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Ketch

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,295
I figure it's time to post my impressions of the game. I've got two characters to 300 and have everything except for prestige nightfall's, prestige raid, and hardcore pvp. I like this game a lot, but it does have some issues. The biggest thing that bugs me about the game is the way that it streamlines basically everything.... like it's okay to have a smooth user experience, but the philosophy neuters everything interesting in the game.

Here's what I mean:

Enemies auto scale to your light level, so everything always feels the samish difficulty.

You get skill points but can only sensibly invest them linearly... like it would be the same experience if they just unlocked a new perk every level automatically and just let you pick what subclass you want.

Along the same lines, it looks like there's a bunch of skills, but they come tied together so really you only get to choose subclass and class ability type.... there's 48 "skills" per class but you can't mix and match or build your own way... what's the point of the skill tree? It's a charade

Loot drops auto scales to your light level, so every upgrade always gives you about the same boost, there's never really a "oh shit I just got an epic drop" feeling.

It's weird that the strike playlist is random and there's multiple modifiers for nightfall difficulty but there's only one nightfall each week, and I guess the modifiers are hand picked and the same every time depending on the strike. Like why isn't there a nightfall play list where the strike and the modifiers you get are random? So that you can run nightfall's at 280 pl like you ran strikes 250 pl?

Everything drops planet/event specific tokens... but much of the loot table is shared and loot auto scales to your light level so it feels like you're always getting the same stuff anyway. Like what is the point of farming strike tokens if I get the same legendary leg armor I get from EDZ tokens or Nessus tokens or in random purple engrams?

Because all the gear is about the same power level and all the items are about the same power level and all the enemies feel the same no matter the power level, then it all just mushes together, feels very samey and gets boring fast.

There's not much point engaging in these systems because they all lead back to the same outcomes.

They should have tiered the endgame content and tokens into a logical progression. Run public events to get ready for strikes and memories, Run normal strikes and memories to gear you up for night fall strikes, which gets you ready for prestige nightfall's and the raid, which lets you get ready for the prestige raid... and then you can stand in the tower with a full set of prestige raid gear and everybody will be like damn!

Let me pick the item I want to buy with my tokens. 40 tokens for the 265 Helm, 100 tokens for the 285 version. Nightfall tokens for nightfall specific gear, prestige tokens for prestige gear. Tie specific legendary and exotic drops to specific strike bosses, you want an origin story? Or Orpheus rig? Well then you need to farm the inverted spire nightfall for a 23% chance for them to drop.... or whatever.

They should have made the challenges specific and the rewards unique... instead they made the challenges the same, and the rewards the same... it feels like they made it more boring so nobody would miss out, but the problem is every bodies bored.

Edit: it feels like they designed their progression with the same philosophy that bioware designed mass effects story. If that makes sense.
 

ImperatorPat

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,461
USA
I figure it's time to post my impressions of the game. I've got two characters to 300 and have everything except for prestige nightfall's, prestige raid, and hardcore pvp. I like this game a lot, but it does have some issues. The biggest thing that bugs me about the game is the way that it streamlines basically everything.... like it's okay to have a smooth user experience, but the philosophy neuters everything interesting in the game.

Here's what I mean:

Enemies auto scale to your light level, so everything always feels the samish difficulty.

You get skill points but can only sensibly invest them linearly... like it would be the same experience if they just unlocked a new perk every level automatically and just let you pick what subclass you want.

Along the same lines, it looks like there's a bunch of skills, but they come tied together so really you only get to choose subclass and class ability type.... there's 48 "skills" per class but you can't mix and match or build your own way... what's the point of the skill tree? It's a charade

Loot drops auto scales to your light level, so every upgrade always gives you about the same boost, there's never really a "oh shit I just got an epic drop" feeling.

It's weird that the strike playlist is random and there's multiple modifiers for nightfall difficulty but there's only one nightfall each week, and I guess the modifiers are hand picked and the same every time depending on the strike. Like why isn't there a nightfall play list where the strike and the modifiers you get are random? So that you can run nightfall's at 280 pl like you ran strikes 250 pl?

Everything drops planet/event specific tokens... but much of the loot table is shared and loot auto scales to your light level so it feels like you're always getting the same stuff anyway. Like what is the point of farming strike tokens if I get the same legendary leg armor I get from EDZ tokens or Nessus tokens or in random purple engrams?

Because all the gear is about the same power level and all the items are about the same power level and all the enemies feel the same no matter the power level, then it all just mushes together, feels very samey and gets boring fast.

There's not much point engaging in these systems because they all lead back to the same outcomes.

They should have tiered the endgame content and tokens into a logical progression. Run public events to get ready for strikes and memories, Run normal strikes and memories to gear you up for night fall strikes, which gets you ready for prestige nightfall's and the raid, which lets you get ready for the prestige raid... and then you can stand in the tower with a full set of prestige raid gear and everybody will be like damn!

Let me pick the item I want to buy with my tokens. 40 tokens for the 265 Helm, 100 tokens for the 285 version. Nightfall tokens for nightfall specific gear, prestige tokens for prestige gear. Tie specific legendary and exotic drops to specific strike bosses, you want an origin story? Or Orpheus rig? Well then you need to farm the inverted spire nightfall for a 23% chance for them to drop.... or whatever.

They should have made the challenges specific and the rewards unique... instead they made the challenges the same, and the rewards the same... it feels like they made it more boring so nobody would miss out, but the problem is every bodies bored.

Edit: it feels like they designed their progression with the same philosophy that bioware designed mass effects story. If that makes sense.
Some of your items are on Bungie's Todo list at https://www.bungie.net/en/Explore/Detail/News/46427

Here's a short list of updates we're working on:

  • New systems and rewards to give our most engaged players additional, optional pursuits.
  • Better incentives for players who complete challenging Prestige activities.
  • Better rewards and replay value for strikes, adventures, and Lost Sectors.
  • Private matches for the competitive community (we are targeting early 2018).
  • Crucible tuning like adjusted Supremacy scoring and better spawning rules.
  • Better incentives for completing Crucible matches (and penalties for quitting competitive games).
  • Continued improvements to Iron Banner and Faction Rallies, including uniqueness of rewards.
  • Changes to make the mod economy more interesting and impactful.
  • Ongoing improvements to Exotics, including adjustments to reduce instances of duplication.
  • New ways to spend surplus currency and materials (looking at you Legendary Shards).
  • An emote interface that allows players to equip Salty, Spicy Ramen, Six Shooter, and Flip Out all at the same time
 

phoenixyz

Member
Oct 26, 2017
162
I believe the best time is between 260-265 to quickly get you to the softcap. After this i would recommend holding on to them until you hit 305 so that you can use them to get 300 drops for infusion material.

If there is a set you really want (Hunter set from Io for recovery) just go for it now as you can just infuse it to higher levels down the road.

Okay, thanks!
 

-PXG-

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,186
NJ
I honestly don't give a shit about the EXP throttling/ diminishing returns. You still get a ton of EXP (even more with various buffs). Public Events in particular are easy, quick and give you a lot of stuff. In general, the game is focused heavily towards instant gratification. I can only see this being a slight annoyance to super hardcore players who grind for hours on end. But those players are doing that for tokens and materials anyway. Your average/ casual player won't be effected by this. Plus, I figured a lot of games have had diminishing returns when it comes to EXP and loot drop rates. It serves as a means to prevent players from progressing too quickly. It really doesn't bother me, at least in Destiny 2's specific case. In general principle, yes, I can see how it could be harmful to players.

Bungie fucked up by being quiet about this. Them not being transparent and not divulging information about diminishing returns is a shitty move. They should have been honest and forthcoming.
 
Last edited:
Oct 27, 2017
5,329
I honestly don't give a shit about the EXP throttling/ diminishing returns. You still get a ton of EXP (even more with various buffs). Public Events in particular are easy, quick and give you a lot of stuff. In general, the game is focused heavily towards instant gratification. I can only see this being a slight annoyance to super hardcore players who grind for hours on end. But those players are doing that for tokens and materials anyway. Your average/ casual player won't be effected by this. Plus, I figured a lot of games have had diminishing returns when it comes to EXP and loot drop rates. It serves as a means to prevent players from progressing too quickly. It really doesn't bother me, at least in Destiny 2's specific case. In general principle, yes, I can see how it could be harmful to players.

Bungie fucked up by being quiet about this. Them not being transparent and not divulging information about diminishing returns is a shitty move. They should have been honest and forthcoming.

Some of this stuff seems wildly inconsistent though. Take for example the other day Devrim had 300 PL engrams so I exhausted all the EDZ Tokens I had just looking for some particular 300 PL infusion fodder for my Hunter on PC. I had like 10 minutes left until he cycled the PL for engrams so I decided to head out and grab another 20 EDZ Tokens in order to get one more engram when suddenly after getting just 4 EDZ Tokens everything that would normally give them to you just stopped liked the game knew what I was doing and simply said "nope."
 

irishonion

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,237
I'm blocked for some reason. I don't ever remember tweeting him. Lol what...

What does it say anyway?

Next week the Destiny 2 team will detail the systems side of the December update.

It includes: economy updates (vendors & acquiring their gear, tokens, legendary shards), investment updates (new reward systems for weapons & armor) gameplay updates, and more. (1/2)

Additionally, @knowsworthy and I will also be answering some questions and addressing community feedback we've been reading since launch.

See you soon. (2/2)
 

demi

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,897
That's weird, why would Luke Smith and Mark Knowsworthy need to come on stream to address issues? People seem perfectly content with Destiny 2 at 60 hours, playing an hour a day. How odd, you would think there are larger issues that people still have with Destiny 2.
 

Juan

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,441
One thing I don't see people mentioning is that, almost every AAA doing MTx do this to provide free content following the release of a game, not including Season Pass as a barrier. I could quote TitanFall 2, Halo 5, For Honor, Rainbow Six Siege, Overwatch, even Battlefront 2.

On the other hand, Destiny 2 (and Destiny 1) still have both MTx and paid DLCs (and like the DLCs are somehow really expensive) without providing real free content (I don't consider the Faction Rally and Iron Banner as free content on the same scale TF2, Halo 5 & cie provided free maps, armors, customization elements, etc...).

Is the community okay with this? I mean, don't people expect Destiny to be a game as a service like other AAA are now?
 

Kadey

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
6,672
Southeastern PA
This is why Bungie needs to cater to the core group because no matter how much tough things get we'll stick with the game. People are already talking about cancelling DLC and asking for refunds. People just want a reason not to play a game.
 

-PXG-

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,186
NJ
This is why Bungie needs to cater to the core group because no matter how much tough things get we'll stick with the game. People are already talking about cancelling DLC and asking for refunds. People just want a reason not to play a game.

This is why I've always held the mind set that devs should cater to their core audience. The casual players and those less dedicated are inevitably going to drop the game for another. Accessibility usually comes at cost, typically reducing challenge and depth. I believe those are things that make a game worth playing and exploring, what keeps players engaged for the long term.
 

Juan

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,441
Destiny 1 did have free content. Taken Spring, Age of Triumph, Dawning, etc

As I said, while Sparrow Racing was the kind of free content I could expect from a game featuring MTx, I don't consider Taken Spring, Age Of Triumph, etc... as enough as I compare the free update from games like TF2, Battlefront, For Honor, Halo 5, offering free maps, playable characters, customization, etc...
 

Trakan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,215

MochaD124

Member
Oct 25, 2017
354
Yeah the one I find in the world. I don't understand the rotating part though

So when you hand in tokens to the vendors on each world like devrim or failsafe you can pick up an engram from them. The power level of these drops will change every 30 mins anywhere from your level to 5 below it. So it could end up at 295-300 and will stay that level for 30 mins then rotate to another number between.
 

ImperatorPat

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,461
USA
One thing I don't see people mentioning is that, almost every AAA doing MTx do this to provide free content following the release of a game, not including Season Pass as a barrier. I could quote TitanFall 2, Halo 5, For Honor, Rainbow Six Siege, Overwatch, even Battlefront 2.

On the other hand, Destiny 2 (and Destiny 1) still have both MTx and paid DLCs (and like the DLCs are somehow really expensive) without providing real free content (I don't consider the Faction Rally and Iron Banner as free content on the same scale TF2, Halo 5 & cie provided free maps, armors, customization elements, etc...).

Is the community okay with this? I mean, don't people expect Destiny to be a game as a service like other AAA are now?
Call of Duty has MTX and also season passes / paid DLC. So does Halo Wars 2. There are other games with this model. World of Warcraft has a monthly subscription and MTx. I think guild wars 2 has paid expansions and MTx.

Bungie has 1000 employees and bright engrams are pretty pointless. I doubt they make much money from them. Bright engrams and other MTX were originally sold to the community as funding the live team who do updates to the game such as seasonal events (Xmas, valentine's, sparrow racing) and not paying for the content of DLCs.

In comparison halo 5 and battlefront 2 have pay to win MTX and they probably make a decent bit more money from them (well until BF2 had to remove the MTx)
 
Oct 25, 2017
538
So when you hand in tokens to the vendors on each world like devrim or failsafe you can pick up an engram from them. The power level of these drops will change every 30 mins anywhere from your level to 5 below it. So it could end up at 295-300 and will stay that level for 30 mins then rotate to another number between.
aaah I see, thanks!
 

Milennia

Prophet of Truth - Community Resetter
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,285
I hope gameplay updates means a list of nerfs and buffs for season 2 and December 5th, and I also hope explosive rounds and pulse nades are at the top

I need some variety in weapons etc without feeling gimped
 

optimus8936

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,174
I hope gameplay updates means a list of nerfs and buffs for season 2 and December 5th, and I also hope explosive rounds and pulse nades are at the top

I need some variety in weapons etc without feeling gimped
what's wrong with explosive rounds?

imo HCR and Last Hope should be at the top of the list. HCR just adds BS RNG to gunfights and flinch in general in this game is a poor mechanic.

Last Hope is just broken. nothing else to it. it's up there with D1 sticky nades with how absurd it is.
 

Milennia

Prophet of Truth - Community Resetter
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,285
what's wrong with explosive rounds?

imo HCR and Last Hope should be at the top of the list. HCR just adds BS RNG to gunfights and flinch in general in this game is a poor mechanic.

Last Hope is just broken. nothing else to it. it's up there with D1 sticky nades with how absurd it is.
in pve explosive round weapons are head and shoulders above everything else, its not even close really and explosive rounds arent exactly weak in pvp either, in pve you literally are worse off for not using one of 2 weapons because of them

not saying last hope and uriels are fine but im speaking in terms of all pve content
 

Kadey

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
6,672
Southeastern PA
I get to snipe like maybe once out of ten games if that. Bring back snipers. Good games all.

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ImperatorPat

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,461
USA
in pve explosive round weapons are head and shoulders above everything else, its not even close really and explosive rounds arent exactly weak in pvp either, in pve you literally are worse off for not using one of 2 weapons because of them

not saying last hope and uriels are fine but im speaking in terms of all pve content
Agreed. I don't have nameless midnight on my Xbox character. I selected it on PC and it's crazy just how much better it is than Call to Serve or other scouts. ER need a nerf (and a corresponding buff to base damage of all weapon archetypes in PvE)
 

ImperatorPat

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,461
USA
Alright good to know. I am like level 230 but everyone that kills me is 302. I mean I am bad but maybe their gear is helping them as well.
The 302 part doesn't matter at all.

Get a nameless midnight, uriel's Gift, or MIDA multi tool and you are completely equal to them in PvP playlists. Of course they may have more experience in the game which is why they are 302, but there are a lot of 302s who aren't good at pvp.
 

Tachya

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,496
After finally completing the campaign and getting to 20, I'm not sure if I really like the Warlock, but I'm not exactly looking forward to completing the campaign again to roll another class in the near future.

The shitty jump just ruins the game more often than it should. There was one adventure I literally spent probably 20+ minutes trying to make a jump (I think on Nessus somewhere), and finally only ended up making it by using the super. I feel like they didn't playtest that section for Warlocks or something. Titan during the campaign had some pretty terrible platforming as well.

I'm 221 light and having a decent time cleaning up various quests though. Did some PvP to unlock Crucible and did some Iron Banner as well, but it definitely feels like certain weapon types are way better than others. SMGs seem shit for example.
 

ImperatorPat

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,461
USA
After finally completing the campaign and getting to 20, I'm not sure if I really like the Warlock, but I'm not exactly looking forward to completing the campaign again to roll another class in the near future.

The shitty jump just ruins the game more often than it should. There was one adventure I literally spent probably 20+ minutes trying to make a jump (I think on Nessus somewhere), and finally only ended up making it by using the super. I feel like they didn't playtest that section for Warlocks or something. Titan during the campaign had some pretty terrible platforming as well.

I'm 221 light and having a decent time cleaning up various quests though. Did some PvP to unlock Crucible and did some Iron Banner as well, but it definitely feels like certain weapon types are way better than others. SMGs seem shit for example.
Antiope-D and Sondok-C are SMGs and are considered some of the top PvP weapons in the game, at least on console.

Warlock jump does suck although there isn't anywhere it can't go. Are you double tapping the jump button immediately? If you wait and hit the second jump later you lose height.
 

Anastasis

Teyvat Traveler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,612
The 302 part doesn't matter at all.

Get a nameless midnight, uriel's Gift, or MIDA multi tool and you are completely equal to them in PvP playlists. Of course they may have more experience in the game which is why they are 302, but there are a lot of 302s who aren't good at pvp.

Can confirm. I'm 303 and I'm horrible at PvP.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,727
So do other warlocks have an issue with blink not having a consistent cool down period?
Usually I can blink again right as soon as my HUD comes back, other times I've even been able to blink again even when my HUD is still invisible. But every once in a while my blink doesn't come back for like 3 or even 4 seconds. It makes using it for jumping puzzles or anything other than straight single jumps an awkward fucking mess.
 

MochaD124

Member
Oct 25, 2017
354
So do other warlocks have an issue with blink not having a consistent cool down period?
Usually I can blink again right as soon as my HUD comes back, other times I've even been able to blink again even when my HUD is still invisible. But every once in a while my blink doesn't come back for like 3 or even 4 seconds. It makes using it for jumping puzzles or anything other than straight single jumps an awkward fucking mess.

You can chain 2 blinks in a row then there is a short cooldown period of a few seconds.
 

-PXG-

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,186
NJ
Me, igordennis and his buddies just had a stupidly easy flawless run. Thanks for the invite.

And with that, I have full flawless sets on every character.
I just need the Hunter boots and the Titan helmet from Prestige. I keep getting fucked every week

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fc20ew.jpg
 
Oct 27, 2017
185
If anyone is able to help me go flawless on trials, I'd really appreciate it. I've tried a few times with regular crew, but never got it done. I'm on XB1, gamer tag is devon the dude
 

Reflex

Member
Oct 27, 2017
128
Earth
something i noticed when i take hits (explosive or high caliber) while i'm using uriels myself there is very little flinching. however if i use antiope-d the flinch is insane like almost like its glitching out.
 

jotun?

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,515
In the Pyramidion nightfall, is there any reasonable way to approach the last phase of the Brakion boss fight? It always just devolves into chaos and "revive, grenade, rocket, die, repeat". I've finished it multiple times including prestige, but that last section is just always a shit-show, and it seems like there should be some kind of strategy to do it without dying.