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Steak

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,327
He summarized how he read Kyuujiu's post at the time. At the time he read it as a derail. And that would probably explain the hostility in the pm.

That is from a PM conversation I was having with Kyuuji after she told me that she was going to purposefully derail one of my threads.

I'm not seeing that anywhere?? It looks like he is talking about how he feels about it now.

He's didn't say "a conversation I was having with kyuuji where I thought she was going to purposefully derail one of my threads" he's says "she told me that she was going to purposefully derail one of my threads"
 

Charpunk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,639
Hobbes in their element


rb4iUTG.gif

I never understood how he got in that desk? Did he crawl under?
 

MrNelson

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,356
Well if that's the impression that you get from him then we will just have to agree to disagree.


Because I feel like he has made a concerted effort in the last few months to be as accommodating as possible to people on both sides of the issue. And I feel like he has been genuine in that effort. Or at least in the posts that I have seen and the interactions that I have had with him. I obviously haven't read every single one of his posts in the last 3 months.
I really don't get that considering how they reacted to the message they sent to Kyuuji being posted.
Hey Black Chamber,

Hope all is well with you and congratulations on another brilliant OT. Your passion is evident and works to create a great atmosphere.

As is probably not a secret there's contention between the game, the company, the trans community and the events ongoing in Poland. These concerns only grow as the crackdown in the country does, and as CDPR work to further entrench their views as "art". Being candid were it not for the issues spoken of, CP77 would be my most anticipated game and posts of mine prior to knowing what we do know share the same enthusiasm you do now.

I'm reaching out to say I'll be putting a post in the thread about the issue, with links to articles and how to support people in the community in Poland.

It's non-combative, allows for people buying the game to not feel bad at all but highlights why this is a concern for many. I've avoided the first page as I know you've put a lot of work into the thread, and will be posting before the video so the hype isn't diminished where it counts. Plus, being honest, it's not like much could combat Cyberpunk hype when it gets going.

I've avoided going into other threads on it but with the situation worsening I want to put an advocacy post there for people unaware of some of the broader context. Again, it isn't aimed at or mean to people who are looking to enjoy the hype, the intent isn't to make people feel bad.

Just wanted to give you some acknowledgement as it's an awkward situation where your enthusiasm clashes with something important to me, and I don't want to put you down.

All the best and hope the video is all you want it to be 🌃
Seems sensible enough, let's see how Black Chamber saw it.
That is from a PM conversation I was having with Kyuuji after she told me that she was going to purposefully derail one of my threads.

That was also before I was educated on everything that CDPR has done in the past.
Again, I seriously doubt that they were both unaware of all this shit, and that they have actually "learned" anything since then.
 
Sep 10, 2020
668
I'm a perfect world sure. But go look at every thread. This is the shit that happens. Every damned time. Discussion about the game itself gets buried under this insane hate for CDPR (which again I feel is justified). You get 5 pages of actual talking about the game and 20 with back and forth like this.

I'm not going to post on the mater further. It's only adding to the situation that I'm pissed off about to begin with. I just hope the OT is calmer. Reddit of all places should not be the calmest place to actually talk about things in the game and not the meta insanity surrounding it.
Reddit isn't talking about the transphobia.

If you don't want to bother with coming to terms with your own transphobia, sure, talk about it there.
 

timedesk

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,937
So what do you want him to do exactly? He became aware of an issue and put effort to better understand the issue. Sophia said this plan for the ot had been goin on for months. What more do you want?


He summarized how he read Kyuujiu's post at the time. At the time he read it as a derail. And that would probably explain the hostility in the pm.

Their screwup today shows they still don't get what the trans community needs from this. Peace and love for all is not a proper response to a harassed group looking for direct reassurance that their problems won't be ignored. The fact that they didn't immediately apologize was another mistake. What's done is done, and it looks like they have lost the trust of the trans posters here that they can be trusted to present this issue with the seriousness it deserves in the OT.
 

Death Penalty

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
3,309
There really needs to be some reckoning over whether this is just another PR website for major publishers or an actual discussion forum where people can talk about the nature of video games and all the baggage that come with them. I'm not for discussion of Cyberpunk being banned just because I think the stink of this game's marketing and representation should follow it everywhere it goes but what's the point if there are gonna be users who just act like hype men for it.
This is exactly what needs to be said. It's time to show that Era isn't all talk on these issues. If I had my way, hype threads for CP2077 would be banned. Something has to give, and it shouldn't be the comfort of the wonderful trans community we've managed to cultivate here in a landscape that is in almost all other places actively hostile to them. CP2077 is an electronic toy.
I have never felt more mute or unwelcome than the posts immediately following the reopening of this thread.

"THANKS OP, HYPE!!!" without a hint of introspection or empathy, made me sad to be a member. I would complain, but whats the point, no one to listen and to who? Fostering a community is far less important that a game, it seems for all ERA's hollow words of inclusiveness.
Hey, I didn't see this response earlier because the thread is moving pretty fast for me, but I just want to say I'm absolutely gutted for you and others who have been made to feel this way. Era has failed to live up to the promises it made of inclusivity from my point of view as well and I can't imagine how it feels to be one of the folks robbed of a safe space to discuss the hobby. I don't really know what to say beyond that, but I hope things get better and will do my best to be a part of that change. A luxury entertainment product is not worth alienating, dehumanizing and demeaning a group that already struggles so much.
 

Xaszatm

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,903
A formal request to change our protagonist name from V to L to better represent a chair, the most glorious goal of our Cyberpunk character.
 

Deleted member 17184

User-requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,240
So what do you want him to do exactly? He became aware of an issue and put effort to better understand the issue. Sophia said this plan for the ot had been goin on for months. What more do you want?
So why did he say that Kyuuji was "purposely derailing" his thread today? Did he really learn anything?

See, this is why we don't believe him when he says everybody is welcome. He first says he doesn't believe CDPR is transphobic (back in August), then he tells the management team (in private) that he'll have something for trans people in the game's OT, then he doesn't answer the trans community in public asking if that will really happen, then he says it was all for peace and love, and finally that Kyuuji was "purposely derailing" his thread with transphobic warnings. In a very passive-aggressive tone. And during all of that, he never acknowledged the trans discussion or even encouraged people to look at it.

So to answer your question about what we want him to do: be empathetic. Signal boost. Encourage the discussion even if he doesn't want to participate in it. Instead, all he worries is with people "derailing" the thread.
 

Lamptramp

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,397
Germany
I'm not seeing that anywhere?? It looks like he is talking about how he feels about it now.

He's didn't say "a conversation I was having with kyuuji where I thought she was going to purposefully derail one of my threads" he's says "she told me that she was going to purposefully derail one of my threads"

Yep, agreed, It's very clear, and was said today not months ago, following yesterdays fun and this evenings return to backslapping before anyone deigned to mention the issues.

Of course their character is beyond reproach, they try so hard to be welcoming... just not so much today or yesterday or when referring back to a polite message from another member.

Saying "peach and love" over and over doesn't ring true when it seems you don't practice it.
 
Nov 2, 2017
2,244
Again, I seriously doubt that they were both unaware of all this shit, and that they have actually "learned" anything since then.

Also worth noting, even if you wanted to try to grant the possibility that they've learned anything, Black Chamber's PM boiled down to "they're not transphobic, if I thought they were I wouldn't post about them". Black Chamber has clearly continued to post about CDPR, so we can draw one of two conclusions:
- Black Chamber still thinks CDPR isn't engaged in transphobia
- Black Chamber does now think CDPR is engaged in transphobia, but is now A-OK with the prospect of posting about CDPR despite the transphobia
 

thonerayman

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,801
Reddit isn't talking about the transphobia.

If you don't want to bother with coming to terms with your own transphobia, sure, talk about it there.

See this shit right here. I am 100% not transphobic. I have a great amount of respect for transpeople. I've had massive arguments with close friends for being rude to transpeople. Attacking me and saying my thoughts on this matter is becuase I am transphobic is the exact shit I'm talking about.
 

--R

Being sued right now, please help me find a lawyer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,807
"In 2077, what makes someone a criminal?

Sitting down."
 

Calvertutrp

Member
Dec 4, 2020
328
I'm not attacking the anger with which you posted that, I'm just pointing out that that phrase has a pretty nasty association and I'm not sure it applies to a thread on a video game site.
I mean the calling for seperate threads is basically what I posted in a nutshell, it'd basically be a place to push all the trans people too so they dont have to see any of the grievances they have
 
Sep 10, 2020
668
See this shit right here. I am 100% not transphobic. I have a great amount of respect for transpeople. I've had massive arguments with close friends for being rude to transpeople. Attacking me and saying my thoughts on this matter is becuase I am transphobic is the exact shit I'm talking about.
Then I don't understand why you are trying to avoid discussion about CDPR's transphobia?
 

L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
50,082
I haven't really been engaging in Cyberpunk threads - mainly because I didn't have a ton of interest in CD Projekt Red's stuff to begin with and they've proceeded to kill what there was with their history of behaviour. But I wanted to check it out after seeing some of the reaction to this thread bleed out of it. So admittedly this post is something of a driveby.

By looking at Kyuuji's PM and how it's been misrepresented by Black Chamber, it really eradicates the good faith that too-little-too-late gestures might have had. You can't say that you should have included Kyuuji's thread about the issues and planned to do it and then frame it as an attempt to disrupt things when she says she's going to bring it up. That doesn't add up - do you value the message and want to make sure it's visible or not?

Beyond that, we don't have to look at the date of the PM to know when things had come out. CD Projekt Red's history of transphobia has been taken place over some time; the first incident mentioned in Kyuuji's thread is from 2018, just a year younger than this forum. There really isn't much of a timeframe where you could be assembling hype posts about this game on ResetEra and not have CD Projekt Red's transphobic history not be in the background to it.
 

L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
50,082
I'm not trying to avoid it. I'm saying it Should 100% take place. But not in every single last thread
What purpose is there to keeping it out aside from to reduce the visibility of the discussion?

Who dictates that, despite being relevant to the topic, that it belongs in that thread and not this one?
 

Coyote Starrk

The Fallen
Oct 30, 2017
53,234
I'm not trying to avoid it. I'm saying it Should 100% take place. But not in every single last thread
Shutting down the discussion of the issues surrounding the game is no better than shutting down discussion about the game itself.


You have to be able to talk about all of the negative aspects surrounding the game and the company. That's a given. I think probably 99% of the people in here would be fine with that. It's all of the personal attacks and the hateful assumptions that are being made towards the people who are excited for the game that is upsetting everyone I think. It's just not necessary.
 

Deleted member 18944

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
6,944
I'm not trying to avoid it. I'm saying it Should 100% take place. But not in every single last thread

Issues that the trans community has with CyberPunk 2077 should occur in every single thread about CyberPunk 2077 that will be hosted on this site, full stop.

We know there are plenty of people who don't care. And guess what, those people who ACTUALLY don't care won't respond to anyone about it and will just engage with only game discussion.
 

Lamptramp

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,397
Germany
Hey, I didn't see this response earlier because the thread is moving pretty fast for me, but I just want to say I'm absolutely gutted for you and others who have been made to feel this way. Era has failed to live up to the promises it made of inclusivity from my point of view as well and I can't imagine how it feels to be one of the folks robbed of a safe space to discuss the hobby. I don't really know what to say beyond that, but I hope things get better and will do my best to be a part of that change. A luxury entertainment product is not worth alienating, dehumanizing and demeaning a group that already struggles so much.

It seems you're in a minority, but thanks

 

RoninZ

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,752
Left for a while and returned. Wasn't the OT discussion done and over with hours ago? Didn't people clarify that Trans issues are being included in the thread? So much headshaking at all this.
 

--R

Being sued right now, please help me find a lawyer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,807
I'm not trying to avoid it. I'm saying it Should 100% take place. But not in every single last thread

Discussion about the issues trans people have about this game's imagery, marketing and its developers should not be shut down. They should be listened to and respected by everyone, period.
 
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