You can really tell who's watched the video in this thread.
Lockhart isn't for me, but I think it's really good idea.
Lockhart isn't for me, but I think it's really good idea.
Digital Foundry: Can a 4TF Navi GPU Deliver a Next-Gen Console Experience?
- Thread starter Dimple
- Start date
No need to create a dedicated handheld or portable, when streaming can be used with mobile and tablets.
Really interesting seeing the comments made minutes after posting the thread when the video itself is 26 minutes long. Is everything just a reaction to titles now? Not even to an extract in the OP?
On topic, the video was pretty interesting. Yes it was testing older games, but it was also using older hardware. I think even 4 years from now Lockhart shouldn't have a problem running games at 1080 30, especially if dynamic resolution is being used.
This is a console clearly aimed for the crowd who isn't upgrading to 4K, or has no plans to.
On topic, the video was pretty interesting. Yes it was testing older games, but it was also using older hardware. I think even 4 years from now Lockhart shouldn't have a problem running games at 1080 30, especially if dynamic resolution is being used.
This is a console clearly aimed for the crowd who isn't upgrading to 4K, or has no plans to.
People just need to watch the video yikes.
An essential performance match between a theoretical 1440p Lockhart and a theoretical 2160p PS5 system shows that the concept can work. If Microsoft's job is to set a new baseline for console features as fast and as cheap as possible Lockhart is a solid idea.
An essential performance match between a theoretical 1440p Lockhart and a theoretical 2160p PS5 system shows that the concept can work. If Microsoft's job is to set a new baseline for console features as fast and as cheap as possible Lockhart is a solid idea.
I rarely expect people here to read a one page article, let alone watch a 26 minute video.
Soo can't say I'm surprised.
im expecting a ps5 game to look much much better tbh. 9-13TF ,the baseline would be greater than 4tf.
In my defence I've seen all the reaction before I was just trying to get ahead of the curve and hopefully provide context on page 1 so that casual readers aren't just reading the negative press lol š
Absolutely genius move if Lockhart comes to fruition. Every single price conscious gamer will consider buying one.
The hardcore will of course opt for the higher specced machine, which is me and most here.
The hardcore will of course opt for the higher specced machine, which is me and most here.
As I said in another post I get it...but I just don't see that huge of a market...if games are going to be cross gen for awhile then why upgrade to Lockhart at all? Any success depends on when it launches and the price....and price of PS5...
Because Lockhart will be the newest and cheapest option for next gen. Not everybody got a Xbox One or PS4. Access to Game Pass will be more persuasive at the beginning of a generation.
Makes sense if they want a cheaper console on the market, next to the more expensive X. The Xbox One and even the Xbox One X ain't gonna last forever, the Jaguar CPU and older tech just won't cut it after a few more years (it's already struggling on the standard Xbox One) and will be phased out at some point.
The faster Zen CPU and SSD are big upgrades over current gen, so combined with the 4TF Navi, it should do the job for 1080p / 1440p next gen gaming.
The faster Zen CPU and SSD are big upgrades over current gen, so combined with the 4TF Navi, it should do the job for 1080p / 1440p next gen gaming.
Believe it or not people are still going out and buying Playstation 4s for $250+ right now.
Not everyone will want to buy a $500-600 console this holiday. If Microsoft is dangling a console with next-gen features like SSD and RT for $50 more than Last-Gen this Holiday I suspect it will be a tempting offering.
It would be a Navi GPU, so it would be more powerful (more performance per Tflop) than the Pro + with the Zen CPU and SSD, it would be far better than the Xbox One X, never mind the Pro.
Also all that tech isn't cheap, so unlikely they would get as low as $249, maybe $349 - $399.
Navi is more efficient than Polaris, it's not 1:1.
The underlying issue with Lockhart is baseline spec. Would developers build games fully for the 12TF XSX and scale down? Or would developers build for the lowest common denominator and scale up?
The former? Great. The latter? You've effectively capped "next-gen" to the capabilities of a 4TF machine. That's the problem.
no, you can't fit a 4TF SoC in a mobile device. they already have Surface for that anyway
It is astonishing how many people clearly either didn't watch the video, simply cannot understand the data presented or blissfully ignore the multiple posts of people summarizing the video in detail.
How does this happen every. single. time. If you want to engage with the topic, then actually figure out what we're talking about.
How does this happen every. single. time. If you want to engage with the topic, then actually figure out what we're talking about.
Only chance of this being successful is where it lands with price...if not significantly cheaper than PS5 this thing is not gonna be a hit...People are buying ps4s still because it hit a cheap price and has a massive library of titles (and exclusives)...as awesome as game pass is...I think there is a lot of assumption here that the "general public" who will get a cheaper next gen console will then shell out the money for a premium monthly/yearly game pass...
It would make way more sense to have up to date architecture, up to date storage/ram/overall system speed than to just point to Xbox one x, which they've already noted will only be getting first party titles from 2020-2021 at best.
Video is using current gen games...there is no way to know for sure how well a game made for a higher spec next gen machine will for sure be able to scale...look at this gen..the S (and original one) struggles considerably in a number of games compared to the X...
A lot of people don't have TVs capable of 4k or just don't care and are happy with 1080p.
For instance, think of all the parents out there that just want a console for their kids to play the new Halo and watch Netflix.
The cheaper Xbox is not for gaming enthusiasts that post on gaming forums.
Also, stop reducing everything to TFLOPS, there are many other factors in place (like the video shows)
For instance, think of all the parents out there that just want a console for their kids to play the new Halo and watch Netflix.
The cheaper Xbox is not for gaming enthusiasts that post on gaming forums.
Also, stop reducing everything to TFLOPS, there are many other factors in place (like the video shows)
I have a 1080p TV in my office. If I can get a cheap Lockhart box that can run next gen games well at 1080p, then I'd happily buy one.
There's definitely a market for this box. Not everyone needs a 12TF box when they have a 1080p TV. Especially for a casual gamer like myself who will mostly play FIFA and BF.
There's definitely a market for this box. Not everyone needs a 12TF box when they have a 1080p TV. Especially for a casual gamer like myself who will mostly play FIFA and BF.
Good video. I still stand by my prediction of ms having some AI/ML in the mix (Direct ML and hopefully AI at the hardware level) for a "DLSS" implementation for both Series X and Series "S" to go along with VRS to get the performance targets that Microsoft wants. Those things not being considered in the video (which I understand why) along with the efficiency gains of RDNA 2 will get MS what they want in my eyes.
I also still believe in a streaming stick/puck.
Series C - $149 : Streaming "console"
Series S - $299 : Entry console
Series X - $499 : Performance console
Looking forward to Microsoft showing the entire "series" of console devices.
I also still believe in a streaming stick/puck.
Series C - $149 : Streaming "console"
Series S - $299 : Entry console
Series X - $499 : Performance console
Looking forward to Microsoft showing the entire "series" of console devices.
Next-gen...pushing boldly into the 1080p frontier...all sarcasm aside...Actual scaleability and price in comparison to PS5 are going to be key...prob why they haven't talked about it publicly yet...
Considering other parts are in parity there's no reason "next gen" games couldn't run when confined to 1080p.
I'd also be willing to bet that there's a not insignificant number of folks that'd get far better mileage in terms of game resolution by visiting an eye doctor than going from 1080p to 2160p. I used to have 20/20 vision but I'm also well part 30, and was surprised at what I thought to be minor degradation in vision was vastly improved w glasses.
I'd also be willing to bet that there's a not insignificant number of folks that'd get far better mileage in terms of game resolution by visiting an eye doctor than going from 1080p to 2160p. I used to have 20/20 vision but I'm also well part 30, and was surprised at what I thought to be minor degradation in vision was vastly improved w glasses.
This is honestly a great video that makes me happy. Most people (including casual gamers or teens that are hardcore but live at home) never upgrade a TV unless they really need to. I asked all my gamer friends who are even remotely interested in a next gen system and a few of them could not even say what their current TV resolution was and even less of them had a 4k TV (my age range was people 16-26, and I asked 25 people). Most people will likely just go to the cheapest system as long as the marketing is strong enough to convince them that there is a good reason that it's cheap. To be honest, the performance shown in this video was a lot greater than I thought, and I don't think very many games will pull of 1440p native resolution from it (at 4TF) but it will absolutely be able to continue running games throughout the generation at 1080p especially as devs get better at utilizing the power during the generation (as the DF video showed at the beginning with Gears 5).
Think about it this way: The Lockhart is 1/3 the power of Series X and as a minimum will likely be rendering games at only 1/4 the resolution. There seems to be more than enough headroom there for at least 1080p solid and if devs underestimate Lockhart, it might actually end up running some games better at 1080p than Series X at 4k.
Think about it this way: The Lockhart is 1/3 the power of Series X and as a minimum will likely be rendering games at only 1/4 the resolution. There seems to be more than enough headroom there for at least 1080p solid and if devs underestimate Lockhart, it might actually end up running some games better at 1080p than Series X at 4k.
Right, by having Lockhart you could get into a position where your average PS5 game could look better than the XSX even with higher specs. And PS5 exclusives could be full on crazy compared to XSX if they lower the resolution and do 30fps.
Richard: "There is a window of scalability that could work."
ERA first responders: "Doubt." "The answer is no." "Not sure who Lockhart is for."
Really embarrassing, friends.
ERA first responders: "Doubt." "The answer is no." "Not sure who Lockhart is for."
Really embarrassing, friends.
This is actually a really smart idea I hadn't thought of before.
Now that I'm thinking about it, I'm on your side. This is a console that a bunch of people will use for next gen, but nobody will buy.
The most dissapointing thing about this whole Lockhart rumor is seeing how many people think a console is literally just a GPU. They give no thought to CPU/RAM/SSD/Bandwidth at all.
thanks for making a good post and making me realize I just need to walk away. Good choice of words, it is embarrassing.
This a fun topic to talk about and workshop but you just cant because no one is actually listening. you da man garrett.
This x1000. Assuming PS5 is 9.2 TF and lockhart is 4TF, would we be looking at the games being designed for Lockhart at 1080p, and then the other consoles get resolutions bumps bumps only? That would suck.
That nobody will buy? lol
There will be more people with a "Series S" than a "Series X"
Also, yes, Lockhart will also be in the server blades (sometime next year) as xcloud will have to be able to play next-generation games overtime. It won't be stuck on Xbox One S hardware forever. That's another reason for MS to be cross-gen for the first year and change...get enough time to get enough hardware out to their stacks for 2022 when you see Scarlett only games out there but need to be streamed. :)
How is that different than designing a 4k native game for XSX and running it at a lower resolution on Lockhart? We are literally talking solely about scaling resolution here.
Alot like how PS4 exclusives today with CB 4K(TLOU2, GT Sport, Horizon etc) look better than what you find on the One X. The Xbox One at 1.2TF is the ball and chain in that regard, while the baseline for the PS4 PRO is a 1.84TF PS4.
The baseline limits exclusives.
Yet... we still find people disagreeing with what we have known since 2017.
There's a gap between "a window of scalability that could work" when using current gen games as an example and the certainty that things will work when next gen games start to roll.
For a cross period I imagine that Lockhart will indeed be a really good value.
When next gen really starts I'm not so sure.
Imagine a dev trying to push Series X to its limit with a game running on CB 4K @30fps.
How would that possibly translate to Lockhart?
Also people can say what they want about it but when you have lower denominator and you have to deliver at least some standard on it ( let's say Lockhart is 1080p/30fps ) there is always a chance that you will have to limit your creation to meet those standards.
Unless MS doesn't give a crap about a minimum standard for their releases on Lockhart and down the line we start seeing sub1080p with crappy performance.
The Xbox One also has DDR3 memory running at a much slower speed, with much less overall bandwidth, than the base PS4. ITS NOT JUST GPU.
Do any of those games look better than RDR2 on Xbox One X? I'm not sure they do tbh...
Maybe TLOU2, but we've only seen demo's of that so far...
Red Dead isn't good looking, the character models are low poly. Nice effects and filters though.
exactly and all this hinders the One X. Now Lockhart will do the same.
...no. The entire point of Lockhart is its ONLY weaker in the GPU, NOT in the other stuff. Thats what the entire conversation is about.