Laurence was never asked to return, he was already in the US before lockdowns, Hugo on the other hand seemed to have scheduling issues.
Deadline: WB was prepared to move on to Matrix 4 without the Wachowskis. WB still wants a fifth movie and for Lana to return.
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You are making too much sense now. Please stop making too much sense.
(great parallels too, because people have been trying to downplay Sophia Copolla's films since eternity, and they are all great, SPECIALLY when you understand where she is coming from).
i feel like that the wachowskis never knew what to do with the Matrix and where to take it after the first (excellent) movie. each film has just got worse and worse
that's why it would be interesting to have another director do something with it
that's why it would be interesting to have another director do something with it
Friendly reminder that all those directors could have directed a better action movie already. It has been 20 years, after all. Why haven't them?
The thing that makes the series interesting is that it is directly formed from the worldview of the people that made it, and I don't see how having someone else direct it would be at all interesting. I support something like a sequel to the Animatrix, but we don't NEED more Matrix sequels without the creator's direct input because it would be absolutely pointless. It would be far more interesting to see directors inspired by The Matrix make their own damn worlds and stories, just like the Wachowskis did back in 99.
The MMO's story is still very much canon in this one, and if you know what happens to Morpheus in that game, you'll know that it wouldn't have made sense for him to come back at all. And you find out pretty quickly about why the new Morpheus is the way he is.
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Amen! Blade Runner 2049 was so f-ing amazing!All great directors but none that I would say fit with anything Matrix like.
There is only one dude I would give the franchise to.
Denis Villeneuve
I think what WB will ultimately wind up doing is bringing in a new director from their roster, while keeping one (or both) of the Wachowskis as producers and screenwriters.
I can't realistically see a timeline, post Revolutions and Resurrections, where WB goes forward with another movie, and keeps the Wachowskis as producers, writers, and directors, WITH the crazy high budgets that they have been given in the past.
I can't realistically see a timeline, post Revolutions and Resurrections, where WB goes forward with another movie, and keeps the Wachowskis as producers, writers, and directors, WITH the crazy high budgets that they have been given in the past.
Wouldn't you say they've done all they can do with it at this point, as bad as the sequels were is there any interesting ground left? It's like the Terminator franchise. I don't think there is much there but imitating the coolness of the action. Is it that interesting to go into the AI structure or Zion like places again, machine value vs wars, I don't see it but another director doing a pretty cool action film, possible.
Resurrections very much felt like Lana signing off, and... yeah. I don't see her coming back. What'd be really interesting would be if they could court Lilly, and if we could get her solo take on the franchise in 2021.
I don't think either will happen, and we'll eventually get a very safe spin-off/reboot set in the 'heart' of the franchise, ie some time before Revolutions. Just hope they get a director with a vision
I don't think either will happen, and we'll eventually get a very safe spin-off/reboot set in the 'heart' of the franchise, ie some time before Revolutions. Just hope they get a director with a vision
The suggestions in this thread are embarrassing.
How do we make the Matrix better? By bring in a bunch of cis white men.
Maybe, just maybe, the Matrix was not made for you. That's fine -- you can like things where you aren't the target demographic. But to argue that the one big-budget queer/trans franchise anywhere in Western entertainment needs to be fixed by a bunch of straight white dudes...just embaressing
How do we make the Matrix better? By bring in a bunch of cis white men.
Maybe, just maybe, the Matrix was not made for you. That's fine -- you can like things where you aren't the target demographic. But to argue that the one big-budget queer/trans franchise anywhere in Western entertainment needs to be fixed by a bunch of straight white dudes...just embaressing
/thread
Like we got so many shit-ass threads about Wander having a different face in the Shadow of the Colossus remake and so many people just don't care about trans themes in The Matrix.
But-- but if they bring in James Wan, he could have Trinity throw a chair at someone!
And that really is what The Matrix is all about. Creating short clips for internet memes!
...Trans allegory? Pssh! Whatever! 🙃
Repeat with me:
"The Matrix saga wouldn't exist without trans people. The Matrix, its concept and its story have a big, on-your-face trans allegory that existed and has always been there since the movie was released, whether I like it or not."
The trans allegory didn't appear in some internet back alley. The allegory is there, in every facet that concerns the movie, from the protagonist himself to the concept of the Matrix itself.
Would you be able to say on a spoiler what happened to Morpheus in the MMO? Never played it
This
I don't think the Wachowski's can really make that great of a film, but they do need to be involved at some significant level. Like a lot of great creators, sometimes they are not best left to do everything they want to do and need other smart people in the room to help iterate and make ideas better.
This film in particular could use that, especially when it comes to the actions most glaringly, but also with some of the pacing and exposition. And honestly, some better brainstorming for Smith would have been nice to have too as to how to better integrate him into the plot, among other things.
As far as the transness of the franchise... clearly elements of the Wachowski's worldview and character made it deep into the films. Whether or not they were aware of what elements of themselves that reflect their transness is irrelevant. I would agree that the films without external knowledge wouldn't be viewed as films about the trans experience, but that doesn't devalue the meaning they have or the themes that run through them.
I'd be down for more Matrix movies, but the Wachowski's have to be involved or it's not really the Matrix
He's assassinated by a Program inside the Matrix for actions he took to try to recover Neo's body from the Machines. Niobe in Resurrections doesn't get into all the gory details about all that happened, but what she did reveal lines up pretty cleanly with how it all went down, and they weren't going to be able recover him the same way the Machines did Neo and Trinity as their deaths were in the Real World. He's long dead by the time Resurrections starts.
The film touches on this, but the difference in the film the Matrix is an award winning and beloved series. In real life the attitude is much more mixed, and downright negative if not for the first film. The Matrix while their movie and vision, isn't above criticism and it's not wild to think that with more refining and feedback they could have focused in more and gotten their messages across without being confusing or overwhelming.
Like at what point is confusing a feature and not a bug? It's like with Joker where there was a LOT you could discuss and ideas in the film but the average person wouldn't be able to understand or describe those themes.
You literally have a trans woman saying that because of the first film she had the brave to come out in this thread.
I literally wrote fanfiction about me changing my body based on me trying to be like Trinity. Like just cuz we didn't have the verbiage to explain how we connected to the movie in that way, doesn't mean we didn't connect to that movie in that particular way.
A lot of the attitude towards the sequels changed over time. I believe same will happen here.
Culture is playing catch up with those movies and their themes, and that's not inherently bad.
But that's the reason why I don't want their creators replaced.
It would never happen, but I'd love to see what a "competing" sequel from Lilly would look like. We could have Lana's M4, and Lilly's M4. But considering all the shit takes in this thread, it probably was for the best for Lilly to just say hell no and be done with it.
Didn't Lilly decline to come back for this one because she just doesn't want to work on major Hollywood films right now? I don't remember hearing anything about a difference of opinion between them on the way they wanted the story to go.
Because there is none. Lilly gave her blessing to Lana to pursue this, and that is very well documented.
That's exactly what I thought, cool. I knew she's been busy with Work in Progress lately so I can't imagine she really wanted to pivot away from that.
To me, it sounds as if she doesn't want to return to The Matrix, specifically.
Lilly Wachowski explains why she didn't return for The Matrix Resurrections
The Matrix franchise creator and co-director Lilly Wachowski has explained why she didn't return for The Matrix Resurrections.
www.flickeringmyth.com
Lilly continued: "I didn't want to have gone through my transition and gone through this massive upheaval in my life, the sense of loss from my mom and dad, to want to go back to something that I've done before and sort of walk over old paths that I had walked in… like I was going to go back and live in these old shoes, in a way, and I didn't want to do that."
Obviously, I respect her decision, but just the idea of competing sequels using the same cast, but different ideas from both Wachowskis could've been incredible and unlike anything you usually see from Hollywood.
"This is my version, and this is my version."
I think it would've been a cute novelty for a couple of minutes, but I honestly don't think I would have the mental fortitude to spend the next 20 years hearing nerd factions arguing over which interpretation of the Matrix sequels is better after the past few years of TLJ/TFA nerd-warring.
I'm happy she's working on a far more personal project right now.
I was mostly referring to the person who said the films aren't really about the trans experience because the Wachowskis's didn't plan any symbolism in them at the time that they were aware of. Clearly the films do connect to people like yourself, because who they are and what they value and think translates to the film. Forgive me if I get the verbiage wrong with it, but the two were always trans and the film speaks to that.
I don't mean to discredit what the films mean to you or others like yourself, clearly there is a message there that resonates. But as far as I can remember, the awareness of the transness of the films is something people have become aware of an a topic of discussion only since the Wachowski's came out.
My comments of it being irrelevant was in reference to people trying to discredit the film's transness, not trying to say that it doesn't matter that they do have a resonate message.
My sincere apologies if it came off that way.
It's all good, but I just want to say a lot of people who are trans literally just don't know they are trans until one day they know they are.
Of course, the Wachowskis coming out would cause fans who connected with it originally to re-evaluate why they connected it so.
Like it's not like the Wachowskis coming revealed some hidden puzzle piece to complete the picture, it's like someone finally realized how to shift their eye enough to see the giraffer that's been on the page the whole time.
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