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onpoint

Neon Deity Games
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
15,007
716
Or TikTok, Instagram and Facebook.

predator-handshake.gif
 

RUFF BEEST

Member
Jun 10, 2022
2,050
Toronto, ON
Trying to have the most generous reading here.

The target audience being women, maybe this helped dislodge some viewers from:
  • Low self-esteem that makes them fear being alone (which in turn plants them in bad relationships or feel depressed about being single)
  • Being codependent and/or trying to put more on a marriage than they should (including trying to get all social support you're supposed to get from a network of friends from your husband)
  • Acceptance of the greater narrative that you are incomplete, missing out on life, being judged, or failing at being a human if you haven't gotten married yet or are divorced or living as a single mom
  • So worried about your biological clock that you'll accept being in a shit marriage with a shit person just to finally have the child you want, when being a single parent who relies on family, hired help, and a network of other parents can be an option
  • Resenting (or just being sad/having ennui about) your husband for not actually being an endless font of energy, handiwork, chore-doing, support, and wisdom
I think taking The View super personally or worrying about men who are already depressed being hurt is probably wasted energy. Men largely aren't in the audience and some women do need to hear that they can get by on their own, and not only can but maybe should do more themselves.

The shout-outs to gay men as women's personal stylists/gossip sisters and Mike Pence were weird as fuck tho.

Don't put me on #teamTheView tho, I ain't a defense force. It was a clumsy, bad segment, really. But sometimes saying the too-much thing and overdoing it averages out to a positive action when the too-much thing is internalized, thus becoming a just-right thing.
 

Idde

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,686
That's cool. I'd much rather be wanted than needed anyway.

Also, that woman in red really goes for the most tired, toxic masculinity enforcing clichés possible, doesn't she? Would be fun to get money just for spouting obnoxious and euh 'funny' shit on tv.
 

Servbot24

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
43,243
Aside from reproduction no one really needs anyone. I could get by just fine without women, and women would get by just fine without men.
 

VIPER

Member
Nov 12, 2023
313
What an incredibly stupid video. Men and women do need each other.

We know social isolation is damaging both mentally and physically.

There are also biological needs engrained into us.

We as a species are not lonewolves. Human beings require the comfort and support of others.

Whilst this is not a direct answer to the topic at hand "do women need men", I myself have managed to push myself over the past 5 years in my career and I think this is only with the support of my wife. Since the end of 2023, I am earning a monthly wage which I would never have deemed to be possible. I am not sure if I would be in the same position today if I was single.
 
Feb 24, 2018
5,273
Haven't watch the clip but for me personally, it's really frustrating the implications that wlw couples are still considered less valid in or society, less discussed o just conveniently forgotten about and a lot of time, discussion of it is based around how those types of couples appeal to men (or how WlW have it way "easier" then other LGBTQ+ couples); or it's less healthier for children to be raised by two Moms because they MUST have a man in their lives. Hell even this thread is seeping into that attitude:

We know social isolation is damaging both mentally and physically.

There are also biological needs engrained into us.
So women friends are less valid and I'll suffer from social isolation if my friends are all women?... You know the thing I was suffering when I was forced to be with men...

That's it's weird not to want to have babbies through a man (if I was able to have any :( ) or that I need men in my life to be happy (or be considered REALLY bi because I find women and NB people attractive but not men). Hell

It frustrates me so much that women can be screaming about social issues for years, but the moment a YouTuber white snarky/critical man says the same thing, THEN it gets attention and the man gets most of the credit.

As someone who grew up not realizing I was a woman, being around men was horrible, constantly verbally and physically bullied, my opinions considered less valid and just feeling utterly miserable, resulting in years of trust issues, depression and fear being around lots of men in public. I don't like being flittered with by men and yes I know their are many good men online and kind men on ERA, my experience is that most men online are right wing trash. To be blunt, a lot of the rebuttals to these kind of arguments I've seen when women I've met said this (which was usually about having bad experiences, being a lesbian or wlw) often come across as shallow gotchas like "Oh so you don't need your co-workers AYE! HA AH HA!!!", shitty misogyny bullying women into dating/marrying toxic men like in discussion of South Korea or men using it as an excuse to scream about how much the hate feminism.

Off the web, I could live very happily without men in my life, I feel more comfortable around other women and have had too many bad experiences. Online I do have good men friends but so many times I've seen and met men who were just nasty; it's one of the reason I never use voice chat in video games.
 
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The Omega Man

Fallen Guardian
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,953
I think there is a nuanced difference between:

"Women don't need Men" and "Men are not needed"

While reading and talking about the first sentence many take it as if they are talking about the second sentence.
 

Dyle

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
30,000
There's a reason my hat says Women Fear Me, Fish Want Me rather than Women Need Me, Fish Envy Me
 

Vector

Member
Feb 28, 2018
6,659
That was one of the most regressive things I've ever seen on TV holy shit.

Reducing men down to their usefulness to women is actually really damaging, even on a show no one takes seriously like The View.
 

feline fury

Member
Dec 8, 2017
1,547
You do realize we are barely 40+ (1968 but really it wasnt until the 70s that actually solidifed it) years out from a time when women werent even allowed to buy houses property or could support themselves. As silly as this talking point is, western civilization, treated women like property for the vast majority of our existence.
Collectively needing the opposite sex is a weird ask. We dont need sexual and intimate partners as much as incels want to believe, what we actually need is community, but car culture and individualism has killed Americas ability to build long lasting communities.
What year is it? 😶‍🌫️
 

Cantaim

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,423
The Stussining
I'm too essential for my gf to let go. If I'm gone nobody will be able to swap seats with her so she isn't directly under AC vents at restaurants.
 

meowdi gras

Banned
Feb 24, 2018
12,679
globalnews.ca

Femcels: Inside the enigmatic subculture of involuntary celibate women - National | Globalnews.ca

Most people have heard of incels, but there are plenty of women online who share the same frustrated feelings of involuntary celibacy as men. So what, exactly, is a femcel?
Huh k. TIL. Something tells me there probably aren't any "femcel" grifters of any note, though, while there seem to be a countless number of them being enriched by incels. Which I guess says something about a substantial difference between the two groups.
 

Mindwipe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,240
London
Huh k. TIL. Something tells me there probably aren't any "femcel" grifters of any note, though, while there seem to be a countless number of them being enriched by incels. Which I guess says something about a substantial difference between the two groups.

There are plenty, the entire TERF grifter movement are aimed at femcels.
 

brain_

What is a tag? A miserable pile of words.
Member
May 13, 2021
2,478
MO
I just want someone to cuddle and watch One Piece with

I want them to want the same and not need it (The me part, they should need One Piece)
 

thewienke

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,033
Not really interested in addressing the subject matter and "debate" here because there's not any real academic or even philosophical intent here from "The View".

They're asking this question for two specific reasons:

1. It's the TV version of clickbait to drive eyeballs and word of mouth
2. It's validation for a decent portion of their viewing demographic who are frustrated with the men in their life. Could be from anything like a bad boss, bad breakup, or something horrifyingly traumatic.

So this question really feels like a "wow everyone is just really jaded and bitter these days" moment. Because there's a lot of "gender war" content in social media and it's just an endless amount of broad brushstrokes being painted on every group. Suddenly everyone, including incels/femcels, have their PhD in gender studies.

Just seems like we need to recognize that we can be cognizant of broader trends (which at the end of the day is a problem for academics and the politicians) while still remembering to evaluate each individual apart from their group.
 

meowdi gras

Banned
Feb 24, 2018
12,679
There are plenty, the entire TERF grifter movement are aimed at femcels.
What? The TERF perversion of feminism is aimed at women and men of reactionary inclination in general, not just women who are involuntarily celibate. 🤔

I mean, unless someone can present some receipts showing that TERF ideologies are particularly popular in "femcel" communities? (The article at the provided link didn't mention anything about them.) 🤷‍♀️
 

The Albatross

Member
Oct 25, 2017
39,113
Yup. Reverse the sexes in this discussion and this topic wouldn't be given any oxygen. The double standard is pathetic.

Perhaps generalizing half the human population isn't a useful metric, I wonder.....

I think any man who is suggested to not need women is stigmatized as invcel, loser, loner, negatively asexual, hermit, or even on the extremes, a terrorist, school shooter, child molester, etc. Or in another lens, extremely mysoginistic.

Still, I think the view is just dumb and this is just a dumb segment for TV.
 

Conditional-Pancakes

The GIFs of Us
Member
Jun 25, 2020
10,860
the wilderness
That was one of the most regressive things I've ever seen on TV holy shit.

Reducing men down to their usefulness to women is actually really damaging, even on a show no one takes seriously like The View.

Don't get me wrong, I'm really not endorsing some kind of weird and misplaced "an eye for an eye" thing, but hearing this kind of comment from men always makes me chuckle a bit.

I mean, welcome to how women have been feeling since... forever now? Feels bad, doesn't it? I'm not holding my breath, but if these conversations could at least begin to stop so many men from acting like they're the center of humanity it would be great.
 

Rosebud

Two Pieces
Member
Apr 16, 2018
43,725
I think any man who is suggested to not need women is stigmatized as invcel, loser, loner, negatively asexual, hermit, or even on the extremes, a terrorist, school shooter, child molester, etc. Or in another lens, extremely mysoginistic.

Still, I think the view is just dumb and this is just a dumb segment for TV.
That's really not true, as I said before it was a big plot point of Barbie and it didn't had any reaction like this

It becomes a problem when they are like "I don't need women because 2D women are better, make Aloy sexy" or whatever
 

Vector

Member
Feb 28, 2018
6,659
Don't get me wrong, I'm really not endorsing some kind of weird and misplaced "an eye for an eye" thing, but hearing this kind of comment from men always makes me chuckle a bit.

I mean, welcome to how women have been feeling since... forever now? Feels bad, doesn't it? I'm not holding my breath, but if these conversations could at least begin to stop so many men from acting like they're the center of humanity it would be great.
This type of content will only radicalize some men to be even more dangerous to society which believe it or not is not actually beneficial to women.

Don't get the "feels bad doesn't it?" thing, we've arrived at a point where judging women based on their usefulness to men is heavily frowned upon, as it should be, and the reverse should also be true.
 

The Albatross

Member
Oct 25, 2017
39,113
That's really not true, as I said before it was a big plot point of Barbie and it didn't had any reaction like this

It becomes a problem when they are like "I don't need women because 2D women are better, make Aloy sexy" or whatever

Barbie is a really good, well written movie with clever plot points, and it's the exception that proves the norm. That if the sophistication of the Barbie message with Ken was the conventional view, then it wouldn't have been a stirring or moving plot point in the movie. But also broadly, movie plots aren't usually a true reflection of what a society thinks or acts like, especially when it comes to prejudice and stigma.

It's probably less common among younger people today as we're more accepting of people's choices/desires when it comes to partners, sex, identity, life, etc. Among my single 40+ year old male friends, they're absolutely stigmatized as something being wrong. I think that stigmatization is true of 40+ single/non-dating women too, though IMO it tends to be less pernicious, my sister is is a 45+ year old single, non-dating woman, and she's generally stigmatized by annoying people as a spinster or w/e. For men, there is definitely a strong stigma around someone who is a 40+ non-dating man that's ... pernicious, like, something sexually deviant or evil about them, especially with regard to men and children, which really makes me sad.
 

Brotherhood93

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,813
I have no idea why I watched that but the conversation was even dumber than I thought it would be. Stupid generalisations around gender and sexuality with nothing of substance to say.
 

thetrin

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,665
Atlanta, GA
We all need each other. We are greater together than the sum of our parts.

This topic requires nuance, but no, let's have this dumb fuck conversation that will offer confirmation bias to some ppl, and push ostracized young men further to the fringe.

I hate this shit. I specifically can't stand The View.
 

Conditional-Pancakes

The GIFs of Us
Member
Jun 25, 2020
10,860
the wilderness
This type of content will only radicalize some men to be even more dangerous to society which believe it or not is not actually beneficial to women.

Don't get the "feels bad doesn't it?" thing, we've arrived at a point where judging women based on their usefulness to men is heavily frowned upon, as it should be, and the reverse should also be true.

Saying that it's now heavily frowned upon and not happening anymore is so false. It just is. Sorry.

Of course, things aren't like they were let's say 50 or 60 years ago. But it's still very much happening, just differently.

I think I would just like a lot more self-awareness from men in general.
 
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Tuppen

Member
Nov 28, 2017
2,054
It's a good thing that women (and men) are self reliant and don't need the opposite gender to some stereotypical chore.
 

Xin_Eohp

Member
Apr 28, 2018
179
I don't watch Tiktok but there are a bunch of "women do sexy thing, men do awesome thing" Tiktok videos that get posted in YouTube and the thumbnails occasionally show up on my feed. Every time I have a moment of are we still on these kinds of jokes?

They are the one I hate the most, even worst are the "female autism vs male autism" adding ableism to the mix.
 

Crazyorloco

Member
Dec 12, 2017
1,264
Really sad. And i hate how it's a joke.

Suicide rates for men will continue to rise...we have to value each other.
 

Maximum Spider

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,066
Cleveland, OH
I swear, I feel like men are trying to gaslight the hell out of women into thinking that they have the same struggles as them. If a segment on The View is genuinely causing dipshits to short circuit then maybe they can't be reasoned with.
 
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