Difficulty by Design - What’s the Difference between Sekiro and Crusader Kings?

[Mik317]

look i will probably never beat Sekiro.

but even I can see that "making an easy" mode would require more than just flipping some values here and there. The core gameplay loop requires the fear of dying from like 3 mistakes for one. To "git gud" at the game requires getting the parry timing down...which is already rather forgiving.

so yeah in that case an easy mode would make the game worse. Bu-but then just play on normal then, right? Yeah sure but again its more than just hitting the easy mode button, that is extra development and testing time, which could lead to areas/ bosses/ whatever...being cut.

i have severe anexity when it comes to thinking about things like death. This makes it so anything w/ zombies or scary shit. can send me in a mad spiral lol. The solution isn't that people should make zombie stuff less scary..the solution is simply me not playing. Hell Bloodbourne was too fucking stressful for my mindstate at the time it came out....so I couldn't finish it or even get far in it. I suck at most fighting games...my brain just cannot grasp button combos. I can't aim for shit and get super motion sickness....so thus FPS aren't my thing. Yes there are some fighting games that are for my broken mind. Yes some shooters have motion sickness blocking tech. All of that is dandy....and if push comes to shove, I'll just play those. There is enough games around that ones that aren't difficult for me to play are plentiful and those that are...I will simply have to pass on them.

Look in a perfect world everyone would be able to do all the same things. But thats not how it works....and at the end of the day we are talking about video games.....its really not that serious that you cannot enjoy the latest game of the moment. Especially if the reason is "its too hard". Using those w/ disabilities as a crutch for that is lame IMO. Color blind options, controler support and costimization....yeah...

 

[Ponn]

So you don't even know if you were able to play it as is because you never tried it, you just assume you wouldn't be and demand them to alter their entire design philosphy out of principle...cool.

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Ive been playing games for 30 years. I've dealt with my eyesight problem as it's progressed over the last 15 years. I've played a shit load of games. I've played some of the Souls games and bought Bloodborne and tried to play that but had to give up when I couldn't get out of the first town area. I am able to watch videos and when I see people having similar problems as I have with previous From games I can make a pretty educated guess I'm going to be running into the same problems.

Since I outlined part of the problems id have with it above maybe you could address those concerns directly instead of being a jackass gatekeeper. Sorry I'm not dropping $60 on a game that several oh so wonderfully understanding "gamers" here think I just don't deserve to play.

And for the record I'm not "demanding" anything. It would be nice to play these games, I certainly love the art style and theme of Sekiro. I'm not asking for anything to be altered for you or anyone else who want to play the game as it is. Just some options for me and others with my impairment to be able to choose that could allow me to enjoy and play the game. I only see one group demanding anything here that would affect others. Cool, stay classy gaming community.

 

[Apathy]

The main difference is mechanical skill versus brain skill.

You only need a brain, one seing eye, be able to read and one working finger to play CK2. While Sekiro recquires reflexes, skill and multiples fingers with good hand-eye coordination.

About anyone can learn how to play CK2 after a certain point (and it's not that hard anyway). This isn't true for Sekiro.

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Just for the record, from first hand experience I can safely say that sekiro only needs one eye to play as well

 

[Deleted member 17952]

What's the acceptable number of Sekiro players with disabilities before you take them into consideration?


Also games is art debate has long went out the window thanks to publishers. Games are a service now. At best products.

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Hahahahahhaha, this post is so ironically funny, given that Sekiro has zero microtransactions or any online features. We're not even sure if it's getting DLC.

 

[Chaos2Frozen]

I mean, the simplest answer is that there are fewer people rushing to get in on a Strategy game than they are on an Action-Adventure game.

 

[SatelliteOfLove]

This is a blind men and the elephant question that pops up every single time. It's the "What is an RPG" for when a Miyazaki game arrives.

Different things break different people. Learn. Know. Think. Understand. And avoid FOMO, it's bad for you.

 

[Wamb0wneD]

Ive been playing games for 30 years. I've dealt with my eyesight problem as it's progressed over the last 15 years. I've played a shit load of games. I've played some of the Souls games and bought Bloodborne and tried to play that but had to give up when I couldn't get out of the first town area. I am able to watch videos and when I see people having similar problems as I have with previous From games I can make a pretty educated guess I'm going to be running into the same problems.

Since I outlined part of the problems id have with it above maybe you could address those concerns directly instead of being a jackass gatekeeper. Sorry I'm not dropping $60 on a game that several oh so wonderfully understanding "gamers" here think I just don't deserve to play.

And for the record I'm not "demanding" anything. It would be nice to play these games, I certainly love the art style and theme of Sekiro. I'm not asking for anything to be altered for you or anyone else who want to play the game as it is. Just some options for me and others with my impairment to be able to choose that could allow me to enjoy and play the game. I only see one group demanding anything here that would affect others. Cool, stay classy gaming community.

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The only concerthat I saw you outline was calling others gatekeeping elitists, and that is never a good start to a discussion. If those two terms were banned 90% of you folks would have to stop posting because they can't actually agrue anything.
First of all, why do you act like it's in the responsibility of people who think there doesn't need to be an easy mode to change that? I can't gatekeep anything, I wasn't the one who made the game or has any sort of influence over how it's made. If there would be any sort of solution that would handle your eyesight problem with the medium I'd totally be for it. The other poster has hearing problems and complained about a lack of aid in that regard. Completely agreed there.

But how does your eyesight problem influence only Souls games? How would an easy mode make that better for you? I luckily don't have such problems but got stuck at the first swath of enemies in Bloodborne as well for like 2 hours, until I knew what to do, because I went and asked the community instead of calling them elistists and gatekeepers. I saw that quadriplegic guy beat engame bosses in Sekiro, and thought that it's probably got to do with the excellent button remapping that the game allows for and could adapt to his needs. More controller options, colorblind mode, closed captions, whatever else can be done I'm absolutely for. But an easy mode is not that. The people who make this game aren't unaware that an easy mode can be done, and yet they never implemented one. Doesn't that give you pause for a sec and you ask yourself why that is?
And by saying that I don't think you don't deserve to play it, I think you should still try, ask the community for help like everyone else who struggles for whatever different reasons.

 

[Wamb0wneD]

It's because of the view, that society disables physically impaired people. Disability is something imposed on top of the impairment by the way people are unnecessarily isolated and excluded from full participation. This has been very important point for disability movements. It can be said, that games are luxury products and not a necessity. But why wouldn't disabled people have the same rights to entertainment (or art) as others, cinemas etc should accomodate people with disabilities too. Whenever possible, an effort should be made to give people the same chances and best possible experience.

I'll argue in favor of accessibility options against anyone, I'm not ignoring them. But I wouldn't even imply, that everyone needs those options. I understand that there are many different people and many different disabilities. And the possible assist and extra accessibility they need varies too. Captions and color blind mode really don't cut it to everyone, not even specialized controller is nearly always enough.

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But they do have the same rights. Nobody is stopping them to get the game. But if it's too difficult for some people that's just how it is. I will never beat The Witness because some puzzles are too complicated. Maybe I just lack the cognitive abilities to solve them, I don't know, but I'm not asking that dev to make easier puzzles for me so I can see the ending. I bought and tried the game, saw it wasn't for me because of factors outside my power, and moved on.
There certainly were showings of 2001: A Space Odyssey in cinemas where wheelchairs were supported. Or showings with closed captions. Or for colorblind people, at least I hope so. No version made it easier for me to fully grasp what the hell I was watching by leaving things out or having disclaimers running that explain the whole intent to me while the movie is running, and I never asked the director or studio to produce something like that, either.

We had this whole thing before. Even if you would implement an easy mode, there would still be people unable to beat it for whatever reasons, and would still feel left out. Would you then argue in their favour again and demand an even easier difficulty? And if that's not enough, just an "I win" button? Options can't hurt right? Again, I think it's ok to let this one dev handle this the way they think is best. I'm lucky enough that this approach includes me, but there are tons of games where that's not the case. And that's ok.

 

[Budi]

But they do have the same rights. Nobody is stopping them to get the game. But if it's too difficult for some people that's just how it is. I will never beat The Witness because some puzzles are too complicated. Maybe I just lack the cognitive abilities to solve them, I don't know, but I'm not asking that dev to make easier puzzles for me so I can see the ending. I bought and tried the game, saw it wasn't for me because of factors outside my power, and moved on.
There certainly were showings of 2001: A Space Odyssey in cinemas where wheelchairs were supported. Or showings with closed captions. Or for colorblind people, at least I hope so. No version made it easier for me to fully grasp what the hell I was watching by leaving things out or having disclaimers running that explain the whole intent to me while the movie is running, and I never asked the director or studio to produce something like that, either.

We had this whole thing before. Even if you would implement an easy mode, there would still be people unable to beat it for whatever reasons, and would still feel left out. Would you then argue in their favour again and demand an even easier difficulty? And if that's not enough, just an "I win" button? Options can't hurt right? Again, I think it's ok to let this one dev handle this the way they think is best. I'm lucky enough that this approach includes me, but there are tons of games where that's not the case. And that's ok.

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Witness is rather weak comparison, or puzzles overall since you can look up solutions while playing on any platform. It's a barrier that anyone playing has tools to overcome. That said, of course having optional hints implemented in the game would be even better. Thimbleweed Park in example added this after the game's release. Monkey Island Special Editions had such system implemented too. Having hints rather than the straight up solution still leaves a chance for satisfaction of solving the puzzle. Just like easier/assist mode leaves the chance for success through persistence. And yes giving more control to the player than just blunt easier difficulty would be even better, to avoid the situations where the easy mode isn't enough or where the easy mode is much too easy.

You and me are rather different in how we see our favorite games. Grim Fandango is in my top 10, but I've always recommended looking up solutions and hints for it rather than dropping the game out of frustration. Because I think the game is too good to pass up. Tim Schafer and LucasArts made a game that had much more going for it than it's difficulty. I love when people get to experience that, to it's conclusion. After replaying the game when remaster released, my biggest criticism was the lack of hint system (well besides the broken launch on PC). And believe it or not, but many do think that From Soft games also have much more going for them than the strict difficulty.

Why are you comparing story/themes in a movie to gameplay, shouldn't you compare it to the story in From Soft games? Wouldn't that make much more sense to you? It's not like you have to be giving precise, complex and fast commands through the remote to be able to see 2001: Space Odyssey to it's end. You're not required to watch the first 15 minutes 10 times before you can watch rest of the movie. There are some similar barriers to movies and games, like closed captioning benefits people on either medium. But difficulty like in games isn't present in movies. You know this dude, why compare the two mediums like that. Come on now, why does From Soft make you act so silly and argue non-sensical points? You're better than that. I've always took you as a person of logic from your posts, but you're throwing all the logic and rationality in the garbage bin right now. Are you in favor of chapter selection to From Soft games, because movies have those too on dvd/bluray. How about rewind? I've seen people argue that Dark Souls shouldn't have pause, but dvd:s have that so Dark Souls should too? I'll keep this in mind for the next time the topic comes up.

 

[VonGreckler]

The only concerthat I saw you outline was calling others gatekeeping elitists, and that is never a good start to a discussion. If those two terms were banned 90% of you folks would have to stop posting because they can't actually agrue anything.
First of all, why do you act like it's in the responsibility of people who think there doesn't need to be an easy mode to change that? I can't gatekeep anything, I wasn't the one who made the game or has any sort of influence over how it's made. If there would be any sort of solution that would handle your eyesight problem with the medium I'd totally be for it. The other poster has hearing problems and complained about a lack of aid in that regard. Completely agreed there.

But how does your eyesight problem influence only Souls games? How would an easy mode make that better for you? I luckily don't have such problems but got stuck at the first swath of enemies in Bloodborne as well for like 2 hours, until I knew what to do, because I went and asked the community instead of calling them elistists and gatekeepers. I saw that quadriplegic guy beat engame bosses in Sekiro, and thought that it's probably got to do with the excellent button remapping that the game allows for and could adapt to his needs. More controller options, colorblind mode, closed captions, whatever else can be done I'm absolutely for. But an easy mode is not that. The people who make this game aren't unaware that an easy mode can be done, and yet they never implemented one. Doesn't that give you pause for a sec and you ask yourself why that is?
And by saying that I don't think you don't deserve to play it, I think you should still try, ask the community for help like everyone else who struggles for whatever different reasons.

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No one expects YOU to implement an easy mode for people who need it. The fact you are arguing so vehemently against it is what is gatekeeping. Because when people ask for an easy mode, you can't just say "well I wouldn't use it, but it'd be good for those who need it" and move on. That's what is gatekeeping.

 

[Wamb0wneD]

Witness is rather weak comparison, or puzzles overall since you can look up solutions while playing on any platform. It's a barrier that anyone playing has tools to overcome. That said, of course having optional hints implemented in the game would be even better. Thimbleweed Park in example added this after the game's release. Monkey Island Special Editions had such system implemented too. Having hints rather than the straight up solution still leaves a chance for satisfaction of solving the puzzle. Just like easier mode leaves the chance for success through persistence.

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But the game is deisgned for me to solve the puzzles. If I circumvent that, I "beat" the game, sure. But it's not what the dev had in mind for me, and I didn't actually paly the game if I did that. You can look up cheese strats for Sekiro as well. Sometimes simple things like attacking two times, throwing a firecracker rince repeat make the boss not even able to attack you once before they are dead. I'm not even opposed to something that makes sense regarding Sekiro, but just bare hints wouldn't do it, and a mere decrease in enemy health/damage wouldn't either.

You and me are rather different in how we see our favorite games. Grim Fandango is in my top 10, but I've always recommended looking up solutions and hints for it rather than dropping the game out of frustration. Because I think the game is too good to pass up. Tim Schafer and LucasArts made a game that had much more going for it than it's difficulty. And I love when people get to experience that, to it's end. After replaying the game when remaster released, my biggest criticism was the lack of hint system (well besides the broken launch on PC). And believe it or not, but many do think that From Soft games also have much more going for them than the difficulty. And why are you comparing story/themes in a movie to gameplay, shouldn't you compare it to the story in From Soft games? Wouldn't that make much more sense to you? It's not like you have to be giving precise, complex and fast commands through the remote to be able to see 2001: Space Odyssey to it's end. You're not required to watch the first 15 minutes 10 times before you can watch rest of the movie. There are some similar barriers to movies and games, like closed captioning benefits people on either medium. But difficulty like in games isn't present in movise. You know this dude, why compare the two mediums like that. Come on now, why does From Soft make you act so silly and argue non-sensical points? You're better than that. I've always took you as a person of logic from your posts, but you're throwing all the logic and rationality in the garbage bin right now.

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See, I have a lot of favourite games that aren't even difficult, like Wind Waker or Okami for example. But to get to your example, while you recommended looking things up, most people in the Souls community rather give you tips how to beat something and encourage to do the actual beating your own. That whole mentality came from the fact that everyone had roughly the same experience, because everyone had to get trhough the game on the same terms. That's how I got into Bloodborne to begin with, by being so frustrated with the game's start that I made a thread on how I think it has some garbage design decisions. A huge amount of people flooded in there, some of them condescending, but most of them eager to help me with tips how to get around. I never experienced such a huge amount of people eager to help you out before.

Grim Fandango's difficulty stems from an entirely different core than Souls games. A lot of people seem be under the impresssion that you can just add a difficulty slider or a system akin to that to any game, and it would have the same impact or lack thereof on any of them. That's just not true, imo.

Oh and on another note, I'd like to thank you for trying to have an actual discussion instead of just throwing the usual buzzwords around. That person that applauds you for every second post in here in particular was the most insufferable person to have a "discussion" with on here I've ever experienced. Basically did what you did once (and immediately apologized for, thank you again for that), but did it constantly, in the most passive-agressive and antagonizing way possible. Again, thanks for trying to have a discussion on friendly terms about this. Regarding this topic it's way too rare, unfortunately.

 

[Wamb0wneD]

No one expects YOU to implement an easy mode for people who need it. The fact you are arguing so vehemently against it is what is gatekeeping. Because when people ask for an easy mode, you can't just say "well I wouldn't use it, but it'd be good for those who need it" and move on. That's what is gatekeeping.

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Because I realize how these games are structured and how an easy mode would make a lot of these things not the way Miyazaki obviously intended them to be, how the difficulty seeps into almost every other design point of these games. Otherwise he would have had an easy mode implemented ages ago. I'm not saying an easy mode would ruin my experience, I'm saying it obviously goes contrary to what this specific developer wanted his games to be. If his next game has an easy mode, so be it.

So no, I'm not gatekeeping by saying that, and everyone just throwing "elitist" and "gatekeeping" around like candy, or always trying to pin it on some hurt gamer ego nobody is actually talking about, makes a fool out of themselves, sorry. Because you are not actually arguing what the other person says, you're just trying to paint a picture of them to dismiss everything they say. It's lazy and unhealthy for any form of discussion.

 

[Unclebenny]

Ben is right. Imm all for subtitles and color blind options, but not difficulty options in every game.

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Part of Sekiro's appeal is the challenge, most videogames feel like they are designed to be beaten effortlessly. There's plenty of good cakewalk games out there.

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What's frustrating to From fans is when perfectly capable people approach these games with a defeatist attitude or claim not to have the time, when in reality they simply don't want to invest 'however long it takes' to learn the game, maybe even engage with one of the most helpful communities around, and improve. Instead they want its core design philosophies bent & twisted to placate them.

Someone brought up a really great point in another thread about how something as simple as shortcuts would lose a lot of their value and special quality if areas were a cake walk. Same with bonfire placement. I'll never forget the joy & relief I felt activating the Sen's Fortress checkpoint. There are 1000 little examples like that which aren't considered by those clamoring for an easy mode. From bosses, to the audio design & atmosphere, to the world building & lore, the difficulty feeds in to almost every aspect of these games in some way. The cohesion of their design is one of the main reasons we love them so much.

This isn't Far Cry or Assassin's Creed. Implementing an easy mode that replicates the Souls Experience as faithfully as possible is not as simple as adjusting a few sliders. Also where does it stop? Just as many people who find the combat too hard have difficulty navigating the often obtuse methods of progressing the stories and side quests, nevermind following the abstract narratives themselves. How about including a journal option, or allow people to enable Discovery Mode:

After all , who does it hurt?

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This type of opinion is the reason some people might want an easy mode, or more options or difficulty sliders or whatever.

The From Games have become another way to gatekeep our hobby. A way to test if you are a "real gamer". sure other people play games but we play games.

Assuming that the main game remains the same, difficulty options take nothing away for the people who don't engage with them. They only mean that more people can enjoy the world and story that From designed.

The suggestion by many, that this shouldn't be allowed as it will corrupt the purity of vision of the designer, is actually lots of people saying, "either you play this our way, or you don't play at all".

It's fucking infuriating. It's denying people who don't have the time or dexterity (or whatever there's lots of good reasons) to be successful at these games the option to still engage with something they could come to love. It's the classic "git gud" attitude repackaged as "sanctity for artistic vision".

It super insidious as it claims to be for other's benefit, when in fact it is another attempt to homogenize us all into one way of play.

I hate it, if that much isn't clear.

 

[Budi]

But the game is deisgned for me to solve the puzzles. If I circumvent that, I "beat" the game, sure. But it's not what the dev had in mind for me, and I didn't actually paly the game if I did that. You can look up cheese strats for Sekiro as well. Sometimes simple things like attacking two times, throwing a firecracker rince repeat make the boss not even able to attack you once before they are dead.


See, I have a lot of favourite games that aren't even difficult, like Wind Waker or Okami for example. But to get to your example, while you recommended looking things up, most people in the Souls community rather give you tips how to beat something and encourage to do the actual beating your own. That whole mentality came from the fact that everyone had roughly the same experience, because everyone had to get trhough the game on the same terms. That's how I got into Bloodborne to begin with, by being so frustrated with the game's start that I made a thread on how I think it has some garbage design decisions. A huge amount of people flooded in there, some of them condescending, but most of them eager to help me with tips how to get around. I never experienced such a huge amount of people eager to help you out before.

Grim Fandango's difficulty stems from an entirely different core than Souls games. A lot of people seem be under the impresssion that you can just add a difficulty slider or a system akin to that to any game, and it would have the same impact or lack thereof on any of them. That's just not true, imo.

Oh and on another note, I'd like to thank you for trying to have an actual discussion instead of just throwing the usual buzzwords around. That person that applauds you for every second post in here in particular was the most insufferable person to have a "discussion" with on here I've ever experienced. Basically did what you did once (and immediately apologized for, thank you again for that), but did it constantly, in the most passive-agressive and antagonizing way possible. Again, thanks for trying to have a discussion on friendly terms about this. Regarding this topic it's way too rare, unfortunately.

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As you said about tips, absolutely which is why I also specifically mentioned hint system rather than looking up solutions. And likewise you can ask for tips to puzzle games from the community, this is better than straight up getting the solution imo. Similarly I think giving control of the difficulty to the player is better solution than straight up "skip boss battle" option. But one can watch all the Youtube guides, get all the advice from the community and hire a motivational coach, but still they just can't execute what they need to do in mechanically challenging game. But there are solutions available that could be implemented and have been implemented to many great games already, to games that are no worse than From Soft games. Games that still offer the challenge as designed. So From Soft being talented dev too, I firmly believe they could pull it off too.

As for difficult favorite games, for me one of them is XCOM since the original game from the 90s. And while I don't think the devs should force the Ironman mode to the player, I highly recommend people to play with it. Even for their first run, even while playing the game on easy difficulty. Because the tension Ironman brings is in my opinion very important part of the greatness. To me it's integral to the experience. But it's fine that it's an option, I wouldn't want people to be turned off from the game because of that if they otherwise would love it.

 

[Deleted member 40102]

I feel like we get this topic every souls-like game releases its exhausting.... and no we don't need easy mode its simple THE GAME IS NOT FOR YOUR IT HAS ITS OWN GENRE AND ITS DESIGNED WHAT IT SUPPOSE TO BE. Kokatu please be creative with content and stop looking for easy clickbait for the love of god.

 

[StayHandsome]

Shrug. Sekiro has an easy mode. You start on easy. If you want hard mode you ring the bell demon's bell. There's an ultra hard mode on NG+ if I understand correctly

 

[Zvonimir Boban]

So why then, if we are supposed to believe that difficulty and accessibility go hand in hand, do we not see endless articles about Paradox strategy games lamenting their difficulty? My fiancé would rather chew her own arm off before sitting through even 5 minutes of a Paradox tutorial, should they make some kind of change to the game in order to make her more able to play the game?

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It's a terrible comparison because pretty much anybody COULD get good at, or at least competent at, Crusader Kings 2. Pick an easy ruler like someone in charge of an Irish County, put the game speed right down to slow and pause constantly, there's no win/loss scenario in Crusader Kings so even if you are the absolute fucking worst the game will continue while your entire dynasty keep on dying.

If your fiance doesn't want to learn how to play Paradox games that's her decision, not that of the game. You could be a quadraplegic who has to control the mouse cursor by blowing into a straw but still play Crusader Kings 2 if you have the patience and desire and there is nothing stopping you from creating the largest empire in Europe.

In a Soulsborne game if you have trouble holding a controller or you have some condition that affects your dexterity a little bit then no matter how much you practice you will never get past the first boss.

That has nothing to with how much you want to play the game, how much you practice, how much you love the game, the game itself has told you to fuck off.

 

[Wamb0wneD]

As you said about tips, absolutely which is why I also specifically mentioned hint system rather than looking up solutions. And likewise you can ask for tips to puzzle games from the community, this is better than straight up getting the solution imo. Similarly I think giving control of the difficulty to the player is better solution than straight up "skip boss battle" option. But one can watch all the Youtube guides, get all the advice from the community and hire a motivational coach, but still they just can't execute what they need to do in mechanically challenging game. But there are solutions available that could be implemented and have been implemented to many great games already, to games that are no worse than From Soft games. Games that still offer the challenge as designed. So From Soft being talented dev too, I firmly believe they could pull it off too.

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Yeah I edited that part in later...again lol. Sorry. From my mindset, I just don't get why you would go into a game that carved it's whole Identity around being "mechanically challenging" and want it to not be mechanically challenging so you can "enjoy" it, when the whole game is designed around that. I would never go as far as calling it entitled, but rather a confused approach to consumer behaviour. And the question remains that even if there's an easier mode (which would be a huge undertaking for these games, contrary to what some people in here believe), how much easier would it need to be? At what arbitrary point do you set that easier difficulty? Which number of people being left out is acceptable? Because if the answer is 0, you'll never get that game, From Software or otherwise.

 

[Deleted member 19996]

Action Replay and Game Genie needs to come back. I highly disagree with Ben and support adding accessibility to all. Hell, I'm not a Dev but I don't think it would hurt having an easy option that simply buffs attacks, health and decreases enemy damage percentages.

 

[JudgmentJay]

I think the whole "if person X can beat the game so can person Y" argument falls pretty flat, a lot of people wont play or finish the game because mentally it's too taxing on them, it stresses them out because the bar is so high. That means a lot of people who might have wanted to wont finish or even play the game, that's a lot of people who will miss everything awesome it has to offer outside of the most difficult encounters. I'm not sure if an easy mode is the solution or if there is another way to ease the most difficult encounters as an option but if we had that option would it really hurt those that chose to play on the intended difficulty?

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Accessibility for disabled people is one thing, but including an easy mode for people who simply can't be bothered to put forth the effort is absurd.

 

[VonGreckler]

Because I realize how these games are structured and how an easy mode would make a lot of these things not the way Miyazaki obviously intended them to be, how the difficulty seeps into almost every other design point of these games. Otherwise he would have had an easy mode implemented ages ago. I'm not saying an easy mode would ruin my experience, I'm saying it obviously goes contrary to what this specific developer wanted his games to be. If his next game has an easy mode, so be it.

So no, I'm not gatekeeping by saying that, and everyone just throwing "elitist" and "gatekeeping" around like candy, or always trying to pin it on some hurt gamer ego nobody is actually talking about, makes a fool out of themselves, sorry. Because you are not actually arguing what the other person says, you're just trying to paint a picture of them to dismiss everything they say. It's lazy and unhealthy for any form of discussion.

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So people calling out gatekeeping are fools but those engaging in it are not?

Ok sure whatever. Gamers rise up.

 

[Mikebison]

I disagree that difficulty options are accessibility options regarding those with disabilities. More control options, colourblind options, the peripherals that MS made etc are something I'm fully behind though.

 

[Wamb0wneD]

So people calling out gatekeeping are fools but those engaging in it are not?

Ok sure whatever. Gamers rise up.

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The problem here is that you title everything that disagrees with you gatekeeping. You couldn't bother to adress a single point I made but instead just called me a gatekeeper again and went for the gamers rise up meme instead. If you can't see who's the one being toxic to the discussion here I really can't help you.

 

[StayHandsome]

Games being more accessible should come down to an OS level. Reprogrammable controls, colorblind modes, stuff like MS's accessibility controller, are all things that are done at a higher level than a software by software basis.

Games, including Sekiro, would benefit for having more accessibility options.

However we all know the argument about Miyazaki games having an easy mode isn't really about accessibility and never was. It's morality being weaponized to disguise that people just can't be arsed to git gud. Maybe they don't have time, maybe they just don't feel like it, or maybe they don't want to play Souls games and just want to prod at its fans because they don't like the endemic arrogance.

I'm sure Miyazaki and From have considered easy modes and decided against it because the games' core design requires them to be hard. The satisfaction of overcoming challenges brings catharsis. Allowing you to circumvent the challenge because you just can't hack it totally defeats the purpose of even having a challenge in the first place. Hell I'm not good at games at all, and I still managed to beat all the Souls games and love them to death, because the feeling achievement is worth the time and the struggle.

 

[Budi]

Yeah I edited that part in later...again lol. Sorry. From my mindset, I just don't get why you would go into a game that carved it's whole Identity around being "mechanically challenging" and want it to not be mechanically challenging so you can "enjoy" it, when the whole game is designed around that. I would never go as far as calling it entitled, but rather a confused approach to consumer behaviour. And the question remains that even if there's an easier mode (which would be a huge undertaking for these games, contrary to what some people in here believe), how much easier would it need to be? At what arbitrary point do you set that easier difficulty? Which number of people being left out is acceptable? Because if the answer is 0, you'll never get that game, From Software or otherwise.

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This discussion is really going in circles =P But even easy/assist mode would still be mechanically challenging, because people are at VERY different skill levels and have different basic capabilities. I've recently watched someone play Witcher 3, who has been playing video games for a long time. Even rather challenging content in World of Warcraft (mythic raiding). But watching her play Witcher 3 was a huge surprise for me, because of how she struggled in most basic things like changing the signs on the fly or rotating the camera to see behind her. She wouldn't be on equal grounds with you or even me if we all were playing Sekiro. We wouldn't share similar experience, after you finished the game, I'd be half-way through and she would still be at the first boss. Even though we put equal amount of time to the game. Letting to adjust the difficulty, would give players a leg up to achieve the experience that you had and cherish. It wouldn't take it away from them. Unless they wanted to of course and made it too easy for them, but if that's how they enjoy the game then why the heck not.

And I'm not sure the thinking "the issue wouldn't be entirely solved, so it's better to not even try" is ever warranted. But to accomodate more people, give more direct control to the player than just blunt easy difficulty. Just like Celeste in example did. Atleast I've been talking about accommodating more people, not all people. Because accommodating literally all the people in the world would indeed be impossible (people in coma in example). But accommodating like 90% (number pulled from my ass) of all those who are eager to experience and enjoy From Soft games based on their interest but can't seems feasible.

 

[Ryo]

In a Soulsborne game if you have trouble holding a controller or you have some condition that affects your dexterity a little bit then no matter how much you practice you will never get past the first boss.

That has nothing to with how much you want to play the game, how much you practice, how much you love the game, the game itself has told you to fuck off.

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People have beaten these games on dance mats.

 

[Klyka]

People have beaten these games on dance mats.

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someone beat the games using bananas as controllers

 

[daybreak]

Should an easy game like Kirby Star Allies have more difficult modes for people who find it too simplistic and boring?

No, because it's a game targeting a specific audience. The same is to be said for Sekiro, it has a specific audience in mind and that's okay. Not every game has to be made for everyone.

I disagree with the statement that "an easy mode has never ruined a game" - many games, Sekiro included, would absolutely have their core gameplay loop ruined by a easy mode. You could account for this, of course, but then you're demanding the developers create a different game.

I love the sentiment that games are for everyone and that accessibility means making all games an option for all gamers, but to what extent? Sekiro includes controls that can be fully remapped, a big step up for accessibility. There's no colourblind mode, which would be a no-brainer add that would help a huge amount of people, so that should be something to consider. But beyond that, what else do you do before you're dedicating large amounts of money and development time to rework the core gameplay of a title for an increasingly niche audience? It's unfortunate, but at some point people are going to be left out.

Core accessibility like control remapping and colourblind modes are one thing, and make a game hugely more accessible, as seen by the countless examples of people beating FROM titles in interesting ways. Fully reworking the gameplay loop because of a design decision to make the game difficult is asking the developers to make a game other than the one they set out to make.

 

[1.21Gigawatts]

What's frustrating to From fans is when perfectly capable people approach these games with a defeatist attitude or claim not to have the time

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Bloodborne was my first FROM game and it really kicked my ass in the beginning. Had this game offered me a lower difficulty I would have taken it and it would have definitely affected my experience of the game negatively, because, as many have pointed out already, the point is overcoming the harsh difficulty by mastering the mechanics and that only works when the game kicks your ass.

 

[Ravelle]

The difference is that Sekiro doesn't require you to read and remember 20 pages of tutorial text and tooltips. Their games aren't hard, they just can't figure out how to explain how their games work in a gradual and accessible way.

 

[Budi]

The difference is that Sekiro doesn't require you to read and remember 20 pages of tutorial text and tooltips. Their games aren't hard, they just can't figure out how to explain how their games work in a gradual and accessible way.

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I admit that I gave up on Crusader Kings because I thought the tutorial was weak (some may disagree). But I'd strongly suggest they should work on better tutorials, rather than saying that people shouldn't just play it then if they find it a struggle or that "the game isn't for you".

 

[Batatina]

From Software games are absolutely for me. The tone, the stories, the worlds, the level designs, the secrets. There are no other games like them and they are my favourite. So stop telling me that just because I can't sustain the level of persistency required to try a boss 100 times in Sekiro, the game is therefore not for me. If my anxiety doesn't let me have the focus and reflexes to beat your boss to the point that I can't progress, please don't tell me the game isn't for me.

The worlds From makes are my favourite in all of gaming, and you are depriving me of some of my favourite moments by defending otherwise. Let me summon, let me tone down the difficulty, let me farm to get stronger, anything that lets me overcome the fact that I just can't deal with a single barrier in the game. It does not hurt you, and it lets us all share these amazing experiences that From creates, which offer so much more than boss difficulty.

 

[Klyka]

From Software games are absolutely for me. The tone, the stories, the worlds, the level designs, the secrets. There are no other games like them and they are my favourite. So stop telling me that just because I can't sustain the level of persistency required to try a boss 100 times in Sekiro, the game is therefore not for me. If my anxiety doesn't let me have the focus and reflexes to beat your boss to the point that I can't progress, please don't tell me the game isn't for me.

The worlds From makes are my favourite in all of gaming, and you are depriving me of some of my favourite moments by defending otherwise. Let me summon, let me tone down the difficulty, let me farm to get stronger, anything that let's me overcome the fact that I just can't deal with a single barrier in the game. It does not hurt you, and it lets us all share these amazing experiences that From creates, which offer so much more than boss difficulty.

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Get the game on PC, download a cheat engine and one hit kill all enemies bosses then while looking at the world.
Don't see how that's not feasible

 

[Dezzy8]

These people better enjoy twitch and YouTube. I'd love to play Sekiro but I hate playing FROM software games because of their difficulty. I understand that's how they make their games so I'll just stick to watching skilled players.

 

[Patapuf]

Yeah I edited that part in later...again lol. Sorry. From my mindset, I just don't get why you would go into a game that carved it's whole Identity around being "mechanically challenging" and want it to not be mechanically challenging so you can "enjoy" it, when the whole game is designed around that. I would never go as far as calling it entitled, but rather a confused approach to consumer behaviour. And the question remains that even if there's an easier mode (which would be a huge undertaking for these games, contrary to what some people in here believe), how much easier would it need to be? At what arbitrary point do you set that easier difficulty? Which number of people being left out is acceptable? Because if the answer is 0, you'll never get that game, From Software or otherwise.

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I mean, If you want to be crude about it you can just remove any and all death penalties in sekrio. Bam, you have made an "easy" mode where people will still learn most of the stuff that makes the game interesting.

Will they miss out on some of the tension due to the risk/reward mechanics with dying being removed? Of course, but anyone picking that option will know that they do.

You could also just give he player an obscene amount of health, so that a player can fail to counter over and over but still needs to learn to get it right eventually.

You could give infinite/lots more ammo for consumable and upgrades.

etc. etc. i'm sure there's smarter ways to give players crutches and still let them enjoy some aspects of the game.

I'll point to XCOM - a hard game that gives you lot's of options to remove some of it's more punishing aspects (or add some of them). Like permadeath, mission timers etc. Will a player that plays with them off learn all of the smart and subtle game mecanics? No. Will these people have more fun with the game overall? Yes, most do.

When Fire Emblem gave the option to skip permadeath, it's popularity exploded.

 

[Wamb0wneD]

I mean, If you want to be crude about it you can just remove any and all death penalties in sekrio. Bam, you have made an "easy" mode where people will still learn most of the stuff that makes the game interesting.

Will they miss out on some of the tension due to the risk/reward mechanics with dying being removed? Of course, but anyone picking that option will know that they do.

You could also just give he player an obscene amount of health, so that a player can fail to counter over and over but still needs to learn to get it right eventually.

You could give infinite/lots more ammo for consumable and upgrades.

etc. etc. i'm sure there's smarter ways to give players crutches and still let them enjoy some aspects of the game.

Again i'll point to XCOM - a hard game that gives you lot's of options to remove some of it's more punishing aspects (or add some of them). Like permadeath, mission timers etc. Will a player that plays with them off learn all of the smart and subtle game mecanics? No. Will these people have more fun with the game overall? Yes, most do.

When Fire Emblem gave the option to skip permadeath, it's popularity exploded.

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But the dev wanted their palyers to not miss that tension. He specifically said that he wants everyone to experience the same thing, to talk about the same thing in the communities. Literally him: "We want everyone to feel that sense of accomplishment. We want everyone to feel elated and to join that discussion on the same level. We feel if there's different difficulties, that's going to segment and fragment the user base. People will have different experiences based on that [differing difficulty level]. This is something we take to heart when we design games. It's been the same way for previous titles and it's very much the same with Sekiro."

Your proposal of missing penalties also won't stop people from dying over and over again to a single boss if they did so beforehand.

And an obscene amount of health? Why do they need to get it right eventually when they can fail over and over? Why learn any of the mechanics if that's the case? There's no incentive to do so in your example. Putting restrictions and boundaries for the player is a core part of game design. You might as well argue they should give the bosses only 2 different attacks. You can't reduce posture damage for the same reason, the whole combat system falls apart if you do stuff like this.

The upgrades don't change anything about the basic encounters. People struggle with these games because of reaction times, moveset memorization and other things. No amount of "I can swing with my axe two times instead of once" or "the firecracker lasts 0.5 secs longer" will change that.


They don't want you to enjoy "some" of the game, they want you to enjoy it as a whole. I doubt they view their work as a bazaar where you can bargain for several parts of their game to be more enjoyable while completely scrapping others in return because you might struggle at them. Game design isn't a buffet.

 

[Chief Malik]

As someone with life crippling adult adhd, paradox games are basically unplayable to me.

 

[Spence]

Accessibility for disabled people is one thing, but including an easy mode for people who simply can't be bothered to put forth the effort is absurd.

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That's called an opinion and what you are doing is dismissing people who don't agree with you.

 

[sku]

Difficulty options can certainly make a game worse. Take the hardest mode in God of War last year for example, which essentially made you play passively and rely on throwing your axe to chip away at enemies. Additionally, creating multiple difficulties takes up precious development resources and time that might have been spent elsewhere. So it can definitely have an impact.

 

[Patapuf]

But the dev wanted their palyers to not miss that tension. He specifically said that he wants everyone to experience the same thing, to talk about the same thing in the communities. Literally him: "We want everyone to feel that sense of accomplishment. We want everyone to feel elated and to join that discussion on the same level. We feel if there's different difficulties, that's going to segment and fragment the user base. People will have different experiences based on that [differing difficulty level]. This is something we take to heart when we design games. It's been the same way for previous titles and it's very much the same with Sekiro."

They don't want you to enjoy "some" of the game, they want you to enjoy it as a whole. I doubt they view their work as a bazaar where you can bargain for several parts of their game to be more enjoyable while completely scrapping others in return because you might struggle at them. Game design isn't a buffet.

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People already experience the difficutly differently. I've seen it argued that Sekiro is actually easy, easier than other From games, harder than other From games and people that find it hard to impossible to beat.

If From's goal is to not fragment the playerbases experiences they've failed. They also subvert their own credo and do add an even harder difficulty mode. Gone is the universal experience.

It's even more true with the souls games, where grinding, summoning and different builds as well as obviously broken starting equipment to help newcomers splits experiences.

The idea that it's impossible to enjoy Sekiro - or any other game - on anything other than the original difficulty the devs set up is what's strange to me. Especially nowadays when it's obvious that the "original" vision is rarely the best vision a dev can come up with, even when the initial release is polished.

Mods and "houserules" are the perfect example that games can become enjoyable to completely different audiences with some tweaks. In that sense - game design is definetly a buffet.

 

[Wamb0wneD]

You see, people already experience the difficutly differently. I've seen it argued that Sekiro is actually easy, easier than other From games, harder than other From games and people that find it hard to impossible to beat.

If From's goal is to not fragment the playerbases experiences they've failed. They also subvert their own credo and do add an even harder difficulty mode. Gone is the universal experience.

It's even more true with the souls games, where grinding, summoning and different builds as well as obviously broken starting equipment to help newcomers splits experiences.

The idea that it's impossible to enjoy Sekiro - or any other game - on anything other than the original difficulty the devs set up is what's strange to me. Especially nowadays when it's obvious that the "original" vision is rarely the best vision a dev can come up with, even when the initial release is polished.

Mods and "houserules" are the perfect example that games can become enjoyable to completely different audiences with some tweaks. In that sense - game design is definetly a buffet.

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They do, but they still have the same base to fall back on. When somebodyasks themselves how on earth they should beat the guardian apes roar, and someone else just knows to tell them to use the umbrella, or which attacks to better avoid and when to counterattack, it's because they had the same...requirements, so to speak, when they managed the hurdle. The harder difficulty mode is something a lot of players didn't even find though, and even if they did , most didn't use it, for obvious reasons. Making something harder also isn't the same as making something easier. The accomplishment Miyazaki speaks of is still there, it's not the same with an easier challenge.
I think there is a reason why you aren't able to level up in a traditional way in Sekiro anymore, and that got something to do with people grinding in Souls.

And there are mods and trainers on PC. If you want to make the game a buffet, go at it. I just don't think it's fair or reasonable to expect the dev to make it one.

 

[JudgmentJay]

That's called an opinion and what you are doing is dismissing people who don't agree with you.

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That is correct, I am.

 

[Melubas]

Yeah, I'm with the people negative towards adding difficulty settings to some games. I remember when WoW added different difficulties for raids and I immediately hated it. Some games should make you sweat, bleed and cry to reach the later levels, and if I know that my nephew saw the last boss by banging his head against the keyboard for a couple of hours it severely takes away my enjoyment of the game. I remember old Naxx in WoW, and it was this mysterious place that I never got to see since I wasn't a hardcore raider, but you know what? That was fine. It was something to aspire to, I knew that if I got better / put in more time I could eventually one day see it. It's the same with Souls games. If I talk to someone about it and they tell me they beat Bloodborne's DLC I'd immediately know they're pretty good at the game and would feel a bond there, in a way. Gating content behind difficulty is a good thing, and not every game has to be for everyone. I suck at strategy games and racing games and am so-so at bullet hell shooters but that's completely fine, I can have some fun with them but usually don't complete them since I get frustrated or grow tired of them.

I see the same argument being used when talking about fighting games, that execution barriers are not good for the game and takes away from people that can't do it. You know what? Suck it up. Practice. If you don't want to practice you won't get good at it and / or might not be able to complete it, but that's just games. They will always have mechanical difficulty, and there are enough games that hold your hand through everything that I think it warrants the existence of some that are harder. Sometimes you have to put time into things to appreciate them, and if you don't have that time there's plenty of other games to choose from. Barring disabilites and such (which are a minority in this context) most people can complete most games if they want to and put in the time and effort.

Edit: Just want to add that another way to solve the problem with disabilites is to add special controllers or other physical methods of better controlling games, rather than throwing in easy-modes everywhere.

 

[Patapuf]

They do, but they still have the same base to fall back on. When somebodyasks themselves how on earth they should beat the guardian apes roar, and someone else just knows to tell them to use the umbrella, or which attacks to better avoid and when to counterattack, it's because they had the same...requirements, so to speak, when they managed the hurdle. The harder difficulty mode is something a lot of players didn't even find though, and even if they did , most didn't use it, for obvious reasons. Making something harder also isn't the same as making something easier. The accomplishment Miyazaki speaks of is still there, it's not the same with an easier challenge.
I think there is a reason why you aren't able to level up in a traditional way in Sekiro anymore, and that got something to do with people grinding in Souls.

And there are mods and trainers on PC. If you want to make the game a buffet, go at it. I just don't think it's fair or reasonable to expect the dev to make it one.

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People ask for new features/changes all the time, why is a difficulty setting or different modifiers an "unfair" thing to ask for? That doesn't seem like an unreasonable request as far as features go.

Also to the rest of your point, i play a fair bit of hard games as i enjoy challenge. Both, action and strategy games. The existence of an easy mode has never stopped the community asking each other for strategy tips on how to beat a difficult spot. And people that play on "easy" often need strategy tips too, because for many of them "easy" isn't actually easy.

The People do that enjoy a challenge generally... still look for the challenge. Even if other options exist.

 

[marrec]

It's a terrible comparison because pretty much anybody COULD get good at, or at least competent at, Crusader Kings 2. Pick an easy ruler like someone in charge of an Irish County, put the game speed right down to slow and pause constantly, there's no win/loss scenario in Crusader Kings so even if you are the absolute fucking worst the game will continue while your entire dynasty keep on dying.

If your fiance doesn't want to learn how to play Paradox games that's her decision, not that of the game. You could be a quadraplegic who has to control the mouse cursor by blowing into a straw but still play Crusader Kings 2 if you have the patience and desire and there is nothing stopping you from creating the largest empire in Europe.

In a Soulsborne game if you have trouble holding a controller or you have some condition that affects your dexterity a little bit then no matter how much you practice you will never get past the first boss.

That has nothing to with how much you want to play the game, how much you practice, how much you love the game, the game itself has told you to fuck off.

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I'm not going to play the game where I just replace "Crusader Kings" with "Dark Souls" to show you that your objections to my comparison can be levied at From Soft games as well as Paradox games. The meta-point of this thread is to point out that difficulty is not an objective thing. You can play Paradox games all day without understanding the complex mechanisms required to "do well" just as you can play Dark Souls or Sekiro all day without understanding the complex button inputs to "do well".

Difficulty is not defined by a win/loss condition.

Also, no, my Fiancé cannot just decide to learn how to play Hearts of Iron. She physically cannot. For you to imply that it's a matter of her will power is frankly insulting to anyone who had that type of ADHD. I draw this comparison because it's similar to those saying that they physically cannot play Sekiro. There is a barrier that is present in both games by design of their specific type of difficulty.

However, just as some people with physical aliements can still find ways to beat Bloodborne, some people with attention conditions I'm sure still find a way to play and enjoy Victoria 2. Accessibility for these games is not related to this childish definition of "difficulty levels" and is instead presented in numerous ways that affect who can and wants to attempt to play.

 

[Wamb0wneD]

People ask for new features/changes all the time, why is a difficulty setting or different modifiers and "unfair" thing to ask for? That doesn't seem like an unreasonable request as far as features go.

Also to the rest of your point, i play a fair bit of hard games as i enjoy challenge. Both, action and strategy games. The existence of an easy mode has never stopped the community asking each other for strategy tips on how to beat a difficult spot. And people that play on "easy" often need strategy tips too, because for many of them "easy" isn't acutally easy.

The People do that enjoy a challenge generally... still look for the challenge. Even if other options exist.

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I think it's the way you go about it. In the other thread you just had someone call Miyazaki an "asshole" for "circlejerking the git gud crowd". Also asking for an easier difficulty in a Souls game isn't the same as asking for some costumes. Again, there's a lot of design decisions that go hand in hand with the difficulty. Leveldesign, enemy placements and movesets, savepoints, item and currency economy (which Sekiro kinda fails at in NG+). You also have to consider Sekiro's combat system here. Almost all the changes proposed would break the system. Making Sekiro easier while still retaining everything the dev set out to do with it would be a huge undertaking, if it's even possible, and I think they just don't have the time and resources for that.

I guess it never stopped those communities, but it's hard to argue that the Souls community grew so fast and strong particularily because of that. Some elitism surely played into that, at least from a certain subset of gamers, that always get well...kinda toxic, no matter the topic.

 

[marrec]

I think it's the way you go about it. In the other thread you just had someone call Miyazaki an "asshole" for "circlejerking the git gud crowd". Also asking for an easier difficulty in a Souls game isn't the same as asking for some costumes. Again, there's a lot of design decisions that go hand in hand with the difficulty. Leveldesign, enemy placements and movesets, savepoints, item and currency economy (which Sekiro kinda fails at in NG+). You also have to consider Sekiro's combat system here. Almost all the changes proposed would break the system. Making Sekiro easier while still retaining everything the dev set out to do with it would be a huge undertaking, if it's even possible, and I think they just don't have the time and resources for that.

I guess it never stopped those communities, but it's hard to argue that the Souls community grew so fast and strong particularily because of that. Some elitism surely played into that, at least from a certain subset of gamers, that always get well...kinda toxic, no matter the topic.

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Also, I think people are wrong to try and push a morality narrative into design decisions by attaching difficulty to accessibility and implying that by not giving players a choice developers are intentionally ostracising differently abled gamers.

If you challenge someone's morality they will understandably take it personally.

 

[Ponn]

JFC, where do I start with this shit

The only concerthat I saw you outline was calling others gatekeeping elitists, and that is never a good start to a discussion.

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I literally said I had outlined in my above posts my problems. You didn't bother going back to read them

If those two terms were banned 90% of you folks would have to stop posting because they can't actually agrue anything.
First of all, why do you act like it's in the responsibility of people who think there doesn't need to be an easy mode to change that? I can't gatekeep anything, I wasn't the one who made the game or has any sort of influence over how it's made. If there would be any sort of solution that would handle your eyesight problem with the medium I'd totally be for it. The other poster has hearing problems and complained about a lack of aid in that regard. Completely agreed there.

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You are very literally the definition of gatekeeping. I'm not asking YOU to do anything. All YOU have to do is step aside when people with problems are asking for some easier OPTIONS in games from devs and not jump all over them crying "Don't add an easy option in the menu wahhhh"
All while trying to minimalize people's issues.

But how does your eyesight problem influence only Souls games?

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.
It doesn't just effect Souls games. Never said it does. They also took away my license 5 years ago and I can no longer watch and play along with Wheel of Fortune. Anything else you need to know?

How would an easy mode make that better for you?

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Again, if you would go back and read my previous posts you would know I already went over this and outlined exactly one of my issues.

I luckily don't have such problems

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Hey, good for you. So maybe you shouldn't feel entitled to step in and try to tell me how to handle my problem like you can relate..

but got stuck at the first swath of enemies in Bloodborne as well for like 2 hours, until I knew what to do, because I went and asked the community instead of calling them elistists and gatekeepers.

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Oh dear. Thanks so much for your anecdote. I didn't realize over all these years I just needed tips and tricks from some of the gaming community that doesn't have my issue to "get good".

saw that quadriplegic guy beat engame bosses in Sekiro, and thought that it's probably got to do with the excellent button remapping that the game allows for and could adapt to his needs. More controller options, colorblind mode, closed captions, whatever else can be done I'm absolutely for.

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Ah yes, because people with disabilities all have the same problem. It's just a matter of button remapping that can help with my eyesight issues, or a colorblind mode. Oh wait no it's closed captioning that will work for me and my eyesight problems.jfc

But an easy mode is not that. The people who make this game aren't unaware that an easy mode can be done, and yet they never implemented one. Doesn't that give you pause for a sec and you ask yourself why that is?

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Because most devs are gamers as well and it's not an industry that is very welcoming to inclusivity. Evidence? Read through this thread or your own posts.

And by saying that I don't think you don't deserve to play it,

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Really? Because it sure as hell doesn't feel like that.

I think you should still try, ask the community for help like everyone else who struggles for whatever different reasons.

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I mean, like I've said multiple times you couldnt even be bothered to read my previous post where I literally explained one of my issues and how I thought an easy mode could help and not change the game for anyone else.

It's also very obvious you don't have experience with those with disabilities and lack empathy to say things like "just ask for help playing your games". Not that I expect much from the gaming community in regards to empathy. If it's one thing it's good at it's making people feel like shit.

 

[SheriffMcDuck]

I'll point to XCOM - a hard game that gives you lot's of options to remove some of it's more punishing aspects (or add some of them). Like permadeath, mission timers etc. Will a player that plays with them off learn all of the smart and subtle game mecanics? No. Will these people have more fun with the game overall? Yes, most do.

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May just be a lack of reading comprehension on my part, but are you saying that people who play on easy mode(lack of permadeath, mission timers, etc.) have more fun than people who play on hard?

Because that's a load of crap, if so. The fun of XCOM for me has always been playing on Ironman and failing, only to come back on another run and get passed where I was stumped before.

You may also be saying that people who don't want the difficulty options, and turn them off, would have more fun than being forced to play with the higher difficulty options, in which case, yes I agree.

 

[Patapuf]

May just be a lack of reading comprehension on my part, but are you saying that people who play on easy mode(lack of permadeath, mission timers, etc.) have more fun than people who play on hard?

Because that's a load of crap, if so. The fun of XCOM for me has always been playing on Ironman and failing, only to come back on another run and get passed where I was stumped before.

You may also be saying that people who don't want the difficulty options, and turn them off, would have more fun than being forced to play with the higher difficulty options, in which case, yes I agree.

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I may have expressed myself poorly but i mean the bolded.