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GenG

Member
Oct 26, 2017
458
Fantastic thread full of relevant trivia. It seems that Dreamcast was more groundbreaking that I accounted it for. I only got it very late, around 2006, and couldn't fully enjoy it since my favourite games were already playable elsewhere.

It doesn't help that many of its coolest features were Japan only.
 

ThorHammerstein

Revenger
Member
Nov 19, 2017
3,503
The Service started in May 2001 and ended February 1st 2003. Around 80 titles hit the service, about half being Genesis games and half being PC Engine games.

I genuinely had never heard of this. Then again, this started over a year after the PS2 came out (in Japan) so I'm wondering how many people actually used it.
 

sd_falter

Member
Oct 27, 2017
304
Australia
Sega come back, any kind of fool could see
There was something in everything about you
Sega come back, you can blame it all on me
I was wrong, and I just can't live without you
 

Deleted member 7130

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,685
I feel compelled to go hug my Dreamcast(s) now. The OSSC will be here soon, my sweets...

BTW, this thread and Krej's info makes today's Sega look all the more sad. Went from a company that did probably too many things at once to a company that can barely lift a finger to expose the world to its fabulous library of games.
 

Jaal

Member
Oct 28, 2017
221
did you know that the Sega Dreamcast controller has two buttons that are unused? There are no contact points for them on the board, but the interface for the controller has two additional buttons - X and Z. Only the sega arcade stick featured these buttons, where they'd be recognized by name (aka actually as X and Z, not a repeat of L and R) in game.

This makes sense, because the Dreamcast controller port is essentially the same as the Saturn controller port, to the point where the Saturn 3D gamepad works on the Dreamcast home menu.

Was always a shame to have only 6 buttons on the Dreamcast pad... :(

The layout of the arcade stick was the same of the Saturn pad, where those two buttons would be located on the Dc pad eventually ?
 

Fularu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,609
Did you know that Sega had a VMU + MP3 player in the works?

320px-Vmump3.jpg


This was announced before the Ipod.
Yes most people who were into Sega at the time knew and? The first portable MP3 player was released in 1997 before Sega's dream event even happened and creative had an hdd based one as early as late 1997 early 1998.

Interesting info about the VC though but completely in line with how Sega was operating at the time. They were already into digital distribution of console games as early as 1994 (Sega Channel was truly ahead of its time though)
 

Mark1

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,006
Sega. Truly the company who were too far ahead of the times in the 90s.

I miss the Dreamcast
 

Antony

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,684
PlayStation Home
Will forever be the GoaT console. We'll never see that amount of innovation and ingenuity in a system again :(

Would love to see a definitive 'this is everything the Dreamcast did' write-up...
 

Polyh3dron

Prophet of Regret
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,860
SEGA was an amazing company whose overzealousness was their downfall.

They were the true counterpart to Nintendo, favoring unique and novel play experiences over raw power and pixels.
Sega was all about raw power and pixels. The Genesis had a much faster CPU which allowed it to push more sprites on screen at a faster rate, they tried to market that fact by calling it "Blast Processing", even though, contrary to popular belief, the Genesis actually did have an advantage in this area, which is why SNES games suffer slowdown with much less happening on screen than the Genesis. SNES had Genesis beat in the color palette department though...

But yeah, the Dreamcast was specced to completely destroy the PS and N64 and when it came out with Soul Calibur, it was obvious that it did.
 

julian

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,798
Those games are peer to peer and thus still function online today. If you can get your saturn online, like by using a DreamPi, you can still play it and games like Saturn Bomberman online.

I got a copper landline primarily for the purpose of trying Saturn and Dreamcast online functionality out , and then quickly was reminded that the audio quality is sooooo much better. I was fucking pissed when Verizon shut it off and refused to reinstate my copper line for no reason other than them forcing fios...fucking hate them. It was months of battle until I gave up.

Also fuck you for showing me the usb loader. I've spent too much money this year already!!

Love your threads. Read them all the time on the other side.
 

LuigiBlood

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
98
away from Era
The first streaming game service was Super Famicom's Satellaview and there was already online console multiplayer on the Genesis and SNES through the XBAND peripheral.
Xbands.gif
It was not the first. Sega Channel actually happened less than a year before Satellaview.
But even before that, Sega Meganet in Japan had online play and downloadable games in the year 1990. XBAND was released much later, more like 1994/1995.

...but neither Sega or Nintendo pioneered the downloadable games service. It was Mattel. PlayCable could download games for the Intellivision and that was in 1981. That's way early.

EDIT: That said Nintendo went the extra mile with Satellaview since it has radio, and you could actually keep games unlike the Sega Channel did. That's why the Satellaview is more documented than the Sega Channel does.
Also, knowing about the tech aspects of the Satellaview, it was also very simple to program for if you depend on streamed satellite content such as the date and time.
 
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Deleted member 6263

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,387
Very impressive stuff, Krejlooc! I think Sega Channel was Sega's most "ahead of its time" product. Amazing that we had access to stuff like that back in the 90's.
 

Deleted member 3815

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,633
Sega pioneered some amazing ideas with their hardware every generation. They were always ahead of the time pushing stuff the world just wasn't ready for yet I guess.

I wouldn't say it's because the world wasn't ready for it yet but rather Sega eroded the customers interest by releasing expensive add-on and then dropping them.

Nintendo is a rip off of Sega? Sounds about right.

No, Nintendo were also doing on-line services way back from the NES day.

My Dreamcast is still plagued by the Hardware reset issue. Had to plug some toothpicks between the dents to alleviate the issue. Probably it wasnt made in Japan.
No big issue for arcade games, but I avoid playing any other genre with long times between saves,

PIC_3.jpg

Mine does that as well from time to time.

All that effort to make a VC system for the Dreamcast, and Sega can't be arsed to release games for the WiiU one.

Sega did release some games on the Wii U virtual console...in Japan.

Sega....

I always loved you

Why did you have to die?

Cries

Sega isn't dead, they still exist developing and publishing games.
 

ss_lemonade

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,677
did you know that the Sega Dreamcast controller has two buttons that are unused? There are no contact points for them on the board, but the interface for the controller has two additional buttons - X and Z. Only the sega arcade stick featured these buttons, where they'd be recognized by name (aka actually as X and Z, not a repeat of L and R) in game.

This makes sense, because the Dreamcast controller port is essentially the same as the Saturn controller port, to the point where the Saturn 3D gamepad works on the Dreamcast home menu.
One of our controllers also had 6 face buttons (additional C and Z). It was a pretty crappy controller though and I don't remember how the extra buttons were used.

Dbf98_d.jpg
 

Piccoro

Member
Nov 20, 2017
7,103
It was not the first. Sega Channel actually happened less than a year before Satellaview.
But even before that, Sega Meganet in Japan had online play and downloadable games in the year 1990. XBAND was released much later, more like 1994/1995.

...but neither Sega or Nintendo pioneered the downloadable games service. It was Mattel. PlayCable could download games for the Intellivision and that was in 1981. That's way early.

EDIT: That said Nintendo went the extra mile with Satellaview since it has radio, and you could actually keep games unlike the Sega Channel did. That's why the Satellaview is more documented than the Sega Channel does.
Also, knowing about the tech aspects of the Satellaview, it was also very simple to program for if you depend on streamed satellite content such as the date and time.
Of course. I forgot about the Sega Channel for the Genesis! You could download exclusive games in the US like Golden Axe III, The Willy Wars and Pulseman.
 

munancho

Banned for suspected use of alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
394
d863c0b07c426004cf851fe2ae762919_preview_featured.jpg


Would so like to see a Dreamcast Mini based around the Shield architecture and a professionally developed build of Reicast with a good quality case/controller, HDMI output and online functionality to download the games plus remote multiplayer but knowing Sega if they ever made it it would be licensed to some super janky company and play horribly. Failing that some DC on Switch would be awesome as there were some excellent games and it was by far the most vibrant platform ever.
 

Mantrox

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,913
This thread is way too positive for what where the inventors of the VMU no battery beeeep.
 

Deleted member 30569

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 3, 2017
722
Sega had mouse and keyboard support all the way back to the Saturn. You could also play games online, but not against PC players (or rather, it was never done in a game).

Yea, at the bolded... Wasn't that what, for example, Capcom's whole "... For Matching Service" thing was? I believe it took advantage of the Dreamcast's online capabilities.

Internet competitive play, before the first Halo and Xbox Live were a thing. Damn, I miss Sega!
 

Fafalada

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,074
Did you know that, like the Sega Saturn and Sony Playstation, and unlike the N64 and virtually every console since, the Sega Dreamcast did not have a Z-Buffer...
No extra pixels are ever drawn. This gives the dreamcast, essentially, infinite fill rate, and makes it punch way, way above its weight in terms of graphics.
Not to sound like nitpicking - but these are strictly speaking false.
Tile-buffers in PVRDC come with on-chip depth memory per-tile, and an option for depth-write back, which could be used to run math that operates on entire frame-buffer depth-values later (usually for post-processing effects, but can be any number of other things, including object occlusion).
Likewise the tile-visibility processing doesn't allow unlimited overdraw - it had a rejection rate of around 40pixel/cycle IIRC, which put DCs effective fillrate(at maximum amount of overdraw) at around 4Gpix/sec - which yes, was above even the 2.4GPix of the PS2, but not quite infinite.
 

Deleted member 2328

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,354
Yea, at the bolded... Wasn't that what, for example, Capcom's whole "... For Matching Service" thing was? I believe it took advantage of the Dreamcast's online capabilities.

Internet competitive play, before the first Halo and Xbox Live were a thing. Damn, I miss Sega!
He's referring to on-line play on the Saturn but you're right about Capcom's "For Matching Service" line of games. These games are usually excellent ports and some are very sought after, like Street Fighter 2 X which is arguably one of the best versions of Street Fighter 2 and the base for the HD Remix.
Also let's not forget they were also starting to push voice-chat with Alien Front On-line and Planet Ring at the end of Dreamcast's life.
 
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demondance

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,808
SEGA was always lightyears ahead of their time technologically. They invented a streaming game service (Sega Channel), cross-game content (Sonic & Knuckles), online console multiplayer (SegaNet), a controller with a screen (DreamCast), and a handheld-console hybrid (Sega Nomad) well before anyone else, and probably even more stuff I don't know about. So it doesn't surprise me at all that they invented the Virtual Console.


Here's another one. They did cross-platform multiplayer first too, huh.

This is why I loved Sega so much. They had all these crazy ideas (some misses, of course) alongside all these unique console games and almost amazing arcade games.

Even as they limped along with the Saturn and DC there was still so much cool stuff to enjoy.
 

Deleted member 30569

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 3, 2017
722
He's referring to on-line play on the Saturn but you're right about Capcom's "For Matching Service" line of games. These games are usually excellent ports and some are very sought after, like Street Fighter 2 X which is arguably one of the best versions of Street Fighter 2 and the base for the HD Remix.
Also let's not forget they were also starting to push voice-chat with Alien Front On-line and Planet Ring at the end of Dreamcast's life.

Oops, misread his post... But you got what I was trying to say :-P

And yes, agree with you on all fronts. The "For Matching Service" line has some of the best home ports of their respective games, and they play wonderfully. They have also massively skyrocketed in price over the past couple of years.
 

arglebargle

Member
Oct 26, 2017
978
Did you know that Dreamcast had the best game of all time? It was called shenmue and you could even import the sequel and hex edit your save for continuity.
 

spladam

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
106
Sometimes "ahead of your time" is synonymous with "too soon". It really is a shame that the Dreamcast did not do better than it did. Sega was filled with good ideas, just was not all that proficient at executing them.
 

Hieroph

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,995
You know that, when the Dreamcast died, they were essentially creating the Wiimote, right?

dcwii.jpg


It was intended to be used for NiGHTS 2. It was a pointer-based motion controller. Gunvalkyrie on the Xbox was originally a Dreamcast game, which would have used this motion controller in one hand with a normal dreamcast pad in the other hand, and would have controlled like Metroid Prime 3 on the Wii.
Did you know that Sega had a VMU + MP3 player in the works?

320px-Vmump3.jpg


This was announced before the Ipod.

This thread blowing my mind. What could have been...
 

pswii60

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,686
The Milky Way
It was called Dream Library, and was a part of your japanese Sega.net account. DreamLibrary allowed users to purchase and manage Sega Genesis and PC Engine games online. Once a game was purchased, it was tied to your account and could be infinitely redownloaded. Additionally, games could also be rented for a few days at a reduced cost. Because of the lack of permanent storage on the Dreamcast (a zip drive was announced but never released), games had to be redownloaded every time they were played, as only one could reside in RAM at a time.

Funnily enough, the emulator used for the Genesis titles in this was not the same as the emulator used in the US Sega Smash Pack release.

The Service started in May 2001 and ended February 1st 2003. Around 80 titles hit the service, about half being Genesis games and half being PC Engine games.

The Dreamcast was truly ahead of its time.
Why did the service start after the Dreamcast was discontinued!?
 

MrKlaw

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,103
If the DC had an emulator built in for eg megadrive games - could you run them through a Dreamcast emulator on a PC? What's the most 'nested' emulation possible today?
 

fiendcode

Member
Oct 26, 2017
24,933
This is amazing, although I believe Nintendo had planned a similar thing on 64DD with Famicom games that never came to pass.

and a handheld-console hybrid (Sega Nomad) well before anyone else,
I think it can be argued NEC/Hudson was playing in this space earlier with variants like PCE GT/Turbo Express and PCE LT predating MegaJet and Nomad by a good half decade. Then again Game Gear was basically an upgraded handheld SMS around the same time so Sega was right there with them. Meanwhile Nintendo went in the other direction with Super Game Boy way back too.

Fun fact: Sega originally wanted to include a touchscreen on Nomad. That was back when they wanted it to be a legit full platform and successor to GG.
 

Meatwad

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
3,653
USA
I got a Dreamcast originally in December 1999 with Sonic Adventure, Soul Calibur and a VMU. I never connected it to the internet though, despite that same year getting our first PC and connecting that to the internet
 

batfax

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,417
SEGA always being ahead of the game. Not having SEGA innovating at full blast since they dialed themselves back probably slowed down progress on cool concepts by a couple years at least.
 

Deleted member 1722

User requested account closure
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,058
Stuff like this is neat. Especially things like the stories of satallaview having a very long life in france
 

kubev

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,533
California
You know that, when the Dreamcast died, they were essentially creating the Wiimote, right?

dcwii.jpg


It was intended to be used for NiGHTS 2. It was a pointer-based motion controller. Gunvalkyrie on the Xbox was originally a Dreamcast game, which would have used this motion controller in one hand with a normal dreamcast pad in the other hand, and would have controlled like Metroid Prime 3 on the Wii.
I thought I remembered SEGA inventing the Wiimote as well, but I couldn't place the source. Here it is though. They really were operating several years into the future at any given time.
It's a shame this wasn't released. At least we could play SoulCalibur with motion controls using the fishing controller, though. XD
 

Hieroph

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,995
Wow, I did not know that. Really cool. Makes me wonder what could have been if Dreamcast had done even just a little better.