Bit harsh there, no one here is saying the struggles are the same but this kind of rhetoric can be harmful.
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Do Women Really Need Men? | The View
- Thread starter Pacote
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Okay so like, I loved the Barbie movie but I've always been confused as to why this is treated as some golden answer that will solve men's problems. Most humans yearn for romantic connection.Why? Men don't need women either. It was even a topic in the damn Barbie movie
Yeah, if a man wants a partner because of toxic masculinity and solely because he feels he needs to fulfil the role expected of him in society, sure, he's Kenough and all that. He shouldn't place his own worth on having a partner.
But I feel like most men probably yearn for relationships because they… want… a relationship? It's literally one of the most basic desires engrained in humans.
"I'm so lonely, I wish I had someone to cuddle with at night."
"Nah bro, you are Kenough."
"Oh okay, now I don't want that basic human experience, actually. Thanks."
And then the common talking point is "men can be there for other men, it's not women's job" but a good group of friends, while FANTASTIC to have and everyone should have some, is not a substitute for romantic desire. I'm utterly confused why people pretend that it is, and why it's such a common retort when it comes to this topic.
While I agree The View isn't doing this topic seriously - the message behind it honestly yeah pretty important message that truthfully I think men need more than women who actually aren't that new to the subject. Not that men aren't needed, but how much society places marriage (and subsequently a family) as the goal of life, and how bad it is to be alone.
Of course I was raised that way as well, but honestly after being in relationships and then coming back to being single I've grown to actually appreciate myself and not feel as though I need another person to complete me. Honestly though I look at the rest of my family and it's absolutely it's such a source of distress, a fear of loneliness, bitterness, and need to "complete" themselves with a match which in turn strengthens bonds to abusive relationships that can't be let go.
This isn't to say accept being alone for life, but to learn how to be happy with yourself which honestly can only lead to better relationships and having a respect for yourself that you can actual confront issues without being afraid of loss.
Tho as a gay trans woman the heteronormativity of the topic is also always eyerolling and in lots of these talks it's like everyone forgets the gays exist as they get into incredibly bioessentialist arguments about what men v women are meant to provide in a relationship.
Of course I was raised that way as well, but honestly after being in relationships and then coming back to being single I've grown to actually appreciate myself and not feel as though I need another person to complete me. Honestly though I look at the rest of my family and it's absolutely it's such a source of distress, a fear of loneliness, bitterness, and need to "complete" themselves with a match which in turn strengthens bonds to abusive relationships that can't be let go.
This isn't to say accept being alone for life, but to learn how to be happy with yourself which honestly can only lead to better relationships and having a respect for yourself that you can actual confront issues without being afraid of loss.
Tho as a gay trans woman the heteronormativity of the topic is also always eyerolling and in lots of these talks it's like everyone forgets the gays exist as they get into incredibly bioessentialist arguments about what men v women are meant to provide in a relationship.
I was talking about men who don't want a partner, or just want it for social status. I imagine the majority of people want a romantic relationship regardless of needs.
It's the same as we are talking about women, they don't need men but they can want them
They chose their spouse on a superficial basis and didn't put much thought into what living with each other would be like. There's also the homosocial aspect to it, where people of that nature are sexually attracted to the opposite gender, but almost exclusively prefer socializing with others of the same gender.
They'll just fall prey to their number two predator - tightly screwed on jar tops.
As a straight man I'm pretty convinced a lot of women would be better off without their current male partner. There is a huge section of men that are useless or assholes or both. I'm definitely one of the useless ones that wouldn't bring anything to a relationship (and maybe an asshole aswell), so I don't date.
I think the interesting bit is what they said about the interviews. Vast majority of women said no. Vast majority of men said yes. Assuming those sample sizes are meaningful and indicative of something (realistically, it's not), I wonder why the discrepancy there.
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My wife of ten years is my best friend. 🤷♂️
I know she'd say the same of me.
There are a lot(!) of worthless men out there. But there are also a lot of worthless women. Probably easy to just say "a lot of people really suck."
But we are social animals by evolution. I certainly don't NEED a woman; but boy do I enjoy having one I love. And again, I imagine my wife would say similar.
I know she'd say the same of me.
There are a lot(!) of worthless men out there. But there are also a lot of worthless women. Probably easy to just say "a lot of people really suck."
But we are social animals by evolution. I certainly don't NEED a woman; but boy do I enjoy having one I love. And again, I imagine my wife would say similar.
Quoting this because I think it illustrates the disconnect I'm reading in some of these posts.
Seperate of that The View segment, I don't think that people should assume women asserting for themselves, among themselves, that they don't need men as being the same statement as "...and thus men aren't needed." That a lot of men do is part of the problem.
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The men in the interviews mentioned were answering Yes to the question "do men need women?"
Citation needed. 99% of her most popular songs are about shitty dudes.
Self-hate like this isn't the way. We all need to improve as people in certain ways, but I'm confident you're a better person than you're insinuating with this post. A real asshole wouldn't have this level of self-awareness.
Thanks, I was wondering if that was the case but didn't really wanna sit through the video so I'm kinda glad someone else could prompt an answer.
Which yeah I do feel is an interesting discrepancy. Obviously it's something women have actually had to deal with in the not-so-distant that past quite legally required men to survive, but I think there's also a lot of tropes about old lonely women with cats - we even have the word spinster for old unmarried women and no it's not the counterpart to "bachelor", and women literally have a legal title defined by their marital status.
But it is interesting to look at the perspective that men hold to get them to their position, which only really brings up the conversation of how men feel they are owed a woman and how there's even been the recent talking point about enforced monogamy as an answer to male violence.
Makes me wonder how a video titled 'do men really need women?' would go. Most people don't need anyone, but companionship is nice and can be helpful regardless.
oooh, I see
my answer is the same tho lol. women are necessary to enforce men's social position. women want to be equals, not accessories.
I was just trying to put myself in the internet nihilist mode of thought that would ultimately conclude that there is no need for humans to survive.
Oh lol *whoosh*
Ironically I used to think that when I was a teen, like I could be content alone forever. Ah the sweet follies of youth
To who? The opposite version where we everyone is expected to handhold grown men is the real toxic crap. Don't not think that some of this pity party around men feeling lost isn't being put to the forefront because it once again paints women as they issue.
Imagine what an abusive male partner would say about why they're forced to be abusive towards their female partner. SO many of these recent conversations sound damn near exact to the sort of stuff that the shitty abusive guys would say to women to emotionally torture them.
I believe in the segment the men are saying that men need women, not that the men interviewed believe women need men.
I need women in my life, I don't think I feel that way because of sexism, I just wouldn't want to live in a world where I only interact with men.
Well I'm not upset personally but I can see how a man with low self esteem would be upset by a bunch of famous people saying he has no value in society. That doesn't immediately make them some piece of shit woman hater.
Plenty of awful men exist and deserve to be called out for it but we don't need to lump them together.
Eh, I'm going to say that the men involved are the problem with any of the toxic shit those men spread or grift other men into believing.
So when the host says only gay man are needed cause and I quote the woman in the video "I cant live without gay man cause they are the best to gossip and help me accessorize" I guess if a Gay felt offended they are... dipshits... right?
Well, at least one of the husband probably didnt love how his wife was on national television just humiliating him lol
It's not.
This argument always come up and it bothers me because it puts the whole burden on people who are suffering from toxic masculinity directly. Like it's called "manosphere" but somehow the women are the real problem?
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I'm a straight man who has been single for 6 years. I know women don't need me, and I recognized a long time ago they don't, so I've been trying to become a better person for the last 6.
But a strange thing happened. I don't need women, either. I cook for myself, I clean for myself, and I do everything I want for myself. Do I miss hugs? Do I miss sex? Do I miss the company of a beautiful woman? Hell yes. Does that mean I "need" women? No. And I'm sure they don't need me either.
We go our whole lives doing without plenty of things. Discussions like this seem less productive than discussions like "Do we need meat?" or "Do we need plastic?" or "Do we need social media?"
But a strange thing happened. I don't need women, either. I cook for myself, I clean for myself, and I do everything I want for myself. Do I miss hugs? Do I miss sex? Do I miss the company of a beautiful woman? Hell yes. Does that mean I "need" women? No. And I'm sure they don't need me either.
We go our whole lives doing without plenty of things. Discussions like this seem less productive than discussions like "Do we need meat?" or "Do we need plastic?" or "Do we need social media?"
You sound like my husband, rofl...
In joking humor, I would say that as of this point no, we really don't need men even for procreation because we have such a large amount of sperm donors that women could keep the human race going even if all of the physical men disappeared.
That said, we need companionship as a race because otherwise we'll go insane and we'll all have volleyballs named Wilson.
Sorry, I blew past that and didn't consider how it affected gay men.
"I don't know, my husband talks about his feelings with his friends."
"Maybe he's gay."
Cool, it's just a couple of women unhappy in their marriage with their useless husbands and if there is any counter narrative, they can't handle it. It's a case of heterofatalism tied with regressive gender essentialism. The straights aren't okay.
View: https://youtu.be/S4xCbmCG2Rc?si=30sKcwItlgRxzuAI
"Maybe he's gay."
Cool, it's just a couple of women unhappy in their marriage with their useless husbands and if there is any counter narrative, they can't handle it. It's a case of heterofatalism tied with regressive gender essentialism. The straights aren't okay.
View: https://youtu.be/S4xCbmCG2Rc?si=30sKcwItlgRxzuAI
I'm pretty sure the message there was "a woman doesn't complete you."
I'm a dude whose self-esteem has been set at near-zero for almost my entire life and yeah, navigating the internet last few years hasn't been great lmao.
The straights are at it again.
9 times outta 10 when this sort of thing comes up, the people gossiping--because this shit is just gossip with a budget--don't want women to need women, either. Yippie for rampant homophobia! They're just clucking hens that serve to hurt literally everyone.
9 times outta 10 when this sort of thing comes up, the people gossiping--because this shit is just gossip with a budget--don't want women to need women, either. Yippie for rampant homophobia! They're just clucking hens that serve to hurt literally everyone.
It's the same thing, though. If a dude wants a connection, a relationship, and can't get into one, he's gonna be upset about not having that, and no amount of "you're complete as you are, king" will make it feel better.
It's a little more nuanced. Ken's existence was defined by being Barbie's boyfriend. His mugshot earlier in the movie read "AND KEN". He had to learn to be just Ken, rather than depend on her to complete him.
Being your own person and being in a relationship are not mutually exclusive things.
I commented on this earlier. Science has made relatively recent advances that allows two women to have a biological child. ROPA, or lesbian shared IVF.
I am relieved I don't need a man, I can have a good paying job and have my own house and bank account.
A couple generations ago I would have not been allowed to do this.
100% agree
A couple generations ago I would have not been allowed to do this.
100% agree
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