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snausages

Member
Feb 12, 2018
10,380
The traversal is only brainless because you are making it brainless, you are ignoring the core creative challenges of building solutions to make traversal more efficient.
That is literally the loop here, particularly from chapter 3 onwards. Do thing in mundane, slow way. Learn terrain. Then maybe think about a solution that is more efficient and matches the challenge of the terrain.

What's really impressive is how they pack all this systematic detail into a walking simulator :p
 

nib95

Contains No Misinformation on Philly Cheesesteaks
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,498
But with what systems can I engage with? Stamina is illusory, it only prevents you from sprinting if depleted. Weight is meaningless, because even supassing by one Kg my weight limit (the most I've tried, as I was a fool and thought weight meant something), I still can do everything I can do without it, just with a bit more tumbling and slower speed while depleting more stamina (which again, it's meaningless). Using tools is a simple matter of preference as you can bypass anything by pressing forward on foot and gripping your cargo.

If a turn based battle system allows me to beat any enemy without risk of getting killed by simply pressing attack, I won't care how many spells, or techniques, or builds there are in the game, I will just use attack. It's not on me on making the mechanics mean anything, it's on the designers. If they put a stamina metter in a game, then I want to be beholden to that stamina meter, and not just be a small detriment on me on getter a better score.

If getting a better time is engagement enough for most people from a gameplay perspective, that's fine, but I just don't see the appeal to a game focused entirely on traversal and then making said traversal brainless.

It's not just time engagement (though that is a primary reward), but also how experimental you can be with traversal or locations, and also how much you can carry along with it, not to mention the ranking rewards etc too.

For example, if you don't want to engage with BT's, you can scale treacherous mountains and rocky cliffs that go around or over them etc instead, but if you do, you'll constantly be losing stamina or balance due to harsher gradients, rocky terrain etc being far more detrimental to these systems. So that factors in to the whole risk reward thing too.

Ultimately, this is a game where you can't even die, the premise, goals, engagement incentives and rewards are slightly different to the vast majority of other games. Not every game has to be super challenging all the time, or have death being dangled at you for every mistake. Though saying that, in a sense void outs are almost worse than a typical game over screen anyway.
 
Last edited:

MegaSackman

Member
Oct 27, 2017
17,764
Argentina
Then if being slowed down is pretty much the only drawback, it should be incredibly easy to understand how for some of us that's nowhere near punishing enough for it to be engaging, right?

Like, you can go overencumbered with cargo, without stamina, and still climb, still not fall, still cross rivers and BT sections due to the game giving you momentaneous stamina so that you can bypass those elements, still barely any risk of damaging your cargo. Theres' zero challenge, zero risk involved

The game is toothless, and for a game completely focused on traversal, the fact that it's completely dependant on me caring on being a few minutes faster isn't going to make the experience better. There's plenty of options in terms of mechanics, but no mechanical depth whatsoever.

This is not my experience at all, I can't L2 + R2 my way out of things, most of the roads I traverse depletes my stamina faster and slows me down. Usually I'm not super equipped on weapons so I try to avoid camps and that's not that easy to do.
I don't fight BTs either so that's another challenge to me because I don't wanna get caught.
I'm very good with my cargo but because I care, I've arrived to places with my tools almost ruined and barely any stamina left.

It's not Sekiro but I feel challenged, it's probably because the game clicks for me.
 
May 24, 2019
116
I just immaturely drove straight through the camp at full speed on the trike. I hit a few rocks but the motivation of the bullets flying had me dodging/diving like a pro. Would recommend that approach if you want some adrenaline and have a few blood bags ready.
are you guys talking about the chiral relay mission? i didn't run into any MULEs during this part. i think maybe i managed to route around them…?
Remember that on the highway, your trike won't need battery, since it runs off the power grid.
this font colour is making me wig out.
BB…
 

Evilmaus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
637
I don't think a game has grabbed me the way this one has in a very long time. I'm constantly thinking about it, itching to get back to it, and reading/watching things about it (and trying desperately to avoid spoilers) when I can't be playing.

Polarizing as the game might be for some, this thing is fucking captivating for me.
 

ElOdyssey

Member
Oct 30, 2017
713
Had a lot of fun last night raiding MULE camps. I love fucking them up and taking all of their shit. LOL

Also, some minor Chapter 3 spoilers:
When you're doing the hour glass mission for the Junk Dealer. Isn't it kind of weird the girl looks super young and he and she are in love with each other? She even says her mom wasn't happy about their relationship.
 

MegaSackman

Member
Oct 27, 2017
17,764
Argentina
Had a lot of fun last night raiding MULE camps. I love fucking them up and taking all of their shit. LOL

Also, some minor Chapter 3 spoilers:
When you're doing the hour glass mission for the Junk Dealer. Isn't it kind of weird the girl looks super young and he and she are in love with each other? She even says her mom wasn't happy about their relationship.

I thought they looked about the same age honestly, the guy looks older through holos but once he's out he looks young as well.
There's more to that story on emails tho.
 

Sacul64

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,781
Rebuilding the highway is a great cause. Just wish I knew how many resources I needed before I headed out. 🤔 Remember that on the highway, your trike won't need battery, since it runs off the power grid. That's why I use the normal trike at the moment. While the normal legal definition of motorcycle is a two-wheeled vehicle, in the USA a motorcycle may also be three-wheeled. This classification does not depend on whether the operator is fully enclosed by a "cage" or exposed to the elements. Many three-wheelers which exist in the form of motorcycle-based machines are often called trikes and often have the front single wheel and mechanics similar to that of a motorcycle and the rear axle similar to that of a car. Often such vehicles are owner-constructed using a portion of a rear-engine, rear-drive Volkswagen Beetle in combination with a motorcycle front end. Other trikes include ATVs that are specially constructed for off-road use. Early automotive pioneer Karl Benz developed a number of three-wheeled models. One of these, the Benz Patent Motorwagen, is regarded as the first purpose-built automobile. It was made in 1885. In 1896, John Henry Knight showed a tri-car at The Great Exhibition. In 1897, Edward Butler (inventor) made the Butler Petrol Cycle, another three-wheeled car. Keep up the good work!
👍👍👍👍👍👍👍 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍

(edit thanks to Flipyap)


This is beautiful! And just so you know You can actually see how much is needed if you have already seen the Paver, Shows up as an icon on your map that tells you how much is needed. That way you can stock up a head of time and just let it be you and the road!
👍👍👍👍👍👍👍 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
57,060
Had a lot of fun last night raiding MULE camps. I love fucking them up and taking all of their shit. LOL

Also, some minor Chapter 3 spoilers:
When you're doing the hour glass mission for the Junk Dealer. Isn't it kind of weird the girl looks super young and he and she are in love with each other? She even says her mom wasn't happy about their relationship.
No, because if you look at the Junk Dealer himself when he comes out of the bunker, he looks just as young as she does.
 
Oct 25, 2017
13,246
Ahh. I want to just make a beeline through the story deliveries. But i can't help myself. 😭

Don't worry. I'm in the same boat. Approaching the 35 hour mark and all I'm doing is maxing out the locations.

There is something extremely rewarding about realizing that you've made traversal in explored locations efficient through pathways and construction.
 

Dan Thunder

Member
Nov 2, 2017
14,091
Had a lot of fun last night raiding MULE camps. I love fucking them up and taking all of their shit. LOL

Also, some minor Chapter 3 spoilers:
When you're doing the hour glass mission for the Junk Dealer. Isn't it kind of weird the girl looks super young and he and she are in love with each other? She even says her mom wasn't happy about their relationship.

They didn't look particularly different in age to me. All that really stood out was that she either couldn't act or English is very much a second or third language!
 

ElOdyssey

Member
Oct 30, 2017
713
I thought they looked about the same age honestly, the guy looks older through holos but once he's out he looks young as well.
There's more to that story on emails tho.
No, because if you look at the Junk Dealer himself when he comes out of the bunker, he looks just as young as she does.
Thank you. I will keep playing to see this part. Yes, the hologram makes you think he is much older.
 

Otakukidd

The cutest v-tuber
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,615
Why oh why have I been avoiding MULE camps? These guys have everything.
I currently think they are the best part of the game so far. Currently on chapter 3, sneaking into the camp with no packages, taking everone out, stealing all their shit, packing it all in their truck and booking it out of their. It's just so fun. Best way so far to get materials
 

Open Wound

Member
Nov 7, 2017
584
It's not just time engagement (though that is a primary reward), but also how experimental you can be with traversal or locations, and also how much you can carry along with it, not to mention the ranking rewards etc too.

For example, if you don't want to engage with BT's, you can scale treacherous mountains and rocky cliffs that go around or over them etc instead, but if you do, you'll constantly be losing stamina or balance due to harsher gradients, rocky terrain etc being far more detrimental to these systems. So that factors in to the whole risk reward thing too.

Ultimately, this is a game where you can't even die, the premise, goals, engagement incentives and rewards are slightly different to the vast majority of other games. Not every game has to be super challenging or have death being dangled at you for every mistake. Though saying that, in a sense void outs are almost worse than a typical game over screen anyway.

This is a fantastic example because tha'ts exactly something that I've tried right now. I tried to make a video about it, even created a twitter (I don't have one) in order to share it here to explain exactly my issue with the game, but my lack of experience with PS4 share feature made me just record only my last 9 seconds. I might share a video showing my complaints later.

Anyway, I did exactly that, and the only detriment is losing stamina, which as I said, once depleted, you're prevented from only sprinting. Not only that but if the BTs catch you without stamina it's repleted through adrenaline so that you can escape from them. And losing balance is a non issue if there isn't a risk of falling and damaging cargo, which should be a big deal and it's trivial to keep it safe.

I'm not asking to die, I'm just asking that when climbing I should consider between losing a ton of stamina that I can't get back without resting (and stamina depletion to have meaningful consequences), and using a tool. I should consider a good balance between cargo and tools for traversal because it should be the difference between being able to go through certain terrain and having to do a long detour.

Basically I don't think being a few minutes slower is enough punishmen, and it is certainly not enough to give depth to its mechanics.
 

Mik2121

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,946
Japan
Have played about 14 hours now, somewhere halfway through Chapter 3, a bit after reaching the Weather tower thing. I'm now doing a couple runs around the MULE camp nearby to collect materials and complete the roads.
At first I was wondering if I'd get bored about the loop after 10+ hours, but so far, not at all. The pace at which they give you updates and new things to do feels very good, too. The game is still not for everyone, I think. You have to enjoy slower paced games. But I'm more and more surprised that the game also got bad reviews from some places. Even if it's not for you, it's not like it's badly built or anything like that. But I guess you won't stand out if you are not loud enough.
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
57,060
I currently think they are the best part of the game so far. Currently on chapter 3, sneaking into the camp with no packages, taking everone out, stealing all their shit, packing it all in their truck and booking it out of their. It's just so fun. Best way so far to get materials
Best way to get materials is to check shared stashes in postboxes, prepper stations, distros, and cities... because often some kind soul has dumped a tonne in there for others. :p

And you need to heck the collapsed material tabs specifically, sometimes it looks empty at a glance but it isn't. Also levelling up shelters and then claiming materials from them nets you tonnes.

But yeh, mule camps are also a great source.
 

Ananasas

Member
Jul 11, 2018
1,747
This is beautiful! And just so you know You can actually see how much is needed if you have already seen the Paver, Shows up as an icon on your map that tells you how much is needed. That way you can stock up a head of time and just let it be you and the road!
👍👍👍👍👍👍👍 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
That's what I did, great tip 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
 
Oct 25, 2017
13,246
This is a fantastic example because tha'ts exactly something that I've tried right now. I tried to make a video about it, even created a twitter (I don't have one) in order to share it here to explain exactly my issue with the game, but my lack of experience with PS4 share feature made me just record only my last 9 seconds. I might share a video showing my complaints later.

Anyway, I did exactly that, and the only detriment is losing stamina, which as I said, once depleted, you're prevented from only sprinting. Not only that but if the BTs catch you without stamina it's repleted through adrenaline so that you can escape from them. And losing balance is a non issue if there isn't a risk of falling and damaging cargo, which should be a big deal and it's trivial to keep it safe.

I'm not asking to die, I'm just asking that when climbing I should consider between losing a ton of stamina that I can't get back without resting (and stamina depletion to have meaningful consequences), and using a tool. I should consider a good balance between cargo and tools for traversal because it should be the difference between being able to go through certain terrain and having to do a long detour.

Basically I don't think being a few minutes slower is enough punishmen, and it is certainly not enough to give depth to its mechanics.

It's not a few minutes slower is the thing. Especially when you do multiple deliveries at a time. Try maxing out your cargo load and doing a delivery with L2/R2 versus a proper path.

The difference in timing is massive. Even more so if you decide to do harder standard deliveries on top.
 

Flipyap

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,489
Brilliant! I even skimmed through 95% like I usually do!
I've been doing my darnedest to read all of them for the first 30 hours of my playthrough and the only thing I got out of it is amazement at how little care was put into differentiating these "characters".
There's so much fun stuff that could be done with how different people use emojis, instead it's all written in the same voice with the same emoji spamming habits (I think the Elder is the only one who shows some restraint).
 

Septimius

Member
Oct 25, 2017
823
This is beautiful! And just so you know You can actually see how much is needed if you have already seen the Paver, Shows up as an icon on your map that tells you how much is needed. That way you can stock up a head of time and just let it be you and the road!
👍👍👍👍👍👍👍 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍

Hey, Sacul64! Still out there helping reconnect the world? 😄Thank you so much for the tip you sent me. At the moment, I'm just in my private room, stocking up on some oxitocin (😍). I have been out there trying to do my part to restock the auto pavers. Last time I did that, I actually just put a random amount of resources on my truck – a truck I had stolen from a nearby MULE outpost! – and drove down to the auto paver. To my surprise, when I loaded up all the resources on my back and went to restock it, the resources I had brought was EXACTLY the amount needed for that paver!Talk about lucky! 😅On the way back, I ended up running into timefall, so I just took the truck all the way back to base and planned my next trip.

I'll definitely keep your tip in mind for next time, though. Doubt I'll be that lucky for the next one! Thanks for sharing your tips, and keep being a legendary deliverer! Hope to see you out there! 🤩
👍👍👍👍👍👍👍 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
 

nib95

Contains No Misinformation on Philly Cheesesteaks
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,498
This is a fantastic example because tha'ts exactly something that I've tried right now. I tried to make a video about it, even created a twitter (I don't have one) in order to share it here to explain exactly my issue with the game, but my lack of experience with PS4 share feature made me just record only my last 9 seconds. I might share a video showing my complaints later.

Anyway, I did exactly that, and the only detriment is losing stamina, which as I said, once depleted, you're prevented from only sprinting. Not only that but if the BTs catch you without stamina it's repleted through adrenaline so that you can escape from them. And losing balance is a non issue if there isn't a risk of falling and damaging cargo, which should be a big deal and it's trivial to keep it safe.

I'm not asking to die, I'm just asking that when climbing I should consider between losing a ton of stamina that I can't get back without resting (and stamina depletion to have meaningful consequences), and using a tool. I should consider a good balance between cargo and tools for traversal because it should be the difference between being able to go through certain terrain and having to do a long detour.

Basically I don't think being a few minutes slower is enough punishmen, and it is certainly not enough to give depth to its mechanics.

I've lost balance or fallen off mountains etc several times. It really depends on how bold or brave you want to be, eg how treacherous the diversion is that you're taking, be it a dangerous cliff edge, rocky mountain, huge ravine etc. Also, if you are going up or along steep embankments, or anything with a really steep gradient, your stamina will deplete within seconds, forcing you to wait every few seconds till you get it back, so I'm not even sure how you've only had your stamina run out once, unless you're constantly taking the simpler routes and paths, and also avoiding carrying heavier loads too.

For the record I'm playing on Hard. I don't know if that makes any difference.
 

Omnistalgic

self-requested temp ban
Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,973
NJ
I don't think a game has grabbed me the way this one has in a very long time. I'm constantly thinking about it, itching to get back to it, and reading/watching things about it (and trying desperately to avoid spoilers) when I can't be playing.

Polarizing as the game might be for some, this thing is fucking captivating for me.
It truly is love/hate. I rarely see in between. I just hope it sold well enough for Kojima to make part 2. I would love to see a sequel, dunno the story implications yet where you can choose to be a courier or a fighter and have a dynamic world that supports both play styles.
 

Shy

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
18,520
Don't worry. I'm in the same boat. Approaching the 35 hour mark and all I'm doing is maxing out the locations.

There is something extremely rewarding about realizing that you've made traversal in explored locations efficient through pathways and construction.
True. I'm just worried i'll never finish the game.
 

MechaMarmaset

Member
Nov 20, 2017
3,584
What? Really???

Muahahahaahahahahahahahaah.

I really don't understand why kojima insert such a wacky and strange sidequest in this game...

It's weird because they do mocap and everything on it and then all the rest of the side quests are just lazy holograms. Part of me thinks this was the first one they designed and then were like, "fuck this is going to be expensive. We're not doing any more of these."
 

Eien1no1Yami

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,298
This is a fantastic example because tha'ts exactly something that I've tried right now. I tried to make a video about it, even created a twitter (I don't have one) in order to share it here to explain exactly my issue with the game, but my lack of experience with PS4 share feature made me just record only my last 9 seconds. I might share a video showing my complaints later.

Anyway, I did exactly that, and the only detriment is losing stamina, which as I said, once depleted, you're prevented from only sprinting. Not only that but if the BTs catch you without stamina it's repleted through adrenaline so that you can escape from them. And losing balance is a non issue if there isn't a risk of falling and damaging cargo, which should be a big deal and it's trivial to keep it safe.

I'm not asking to die, I'm just asking that when climbing I should consider between losing a ton of stamina that I can't get back without resting (and stamina depletion to have meaningful consequences), and using a tool. I should consider a good balance between cargo and tools for traversal because it should be the difference between being able to go through certain terrain and having to do a long detour.

Basically I don't think being a few minutes slower is enough punishmen, and it is certainly not enough to give depth to its mechanics.

I don't know which chapter you are right now but later on stamina depletes very fast if you just walk and aren't prepared for the journey.There were some missions where
I barely made it to the destination.Keep in mind that I'm taking about your max stamina depletion which can only be replenished by using your private room, not the one where you can replenish by just drinking Monster or resting.
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
57,060
This is a fantastic example because tha'ts exactly something that I've tried right now. I tried to make a video about it, even created a twitter (I don't have one) in order to share it here to explain exactly my issue with the game, but my lack of experience with PS4 share feature made me just record only my last 9 seconds. I might share a video showing my complaints later.

Anyway, I did exactly that, and the only detriment is losing stamina, which as I said, once depleted, you're prevented from only sprinting. Not only that but if the BTs catch you without stamina it's repleted through adrenaline so that you can escape from them. And losing balance is a non issue if there isn't a risk of falling and damaging cargo, which should be a big deal and it's trivial to keep it safe.

I'm not asking to die, I'm just asking that when climbing I should consider between losing a ton of stamina that I can't get back without resting (and stamina depletion to have meaningful consequences), and using a tool. I should consider a good balance between cargo and tools for traversal because it should be the difference between being able to go through certain terrain and having to do a long detour.

Basically I don't think being a few minutes slower is enough punishmen, and it is certainly not enough to give depth to its mechanics.
If you go on a long trek, you lose your max stamina. And while a quick burst is gained from initial BT encounters, you get a HEAVY crash very shortly after.

And, again, the entire point here is creative problem solving to make the most efficient and speedy route, NOT teeth bearing difficulty.

I could get through most games without even touching advanced mechanics. DMCV could be beaten with just the basic moves. Does that make it pointless using advance moves just because you don't need to?

In Destiny 2, I could use one single loadout for everything. Does it mean I should just because I can? That would make the game very dull...

Same here... just because you CAN hold L2R2 and climb slowly, doesn't mean you SHOULD. The depth of the mechanics is there for you to utilize to make the gameplay both more interesting AND to solve the problem of creating the most efficient routes. Ignoring this is like spamming one attack through an action game just because you can and saying "this is boring".
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
57,060
So, all builds will eventually break right? If you have something with a high like count it will eventually disappear and you'll have to build a new one?

That doesn't mean you lose those likes, right? I've not tried to dismantle anything and note my like count yet.

Just curious, not really concerned.
 
Oct 25, 2017
13,246
I don't know which chapter you are right now but later on stamina depletes very fast if you just walk and aren't prepared for the journey.There were some missions where
I barely made it to the destination.Keep in mind that I'm taking about your max stamina depletion which can only be replenished by using your private room, not the one where you can replenish by just drinking Monster or resting.

Also, using something like double floaters with cargo on it depletes your stamina very quickly.
 

Rowsdower

Prophet of Truth - The Wise Ones
Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
16,593
Canada
Got the Collector hooked up. Lost cargo was the issue. I gotta get going with the main story, but I love doing these damn standard orders.

Gonna start Chapter 5 tonight. Also, the highway is complete from Lake Knot to South Knot on my server. Now to start towards Mountain Knot.
 
Oct 25, 2017
13,246
So, all builds will eventually break right? If you have something with a high like count it will eventually disappear and you'll have to build a new one?

That doesn't mean you lose those likes, right? I've not tried to dismantle anything and note my like count yet.

Just curious, not really concerned.

You can boost Timefall resistance in structures via upgrades and you can also repair structures via materials.

Left unmaintained, the structure will degrade. You get messages telling you when objects you've placed start degrading. I'm getting messages now about degradation for anchors in the starting area.
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
57,060
You can boost Timefall resistance in structures via upgrades and you can also repair structures via materials.

Left unmaintained, the structure will degrade. You get messages telling you when objects you've placed start degrading. I'm getting messages now about degradation for anchors in the starting area.

Yeh, I know the level 3 timefall resistance, but I couldn't recall if you could directly repair builds. Been getting messages that my builds are degrading, so I think I'll check when they're around 50% via the map and go repair them.

I'm assuming ladders and ropes will just disappear though, right?
 

Rowsdower

Prophet of Truth - The Wise Ones
Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
16,593
Canada
So, all builds will eventually break right? If you have something with a high like count it will eventually disappear and you'll have to build a new one?

That doesn't mean you lose those likes, right? I've not tried to dismantle anything and note my like count yet.

Just curious, not really concerned.

Yea, everything will degrade due to Timefall; especially in areas where it's almost constant. It seems slow though; I'm only getting messages about structures degraded all the way back in the first area, near Capital Knot, and I've been playing since midnight launch.

You can repair them with more mats though. It's why there's postboxes along the road pavers in my server, so the roads and surrounding structures can always be maintained.
 

MechaMarmaset

Member
Nov 20, 2017
3,584
I always feel like the game wants you to take a particular path for certain story elements, but there's always an easier way around backtracking. For instance:

When we have to travel all the way from Edge Knot to Lake Knot, I see tons of people online talking about having to trek back through the mountains how long it was. I just jumped on a bike and sped around the perimeter of the south part of the map until I made it to the timefall farm. The shore line is relatively rockless and you can speed through every BT along the way without touching any of them.

Then I used the zip line network I already built for the timefall farm and zipped my way back all the way to the Distro center an then took the road all the way from there to Lake Knot. Took like 10 minutes.

One thing I loved about this chapter though was how it was raining everywhere. Traveling on the roads in that dense fog and seeing all the lights from the bridges and other constructions off in the distance was really cool looking. It was so atmospheric.
 
Oct 25, 2017
13,246
Yeh, I know the level 3 timefall resistance, but I couldn't recall if you could directly repair builds. Been getting messages that my builds are degrading, so I think I'll check when they're around 50% via the map and go repair them.

I'm assuming ladders and ropes will just disappear though, right?

I'd assume so. I haven't checked, just noticed that I have the repair option on some of my buildings and some of the online buildings I see.
 

TheModestGun

Banned
Dec 5, 2017
3,781
Wow the junk dealer sidequest was top tier kojima trash holy shit lol.

The actress who does the voice of the girl can't be a professional right? Or she try to simulate a foreign accent? I was jist laughing my ass off every time she talks...
im pretty sure she is literally a big Japanese actress. That's her best English...
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
57,060
And is there any way to dismantle vehicles?

I know if you make more than 4, your oldest gets dismantled... but I want to make another and not lose my oldest, and I don't see a way to dismantle in the garage or any of the menus...

I'd assume so. I haven't checked, just noticed that I have the repair option on some of my buildings and some of the online buildings I see.

Thanks.