Digital Foundry: Final Fantasy 12 on PC: What Does It Take To Hit 60fps?

[chandoog]

- PC version finally allows to target high frame rate (PS4/Pro capped to 30)
- With certain graphics cards, some people have noticed sped up animations (DF did not encounter this)
- PS4 Pro offered 1440p res boost where as on PC it's possible to get native 4K
- PC version gets a few minor upgrades over PS4 but nothing major.
- Shadow Resolution and Ambient Occlusion are higher quality on higher settings compared to PS4.
- In certain locations ground textures seem to have lesser texture detail compared to PS4 (most likely a bug)
- The real major benefit is the ability to run the game at 60 FPS.

- Game settings can only be changed via a launcher before launching the game (which does not have all the settings) or by starting a new game to see the full suite of setting options. There is no way to change all the settings while in the game. If you have an old save, start new game, change settings and then reload your old save.

UPDATE:
Apparently there is a full suite of settings available during the game as well. Thanks to Dreamboum for pointing it out.


4K/60:
- On max settings GTX Titan X Pascal couldn't get locked 4K/60. RX Vega 64 performs even worse for 4K/60.
- AO is the major performance hog and lowering it to half res leads to big performance gains.
- 1070Ti can reach 4K/60 with minor inconsistencies with half res AO. Reducing MSAA to 2X can do locked 60/4K
- For AMD cards settings need to be dropped below PS4 settings to reach constant 4K/60

1440p/60:
- 1060 allows 1440p/60 with better settings than PS4. 4XMSAA, high shadows and half res AO.
- RX 580 needs more settings reduced to get 1440p/60.

1080p/60:
- 1050 Ti can comfortably do high frame rate 1080p with 4XMSAA and half res AO. It can still drop from 60. Some more setting management can give you a locked 60 FPS with settings higher than PS4.

 

[Digital Dinosaur]

FF12 continues to age so well it's surreal. Many older games look stilted at 60fps because their animation was never designed for it. FF12 looks like a natural fit.

 

[Dreamboum]

FF12 continues to age so well it's surreal. Many older games look stilted at 60fps because their animation was never designed for it. FF12 looks like a natural fit.

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It's a magnificent game I agree. This is how far where art direction takes you. It was also a surprisingly solid game even on PS2, running at a solid 30 FPS.

I shouldn't be impressed since it was done by the same people who made Vagrant Story a technical marvel in the days of the PS1, but it still amazes me.

The PC port is also very good, my only gripe is that the Depth of Field is too strong for what it is, and if you disable it also removes itself in cutscenes, unfortunately. 1080/60 on my GTX970 with no drops whatsoever and everything max.

 

[chandoog]

FF12 continues to age so well it's surreal. Many older games look stilted at 60fps because their animation was never designed for it. FF12 looks like a natural fit.

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It's a shame they didn't or couldn't add a high frame rate option for the PS4 (Pro at least) version. I already played it there so picking up the PC version is not a priority until it goes on a big sale or something.

 

[devSin]

Yeah, their SSAO is doing something unholy.

They do have a development branch in Steam, so it seems probable the game will get at least one patch.

 

[Dreamboum]

I know some folks at Digital Foundry reads Resetera so I'll leave it there :

It's stated that you cannot change graphical settings while playing the game, that the only way to change them is either by launcher or by starting a new game.

Graphical settings are accessible in the option menu. It's the very first option selected when you click on config. You have access to the full range of graphical settings just like the one you get after pressing new game.

Also slightly disappointed that the support of ultrawide 21:9 wasn't mentioned but I understand it wasn't the focus of the video. I heard the support was good but I was kinda on the fence on buying a new monitor just for this one.

 

[chandoog]

I know some folks at Digital Foundry reads Resetera so I'll leave it there :

It's stated that you cannot change graphical settings while playing the game, that the only way to change them is either by launcher or by starting a new game.

Graphical settings are accessible in the option menu. It's the very first option selected when you click on config. You have access to the full range of graphical settings just like the one you get after pressing new game.

Also slightly disappointed that the support of ultrawide 21:9 wasn't mentioned but I understand it wasn't the focus of the video. I heard the support was good but I was kinda on the fence on buying a new monitor just for this one.

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Well this is weird .. wonder how they missed this. Editing the OP with this.

Don't have the PC version myself so didn't know about this. Thanks for pointing this out :)

 

[KainXVIII]

Full-res SSAO worth performance hit or better stick with half-res/

 

[Dreamboum]

Full-res SSAO worth performance hit or better stick with half-res/

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Nah it's not worth it if you can't hold 60fps. The change is barely noticeable.

 

[chandoog]

Full-res SSAO worth performance hit or better stick with half-res/

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Nah it's not worth it if you can't hold 60fps. The change is barely noticeable.

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Yeah, they have absolutely no issue recommending cutting it in half and don't mention any real negatives that come with it. It sounds like even half res is still an upgrade over the console version.

 

[KainXVIII]

Also funny that this port get 60 fps right, but some AAA games not - like Quantum Break (many animation still in 30 fps and cutscenes of course), GTA 5 or Gears of War 4 don't (both have stuttery cutscenes even in 60 fps, animation not smooth at all)

 

[RayCharlizard]

Another case of "can't run at X with max settings on Y!" where "max settings" includes MSAA x8 for some reason. Have we learned nothing from Deus Ex: Mankind Divided? MSAA should really be kept separate from the "max setting" label, especially at 4K where it's arguably less useful than at lower resolutions. I'm shocked DF didn't test with and without MSAA enabled, instead just lowering to 2x.

 

[MMaRsu]

Apparantly a lot, since it wont run on phenom cpus because of denuvo drm.

f this game

 

[Knurek]

I kind of wish Dark1x would get that video, Dave is competent, but a) doesn't have John's sexy voice, and b) really needs an editor, he repeats certain statements way too much.

 

[Poison Jam]

Also funny that this port get 60 fps right, but some AAA games not - like Quantum Break (many animation still in 30 fps and cutscenes of course), GTA 5 or Gears of War 4 don't (both have stuttery cutscenes even in 60 fps, animation not smooth at all)

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I played through the entirety of Gears 4 at 60FPS and don't remember any stuttering outside of one specific non-cutscene location. :-\

 

[Pargon]

I really hope that someone figures out a way to restore the original textures and disable the ReShade-style post processing. With those eliminated, then I think we could call this version "definitive".
I appreciate the work that's gone into this port to include 60 FPS and Ultrawide support, but I really hate it when studios remake or retouch the original art assets without keeping an option to preserve the original look, and using Denuvo pushes it over the edge to the point that I'm not in any rush to pick it up now.

Also funny that this port get 60 fps right, but some AAA games not - like Quantum Break (many animation still in 30 fps and cutscenes of course), GTA 5 or Gears of War 4 don't (both have stuttery cutscenes even in 60 fps, animation not smooth at all)

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I really hate it when games drop the cutscenes to 30 FPS - It's so distracting when Quantum Break does that.

Another case of "can't run at X with max settings on Y!" where "max settings" includes MSAA x8 for some reason. Have we learned nothing from Deus Ex: Mankind Divided? MSAA should really be kept separate from the "max setting" label, especially at 4K where it's arguably less useful than at lower resolutions. I'm shocked DF didn't test with and without MSAA enabled, instead just lowering to 2x.

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I'd be very surprised if the port is using deferred rendering, which is what causes the performance hit of MSAA to be severe.
In older games, the performance hit for MSAA tends to be relatively minor. Not as low as post-process AA, but nothing like it is in modern games.

 

[brainchild]

Had the returns on the fidelity of the AO actually showed something remarkable, I actually wouldn't be too annoyed by the performance cost. But looking at the final result, no. The engine doesn't seem well optimized for the feature at all. Hopefully it's something that sees improvement over the next few patches.

 

[Deleted member 2913]

I played through the entirety of Gears 4 at 60FPS and don't remember any stuttering outside of one specific non-cutscene location. :-\

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Same, played it on launch and it was fine, unless that changed in a patch or something???

 

[Einherjer]

Had the returns on the fidelity of the AO actually showed something remarkable, I actually wouldn't be too annoyed by the performance cost. But looking at the final result, no. The engine doesn't seem well optimized for the feature at all. Hopefully it's something that sees improvement over the next few patches.

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They tacked on HBAO+ according to the map ambience files (https://imgur.com/mGEw6Bp this is a zone within the Zertinan Caverns for example) which can be quite demanding if not implemented properly, i definitely see a difference compared to the PS4 version though, the normal SSAO there was almost unnoticeable.

 

[brainchild]

They tacked on HBAO+ according to the map ambience files (https://imgur.com/mGEw6Bp this is a zone within the Zertinan Caverns for example) which can be quite demanding if not implemented properly, i definitely see a difference compared to the PS4 version though, the normal SSAO there was almost unnoticeable.

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My issue isn't necessarily that the feature set is lacking. It just doesn't look that great, imo, especially relative to the cost to performance.

Just like with SSAO, with HBAO(+), the implementation (and properly tweaked parameters) can make all the difference in the world, even if the technique is the same.

 

[KainXVIII]

Same, played it on launch and it was fine, unless that changed in a patch or something???

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Version 12.0.something - every realtime cutscene slightly judders (on any graphical settings)

 

[Durante]

21:9 (and higher) aspect ratio support should really be mentioned.
And It's a bit odd that they missed the incredibly obvious graphics settings menu which is exactly where you would expect it to be -- even at the top!

I really hope that someone figures out a way to restore the original textures and disable the ReShade-style post processing.

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I thought I'd want that after seeing screenshots, but after actually playing it I think that would be significantly worse.
The upscaling was pretty clearly influenced by human decision making (i.e. textures that are supposed to be "gritty" used a different type of processing from clean ones, etc.) and while the result is not ideal, in the vast majority of cases it's greatly preferable to the extremely low-res PS2 environmental textures.

 

[Poison Jam]

Version 12.0.something - every realtime cutscene slightly judders (on any graphical settings)

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Ah, that explains it. I also played it at launch. Hopefully they can fix it soon then. It was a great experience when I played it. The game pretty much ran like a dream, and looked amazing.

 

[KainXVIII]

Ah, that explains it. I also played it at launch. Hopefully they can fix it soon then. It was a great experience when I played it. The game pretty much ran like a dream, and looked amazing.

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Already beat it and uninstalled, so really don't care if devs patch this. Also can't say i was blown away by graphics..

 

[chandoog]

I played the latest version of Gears 4 at 1440/60 FPS and did not encounter any stutters users are mentioning here. Weird.

 

[tuxfool]

My issue isn't necessarily that the feature set is lacking. It just doesn't look that great, imo, especially relative to the cost to performance.

Just like with SSAO, with HBAO(+), the implementation (and properly tweaked parameters) can make all the difference in the world, even if the technique is the same.

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Not much they could do, meaningfully. It isn't a modern engine. Also are we sure they are using HBAO+ and not the more expensive HBAO?

 

[Bomblord]

We've come so far I remember when running this at 1080p in an emulator was a big deal.

 

[hardcastlemccormick]

Wow, GTX 1060 running this game at same res, twice the frame rate and better graphics than PS4 Pro? I wouldn't usually expect that.

 

[Dinjoralo]

Wow, GTX 1060 running this game at same res, twice the frame rate and better graphics than PS4 Pro? I wouldn't usually expect that.

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My 970 runs the game at 60 FPS, 1440p with more medium settings that seem to be in line with the PS4 version. (medium shadows, halved AO, 2x MSAA)

I'm impressed they managed to get the game running at 60 FPS seemingly without breaking anything. Though the speed is still tied to the framerate, so that probably has something to do with it, compared to games like Valkyria Chronicles and Dark Souls 2 going for unlimited FPS and subsequently breaking things.

 

[Cats]

I couldn't tell an appreciable difference in AO quality in that video when they switched between the two stills. I didn't even notice it was swapping at first. When it was side by side video, I couldn't see a difference.

Also, honestly, if you were to ask me which one looks 'better' when they still the frame with Vaan turning around and giving me time to inspect it, I'd say the left, which is PS4. I like the darker darks since it pops contrast more. So not really sure what's going on with that feature...

 

[Poison Jam]

Already beat it and uninstalled, so really don't care if devs patch this. Also can't say i was blown away by graphics..

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Well, I do care. Because I would like to replay it at some point.

Do you have to be blown away by graphics to think a game looks great?

I think that's a way to set yourself up for dissapointment time and time again. :-/


On topic of FF12: The game still looks pretty good, but I'm not a huge fan of the character designs. I'm glad Square Enix has made just about every game in the series playable on PC though. Wishlisted!

 

[devSin]

Not much they could do, meaningfully. It isn't a modern engine. Also are we sure they are using HBAO+ and not the more expensive HBAO?

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People seem to think they swapped in Phyre for the old rendering engine, so they're not limited by 2000s tech.

That said, native-res AO buffer is a complete waste of cycles IMO. If their AO sucks, it's not because of resolution.

 

[tuxfool]

People seem to think they swapped in Phyre for the old rendering engine, so they're not limited by 2000s tech.

That said, native-res AO buffer is a complete waste of cycles IMO. If their AO sucks, it's not because of resolution.

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I haven't had time to test it out, but people here are saying that their half Res AO setting is mostly identical to full Res and better than the console ssao version.