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Carn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,925
The Netherlands
Nah, the problem right now in the video game industry is that while revenues are at a record high, profit is lagging, which is why we are seeing mass layoffs all over. With this layoff announcement, they also announced they were slipping two projects - that always leads to layoffs no matter who you are and how much funding you have. Talent is always what is cut when budgets get slashed, because humans are a disposable resource to just about every company on the planet, unfortunately.

Yep. You can cut costs on other factors (where possible) like rent / licenses / infra / carpool / whatever, but sooner or later you end up laying off employees. And the US has really shitty contract/labour laws so its pretty easy. My company will probably need to downsize next year because profit isnt keeping up with rising costs & inflation, but we have pretty solid labour laws so it will probably end up relatively fine..
 

Chucker

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,337
Maryland
Yup, I used to give Bungie the benefit of the doubt with some of the decisions they made.

Now I realize Bungie Screwed Bungie.
 

Marossi

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,997
Yep. You can cut costs on other factors (where possible) like rent / licenses / infra / carpool / whatever, but sooner or later you end up laying off employees. And the US has really shitty contract/labour laws so its pretty easy. My company will probably need to downsize next year because profit isnt keeping up with rising costs & inflation, but we have pretty solid labour laws so it will probably end up relatively fine..
One thing that always boggles my mind is, how can you even foster a healthy environment for employees long-term growth when you treat them as disposable as car parts?

Larian Studios and Nintendo's Eiji Aonuma team did not make the two of the highest regarded games of this generation in a team that had to constantly worry about their long-term employment at the studio. We can all agree that these decisions are made because at the end of the day all studios operate as a business, but we've seen time and time again projects failing to break even thanks to product quality. Meanwhile, for the aforementioned examples, we had:

- Zelda Tears of the Kingdom breaking all franchise records.
- Baldur's Gate 3 making a rather niche subgenre break into the mainstream audience and smashing all expectations.

And it is not because they kept spinning the talent wheel laying off and hiring as they see fit. The teams that made those two exceptional games are teams that are highly specialized in their project requirements through trial and error with previous installments. This takes decades to build to.

As a Game Designer, I can confidently say that you can be the best game developer of all time, but you'll still need to adapt into your new environment and find your bearings when joining a new studio. This takes time and will always end up costing more in the long run.

So now we are in a situation where incredibly talented people that are specialized in the project requirements they work on being laid off, while executives slashes costs in hopes that they turn a profit in the short-term, at the same time being oblivious to the problem that the long-term employees have the most know-how than any other talent would have to the specific product of the studio.

Completely confusing and frustrating situation. Something has to change.
 
Oct 27, 2017
7,980
They have *some* say. I think what really happened is they likely advised Bungie to consider some cost cutting (which has been a common refrain for big tech lately) and they let them make whatever decisions they thought was necessary to act upon that advise.
I think this is the most likely scenario, some pressure from Sony for cost cutting and/or profit increase and giving Bungie a free hand on how to do that.
Goddamn Bungie was pretty cutthroat though
 

Minthara

Freelance Market Director
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
7,959
Montreal
One thing that always boggles my mind is, how can you even foster a healthy environment for employees long-term growth when you treat them as disposable as car parts?

This one is unfortunately a very easy answer: in the video game industry, there's so many "passionate" people that for every person you cut you will get 100+ applications to take their place, all willing to take less pay and tolerate worse conditions cause passion!
 

Caiusto

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,755

There's more in the article but some key points.
Bungie's decision to cut an estimated 100 jobs from its staff of about 1,200 followed dire management warnings earlier this month of a sharp drop in the popularity of its flagship video game Destiny 2.

Just two weeks ago, executives at the Sony-owned game developer told employees that revenue was running 45% below projections for the year, according to people who attended the meeting.
In the meantime, Parsons told staff Bungie would be cutting costs, such as for travel, as well as implementing salary and hiring freezes, the people said. Everyone would have to work together to weather the storm, he said, leaving employees feeling determined to do whatever was needed to get revenue back up.

But on Monday morning the news got worse: Dozens of staffers woke up to mysterious 15-minute meetings that had been placed on their calendars, which they soon learned were part of a mass layoff. Bungie laid off around 8% of its employees, according to documentation reviewed by Bloomberg. Bungie didn't respond to requests for comment.
 

Raigor

Member
May 14, 2020
15,155

Red Kong XIX

Member
Oct 11, 2020
7,938

Employees who were let go will receive at least three months of severance and three months of Bungie-paid COBRA health insurance, although other benefits, such as expense reimbursements, ended Monday, sending some staff racing to submit their receipts.

Laid-off staffers will also receive prorated bonuses, although those who were on a vesting schedule following Sony Group Corp.'s acquisition of Bungie in January 2022 will lose any shares that weren't vested as of next month.
 

Marossi

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,997
This one is unfortunately a very easy answer: in the video game industry, there's so many "passionate" people that for every person you cut you will get 100+ applications to take their place, all willing to take less pay and tolerate worse conditions cause passion!
There's always a new generation of hungry fans who want to work at XX Corp regardless of how crummy they've treated people in the past.
Which endlessly repeats the cycle because the same passionate people will have way less knowledge than their senior peers, and most of them fresh hirings will end up not accepting the work conditions once the honeymoon phase wears off and probably move to a new studio or get laid off, which results in specific know-hows and knowledge applicable to the project they work on being lost and needing to be learned once again by the newest fresh hiring that has the 'passion'.

Like, are executives that dumb that they can't see this is not a winning formula?
 
Oct 27, 2017
42,705

Yeah, it's not surprising. I don't know why people in here kept saying it was Sony and that it was consolidation layoffs. The acquisition was announced, meaning it was started, over a year and a half ago. Any layoffs from consolidating the workforces would've happened already. Not to mention Bungie is run as an Independent subsidiary, meaning they have their own separate finances from Sony overall

Bungie management is the culprit

This one is unfortunately a very easy answer: in the video game industry, there's so many "passionate" people that for every person you cut you will get 100+ applications to take their place, all willing to take less pay and tolerate worse conditions cause passion!
Yeah many "passion driven" industries prey on there being a steady supply of (usually young) workers able to tolerate the lower pay, and worse work life balance to work in a field for something they love. I was almost one of them, but decided to go into a different industry for software dev because of all the horror stories i read
 

Kyuuji

The Favonius Fox
Member
Nov 8, 2017
32,323
Really have to wonder what wild number they were cooking for the shortfall to be 45%
 

DNAbro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,953

sedael

Member
Oct 16, 2020
863
45% revenue miss is yiiiiiiiiiiiiikes. Im amazed cuts were only 8% given that. thats kill off entire product levels of a miss. if final shape doesnt get the D2 playerbase back theres probably more cuts coming
 

Red Kong XIX

Member
Oct 11, 2020
7,938

Sony's Bungie Game Unit Cut 8% of Staff After 'Destiny' Play Wilted


  • Sales at studio were running 45% below projections for year
  • Layoffs are part of a bigger revamp at Sony PlayStation unit
Bungie's decision to cut an estimated 100 jobs from its staff of about 1,200 followed dire management warnings earlier this month of a sharp drop in the popularity of its flagship video game Destiny 2.

Just two weeks ago, executives at the Sony-owned game developer told employees that revenue was running 45% below projections for the year, according to people who attended the meeting.

Chief Executive Officer Pete Parsons pinned the big miss on weak player retention for Destiny 2, which has faced a poor reception since the release of its latest expansion, Lightfall.

The next expansion, The Final Shape, was getting good — not great feedback — and management told those present that they planned to push back the release to June 2024 from February, according the people, who asked not to be identified because they weren't authorized to speak publicly. The additional time would give developers a chance to improve the product.
 

ThatMeanScene

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
9,861
Miami, FL
Many of the layoffs at Bungie affected the company's support departments, such as community management and publishing. Remaining Bungie staff were informed that some of those areas will be outsourced moving forward.

Yup, this is what I was touching on earlier. Why have all these dedicated folks for this stuff instead of PlayStation staff or others
 

Bizazedo

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,654
That 45% loss is insane. I knew the game's been hurting and they've also been shooting themselves in the foot (state of the game), but 45%?!

Is that for Bungie specifically or Sony as a whole?
 

Matterhorn

Member
Feb 6, 2019
228
United States
Yeah, it's not surprising. I don't know why people in here kept saying it was Sony and that it was consolidation layoffs. The acquisition was announced, meaning it was started, over a year and a half ago. Any layoffs from consolidating the workforces would've happened already. Not to mention Bungie is run as an Independent subsidiary, meaning they have their own separate finances from Sony overall

Bungie management is the culprit
Sounds to me like Bungie leadership/ownership created insane forecasts for several years in the future to pump up their valuation during acquisition by Sony. You can't just walk that back after Sony buys you, so after creating insane projections to get a huge payday, the chickens have come home to roost. Missing by nearly 50% means executives will be getting fired as well, just may be in the next round of cuts.
 

Carn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,925
The Netherlands
One thing that always boggles my mind is, how can you even foster a healthy environment for employees long-term growth when you treat them as disposable as car parts?

Larian Studios and Nintendo's Eiji Aonuma team did not make the two of the highest regarded games of this generation in a team that had to constantly worry about their long-term employment at the studio. We can all agree that these decisions are made because at the end of the day all studios operate as a business, but we've seen time and time again projects failing to break even thanks to product quality. Meanwhile, for the aforementioned examples, we had:

- Zelda Tears of the Kingdom breaking all franchise records.
- Baldur's Gate 3 making a rather niche subgenre break into the mainstream audience and smashing all expectations.

And it is not because they kept spinning the talent wheel laying off and hiring as they see fit. The teams that made those two exceptional games are teams that are highly specialized in their project requirements through trial and error with previous installments. This takes decades to build to.

As a Game Designer, I can confidently say that you can be the best game developer of all time, but you'll still need to adapt into your new environment and find your bearings when joining a new studio. This takes time and will always end up costing more in the long run.

So now we are in a situation where incredibly talented people that are specialized in the project requirements they work on being laid off, while executives slashes costs in hopes that they turn a profit in the short-term, at the same time being oblivious to the problem that the long-term employees have the most know-how than any other talent would have to the specific product of the studio.

Completely confusing and frustrating situation. Something has to change.

Yeah it sucks. I know multiple people who left the gaming business because it's pretty much a race to the bottom on many fronts, leveraging people's love/passion for coding, art and creating games while needing to perform in an ultra-capitalistic enviroment where down the line it's mostly about the ROI from the investors involved. You got a few years of experience under your belt and you are becoming 'expensive'? Sucks buddy, there are two other guys just waiting to get a crack at their 'dream job in the gaming industry' for less that half your salary so we'll just go with one of them. And this is not just gaming, its pretty much at every industry where art/entertainment and prioritizing profits interact. Shit conditions, shit pay. The proces of creating 'art' (in the broadest sense of the word) lends itself badly for maximizing profits.

It's doomed to fail if not for serious unionization (but if Hollywood is an example; that might not be enough either)..
 
Oct 27, 2017
42,705
Sounds to me like Bungie leadership/ownership created insane forecasts for several years in the future to pump up their valuation during acquisition by Sony. You can't just walk that back after Sony buys you, so after creating insane projections to get a huge payday, the chickens have come home to roost. Missing by nearly 50% means executives will be getting fired as well, just may be in the next round of cuts.
Honestly, I can kind of see this being the case. It would also explain the relatively low percentage of layoffs if the revenue target was artificially inflated, meaning their miss might not have been as significant if the targets were more reasonable
 

Mcfrank

Member
Oct 28, 2017
15,237
45%! Damn, did this expansion crater that hard? That is a massive miss on forecasts. No justification for fucking over so many people but how do your targets get off by that much?
They also didnt sell the seasonal armor this season because people got mad about there being no ritual playlist armor as had been promised. Presumably that typically brings in a nice chunk of money. Combined with steep player drops and 45% makes sense.
 

Minthara

Freelance Market Director
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
7,959
Montreal
So it was Sony ultimately? Basically Sony saw that Destiny 2 wasn't making as much and thus told Bungie they needed to cut costs somewhere and thus the firings began?

Check the post right above yours for some hints to the answer. But missing your financial targets (which Bungie helped set) by 45% is going to mean you need to massively restructure some stuff, parent company or not.
 

The_R3medy

Member
Jan 22, 2018
2,848
Wisconsin
Oh yeah this makes total sense. Bungie is a scrappy upstart independent company who can only afford so much.

Hmm? What's that? Oh they're owned by one of the largest companies in the world? Uh huh. And the execs didn't take paycuts or end up out of a job at all? Hmmmm. Nevermind screw this type of "leadership" from awful management.
 

icecream

Member
Oct 27, 2017
702
Now who wants to argue that Bungie isn't winding down Destiny after The Final Shape?

45% drop in revenue… that's crazy.
 

Pancracio17

▲ Legend ▲
Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
18,823
Fuck. Missing your target by 45% is nasty. I wonder what theyre gonna reasses about The Final Shape. Marathon should stay somewhat on track, just with more pressure on it.