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Jan 4, 2018
8,663
Dirt 5's Player Numbers Have Been 'Shockingly Huge' On Xbox Game Pass, Says Dev

Codemasters' Dirt 5 is one of many highly-anticipated Xbox Game Pass titles that have entered the service already so far this year, and according to the game's director, its inclusion has been a massive success for the game.
Speaking as part of the GameOnDaily podcast, technical director David Springate explained that the game saw "shockingly huge" player numbers as a result, describing the Game Pass decision as "absolutely fantastic":
"It's been absolutely fantastic. Just fantastic. In terms of player counts, I'm not going to give a number because I'm sure I'll get it wrong, but it was shockingly huge. It was crazy. We were really pleased to see that level of engagement, it was really great to see how that had such a positive effect on the game and the way it's talked about.

That continues as well, in that [Dirt 5 on] Game Pass obviously had an initial massive push, but it's sustained. Obviously it's not the same on the second week, but it's still going and we're still seeing really great numbers, so we're super pleased."
 

maabus1999

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,990
News like this is going to give Microsoft has a lot of pricing power for getting games on Game Pass going into the future. For developers, it is more than just revenue but also a great avenue for marketing.
 

cw_sasuke

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,419
From what i remember the game was a flop, so everything somewhat decent on GP is probably a massive result for the game. Sub services are a good safety net for underperformers.

But they probably need to do better if they want EA to open up pockets for new titles in the series.
 
Oct 25, 2017
11,039
Huge!

But I won't tell you the number because I could be wrong about it, but its huge! The number I'm not sure about is huge!

Ummm, what?
 

gremlinz1982

Member
Aug 11, 2018
5,331
From what i remember the game was a flop, so everything somewhat decent on GP is probably a massive result for the game. Sub services are a good safety net for underperformers.

But they probably need to do better if they want EA to open up pockets for new titles in the series.
Subscription services are a good safety net for all types of games, and this is the reason you see even blockbuster games making their way into the service.
 

DarthWalden

Prophet of Truth
The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
6,030
Gamepass is an absolute stroke of genius for these kind of under the radar mid-tier AAA games.

Putting your game into gamepass leads to lots of people playing your game which leads to increased chatter about your game which tends to lead to an increase in actual sales outside of gamepass.

I think the thing developers now have to weigh when deciding if they want to put their game on a subscription service like gamepass...,
is it good to launch right into gamepass and miss out on day one sales or is it better to kind of wait for a few months and see how it does via traditional metrics and then put it in after those numbers have kind of dried up for a post launch boost.,
 
Jul 20, 2020
1,314
At some point a game doing well on gamepass cant keep being news since its the expectation. Gamepass seems to be one of the few things good for its industry on every level. Its good for developers who get a huge audience, good for gamers who play hundreds of games cheap and good for MS who it prints money for.
 
Oct 28, 2017
1,028
I am not sure if the "How Does Gamepass work for devs" has ever been broken down for us. But do Devs get a big lump sum for putting the game on there, or do they get a small sum for each time it is downloaded, or both? Just curious.

I always assumed it was a lump sum up front. So when they have huge numbers on Gamepass, it doesn't get them more money, but opens the door for more microtransactions in the future. Does this sound right? Or totally wrong? Or do we even know lol?
 

VivekTO

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
433
What is the actual number. It was , if I am correct under 5k on steam, so if its 20K on Gamepass , I don't think it says much!
But good for the Devs if they think its doing great on gamepass.
 

ghostcrew

The Shrouded Ghost
Administrator
Oct 27, 2017
30,375
Huge!

But I won't tell you the number because I could be wrong about it, but its huge! The number I'm not sure about is huge!

Ummm, what?

In a world where any throwaway thing you say on a podcast or in an interview turns into an article (see this very subject) and is repeated forever… it's probably sensible to not give a specific number if you're not immediately sure that it's accurate isn't it? He's live on a Zoom call during a podcast. Forgive him if he doesn't have every statistic from his game at hand.

The fact this article and this Era thread exist prove that he was right not to just make up a figure if he wasn't sure because that would've been the headline. Seems sensible.

In terms of player counts, I'm not going to give a number because I'm sure I'll get it wrong, but it was shockingly huge. It was crazy.
 

Witness

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,830
Hartford, CT
Good to hear, I enjoy the hell out of it. Situations like this give MS a lot of bargaining power to help lift up games that might might not have sold well upfront or for games that pubs are worried about finding an audience prior to release. I mean really, Dirt 5 is a perfect game pass game for a lot of reasons.
 

2Blackcats

Member
Oct 26, 2017
16,086
I am not sure if the "How Does Gamepass work for devs" has ever been broken down for us. But do Devs get a big lump sum for putting the game on there, or do they get a small sum for each time it is downloaded, or both? Just curious.

I always assumed it was a lump sum up front. So when they have huge numbers on Gamepass, it doesn't get them more money, but opens the door for more microtransactions in the future. Does this sound right? Or totally wrong? Or do we even know lol?

I think I remember reading that they have a wide variety of deals to suit different game types and devs
 

vixolus

Prophet of Truth
Member
Sep 22, 2020
54,725
I am not sure if the "How Does Gamepass work for devs" has ever been broken down for us. But do Devs get a big lump sum for putting the game on there, or do they get a small sum for each time it is downloaded, or both? Just curious.

I always assumed it was a lump sum up front. So when they have huge numbers on Gamepass, it doesn't get them more money, but opens the door for more microtransactions in the future. Does this sound right? Or totally wrong? Or do we even know lol?
Each case is unique and negotiated between dev/publisher and Microsoft. I imagine most cases are a lump sum + smaller download rate. It doesn't matter much really, as long as both parties come to a satisfactory agreement.
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,869
I bought it on sale the week before they announced it was coming to gamepass.

It's been a really fun and beautiful time on Series X. I don't regret buying it outright. The game really shines graphically in some of the later environments and weather conditions.

Just an all round solid and fun racing game. Fast, next gen load times might be exactly what track based racing games have needed. In, race, back to menu, load a new race in a totally different environment, race, back to menu... etc...
 

nekkid

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
21,823
News like this is going to give Microsoft has a lot of pricing power for getting games on Game Pass going into the future. For developers, it is more than just revenue but also a great avenue for marketing.
I was gonna say, the eventual shift will be from MS paying for games to be on Game Pass to publishers requesting their game to be on Game Pass. Not for all of them, obviously, but it will make it far cheaper for MS.
 

Reckheim

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,390
I'd be surprised if it didn't do well on gamepass being a crossgen game; that had a form of raytracing. People wanted a show piece and this was kind of it.
 

HebrewHammer

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,524
Chicago
Dirt 5 is a perfect GamePass title I'd imagine.

The AAA quality and pedigree of the franchise among core fans mixed with a ton of curiosity outside of said circles is a winning formula.
 

ClamBuster

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,102
Ipswich, England
I am not sure if the "How Does Gamepass work for devs" has ever been broken down for us. But do Devs get a big lump sum for putting the game on there, or do they get a small sum for each time it is downloaded, or both? Just curious.

I always assumed it was a lump sum up front. So when they have huge numbers on Gamepass, it doesn't get them more money, but opens the door for more microtransactions in the future. Does this sound right? Or totally wrong? Or do we even know lol?

phil did elaborate on this last year... he admitted it's quite random from game to game, and that there's no set method

some like a chunk upfront, some like reward per numbers, and some just want their games development funded
 

Pryme

Member
Aug 23, 2018
8,164
What is the actual number. It was , if I am correct under 5k on steam, so if its 20K on Gamepass , I don't think it says much!

Lmao. You're basically using concurrent player counts on Steam for a $60 game to extrapolate total numbers of players on a service with 20+ million users?

But good for the Devs if they think its doing great on gamepass.

I think devs are in the best position to KNOW if a game's player counts are sharply increasing, not 'think'.
 

Prine

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
15,724
Huge!

But I won't tell you the number because I could be wrong about it, but its huge! The number I'm not sure about is huge!

Ummm, what?
He's not sure about the number because it's most likely to have been surpassed since he last looked, which is the tone in which he responded with when asked in the video. We know games like Sea of Thieves, Forza Horizon 4, Outriders and even Grounded are in the millions, so it's reasonable to assume the numbers are big.
 

gremlinz1982

Member
Aug 11, 2018
5,331
Blockbusters usually dont need this safety net and are too expensive for this kind of service - but there are obv. exceptions from time to time.
What is this? All publishers want money and if they can get it off Game Pass after the initial sales run, then where is the harm? This is something that happens frequently.

We are also seeing a few huge games launching day and date, so clearly the people that are making these games see it as being a great deal. I mean, since this service came online, there has been talk of how it is not sustainable, how it works for AA games and not AAA games, how everything on it will be GAAS. Is any of this true?

New one is that it is offering a lifeline to some games. Hint, everyone is in it for the money.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,119
I love all the downplaying of this good news. Dirt 5 is the best arcade racer I have played since the SEGA classics. Just download it and enjoy it.
 

Okii

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,189
Huge!

But I won't tell you the number because I could be wrong about it, but its huge! The number I'm not sure about is huge!

Ummm, what?
Here, you dropped this king. 👐
aluminium-foil-hat-isolated-on-white-background-symbol-for-conspiracy-picture-id1257284419
 

Reddaye

Member
Mar 24, 2018
2,909
New Brunswick, Canada
Developers come out and praise how their game is doing on Game Pass, and yet people still come crawling out of the wood work trying to twist and downplay what's being said. It never fails lol.

Glad Dirt 5 has gotten some life on Game Pass. I really need to download it after being turned off by the initial reviews at launch.
 
Oct 28, 2017
1,028
I think I remember reading that they have a wide variety of deals to suit different game types and devs
Each case is unique and negotiated between dev/publisher and Microsoft. I imagine most cases are a lump sum + smaller download rate. It doesn't matter much really, as long as both parties come to a satisfactory agreement.



Interesting, thanks! It would suck if you take a lump sum, your game blows up on GamePass with big numbers, but you are just stuck taking that lump sum and cannot capitlize on the hype/big numbers. I guess that is why it is different with everyone. That is a gamble some devs may be willing to take for more guaranteed money!
 
Oct 25, 2017
8,447
lmao absolutely every "the game is doing great here, we are happy!' is met with 'IS IT REALLY THOUGH" in this forum

remember seeing something similar with Hitman 3 here too (not related to game pass, in this case)
 

cw_sasuke

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,419
Huge!

But I won't tell you the number because I could be wrong about it, but its huge! The number I'm not sure about is huge!

Ummm, what?
Read this in Trumps voice lol.
What is this? All publishers want money and if they can get it off Game Pass after the initial sales run, then where is the harm? This is something that happens frequently.

We are also seeing a few huge games launching day and date, so clearly the people that are making these games see it as being a great deal. I mean, since this service came online, there has been talk of how it is not sustainable, how it works for AA games and not AAA games, how everything on it will be GAAS. Is any of this true?

New one is that it is offering a lifeline to some games. Hint, everyone is in it for the money.
As said they are gonna be exceptions but MS cant justify to pay enough to get every Blockbuster on GamePass. A game that is guaranteed to sell millions on Xbox in its initial run is gonna be difficult to justify even for MS - there might be exception like BFV later this year but its not the norm.
 

Stacey

Banned
Feb 8, 2020
4,610
Game "not worth 60 bucks" worth downloading for "free" SHOCKER!

Congrats to EA I guess.
 

thediamondage

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,295
If I paid $60 for it I woulda been pretty negative on the game probably but as something I run once or twice a week on gamepass I love it.

Overall for gaming there is an increasing "Netflix" problem, and by that I mean Netflix outputs a TON of stuff every month but 99% of it is aggressively mediocre. I pay my sub and watch stuff, but I find myself rarely finding a real gem. For now I really enjoy this constant stream of new stuff to try on GamePass, but do wonder if it'll get devs to develop games specifically for gamepass, knowing they only need to invest so much and not work too hard on polish/etc but just enough to turn a profit on what Microsoft will pay. I know its a silly "concern" for now, but as Netflix shows it does tend to warp slightly the way things get made.
 
Jun 15, 2020
7,125
I am not sure if the "How Does Gamepass work for devs" has ever been broken down for us. But do Devs get a big lump sum for putting the game on there, or do they get a small sum for each time it is downloaded, or both? Just curious.

I always assumed it was a lump sum up front. So when they have huge numbers on Gamepass, it doesn't get them more money, but opens the door for more microtransactions in the future. Does this sound right? Or totally wrong? Or do we even know lol?
MrMattyPlays just did a great interview with one of the publishers behind Descenders about this. Unfortunately, it's behind a Patreon paywall for now, but I think it'll be on YouTube soon.

Anyway, it's a case-by-case basis, but it sounds like one lump sum is the common deal.
 

Golding

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,807
congrats - why is it so hard to believe that the game is doing well with gamepass? cmon folks
 

gremlinz1982

Member
Aug 11, 2018
5,331
Read this in Trumps voice lol.

As said they are gonna be exceptions but MS cant justify to pay enough to get every Blockbuster on GamePass. A game that is guaranteed to sell millions on Xbox in its initial run is gonna be difficult to justify even for MS - there might be exception like BFV later this year but its not the norm.
No single platform holder i big enough to pay for every blockbuster.
 

ThisIsBlitz21

Member
Oct 22, 2018
4,662
Dirt 5 is really really good. Im happy for its success on Gamepass.

Its a simple, arcady track based racer, that feels pulled right of the mid 2000's, and I mean that in a good way, its what we were missing in the genre.
 

cw_sasuke

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,419
No single platform holder i big enough to pay for every blockbuster.
DId i say otherwise ? If MS in there current position cant justify paying off every Blockbuster for GP the other plattform holder def. cant do it. Especially once you factor in the potential higher software sales on PS/NSW ......Square Enix or Capcom for example would probably ask these platform holders for quite a bit more than they ask from MS right now, to off set potential Week 1sales.
 

Najaf

Member
Oct 26, 2017
955
Houston, TX
I tried it, but honestly the visuals just took me out of the experience (on the seriesX). I'm not even trying to hold it up to FH4 standards, but in my mind it is just a muddy mess. I know I'm likely misremembering, but I feel like even back to dirt 3, things were looking better. Definitely prefer the visuals in the Dirt Rally series for sure.

Glad it is seeing success, but everything about my time with it screamed rushed and unpolished.
 

sangreal

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,890
He actually says a lot more about game pass. Rough transcript follows. I thought it was telling that his first response was that you can see they are still releasing content for the game. I only had time to listen to this section, but from the chapters on youtube looks like there is probably a lot of interesting info in this interview (there are a few more sections on game pass too). Could barely understand a word from the interviewers, sorry

What's the impact been for Dirt 5 and Gamepass?

It's been absolutely fantastic. Just fantastic.

Yeah?

Yeah, so, you might have noticed we've been giving regular content drops for Dirt 5. Just making sure we add new campaigns and cars and playground objects, features. And we've taken on player feedback and trying to address the different things that people might want changed or added. But in terms of player counts, I'm not going to give a number because I'm sure I'll get it wrong but it was shockingly huge. So, previously we were looking at, you know, player graphs, you know the daily, and were like okay cool this is going really well and then suddenly game pass (gestures up) and it was crazy. So we were really pleased to see that level of engagement. It was really great to see how that had such a positive effect on the game and the way it's talked about. That continues, as well. In that, Game Pass had obviously an initial massive push but it's sustained. I expect it to... obviously it's not the same on the second week, but it's still going and obviously we are still seeing really great numbers so we are really pleased with game pass. It's just a brilliant thing for the game

Is it a big deal for a developer to get a game on game pass? Is there some level of prestige with that?

I think that's a great question. So, uh, is there a prestige to it? Yeah, I think so in that it's nice to be able to talk about it with your friends and your friends can all just go pick it up if they're game pass subscribers and that sort of stuff.

working on a title like that (???) of course, we're human beings, we want our friends to notice it and check it out, so... But there is a level of fear as a technical director, because let's say, I'll pick a random number, in fact I'll pick a small number. Let's say you have 5000 players because you got on game pass. It was much more than that, but let's say that you add 5000 players and for you that's a big deal because servers are really flakey, so you bring the game out on game pass and now the whole thing falls over because suddenly now you have a huge influx, for you, of players and that's a scary thing. So going on to game pass, firstly, the teams at Microsoft were super helpful at just helping us out with what we should expect, what kind of things we should anticipate, how we communicate that across our teams, who to reach out to if there is a problem. We actually did have a problem, and it wasn't anything to do with any of the server tech or anything like that. Just an optimization issue on one of the servers and so we had to take 2 hours of downtime. I was very pleased with this, this was (???) for me. So I was talking to one of our server engineers and he was very unhappy that we had downtime -- I said we had 2 hours of downtime in the life of the product so far! I'm super super happy with it. But yeah, Game Pass isn't a thing you can just lob your title into and just say okay sure it'll be fine. You do have to think about it and plan. Make sure that the content is going to be available. If you've got new content drop coming, you want to have that to come around the same time so that players can see that and add to all the buzz. So yeah, it's definitely an interesting proposition to think about what's the impact to your title. It might be a good time to publish some of that, to kind of publicize the more social elements of your title when you've got more players coming in at that point. It's the kind of thing you think about for, I don't know...

For the length of the time (???)

Oh, I mean a year in advance. Like, I've seen some people say so you just signed a deal with Microsoft and put it on. Well, no, that's not how these things work. You don't sign a deal and get it on game pass a week later or something. These things take time, they're planned, they're coordinated. So you think about how that fits into your service of the game going forward. Are you at a good point in the service to introduce that many players? It's carefully planned.

(???) Is this uncharted territory. Is this breaking new ground? (???) these subscription services are a bit, are they going to eat into our... or was this a no-brainer to you?

Well, for me, the finances of it just have nothing to do with it which is great. You know, I get asked to be involved in those kind of deals just to validate from a technical perspective but in terms of does it make financial sense or what was the deal? all that kind of stuff -- I have no information on, sorry

As individual developers does being on game pass have a material difference on your bonus scheme or anything like that?

At Codemasters it doesn't work that way, no. I'm very happy with how it panned out
 
Last edited:

Quellyford

Member
May 16, 2020
4,031
Games that show up on Game Pass consistently having very positive comments from developers, publishers, and gamers alike. At this rate, it'll be hard to find a game where its addition to Game Pass is NOT a slamming success. This only bodes well for the future of Game Pass.

Very happy for the devs of Dirt 5 :)
 

gremlinz1982

Member
Aug 11, 2018
5,331
DId i say otherwise ? If MS in there current position cant justify paying off every Blockbuster for GP the other plattform holder def. cant do it. Especially once you factor in the potential higher software sales on PS/NSW ......Square Enix or Capcom for example would probably ask these platform holders for quite a bit more than they ask from MS right now, to off set potential Week 1sales.
No one does it because it does not make financial sense. You will get the odd game that appears there day and date, outside this, platform holders are happy making the 30% cut.
 

Katana_Strikes

Unshakable Resolve
Member
Oct 29, 2017
10,760
It was a very new release and quick to come to GP. So no surprises many will have downloaded it. However, I'd be interested to see how many stick around long because the game is very average.