futuristic setting certainly shouldn't indicate bigoted language has gone away, especially if it's a "Dark Future." If there's mountains and mountains and mountains of bullshit still around today, there will be in 58 years.
The company's PR, alleged intense crunch, and iffy representation in past games are entirely different matters.
The company's PR, alleged intense crunch, and iffy representation in past games are entirely different matters.
I'm not sure why the Witcher games should be a reason to "doubt" CDPR. They had a logical explanation for the world they depicted being so racially homogeneous in that the book series virtually never mentions color. Yet they responded to community concerns and made the Ofieri a pretty substantial part of the first expansion for TW3.
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