Deleted member 60295

User requested account closure
Banned
Sep 28, 2019
1,489
You can actually guarantee that ALL the people working on this game are transphobic...Really? So EVERYONE is evil in this company. Their views as a company are certaintly fucked up, but to say that the people working there share these views,.,,

Read my post again I never used the word "ALL" when I first referred to the people working on the game. Perhaps I should have been more clear, but I meant "all the people working on the game who are responsible for how the game is handling gender identity" can go fuck themselves. I'm not saying EVERYONE that's working on Cyberpunk 2077 is transphobic.... but clearly, the ones that have the final say on shit like the gender-locked voices are.
 

Deleted member 2620

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,491
i can't imagine how naive one would have to be to not understand how easily and how often the owning class takes a nebulous idea of "causing conflict" and weaponizes it against employees
 

Luxorek

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,162
Poland
I spent a couple days in a small city of Poland (Wroclaw), and I witnessed a small concentration of people literally protesting against LGBTQI+ rights using pedophilia as their main argument. Like, HOW.

Fuckin' lol. That's the fourth largest city in my country. But I also witnessed these 'lgbt=pedophilia' people in my city, blasting their propaganda from cars they drive around the city. These people are usually associated with this fringe party.
 

Deleted member 13077

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,513
Well, glad I already decided I'm skipping CP2077.

These shitheads are never going to change.
 

Deleted member 31817

Nov 7, 2017
30,876
I can't wait to see a cyberpunk game from this guy

Guessing it's gonna go hard on the cyber and low on the punk
 

Kinsei

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
20,758
Just a friendly reminder that this isn't like Dragon Quest or whatever where you can argue that the views of Sugiyama aren't present in the game or that the game even goes against them, the views of CDPR are baked into Cyberpunk 2077.

I really can't wait for all the glowing reviews with nary a peep about it and all the praise it's going to get in GotY award discussions here as well as a center stage presence at the game awards. /s obviously.
 
Oct 25, 2017
15,110
I spent a couple days in a small city of Poland (Wroclaw), and I witnessed a small concentration of people literally protesting against LGBTQI+ rights using pedophilia as their main argument. Like, HOW.

About a third of the country has declared itself to be a "LGBT-free zone". You've been in the more progressive part of the country.
 

FullNelson

Member
Jan 28, 2019
1,319
Fuckin' lol. That's the fourth largest city in my country. But I also witnessed these 'lgbt=pedophilia' people in my city, blasting their propaganda from cars they drive around the city. These people are usually associated with this fringe party.
LMAO didn't mean to be rude, it's just I'm not used to the European city scale. Here in Latin America we have fewer cities, but they are way bigger than Europe's.

But yeah, the pedophilia thing was wild. And it seemed that people were used to it, since nobody was arguing with them. It's wild how the far right is gaining terrain in some parts of Europe.
 
Oct 25, 2017
16,738
Holy fuck that's a shit take.

Like after everything that's been happening in the industry the last few weeks in regards to racism and sexual harassment/assault. THIS is the take they go with.
 

FourSerioux

Member
Nov 1, 2017
118
Tolerance of differing viewpoints is something completely lacking in internet discourse; people generally argue that their viewpoint is the only correct viewpoint, especially as everything (even diversity and human rights) inevitably ends up getting tied into a political side.

I personally didn't read their statement as them having a lack of tolerance, but that they accept that there are different viewpoints on the necessity of tolerance in the workplace. To me it's just a nothing statement really, basically just says that different people think differently but that they accept that different people view things differently. I suppose they may have thought it would simply be a safe PR response, or perhaps it just comes across differently through translation.
 

Lentic

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,838
Just a friendly reminder that this isn't like Dragon Quest or whatever where you can argue that the views of Sugiyama aren't present in the game or that the game even goes against them, the views of CDPR are baked into Cyberpunk 2077.

I really can't wait for all the glowing reviews with nary a peep about it and all the praise it's going to get in GotY award discussions here as well as a center stage presence at the game awards. /s obviously.
It's always a bit jarring to see a thread like this and then many others hyping this game up like no tomorrow. It's been clear where the people at this company stand for a while now.
 

captainmal01

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,341
Gonna check out of Cyberpunk now. Man, they just can't make one fully positive statement about diversity, can they?
 

Deleted member 31817

Nov 7, 2017
30,876
Tolerance of differing viewpoints is something completely lacking in internet discourse; people generally argue that their viewpoint is the only correct viewpoint, especially as everything (even diversity and human rights) inevitably ends up getting tied into a political side.

I personally didn't read their statement as them having a lack of tolerance, but that they accept that there are different viewpoints on the necessity of tolerance in the workplace. To me it's just a nothing statement really, basically just says that different people think differently but that they accept that different people view things differently. I suppose they may have thought it would simply be a safe PR response, or perhaps it just comes across differently through translation.
I mean there are only 2 sides to diversity and the morality of each is pretty black and white.
 

Roliq

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Sep 23, 2018
6,335
The only people that would be conflicted about diversity are alt right assholes who cry about the smallest things
 

SilkySm00th

Member
Oct 31, 2017
4,870
So i would guess that anyone that was still sitting on the fence or arguing that singular voices don't discount all the work the company is doing for this game - at this point their shittery can't really be denied anymore right?

The official threads for Cyberpunk are going to be..... wild.
 

Midgarian

Alt Account
Banned
Apr 16, 2020
2,619
Midgar
Gonna check out of Cyberpunk now. Man, they just can't make one fully positive statement about diversity, can they?
It feels like every time they speak about the issue it's through gritted teeth.

What are they afraid of for just taking a stand with progressives?

And that's the thing. There's nothing for them to be afraid of. They're just showing their true colours.
 

smisk

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,049
That's pretty bad, and sadly it sounds like they're one of the more progressive companies in Poland.
 

Razmos

Unshakeable One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 28, 2017
15,900
So i would guess that anyone that was still sitting on the fence or arguing that singular voices don't discount all the work the company is doing for this game - at this point their shittery can't really be denied anymore right?

The official threads for Cyberpunk are going to be..... wild.
Meh the official thread for the game will just be full of people who don't give a shit about these issues, just like they always ignore these threads.
Unless there are framerate drops, then the thread will be wild.
 

Ashes of Dreams

Fallen Guardian of Unshakable Resolve
Member
May 22, 2020
15,438
He's a CEO of a company, so I wouldn't be surprised if he just wanted people to shut up and work, but... I dunno, I don't see how that's what he's saying at all? Everyone here seems to jump to the conclusion that he's saying people need to tolerate the intolerant, but if you actually read the interview, it seems to me like he's clearly saying that he thinks their products are better because they create an environment where people feel they can be themselves and speak up. Why assume he's talking about bigots with that? Given the context of the question, I feel it's clear he's talking about LGBT+ people.

We stand for tolerance. We combat all forms of racism, homophobia and xenophobia, as we believe tolerance is the foundation of creativity and innovation.
What is more, there is strong correlation between openness to "the other" and its effect on creativity and motivation. In my opinion this results mainly from an increased feeling of security. In an environment where you can simply be yourself it becomes easier to have frank discussions, share ideas and express opinions — and that provides a starting point for many interesting activities.

The status quo is overcome through bold action.
(Speaking about Anti-LGBT reactions in Poland)

The increasing polarization concerns me, but it is not a distinctly Polish phenomenon. Modern European attachment to tolerance grew out of the terrible calamities visited upon us by intolerant totalitarian systems. Unfortunately, we are beginning to forget this lesson.

I will admit there are some minor parts where his wording seems weird, like the "not lead to conflict" bit (maybe something is being muddled in translation here?), but they only seem bad when taken out of the context of the whole interview, and at least to me the message he's trying to get across is that they take diversity seriously in their company and want to make their work environment a place where minorities can speak up and put their influence onto the work.
 

Fiery Phoenix

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,943
It feels like every time they speak about the issue it's through gritted teeth.

What are they afraid of for just taking a stand with progressives?

And that's the thing. There's nothing for them to be afraid of. They're just showing their true colours.
Them taking a stand would cost them. Literally. PR has to pander to everyone to ensure their games continue to sell.

Corporations aren't your friends. They only care about your wallet and if that means they have to lie and pretend they care about certain issues (as it often does), they most certainly will.

P.S. As someone already stated, Poland is a massively conservative nation. I think this fact tends to fly over so many people's heads. CDPR is actually rather tame compared to the rest of that country.
 

Rover_

Member
Jun 2, 2020
5,249
what a tough pill to swallow, CDPR is being very consistent this gen.

consistent trash.
 

Gustaf

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
14,926
He's a CEO of a company, so I wouldn't be surprised if he just wanted people to shut up and work, but... I dunno, I don't see how that's what he's saying at all? Everyone here seems to jump to the conclusion that he's saying people need to tolerate the intolerant, but if you actually read the interview, it seems to me like he's clearly saying that he thinks their products are better because they create an environment where people feel they can be themselves and speak up. Why assume he's talking about bigots with that? Given the context of the question, I feel it's clear he's talking about LGBT+ people.





I will admit there are some minor parts where his wording seems weird, like the "not lead to conflict" bit (maybe something is being muddled in translation here?), but they only seem bad when taken out of the context of the whole interview, and at least to me the message he's trying to get across is that they take diversity seriously in their company and want to make their work environment a place where minorities can speak up and put their influence onto the work.

people are rightfully jumping to that conclusion due to previous "mishaps" with CDPR

even if that was their point, people are still suspicious of them
 

TitanicFall

Member
Nov 12, 2017
8,434
"Talking about the importance of tolerance in the creative process, Badowski discusses how some at the studio believe in a definition of tolerance as "the capacity to respect other people's needs and opinions which we ourselves do not espouse, and to refrain from combating phenomena which we regard as evil. Others are more in line with Popper's proposition that a tolerant society, if it is to remain tolerant, must not tolerate intolerance. There are also people at our studio who disagree with both views."

He states that there are people in the studio who think that intolerance should not be tolerated, some who do, and a third group that (somehow) disagrees with both positions. It's not clear that his point about the ability to "talk honestly, share your ideas, express opinions" does not include intolerant ideas and opinions.

Sounds like they admit to employing people who are intolerant of others because it helps making compelling content.
 
"While Badowksi himself doesn't say which definition he ascribes to, he does say The key takeaway is that diversity... and the differing sensitivities and outlooks which result from it, must not lead to conflict. In this way our team's energy can be fully directed towards creation."

i had to read this like 3 times to sorta of understand it? But I think he's saying that diverse people (gay & people of color I guess?) must leave thier "sensitivities" & opinions at the door for the sake of whatever game thier working on. This is beyond weird to me, because like? If your doing a topic that relates to something you have no knowledge on, then why wouldn't you want people who have the experience to offer advice on said topic? Also? If someone does offer this advice, then is that conflict & being difficult? Like I don't fully get this statement.
 

Kinthey

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
22,839
"While Badowksi himself doesn't say which definition he ascribes to, he does say The key takeaway is that diversity... and the differing sensitivities and outlooks which result from it, must not lead to conflict. In this way our team's energy can be fully directed towards creation."

i had to read this like 3 times to sorta of understand it? But I think he's saying that diverse people (gay & people of color I guess?) must leave thier "sensitivities" & opinions at the door for the sake of whatever game thier working on. This is beyond weird to me, because like? If your doing a topic that relates to something you have no knowledge on, then why wouldn't you want people who have the experience to offer advice on said topic? Also? If someone does offer this advice, then is that conflict & being difficult? Like I don't fully get this statement.
I don't think he means that considering his other statement

What is more, there is strong correlation between openness to "the other" and its effect on creativity and motivation. In my opinion this results mainly from an increased feeling of security. In an environment where you can simply be yourself it becomes easier to have frank discussions, share ideas and express opinions — and that provides a starting point for many interesting activities.
 

Firmus_Anguis

AVALANCHE
Member
Oct 30, 2017
6,323
What I don't understand is - if your take on "diversity" is this bad, why don't you just keep your fucking mouth shut? Why post interviews about it on your goddamn website?
It's as if they're proud of this backwards position.
They don't seem to be aware of how awful this sounds. It's like they think they're being innovative or something... :-/
 

Razmos

Unshakeable One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 28, 2017
15,900
"While Badowksi himself doesn't say which definition he ascribes to, he does say The key takeaway is that diversity... and the differing sensitivities and outlooks which result from it, must not lead to conflict. In this way our team's energy can be fully directed towards creation."

i had to read this like 3 times to sorta of understand it? But I think he's saying that diverse people (gay & people of color I guess?) must leave thier "sensitivities" & opinions at the door for the sake of whatever game thier working on. This is beyond weird to me, because like? If your doing a topic that relates to something you have no knowledge on, then why wouldn't you want people who have the experience to offer advice on said topic? Also? If someone does offer this advice, then is that conflict & being difficult? Like I don't fully get this statement.
I mean it would be consistent with how tone deaf they have been about the issues so far. Though I have doubts they even employ LGBT people anyway despite what they say
 

Azzanadra

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,816
Canada
I know CDPR has a vocal group of chud fans, but this is just blatant pandering to that crowd. I say this as someone who considers The Witcher 3 as one of their favorite games.

Considering this, the Elon Musk thing and past instances of CDPR's problematic behavior re: trans folk, I am started to think William Gibson was right about this just being futuristic GTA and not "cyberpunk" in the sense of adhering to that genre's themes beyond aesthetics.
 

Tovarisc

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,628
FIN
Still, at what line is it considered a "conflict" it's just a weird statement(maybe it's the translation?)

Combined with quote given by Kinthey as reply to your first post makes it sound, to me at least, that "conflict" is reference to in-fighting within company and among colleagues. Those quotes make it sound that CDPR wants to encourage diversity in their workforce from hiring to letting people freely express their beliefs and views, but they want channel that into creative work instead of opposing views etc. being channeled into in-fighting.

If that makes any sense.

Overall interview has some bad parts that combined with company past with fuck ups with representation and messaging does lead to understandable and expected questioning of what really are their values as the company.
 

Truant

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,774
Isn't this a universe where sex (not sure about gender) is basically an aesthetic choice at this point and everyone has five random pieces of junk in their underwear? Seems like a strange take from the head of the studio making a game based on said universe.
 

HMD

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,301
Yeah... What the fuck did he think this statement is going to accomplish?
 

VeryHighlander

The Fallen
May 9, 2018
6,549
Can these guys just shut the fuck up and develop their video game? Jesus. Every time they open their mouths transphobic drivel somehow pours out of their mouth. It's impossible to defend them at this point.
 

take_marsh

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,429
While Badowksi himself doesn't say which definition he ascribes to, he does say "The key takeaway is that diversity... and the differing sensitivities and outlooks which result from it, must not lead to conflict. In this way our team's energy can be fully directed towards creation."

Business-wise in conservative Poland: makes sense.

Reality: fuck that fucking noise. This war against transphobes is always worth fighting.

Christ-on-a-twig, I hope Cyberpunk 2077 will be more than what these pair of dipshits have to offer.