I believe any game that uses Nanite is also using primitive/mesh shaders, and you are correct about VRS Tier 2 not being that common.
Also important to note that the one game, DD2, will have a significant optimization patch coming out and already can go above 30fps.
DD2 is CPU bottlenecked like a few other games.
Pro will have nice visual improvements if they add PSSR and more ray tracing features, but that doesn't translate to 30>60fps.
A little off topic, but where is the upcoming optimization patch info coming from for DD2?
Per ChatGPT
In Dragon Ball Z terms, let's break down these details using the analogy of Saiyan power levels and transformations:
Recent details, akin to uncovering hidden powers during training, reveal upgrades to both the standard PS5 and the PS5 Pro, comparable to Goku and Vegeta mastering new forms.
1. **Standard PS5 (Goku):**
- This console possesses 18 WGP (Warrior Graphics Processors), equivalent to Goku's base power level. These are distributed across two shader engines and four shader arrays in a 5-4-5-4 configuration.
- Like Goku with dormant potentials, four compute units (CUs) remain deactivated.
- The GPU clock speed, akin to Goku's speed, operates at around 2.18GHz, suggesting a power level of 33.5TF.
- While powerful, it's constrained by a power ceiling, limiting its maximum potential.
2. **PS5 Pro (Vegeta):**
- This upgraded console boasts 30 active WGPs, surpassing Goku's base power level.
- Its configuration, like Vegeta's mastery, comprises two shader engines and four shader arrays in an 8-7-8-7 set-up.
- Similar to Goku's hidden potential, four CUs remain dormant, totaling 60 CUs in the machine.
- The Pro can boost its power level to a maximum of 2.35GHz, theoretically reaching 36.1TF.
- This boost, like Vegeta's pride, surpasses the standard PS5's capabilities, though it's rare to reach its maximum potential.
3. **Cache Structure (Training Grounds):**
- Both consoles maintain 4MB of L2 cache per WGP, ensuring efficient power utilization.
- L1 cache, akin to honing techniques, doubles to 256KB to accommodate more compute units per shader engine.
- L0 cache, representing refined instincts, improves to 32KB, enhancing ray tracing performance.
4. **PS5 Pro's Evolution (Unlocking New Techniques):**
- The Pro's GPU evolves to include DirectX12 Ultimate features, like learning new combat techniques.
- It gains support for variable rate shading and hybrid MSAA, akin to mastering new fighting stances.
- With augmented primitive shader features and full support for mesh shaders, it becomes more versatile in combat, overcoming previous limitations.
Just as Saiyans continually push their limits through training and adaptation, Sony's PlayStation consoles evolve to deliver greater performance and capabilities, ensuring they remain at the forefront of gaming technology.
Think of the standard PS5 as Goku in his base form. It's powerful, with 18 "Warrior Graphics Processors" (WGPs), spread across its hardware setup. But it's not reaching its full potential because four of its "compute units" (CUs) are inactive, like Goku holding back his true strength.
The PS5 Pro is like Vegeta, always striving to surpass Goku. It has 30 active WGPs, more than the standard PS5, and a different configuration that gives it a power boost. Just like Goku and Vegeta have different transformations, the Pro can boost its performance to higher levels than the standard PS5, but it's not always hitting that maximum potential.
Both consoles have upgrades to their cache structures, which is like improving their techniques. And the Pro has some extra features, similar to Vegeta learning new fighting techniques.
In short, both consoles are powerful, but the Pro has a bit more oomph and some extra features to make it stand out, kind of like Vegeta always trying to outdo Goku.
Never got a PS5. I'm more of a Nintendo guy.
But, when I saw that Demon's Soul trailer, the high quality graphics and minimal UI, I totally wanted to get a PS5.
There's a performance and cinematic mode for that game, right?
Maybe with a more powerful PS5 it would combine both modes.
If so, and if there's a least a few more games that look that beautiful, I'd totally get a PS5 Pro (once I save up enough money of course 👀).
But, when I saw that Demon's Soul trailer, the high quality graphics and minimal UI, I totally wanted to get a PS5.
There's a performance and cinematic mode for that game, right?
Maybe with a more powerful PS5 it would combine both modes.
If so, and if there's a least a few more games that look that beautiful, I'd totally get a PS5 Pro (once I save up enough money of course 👀).
It's in the patch page.
"These options won't affect frame rate significantly. Improvements to frame rate are planned for future update"
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That game was jaw dropping. The first PS5 game I booted up after Astro's. Still top class in my opinion. I played at performance mode at 60fps and even then it looked amazing. I suspect we'll get modes that do combine the two. Quality-Performance or whatever. If that's the case, I hope Demons Souls gets it as well...
Isn't it having problems with 60 even with top of the like PC CPUs?
Yeah. I doubt a single optimization patch can fix this. Usually the "optimization" patches just downgrade visuals enough to hit higher framerates, with exceptions like MSFS which did a big rewrite for CPU gains.
PS5 is Super Saiyan Goku, PS5 Pro is Mastered Super Saiyan Goku after the year he and Gohan spent in the Room of Spirit and Time. He was somewhat stronger, sure, but he didn't outright achieve a whole new form - the real improvement came from his more intelligent and efficient use of the power he had as he'd become more used to the Super Saiyan form and wasn't expending as much effort on just using it. Similarly, the PS5 Pro's improvement in brute force POWAH is rather minor compared to previous Pro consoles, but it will use ML-enhanced upscaling to get a lot more image quality out of the rendered pixels, as well as be much better at ray-tracing acceleration in a way that cuts down on that feature's hit to performance.
An example in the leaked docs used tests on a first-party game - probably Helldivers 2 since that's the only one that matches the specs - that showed how the resolutions and framerates shake out.
PS5 Quality Mode: 3200x1800p (5,760,000 pixels), 30fps
PS5 Performance Mode: 1920x1080p (2,073,600 pixels), 60fps
PS5 Pro Mode: 2560x1440p (3,686,400 pixels), 60fps
So basically, the Pro lands between the two modes in terms of resolution while maintaining 60fps, but then it will also use PSSR, Sony's bespoke ML upscaling, to make the 1440p image look better than the 1800p PS5 image - at least, that's the hope, based on other forms of ML upscaling like DLSS 2.0 and XeSS, which can take 1440p and upscale it to the point of looking better than a native 3840x2160p (or "4K") image.
I know TFs are not comparable gen to gen, but base console is 9 TFs. Isn't 33.5TF to much of a jump? Surely I'm missing something.
The PS5 isn't 9TF, it's 10.23TF. The PS5 Pro is essentially about 16.5-18TF, but with some architectural changes that lead to a doubling of that without an actual doubling of performance.
Honestly same - so underwhelming.
But I gotta get it anyways lol it's barely an upgrade but an upgrade nonetheless. Launch PS5 will get traded in.
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The game has locked 60FPS mode running at 1440p internal res (maybe TAA upscale to 4K, I'm not sure) and a native 4K 30FPS mode. I'm not holding out hope that Bluepoint will do a Pro patch, but the game really looks fantastic in the 60FPS mode already. Only a few games so far rival DS in terms of visuals IMO: Alan Wake 2, Ratchet & Clank Rift Apart, Plague Tale Requiem and FF7: Rebirth are a few that come to mind. Maybe Returnal too for how cool everything looks, and the total chaos it can throw around. Then there are of course TLOU 1 and 2 remakes, which despite being PS4 games originally, still have the best animation and character rendering than probably anything else. 60FPS mode in all of those games would benefit from Pro patch.
Agreed with everything. It would be the obvious candidate technically, but Bluepoint's support for the their games past the launch window has been practically non-existent so far.
Vast majority of PS5 games so far have been GPU-limited. That's why they have 60FPS modes running at lower resolution. There's maybe only a handful that would benefit from faster CPU.
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Warrior Graphics Processors is how I'm referring to these from now on.
OP
OP
I still really dont understand what is this claim based on. The main problem weve had this generation is Performance modes looking too blurry, thats a GPU and/or bandwidth limitation. The amount of games severly limited by the CPU (ie not featuring a Performance mode at all) are tiny relatively.
Exactly look at ANY PC benchmarks as you up the resolution in most games the CPU becomes an even playing field you NEED GPU horsepower.
And ram lets not forget ram especially if you wanna do ray tracing.
Exactly. There's been Gotham Knights, Starfield, Dragon's Dogma II, and... that's it, I think? Some games can't hold a locked 60fps in their performance mode, but cases like Elden Ring clearly show that that can still be a GPU limitation.
OP
OP
Thats not the GPU architecture, these are just features from RDNA2 that were not available on the PS5. The GPU architecture is assumed to be RDNA3 with RDNA4 RT hardware plus a custom Machine Learning solution.
Which is where I'm at and it's annoying they're not just announcing this thing already with some tentative date cause I've been wanting to finally get a PlayStation this generation and now it makes no sense to get the regular one if a Pro is on the horizon.
Last gen this was true, but the current PS5 and XBox have very capable CPUs, here the GPU is sometimes a bottleneck, on paper the PS5 GPU is even a bit below XBox.
Anyway I don't see the PS5 Pro selling well, unlike PS4 Pro the performance difference is almost negible and not needed for most games. Developers will probably have not much urge to really optimize code for PS5 Pro so the performance gain will not be very visible and even enthusiasts will probably think twice before spending this much money for a slight performance plus.
PS5 Pro will not exist in a vacuum, with Switch2 around the corner many people will probably spend their money rather elsewhere.
If there is one thing i learned through experience all the generations even before the nes:
dont focus to much on specs. It's the visual output that it can do. Every gap between each generation is becoming less, way less.
I don't care to much about playing a 30 fps game as 60fps or playing a 1080p game as 4k. I don't see that as a big difference in visuals at all.
It's when someone see a screenshot and clearly can tell the big difference and say this is next gen. For that, it's things like lightning/Illumination that counts.
Things like polygons are become less interesting as we already reached an amount that even more doesn't provide a lot of difference.
So i take those specs with a grant of salt. And wait for the game to proof the differences.
Gta 6 is to be honest, the first game that is going to release on ps5 which i really find the next step of gfx compared to rdr2.
dont focus to much on specs. It's the visual output that it can do. Every gap between each generation is becoming less, way less.
I don't care to much about playing a 30 fps game as 60fps or playing a 1080p game as 4k. I don't see that as a big difference in visuals at all.
It's when someone see a screenshot and clearly can tell the big difference and say this is next gen. For that, it's things like lightning/Illumination that counts.
Things like polygons are become less interesting as we already reached an amount that even more doesn't provide a lot of difference.
So i take those specs with a grant of salt. And wait for the game to proof the differences.
Gta 6 is to be honest, the first game that is going to release on ps5 which i really find the next step of gfx compared to rdr2.
Personally, HFW looks better than all the games you've listed here. Don't understand me wrong, all of those games look great (well, FF7 Rebirth, even in the Quality mode, can look really ugly in some scenes), but HFW being an open-world game and still looking almost pre-rendered sometimes still make me believe that it's the best looking console game - even two years after launch.
ngl looks and size are so important to me, I wouldn't sell my amateur PS5 before I've seen the Pro
Seeing as the PS5 and PS5 Pro devkits are identical in size, possibly the same size as the OG PS5?
Capable is really dependent on workflows and it weakness are double, single thread, any form of heavy RT as hits CPU&GPU and heavy sim games as the ryzen bump against last gen machines is solid but barely anything to what devs making decent mid range platforms could work with.
How on earth is GPU at the specs we got with ML a bottleneck when it won't have a cpu ever fast enough to feed it?
Most devs worth their salt will use PS5 Pro/PS6 to learn how to catch up to what nvidia is offering in pc land. You don't have to optimize all that much for the main benefits of this system when it will easily let devs use 1080/1440 and inch closer to 4k or use post better processing. We could have decent RT performance as well which isn't happening on baseline PS5 or xbox yet you seriously think the xbox series gpu is better.
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Fairly convinced there are some sort of streaming limitation or the way UE4/5 handle texture. Looking at similar game like recent stellar blade, same low quality texture in open world spots despite being deemed ultra polished. I think it is a way the dev mitigate traversal stutter. If you look at the most advanced UE4 title like jedi survivor, it has higher quality texture all around and much more consistently but also major traversal stutter on all platforms. Heck even AAA Ue5 title like immortal of avuem has low res texture. I have yet seen a large open world UE4 title with high res texture that runs perfectly on any platforms. Bottom line it's the engine limitations
I haven't played Avatar yet, but so far nothing can touch HFW visually, at least not on consoles. It is stunning, even at 60 FPS.
As of now we all should have learned that Sony doesn't need a system seller to sell a lot of consoles.
Interesting tidbits about the DX12 Complete Feature now coming to the PS5 Pro, will enable Devs easier porting to PS5 from PC versions for sure.
Can't wait for the PS5 Pro honestly there's a couple of games I'm leaving it out to play on it later on.
Can't wait for the PS5 Pro honestly there's a couple of games I'm leaving it out to play on it later on.
These claims are baseless. They're just FUD. Ask anyone posting this to name the 30fps games they're talking about. You won't get much of an answer.