WHAT?
edit - Yup, Danny mentions Amsterdam and HZD in his pateron blog updates. Sweet.
DigitalFoundry: Horizon: The Frozen Wilds PS4 Pro - Tech Breakdown and Engine Analysis
- Thread starter PLASTICA-MAN
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edit - Yup, Danny mentions Amsterdam and HZD in his pateron blog updates. Sweet.
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Yeah. I wished this DLC environments were more varied than just a snowy setting.
PSVR games get object-based audio [via PSVR splitter box processing]. Hopefully that will change when next generation arrives.
User was warned for: Drive by post trying to silence the enjoyment of others while adding no value to the conversation.
Welcome back GAF!
Instead of you guys making blanket statements about graphics in exclusive PS4 titles, it would be very beneficial and appreciative if you could justify said comments.
In any case, H:ZD is like one of the least impressive games graphically of any of the games that came out this.
Guess next gen native 4k 60gps remaster we might get atmos support.... But atmos might come to ps4 games if zoe2 vr jp site is correct.
I was going to say lol.
He asks for others to justify their general statements then immediately throws out a generalization with nothing backing it up.
People can talk about which game looks the greatest to them. No need to be rude. You were like that back on gaf. Lighten up a little.
I have several rebutals but I'd like to find out why PS4 fans feel this with every single exclusive that comes out? Is it to feel good about your purchase? We already know we can't start subjective comments because they are opinions. But I'm exhausted from the hyperbole. I know icecold, and a few other PS4 fans from GAF and it's these comments that bring me out of the shadows.
I would start on the condition that this doesn't become some screenshot thread with a bunch of pictures taken in photomode to prove points.
No rudeness in what I said. And you are right, people can talk about their greatest looking game. But leaving it subjective doesn't really prove anything. How can we all come to an intelligent discussion without the bias and look at it objectively?
I don't know, I thought it was kinda rude. Also the whole "why do PS4 fans do this and that" thing. Actually, you're being kinda rude in this thread all around.
So when Digital Foundry decides to title their article that this thread is based on "Horizon: The Frozen Wilds is an unmissable tech showcase" and subtitle it "One of the most impressive 4K HDR experiences you can play." it's because they are just PS4 fanboys?
You have still not justified why Horizon, the best looking open world game ever, is to you one of the least impressive games graphically this year.
I think you are exhausted of your own hyperbole, not ours.
Horizon is a great game, but every time I see it used in a graphical showcase, I get more excited about Death Stranding. It's gonna have to get by on art direction. Sony will no longer have the console performance crown when it releases, but DF getting to show off dev tools makes me confident the engine will be up to the task.
dark souls 2 on a 1440p ips monitor would like to have a word with you. i'm in nj let me know where you can fight me.
OK. Since I was warned about drive by posting.. I'll remedy that here.
Objectively playing HZD with my own PS4 Pro, here are the reasons why I feel it was a disappointment:
1) The lighting is extremely unrealistic and non-energy conserving. They use light probes everywhere to simulate bounced-light and don't compensate for energy falloff based on distance. This makes objects appear to have a "glow" effect (i.e. Witcher 3).
2) The textures are very inconsistent. While the main characters, dinos, and some vendor NPCs have good texture detail, the environments overall don't have anywhere near as good texture detail.
3) FX are implemented horribly especially the water and fire. The water has some really crude splash effects and the campfires have really low res animated textures.
4) Terrain detail is too simple. I would have loved to see several layers of dirt and composition for the rocks and props. But they hardly used any layers for complexity.
5) Skin shader for Aloy is a typical lambertian model and doesn't scatter light like other games (i.e. Evil Within 2 for example).
6) Hair is still a problem (but that's an issue in all games).
7) Fake light sources with no shadow casters.
8) Foliage looks great! And I love the trick they used, but it's overdone. They shouldn't self shadow that much to where the roots are always black.
9) No animated rain textures on the characters
10) Filtering method for textures is still in the low 4x anisotropic range making texture detail fade away too fast.
11) The LOD system is pretty good but it's not set far enough so you get really simple props and environments until you get close enough.
All in all, this was a disappointment compared to some of the other games released this year.
Objectively playing HZD with my own PS4 Pro, here are the reasons why I feel it was a disappointment:
1) The lighting is extremely unrealistic and non-energy conserving. They use light probes everywhere to simulate bounced-light and don't compensate for energy falloff based on distance. This makes objects appear to have a "glow" effect (i.e. Witcher 3).
2) The textures are very inconsistent. While the main characters, dinos, and some vendor NPCs have good texture detail, the environments overall don't have anywhere near as good texture detail.
3) FX are implemented horribly especially the water and fire. The water has some really crude splash effects and the campfires have really low res animated textures.
4) Terrain detail is too simple. I would have loved to see several layers of dirt and composition for the rocks and props. But they hardly used any layers for complexity.
5) Skin shader for Aloy is a typical lambertian model and doesn't scatter light like other games (i.e. Evil Within 2 for example).
6) Hair is still a problem (but that's an issue in all games).
7) Fake light sources with no shadow casters.
8) Foliage looks great! And I love the trick they used, but it's overdone. They shouldn't self shadow that much to where the roots are always black.
9) No animated rain textures on the characters
10) Filtering method for textures is still in the low 4x anisotropic range making texture detail fade away too fast.
11) The LOD system is pretty good but it's not set far enough so you get really simple props and environments until you get close enough.
All in all, this was a disappointment compared to some of the other games released this year.
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John. Can you please confirm this? At around 11:20 in your video, you highlighted the profiler showing the triangles used in the scene. The scene has Aloy only and vegetation. I bet the other numbers are for the environments. But 517 triangales there seem to be allocated to Aloy right? I know her hair only, is 100k polygons. It is not impossible since the thunderjaw is 550k polygons and we see many of them sometimes plus more robots. If it is the case then Aloy is the character with most polygons in gaming history, and all this in an open-world game. For comparison, Aki Ross in Final Fantasy movie was 400k polygons and maxed at 500k if she wears extra items or stuff.
John wanna say thank you to you, Rich, Dave and crew for everything you guys do once again. Great work
Horizon is one of those games that makes me appreciate the difference between current gen and last gen. Horizon basically takes the basic framework of something like RDR and takes it to the next level
Horizon is one of those games that makes me appreciate the difference between current gen and last gen. Horizon basically takes the basic framework of something like RDR and takes it to the next level
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If all open-world games end up like Horizon or RDR, then we won't fall in the open-wolrd fatigue. I hope Death Stranding will be very cleverly designed besides being a masterpiece technically.
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Look at all the other games using this engine, Until Dawn, and the upcoming Bravo team and The Inpatient look sublime on VR. I won't be surprised if Guerilla is already developing a sequel or a new IP using an updated version of this engine.
The DLC looks fantastic and continues to animate really well. I love the improvements over the base game as well, it continues to be one of the best looking games out right now.
It's funny that if one were to agree with all that it would still be the best looking game of the year, if not generation. I don't agree with most of it though.
A lot of what you say is pure nitpicks and does not in any way back up your statement of being a "major disappointment." Some of it is trade offs for an open world game. You speak like you know how graphics tech works but I get the impression you don't stop to think that, to pull off something like this in an open world, you gotta have tradeoffs.
"Least impressive" is easily the most hyperbolic thing I've read all year.
Agree, only Ubisofts reconstruction technique is able to come close to it. Most people even missed it in watch dogs 2 and ACO.
No one can argue subjective opinions. I could just as much say Cuphead is the best looking game. There basically is no discussion then.
A lot of what I say is a big factor in pushing the graphics tech higher. Having shadow-casting lights is VERY important. It destroys the realism and the materials of the scene.
I know about it because I do it for a living. I understand tradeoffs and the limited hardware we have to deal with. But other games, while not addressing all of my concerns, do address some of them.
AC:Origins, for example, has a much more realistic lighting profile and they seem to control energy distribution relatively better (albeit not perfect) causing the materials in the scene to "appear" like they have different properties. Not so in HZD where all the snow, rocks, and trees seem to be made of the same material.
This looks pretty dumb tbh. The snow tech is great when walking around in it though.Breathtaking! Simply breathtaking!! GOTY!!!
Agreed.
Most people will not be examining skin shaders or animated fire textures while they are playing the game. Any game can be picked apart if you examine it closely enough. Horizon looks absolutely gorgeous in motion despite any concessions made for an open world.
Although you say you work in VFX/ Graphics... I think you need to have your eyes examined or something's wrong with your Pro.
I was playing the game a few hours ago, on a base PS4, and this is blatantly false.
I have a question in regards to the Horizon ZD on the Pro. Has anyone noticed the depth of field looks far worse on the Pro than the base system? Maybe it's the implementation of the effect on Pro versions (because I just upgraded from vanilla PS4 and noticed this exact issue with COD WW2 on the PSPro too) but DoF basically looks smudged and almost as if it's had a massive chromatic aberation pass now. I didn't see this previously on the base system but now Horizon and WW2 both seem to suffer far worse quality depth of field.
Also I watched this earlier today and it was brilliant. I really enjoy Johns analysis and DF Retro work.
Also I watched this earlier today and it was brilliant. I really enjoy Johns analysis and DF Retro work.
Which is something that VFX seems to be ignoring. Art direction is just as important as the technical aspects when it comes to visuals. I'd argue that it's far more important.
Best visuals this gen. LL pushed it as did aspects of GT. Not delved into FW as still playing Origins.
Shield sledge. Yes, make it happen. That happened in that film Willow right?
1) They said the lighting is not photorealistic and it is the goal after they said than Kojima production is better with light and they correct some bug into the lighting engine(need to be integrated into the engine for the next game) and if you want photorealistic light with the Decima wait Death Stranding.
2) for FX all the particle and cloud effect are really good. They have the best snow ever done in a realtime game in the Frozen Wilds.
3) Skin shading is too complex to be pbr based, it is a hack for every game this generation same thing in other game with better skin shading like TLOU 2 for example...
7) the day you will see a game with shadow caster for all light on console not with shadows maps.
10) everything is a compromise on consoles
I don't see any open world game doing everything better than Horizon for the moment. Some have better for water or other details or better draw distance like AC origins but the character model are better in Horizon and if the draw distance is better in AC origins the assets are not as good as on Horizon...
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I didn't want to respond to your nitpick list most of which saw inaccurate, but this is just factually wrong. And why do you hesitate to mention OW games that look better?
Apparently you also seem to be unfamiliar with the concept of "art-style" since you expect every game to try to look photorealistic.
