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Do you agree with this Joe Biden statement?
- Thread starter DigitalOp
- Start date
Nothing nearly so extreme. Here:
This is almost perfect. He didn't have to go the extra mile to equate the violence by police and the reaction by protesters. He didn't... but he made sure that he did.
Exactly. This is who he is. He is telling you right in the open. Posters always pretend like these establishment Democrats are playing nth degree chess. Oh and for sure they'll tell us to shut up in '21, '22, shit they'll probably still be saying "sit down, shut up" in 2050...
User banned (1 month): Generalizing liberals as "awful people" and enablers of fascism over multiple posts. Long history of infractions for inflammatory posting and general hostility.
What do you expect out of a liberal. They're awful people.
Of course liberalEra are here to tell us they're the grown ups, and that we don't understand politics. Where would we be without them, i'm so glad they're here to lead by our small brain hand.
Of course liberalEra are here to tell us they're the grown ups, and that we don't understand politics. Where would we be without them, i'm so glad they're here to lead by our small brain hand.
Sounds about white.
Excellent postNothing nearly so extreme. Here:
but what about white suburban moms
This exchange along with the rest of the thread explains so much really. I wish more attention was paid to it.
The frankness of that reply indicates that poster doesn't care about any of that.
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If his arguments are fundamentally the same why even appeal to his history?
Biden is a politician. He cares about what the country looks like here and now. He changes with the times. Obama was against gay marriage at one point; you don't need to hold it against him.
I feel like if you look at the vast majority of how politicians operate, this is not even controversial. Kirsten Sinema used to be a lefty activist, now she's like the most conservative Democrat in the Senate. They present their theory of the case, and if they win, that's it. That's all that matters.
I agree with this 100%, but the calculus was certainly that the next "will you pack the courts?" would be "do you denounce the looting?" if he went with the (much better) statement above.
And I think the media was able to effectively carry water--intentionally or otherwise--for the right with that whole episode until Biden came up with the council of whatever-the-fuck answer and they finally dropped it.
Doesn't stop it from being an idiotic, blind and dismissive statement.
As someone who grew up around the Birmingham Jail Letter's target of ire I can absolutely guarantee you that there's people that would be put at ease by the 2nd paragraph.
I wouldn't be surprised if it was tbh but nonetheless it doesn't change the fact that this shit is a good shield to stave off all the inevitable "denounce the looting" shit the media will throw out.
You might be right and I might even agree with you after digesting the criticisms, but I personally won't know till November 5th
its October 28th and biden is running against trump, i dont know i dont think my stance is that radical
There is no wisdom to defending this statement on the basis of polls that suggest the Biden campaign needs to collect racist voters who feel their liberties are being infringed upon by protests against state-sponsored murder. Polls merely suggest that a lot of people have shitty, fickle views, not that they're correct. Picture this statement coming from a Biden administration rather than a Biden campaign. Voters tend to follow what representatives offer, yet even before Biden is in office statements like this one will only serve to further oppression once his administration is in power. And yet, while oppression continues, polls will show that people are suddenly more content about the state of things despite there being no material change.
America is an evil empire that exists because of slavery and genocide.
Its leader will never be honest
Its leader will never be honest
It's not a 'good shield', it's a complete abdication of responsibility for the role the state plays in this issue. Who the fuck cares about what the media says if no one is trying to meaningfully change the situation? They are just in agreement about doing next to nothing in that case.
6 Days
Lets just get the orange turd out, then we can work towards a better stance/change across the board. Lets get the trash out of the White House, then we can start looking towards the INSANE mountain of work and repair that will be needed.
...and it is INSANE in size...sigh.
Hopefully there's something more than the usual from the Dems come January. I'm happy that there are people that will be around Biden that will push him (women and minorities) towards doing better.
Lets just get the orange turd out, then we can work towards a better stance/change across the board. Lets get the trash out of the White House, then we can start looking towards the INSANE mountain of work and repair that will be needed.
...and it is INSANE in size...sigh.
Hopefully there's something more than the usual from the Dems come January. I'm happy that there are people that will be around Biden that will push him (women and minorities) towards doing better.
It's not remotely radical, it's upholding the status quo on this issue, that's entirely the problem with what you said.
This type of shit always gets me.
One of this nation's greatest tools to control the masses is to label any expressions of legit outrage other than kumbaya "peaceful protest" as unjust or wrong. Maybe people wouldn't feel like they have to set the world on fire to show their frustration if they felt like the people in power actually heard them and gave a fuck about how unfair these systems are.
Anyway, it's another example of the left telling people to not demand more from their presidential candidate than the reg by-the-numbers "doesn't get it" response.
One of this nation's greatest tools to control the masses is to label any expressions of legit outrage other than kumbaya "peaceful protest" as unjust or wrong. Maybe people wouldn't feel like they have to set the world on fire to show their frustration if they felt like the people in power actually heard them and gave a fuck about how unfair these systems are.
Anyway, it's another example of the left telling people to not demand more from their presidential candidate than the reg by-the-numbers "doesn't get it" response.
"At the same time, No amount of anger at the very real injustices in our society excuses violence"
BZZZT. Wrong. Incorrect. Not factual.
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"At the same time, No amount of anger at the very real injustices in our society excuses violence"
"At the same time, No amount of anger at the very real injustices in our society excuses violence"
"At the same time, No amount of anger at the very real injustices in our society excuses violence"
(lmao when you apply the quote to this event)
"At the same time, No amount of anger at the very real injustices in our society excuses violence"
"At the same time, No amount of anger at the very real injustices in our society excuses violence"
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You see how silly that fucking quote is for even a small handful of American history? Sure, we can know why he said it but it doesn't make it any better or even smart in context of whats going on in today's world.
Holly shit, does that statement just really miss the mark on whats at stake and really highlights who has to deal with the real fallout over this shit and who is in the bubble unaffected. And clearly Joe Biden is fucking unaffected.
Violence.
We've been socialized to abhor it, to denounce it. Yet, our favorite movies and games blast peoples heads off with no care. The fact of the matter is, Violence is a part of our world and humans are extremely capable of it. In a perfect world, Violence is only a tool to be utilized in self-defense....... but our world is not perfect and ironically has been completely shaped by violence to begin with (Colonial Violence)
Lets break down why this quote is so aggravating:
1. Biden doesn't even denounce the fucking violence from police in the statement.
Nowhere in the fucking statement does Biden say the police in Philly did anything wrong. Theres no blame placed on law enforcement. No burden. Nowhere it says the police operate in a racist fashion. Nowhere it says our criminal justice system is biased. It doesn't say the police acted out of line or acted too rash.
Look very closely
Just a vague "violence of yesterdays shooting" mention.
But it does jump on those protestors! No justification! You are committing crimes! The cops who refuse to use non lethal gear they are issued, on a mentally distressed person who was kept at distance isnt a crime? okay. Looting isnt protest? So what was the Boston Tea Party? A riot? a crime? hmmmm
"it draws attention away from the real tragedy"
No you fucking goof, you distract your own attention away. The looting is DIRECTLY because of the death you fucking stable genius. The only person killed here was a black man but black people responding are being scolded about violence? What in the fuck? By him using that sentence, he puts all the blame on us and esentially gives the police cause to be justified.
2. White People as a whole have historically gaslit everyone into the misconception of Violence
White Supremacy is most efficient through controlling narrative and when we look at history, American Colonial White Settlers were some of the most violent and depraved groups to be documented. However, when you learn Public Edu American history, it is taught with an angle that such crimes against humanity that were done to found America were justified. It doesn't even dip a toe into the injustice of the natives. It doesnt say one word about the absolute horror of chattel slavery. It damn sure doesnt use violent as the term to define those events, more like unfortunate or dark period. Even though they are easily some of the most violent parts of our history. We fought the most violent war on our own soil literally over Racism. They def refer to the Civil War as violent but have you ever fucking heard anyone say that the response to the "real injustice of society" at the time had no excuse for it? Who is trying to be fooled?
Violence was the primer to shape our American society. Its the reason people moved around the country, why entire communities were created. This country will never ban guns. Ever. And for every documented act of violence among our white populace, its always justified in their eyes when discussed. From a sports game riot to a double homicide at a protest from an underage shooter
But heres where shit gets twisted. When Black People respond to their extrajudicial killings with violence against PROPERTY. FUCKING PROPERTY. The Govt wants to gaslight and equate like raging on a Target is equivalent to a black person losing their life for no fucking reason. They are not equal. They will never be equal. When I think back to this countries sick relation with us being seen as property, I begin to understand why this "debate" wants to show up. I dont condone trashing local peoples shit (esp community) thats dumb. but i dont give a fuck about a corp. (even thats dumb cuz they get paid off insurance but come up). CNN cried like children when people swarmed their HQ in GA this summer. THE NEXT MORNING, they replaced their front window and statue. Property can be replaced. Things get replaced. People cannot.
We know why riots fucking happen. Joe knows why the riot happened. He says fucking nothing about the cause of it.
3. Im so fucking tired of the forgiveness angle (im sure others feel the same)
Ima keep it 100%. Christian dogma controlling bullshit. Forgiveness as a concept it itself has its merit
But forgiveness itself is one of the most personal principles. its a direct relationship between the abuser and the victim with ONLY the sole consent of the victim. It involves 0 outside stigma. Anything outside of that is irrelevant. Thats how forgiveness works, yet White Society bludgeons us with it constantly as a guilt trip for its continued violence. I can sit here and list case by case of all the offenses we were meant to forgive. We've been over this 1000 times. The violence continues. The death continues.
When it comes to white people dealing with their consequences of Racism, they are quick to scream about 'ruining lives', meanwhile on the other side, somebody is fucking dead or had to deal with some absolute bullshit over nothing even significantly consequential. Funny how that fucking works. Someway I keep rolling the die and it always land on this number. Every single story we are so quick to rush over that somebody is dead, its always about the goddamn murderers life quality in the end.
America beat our heads about Jesus.... Jesus.... A brown guy who preached nonviolence and was killed by the state. hmmmm. You know whats funny about Jesus and the Bible? they tell us he's the son of god, the image of perfection. The nigga died for our sins. He willingly let the state abuse him until he died.
Then the bible quickly tells us we are an imperfect image. It doesn't say to be Jesus, it says to be more like him. It knows we cant reach the standard. It knows nonviolence is not a feasible 100% perfect state thats attainable in someones entire life span. It always comes up. People really have "turn the other cheek" and "forgiveness" fucked up. You can only forgive so fucking much till your done.
Medgar Evar - peaceful nonviolent - KILLED
MLK - peaceful nonviolent - KILLED
Malcolm X - violence when necessary - KILLED
BPP - violence when necessary - KILLED
What the fuck do you expect when you assault people with oppression on a daily basis and do nothing? Why do we honestly expect people to sit back and take every insult and every attack with no response? all this cultural bullshit being dragged up and all of the original sins coming to roost in this country and nobody thinks anyone is going to feel threatened to act? The Government is violating the Social Contract and keep telling us to sit the fuck down and cry about it.
Dont fucking expect forgiveness for continual generational blood violence, who does that?
4. His small mention of the "solution" is fucking trash
"As a nation we are strong enough to meet the challenges of real police reform, including implementing a national use of force standard, and to maintain peace and security in our communities. That must be our American mission. That is how we deliver real justice"
Let me read to you how my brain reads this statement:
"Our goal is to put together a standardized conduct guideline on how the state will handle you with the goal being to maintain peace and security to our community (whos community?) This is our main focus. This is the only justice we will recognize"
...... This guy got 2 fucking paragraphs pitching for cops and one for how heartbroken everyone is. man fuck that bullshit. On top of that you say WE'RE taking away from protest??? You can't even fucking say the police killed anyone?!?! what the fuck
5. Who the fuck does this guy think he is? Who wrote this shit for him?
"At the same time, No amount of anger at the very real injustices in our society excuses violence"
WHAT? The segregationist is saying this?
The guy who was buddy buddy with Thurmond?
The dude who grilled Anita Hill?
The Crime Bill guy?
The "vote for me or you aint black" guy?
The guy whos answer to racial injustice by the state is to give police more money because the police definitely 100% do not misappropriate funds now?
Go fuck yourself
6. Liberals already getting defensive for criticizing good ol Joe
Prob the main fucking reason of this entire thread. Because its already starting. You really got me fucked up. This statement is trash. It inspires no confidence in me for Black People in this country. And I already see back to norms starting to kick in if Biden takes power. Here's what liberals in general really need to understand, just because your personal dissatisfaction with BunkerBoy is now relieved, DOES NOT in any way mean we are any closer to the reform and changes we need for this country as whole. In fact, Biden does not support some things that would help certain groups. You need to be seriously prepared if the Admin does not show up and dragged us for our fucking votes again. 2021 will be hell to pay on that regard. Do not expect anyone to silence themselves on this Admin because "BunkerBoy is gone"
This shit is nowhere close to being over and every single day more and more people get affected by this bullshit
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I honestly pray for the Dem Trifecta. Because it will be the one true moment we get to fully see how the soul of this country operates and we will get a clear vision on what this country actually is in the modern day.
Im no fucking idiot. I do not need convincing that Biden is the better option compared to the Jabba the Hut. But I dont have to be happy. I definitely dont have to sing his fucking praises until something is actually done.
And before anyone gets pissy about it, i already voted for his goofy ass shit and i encourage others to do the same.
However, its getting really clear who is just talking the talk. We dont owe nobody shit.
Were not just fighting Donald trump were fighting the system
He wants to win and will say whatever he thinks makes him more appealing.
He's fucking wrong though.
He's fucking wrong though.
Yeah, I'm super optimistic that people will start taking black voters seriously AFTER they're elected when they're not even doing the work to earn our trust before getting there.
And all the people saying, "He has to say this to appease xyz voters."
When will that not be true?
Quoting MLK and never remembering to lambast the fucking horrible moderates.
Smart Trump is coming and ya'll are gonna wonder why black people are apathetic about this country and voting. We can't keep saving this country from itself when ya'll don't want to save us from the foundations of this country.
Remember during the summer we're this country had the biggest protests movement it has ever seen and it was largely peaceful but the media ignored it?
It's one thing to say it is politically advantageous for him to say that.
Its a whole nother thing to agree with his statement that showcases more anger at property damage than the shooting of a human being. And about 50% of resetera doesn't see anything wrong with it.
Scary and disappointing stuff.
Its a whole nother thing to agree with his statement that showcases more anger at property damage than the shooting of a human being. And about 50% of resetera doesn't see anything wrong with it.
Scary and disappointing stuff.
Thats fair enough if its an attitude that i hold in the future/when its not voting week vs trump/ when its a moderate republican vs a democrat and the democrat isn't moving the needle on issues, it reminds me of that article a while ago by someone who was suggesting that American might be better off in the long run if it DID collapse to allow something better to be built in its place in the future
but again, for me personally it is not that situation. its just that the other person is donald "BLM is a terrorist organization" trump.
I had edited my post, to add more of my thoughts. My hopes are that the young/women/minorities/more progressive people that will be around this leadership will start making changes for the better. I don't ever expect someone like Biden, or other older people in our government, to do anything on their own without the pressure/guidance/direction of the new generation of Democrats.
It doesn't harm him to remove that paragraph. Do you think writing it is going to win him the election? Most voters will have never even known he issued it.
This is who Biden is, and he will say it again after the election.
No, all the people here do not want a stronger statement. If they did they would say so rather than agree with it. There are lots of people here who agree with this, hence the poll results.
OP's not wrong but expecting anything from Biden or any Dem running for Prez is nuts. I doubt Sanders woulda said anything that much different tbh. You have to realize just how much of the country that Joe Biden is running to be president of thinks like this.
They'll never admit it. Everything Biden does will be justified because it's what he has to do. Prepare for four years of constant circular logic.
Amen. Great post. I feel the same in voting for Biden (or kamala who i feel will be the real president). And im glad you voiced that here. Before this thread gets locked - i want to say we should be able to talk about that. I appreciate the mods allowing for this conversation.
I get a feeling change will not come, at least not right away. Feels like we have to reach rock bottom.
"Certain conditions continue to exist in our society, which must be condemned as vigorously as we condemn riots. But in the final analysis, a riot is the language of the unheard. And what is it that America has failed to hear?" - Dr. MLK
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Why are the those people more important than the people that would be turned off by his statement as is?
It's probably because the people who think progress is going smoothly are the ones bending over backwards.
because white voters matter more than black people and nobody will say it in those explicit words
So because he's not telling people to burn cities down, he's no longer on our side? A week before election? Come on now. This has been his stance since day one. Peaceful protest, no violence. Unlike Trump who labels all people who protest criminals.
It's this. And we see it. Because we're not the fucking stupid people so many seem to think.
Real change won't happen overnight. Regardless of how shit a Biden presidency may be, it's still a great opportunity to point at the establishment Dems when nothing changes and pull people further left, and we may not even get 2024, but we can continue to elect more Left candidates in the house and senate. The biggest left movement we've had, came after 8 years of Obama and his administration failing to address any issues, we can get there, but it won't be quick.
So here's my thing: if it's true that these white moderates are so important that we need them to win the election, then we should be equally vigilant in calling out Biden and making our voices more vocal. The reaction should be not to fall in line with the white moderates, but to make our views just as known. We can call Joe Biden shit today, tomorrow, and forever, since apparently he is already beholden to the white moderates anyway.
Unless of course you agree with the statement in which case I have nothing to say to you.
Unless of course you agree with the statement in which case I have nothing to say to you.
So you've fallen back on the usual. "this is called politics, which is something you don't understand" and "the being the grown up in the room" condensation. So very tiring.
People like you are the reason fascism is allowed to flourish.
It's not about whether he's "on our side", it's that he's actively steering public opinion against the protests with statements like this.
Context is important too. When the violence referred to is rioters/looters that are taking place in the midst of protests, where the aim is to either profit from the chaos or discredit the protestors, yeah I would be against that violence too. I fully support the protestors including them not having to face the blame for looting and property damage that they don't inflict.
They won't say it explicitly but they demonstrate it every election cycle. It's predictable as pie. Black voters are pitched to in the Democratic primary and ignored in the general election in favor of white voters, especially older white suburban moderates.
It's true that it is the same statement as any politically pragmatic politician would make. I just think Biden fans who want more shouldn't expect more. Look at the specific things he said he's going to do, and assume that's what he will try to do.
Personally, I don't think liberals and progressives speaking our minds on his statement will hurt Joe any. He's essentially said the same things multiple times previously, people who didn't agree maje plenty of noise, and Republicans run the same Biden = antifa terrorist lover propaganda regardless of what anyone says. It doesn't move the needle, and probably holds back Trump's numbers as he's the one in charge during all this and publically went full Fascist as a response.
I don't get why people feel the need to come up with the most hyperbolic strawman "alternatives" possible to this statement in response to criticism of it. "Oh, so you're saying Joe should've brought out a guillotine?!"
All I'm seeing here are people saying he didn't need to tell black people how to protest. That he could've just omitted that part. That's it.