Digital Foundry: PlayStation 5/ Xbox Series X New GPU Spec Leak Analysis: 9.2TF vs 12TF?

Truant · Dec 30, 2019

While the best situation would be that both consoles are virtually identical in terms of power, it would be fun to see what happens if Microsoft takes the lead for next gen. I buy every console + a PC, so I have no stake in anything. I just like to sit back and watch y'all lose your minds.

PlanetSmasher · Dec 30, 2019

Proven said:
Nah you're just making things up lol

I was asking a question because I don't follow next-gen hardware threads. The only thing I've seen on the subject was Warren talking about the teraflop gap.

BubblegumNemesis · Dec 30, 2019

Fredrik said:
I don't think Era matter, or NeoGaf at the time. I think Xbox fans should thank Sony. Kinda like Sony fans should thank Nintendo, if you know the history.

But I still think Sony has an ace in their sleeves. If it's not power then it'll be a crazy low price or PSVR packed in or PSNow 2.0 free or free online gaming or something else nobody can see coming at this point.

Knack 3 confirmed!!!

Kuosi · Dec 30, 2019

People just can't take the video for what it is, even tho it clearly states its purpose, without losing their shit, amazing.

jesu · Dec 30, 2019

BrucCLea13k87 said:
Please look into the other thread. It's been explicitly stated there. The leak shows that a 9.2TF chip has been tested. They most likely have a stronger chip that is more current. Look into the other thread and search for Matt's comments. He's already debunked the 9.2TF rumor. He did it earlier today.

Do you mean this post, or this there another one I've missed?

Matt said:
I'm glad to see we've moved pass thinking the Github leak was confirmation of anything.

Because that isn't confirming anything.

VinFTW · Dec 30, 2019

plagiarize said:
The original information (outdated or otherwise) has been verified by DF as having come from AMD.

Whether it represents current clock speeds (which can change last minute) or current hardware (given when it's from) we can only speculate, but it looks like this information was accurate at the time it hit github.

"Current" "at that time". You should check out Panellos post in the next gen thread, it's very insightful and revealing.

These things don't change that much if at all that close to launch.

RingRang · Dec 30, 2019

snowhite said:
I "added up" the consoles to show the teraflop gap. Nothing more and nothing less. And the fact that you keep arguing the "most games don't show that kind of difference" point despite existing evidence is sad. Do you want me to start posting quotes from DF comparison videos to make my point? I have a suspicion you wouldn't be convinced by that either. Oh well, I can't show you what you aren't willing to see.

I'm sorry, do we know each other? You seem to be talking like we've discussed this topic before and you know where I stand on everything.

Posting quotes from DF would not prove anything contrary to what I said. Most games don't show stark differences between the X and the Pro. That is a fact. There are definitely games that do, but most don't. As an owner of the X and the Pro I certainly keep up on this stuff and I rarely see Digital Foundy saying things are wildly different.

B.C. · Dec 30, 2019

GemmolSwitchPS4 said:
not true there is big loyalty on this website and others

This too. Facts is facts and stuff. All good though.

Daddy JeanPi · Dec 30, 2019

Lonely1 said:
Focusing on the raw tflop gap is foolhardy. By that measure the PS4 is closer to the Nes than the PS4Pro.

How many tflops is the nes?

nelsonroyale · Dec 30, 2019

snowhite said:
Because Lockhart will supposedly be way cheaper than the PS5. While the price of Series X vs the PS5 is pure speculation.

I "added up" the consoles to show the teraflop gap. Nothing more and nothing less. And the fact that you keep arguing the "most games don't show that kind of difference" point despite existing evidence is sad. Do you want me to start posting quotes from DF comparison videos to make my point? I have a suspicion you wouldn't be convinced by that either. Oh well, I can't show you what you aren't willing to see.

There has been no indication Lochart will be 'way cheaper'. Just that it will likely price the lowest considering it would be the lowest spec by a substantial margin. But I don't think they can go below 299. With these speces, it seems most likely to be 299 lockhart, 399 PS5 and 499 XSX. I would argue at that, PS5 and XSX offer the best value, but Lockhard is the cheapest.

CasualsareFilth · Dec 30, 2019

This might be the case but I'm willing to bet Sony first party games will still outshine MS from a graphical point of view anyhow.

XboxCowdry · Dec 30, 2019

Fredrik said:
I don't think Era matter, or NeoGaf at the time. I think Xbox fans should thank Sony. Kinda like Sony fans should thank Nintendo, if you know the history.

But I still think Sony has an ace in their sleeves. If it's not power then it'll be a crazy low price or PSVR packed in or PSNow 2.0 free or free online gaming or something else nobody can see coming at this point.

My history starts with the ZX Spectrum so I'll not look to thank Nintendo or SONY more so as I'm a SEGA man LOL. SONY ace is their in-House studios and their name. VR is niche (I love it mind) and PS Now isn't a patch on Gamepass for value or game line up. And for the life of me, I can't see Microsoft giving SONY another $100 price advantage.

P

Vasto · Dec 30, 2019

RingRang said:
Games will always be the biggest factor. That is why prior to the PS4 the most powerful console had never won a generation.

After games I think price is the second biggest factor, and again the XB1 was a hard fail in that category at launch. It was the combination of weaker hardware AND a higher price that made the XB1 such an embarrassing situation. Not to mention the terrible policies Microsoft tried to implement, and the backlash that created.

People seem to try and re-write the XB1 vs PS4 story to just being about specs, when in reality it was much bigger than that.

Nope,

You are speaking for your self. I am not saying that power matters to everybody. If it did nobody would buy a Switch and nobody would have bought the orignal Xbox One.

Some people are going to buy the most powerful console because they want the best performance in their games. There is a reason why the #1 topic is power and everybody wants to know is which console will be more powerful.

NattyBo · Dec 30, 2019

This really doesn't influence my purchase plans if it turns out to be true. I'll remain in the PC, PS and Nintendo ecosystems.

Fedeuy · Dec 30, 2019

Instro said:
Imagine console warring over this.

And yet here we are :/

plagiarize · Dec 30, 2019

Unkindled said:
That should be the ballpark where 4k 60fps on AAA games should be possible 9.2 TF seems low for that.

I presume this is based then on the idea that the 6 TF Xbox One X can do 30 fps at 4K native? I wouldn't read much into such comparisons for a few reasons. I doubt 4K native with 60 fps becomes the target for much (although I'd *love* if it did). I also expect games to do a lot more than look like X games at twice the framerate.

My 14 TF PC GPU can't do ray tracing at native 4K 60 in any title for example. I'd rather something next gen look like Metro Exodus on PC than RE2 remake on PC. I know which looks more 'next gen' to me.

VinFTW said:
"Current" "at that time". You should check out Panellos post in the next gen thread, it's very insightful and revealing.

These things don't change that much if at all that close to launch.

Exact clock speeds can change even after hardware ships. We can presume the ball park is right, but we could see small changes based on yields and thermal testing of final units.

PlanetSmasher · Dec 30, 2019

plagiarize said:
The original information (outdated or otherwise) has been verified by DF as having come from AMD.

Whether it represents current clock speeds (which can change last minute) or current hardware (given when it's from) we can only speculate, but it looks like this information was accurate at the time it hit github.

Cool. That's what I was curious about. I usually try to avoid hardware spec discussions so I don't know where information came from. The only thing I saw was Warren's tweets so I wasn't sure if he was the source or if there was a better one.

If there's a huge power gap between the PS5 and the XBSX that seems like a really, really stupid miscalculation on Sony's part unless they plan to massively undercut Microsoft on price.

Y2Kev · Dec 30, 2019

I think price is pretty important here assuming the products are substitutable. I think the real question is if you consider a lower spec Xbox to be substitutable with PS5. I'm not sure they are but the theory hasn't been tested since last generation and things are kinda different (and it's debatable the 360 was "lower spec").

Night Hunter · Dec 30, 2019

The only thing I had to see about this "leak" is the 2GHz clock to know this won't be anywhere close to the final product.

Never going to happen. They'll go wide and slow, like they have always done.

SpokkX · Dec 30, 2019

I find it weird people think ps5 will be more powerful that xbx?

sony has never had a more powerful console than ms in the high end market

Org xb > ps2
360 = ps3
Xb1X > ps4pro (first time a high end version is out)

Sqrt · Dec 30, 2019

Daddy JeanPi said:
How many tflops is the nes?

About 0.000001, or about 1Mflop.

Manmademan · Dec 30, 2019

jandg said:
Why would the PS5 have the higher install base? They can still fuck up like they did with the PS3. Just like how MS fucked up current gen.

Sony still needs to sell the machine, and they haven't even started yet. Way too presumptuous

The ps3 launched at the current equivalent of $750. Sony knew it would be losing marketshare but considered it "worth it" to push Blu Ray and Cell in the market.

It outsold the 360 every year the two were on the market despite the massive gulf in price points and lower third party support.

The two systems were "tied" only because MS launched a year earlier, AND the 360 got a 20millionish mid generation bump from the Kinect, which isn't a thing they could repeat with the XBO.

The fact is that Microsoft simply does not compete in 2/3rds of the world where Sony sells systems. There's no way around that. Since we know Sony isn't launching an insanely expensive box a year late this time there is no way for Microsoft to "win" the generation by running up the score in the US and UK. This is especially true given that vendor lock in to both ecosystems is high. No one wants to "lose" their digital catalogue or friends lists.

The generation is already decided, which is why MS's focus is on generating revenue through other means than selling console boxes.

VinFTW · Dec 30, 2019

plagiarize said:
I presume this is based then on the idea that the 6 TF Xbox One X can do 30 fps at 4K native? I wouldn't read much into such comparisons for a few reasons. I doubt 4K native with 60 fps becomes the target for much (although I'd *love* if it did). I also expect games to do a lot more than look like X games at twice the framerate.

My 14 TF PC GPU can't do ray tracing at native 4K 60 in any title for example. I'd rather something next gen look like Metro Exodus on PC than RE2 remake on PC. I know which looks more 'next gen' to me.

Exact clock speeds can change even after hardware ships. We can presume the ball park is right, but we could see small changes based on yields and thermal testing of final units.

Sure.

But if it's 9.2 and 12+ at THAT time, the ps5 isn't going to magically boost up to 12. Probably not even 11.

MrBob · Dec 30, 2019

Yeah it's fairly obvious Ms push on PC is to sell the Xbox brand in many territories that just doesn't care about Xbox and which are also places where PC is abundant. People aren't just going to start magically buying Xbox hardware in areas where it isn't popular.

Evodelu · Dec 30, 2019

Said Oberon chips lacks RT which is confirmed to be IN the PS5 GPU. Probably an old chip undergoing regression tests for academic purposes.

Klee, Reiner, Schreier etc. all saying PS5 is slightly ahead. I'll stick with that.

BrucCLea13k87 · Dec 30, 2019

jesu said:
Do you mean this post, or this there another one I've missed?

Because that isn't confirming anything.

It does. It alludes to the github leak is out of date. It is accurate, but not timely. We've got people from Digital Foundry in the other thread essentially confirming this.

Isayas · Dec 30, 2019

tusharngf said:
if the rumors are true. No PS5 for me.

I won't say no PS5 but I will grab the mid-gen refresh instead.

gattotimo · Dec 30, 2019

Only specs I'll be interested in are for the lower tier of consoles. Upper tiers improve image quality and resolution, but game logic, IA and assets quality will have to conform to what the lesser specs machines will be able to run.

Herb Alpert · Dec 30, 2019

Instro said:
Imagine console warring over this.

Console war before a new generation launch is the best console war :)

Tetrinski · Dec 30, 2019

Anyone who thought Sony would aim to match the most powerful sku of the two with a single console was lying to themselves, it makes no sense. Sony will be in the middle in power, probably in price as well. It's sad to see so many people still doing it in this thread, they'll clench to anything for hope.

plagiarize · Dec 30, 2019

VinFTW said:
Sure.

But if it's 9.2 and 12+ at THAT time, the ps5 isn't going to magically boost up to 12. Probably not even 11.

Oh for sure. I just wanted to underline that these things are somewhat fluid. I'm confident Series X is launching at a higher price because it's got more powerful innards.

VinFTW · Dec 30, 2019

Evodelu said:
Said Oberon chips lacks RT which is confirmed to be IN the PS5 GPU. Probably an old chip undergoing regression tests for academic purposes.

Klee, Reiner, Schreier etc. all saying PS5 is slightly ahead. I'll stick with that.

That's a lot of twisting.

Not only did Schreier never, not once, say that, Klee and reiners info has never been backed by raw, confirmed numbers from AMD

Khrol · Dec 30, 2019

While it remains to be seen just how 'premium' the Xbox Series X is, I'm very glad we're getting a premium console at launch. I'm always willing to pay more for better performance. This is a smart strategy.

BrucCLea13k87 · Dec 30, 2019

HELLO EVERYONE WE ALREADY CONFIRMED THAT THIS NUMBER IS MOST LIKELY OUT OF DATE IN THE NEXT-GEN THREAD. MATT SEEMINGLY CONFIRMED IT.

DSN2K · Dec 30, 2019

let hope MS have the right Projects in the works to take advantage of this extra power.

nelsonroyale · Dec 30, 2019

SpokkX said:
I find it weird people think ps5 will be more powerful that xbx?

sony has never had a more powerful console than ms in the high end market

Org xb > ps2
360 = ps3
Xb1X > ps4pro (first time a high end version is out)

I mean Xbox released later than PS2, 360 and PS3 released the same time and where overall a fair wash with different strengths and weaknesses. PS4>Xbone. Xbone X released a year after PS4 pro and a $100 more expensive. I mean it is a tiny sample, but it is pretty much a wash, since most of the time MS were releasing later.

The only reason MS there might be a differential if they release on time is because MS may do a two SKU model while Sony do one. If they launch at different prices that will account for the differences in power...

gundamkyoukai · Dec 30, 2019

VinFTW said:
That's a lot of twisting.

Not only did Schreier never, not once, say that, Klee and reiners info has never been backed by raw, confirmed numbers from AMD

These numbers don't confirm anything either when it come to final PS5 specs .
You even had matt saying that .

Deleted member 13645 · Dec 30, 2019

DSN2K said:
let hope MS have the right Projects in the works to take advantage of this extra power.

Racing games have always been used by publishers to really show off new console power, so at the very least we should get some pretty incredible looking Forza games. And if Hellblade 1 was anything to go by, Hellblade 2 should be a looker as well especially when considering the larger budget they'll now be working with.

Oh no · Dec 30, 2019

If true 9.2tf is still plenty. The cpu alone will ensure games look and run much better than the One X can manage despite how close they might look in tf.

If they both end up being closer to 12 then even better though! Exciting times ahead either way.

Evodelu · Dec 30, 2019

VinFTW said:
That's a lot of twisting.

Not only did Schreier never, not once, say that, Klee and reiners info has never been backed by raw, confirmed numbers from AMD

What we have here is an old dumb of github data that has been datamined for info. It's devoid of context of any kind.

What has been confirmed?: That the PS5 has RT IN the GPU. This Oberon chip does not. Whatever this, it's not 2020 PS5.

litebrite · Dec 30, 2019

nelsonroyale said:
I mean Xbox released later than PS2, 360 and PS3 released the same time and where overall a fair wash with different strengths and weaknesses. PS4>Xbone. Xbone X released a year after PS4 pro and a $100 more expensive. I mean it is a tiny sample, but it is pretty much a wash, since most of the time MS were releasing later.

The only reason MS there might be a differential if they release on time is because MS may do a two SKU model while Sony do one. If they launch at different prices that will account for the differences in power...

360 released a year earlier than PS3.

TheOne · Dec 30, 2019

GemmolSwitchPS4 said:
9.2 nowhere close to 12

i Don't have a Xbox one X but even I can see the difference easily between the pro and the x
By the way my friend had an X that's how I see the difference so I know for sure there will be another big difference if the ps5 at 9 teraflops

theres No way to down talk the difference To make it seem it's okay

i Plan to still wait it out and see which is stronger even tho we all know it will be Xbox just to see if sony can do anything to keep me for another generation out of respect for them but if not I plan to go with the strongest

I'm no expert, but I believe what I just demonstrated makes sense. The gap between the PS5 and XSX specs (leaked) is closer than it is between the PS4Pro and The One X. 6tflops is 42.857% more power than 4.2tflops while 12tflops is 30.434% more power than 9.2tflops.

Power is always great to have. I have a dedicated desktop with a R9 3900X and a 1080Ti which I plan to change for a next gen graphics card from either Nvidia or AMD. This won't stop me from purchasing a PS5 for the exclusive and to an extent, the Xbox Series X assuming there are console exclusives on it too.

Chill people, chill.

blastprocessor · Dec 30, 2019

Wonder if
PS5=9.2tf $399
PS5 pro=12+tf $499

Khrol · Dec 30, 2019

BrucCLea13k87 said:
The next gen thread has been warring about this all weekend. Our own insider and moderator Matt says the 9.2TF number from the leak is accurate, but most likely from older specs. PS5 TF number has probably been bumped up. PS5 and XBX are close to each other. Byeeee

BrucCLea13k87 said:
Oh lord the DF thread about the supposed leak is a mess. So many uniformed people. Someone from here please jump over and help. It's like the last 3 days here, LOL.

BrucCLea13k87 said:
Please look into the other thread. It's been explicitly stated there. The leak shows that a 9.2TF chip has been tested. They most likely have a stronger chip that is more current. Look into the other thread and search for Matt's comments. He's already debunked the 9.2TF rumor. He did it earlier today.

BrucCLea13k87 said:
Everyone should take a gander into this THREAD for a good laugh.

BrucCLea13k87 said:
No I'm talking about the posts in the thread, not the video itself. It's like a time capsule of our thread from three days ago.

BrucCLea13k87 said:
I'm not a console war guy, it's obnoxious. I think it's kind of amusing that it's essentially a mirror of this thread from the last 3 days and they may or may not reach our conclusion.

BrucCLea13k87 said:
It does. It alludes to the github leak is out of date. It is accurate, but not timely. We've got people from Digital Foundry in the other thread essentially confirming this.

BrucCLea13k87 said:
HELLO EVERYONE WE ALREADY CONFIRMED THAT THIS NUMBER IS MOST LIKELY OUT OF DATE IN THE NEXT-GEN THREAD. MATT SEEMINGLY CONFIRMED IT.

You ok?

VectorPrime · Dec 30, 2019

BrucCLea13k87 said:
HELLO EVERYONE WE ALREADY CONFIRMED THAT THIS NUMBER IS MOST LIKELY OUT OF DATE IN THE NEXT-GEN THREAD. MATT SEEMINGLY CONFIRMED IT.

this thread will still go on for another 15 pages

Hippopuncher12 · Dec 30, 2019

nelsonroyale said:
I mean Xbox released later than PS2, 360 and PS3 released the same time and where overall a fair wash with different strengths and weaknesses. PS4>Xbone. Xbone X released a year after PS4 pro and a $100 more expensive. I mean it is a tiny sample, but it is pretty much a wash, since most of the time MS were releasing later.

The only reason MS there might be a differential if they release on time is because MS may do a two SKU model while Sony do one. If they launch at different prices that will account for the differences in power...

Didn't 360 release like a year before the PS3?

SpokkX · Dec 30, 2019

Tetrinski said:
Anyone who thought Sony would aim to match the most powerful sku of the two with a single console was lying to themselves, it makes no sense. Sony will be in the middle in power, probably in price as well. It's sad to see so many people still doing it in this thread, they'll clench to anything for hope.

This is a good summary

anyone who thinks that sonys STANDARD ps5 model will match microsofts high end/pro model is just plain delusional

unless sony releases two models (pro and standard)

Fastidioso · Dec 30, 2019

kikiribu said:
Aren't these leaks unconfirmed? What's the point of DF doing this?

Lack of seriety.

PlanetSmasher · Dec 30, 2019

Hippopuncher12 said:
Didn't 360 release like a year before the PS3?

It did.

bsigg · Dec 30, 2019

blastprocessor said:
Wonder if
PS5=9.2tf $399
PS5 pro=12+tf $499

I wouldn't expect Sony to launch 2 consoles at the same time.

Digital Foundry: PlayStation 5/ Xbox Series X New GPU Spec Leak Analysis: 9.2TF vs 12TF?

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