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Do you think big leaps in gaming are over?
- Thread starter Concelhaut
- Start date
In response to alot of the VR posts I see here, I just recently setup VR. I have a Vive and I've owned it for about a month now. From what I've experienced VR is basically what I thought it would be. It's neat, but it isn't intuitive. It's hard to set up. It costs a lot of money. There's not a lot of people who own it so if you have a problem you might be among just dozens that have that specific problem. To get any decent experience you'll have to go for the most premium software. Lower end software is usually very very bad and sometimes doesn't really even work well at all. You also need a great computer to run it at a resolution that isn't blurry. It requires a lot of room. It is very fun when it's all working and initially something that wows you but after you get over that and try to play for long periods of time that effect does wear off. I think of it as a different experience and one that compliments my other ones but it will never replace traditional gaming simply because some of the genres require movements that would be inhuman or too tiring. You'd still need a controller or something to do those kind of inputs. In addition to that not all games play the best in first person so I think VR is just a side show. It reminds me of a more arcadey experience.
VR eventually will get to a point where it's more accessible. I don't think that time is anytime soon. You need higher resolution, stronger computers, higher refresh rates, a lot more games that are a lot better (there's some but the selection is small compared the regular consoles), much much cheaper prices, less wires, and a better way of making it interactive when people are around.
It took me about a week to redo my room, learn how to set everything up, configure the best settings, figure out what was bugging out the headset in my room (the big ass mirror I had was making the headset go crazy if you faced it), design solutions to create a better vr environment, learning this controller and all of its buttons because you cant always see the thing in VR so on a per game basis you have to wade your way through the controls (since most games don't teach you), and setup tons of codecs and software from google drives and other places just to get 5-6k videos running properly. It's just a lot.
We managed to have a VR testing party when I got mine setup. People who had never experienced VR were blown away by it. Everyone had fun and wanted to get one after it was all said and done. Being able to see what they saw on the monitor helped with being included in the VR action so that's something that basically has to be there. It's impressive when it's all set up and everything done for you, but also when they got home to research it all they realized how much money it cost and all the things they would have to do to get it working in their home and it immediately got pushed back to the side. These guys and ladies can afford it too, but with them having kids on the way the space concerns are real and also just setting all of that stuff up is a hassle. I recommended them the Oculus Quest since that seems to be a good route.
I heard all about how crazy VR is from here and I can say that it's good just definitely not this transformative experience to me. I didn't leave VR thinking I'd give up my consoles but I left VR thinking about how I really like it as a separate experience that compliments the games I have now. I do not feel like its something most people will want to use in their daily lives and in addition to that, in my opinion, I can't say that it could ever replace traditional gaming completely. I did gain some respect for it though. It was more fun than I had anticipated and a different experience that I valued.
That said, I don't think VR currently is the big leap in gaming, but I do think it is a new path in gaming kind of like how motion controls were. I think maybe like VR when it has no headsets, mixed with AR, looks just like my regular human vision, and detects my whole body without controllers. That would be super crazy and definitely a leap, but I don't think I'll be alive to see it happen lol.
As for other leaps, graphically I think we're pretty much done once ray tracing takes off (I mean the real stuff later and not the stuff we have now) because beyond that I think it'll come down to human skill and budget. I think AI could be the next revolution in games if it got extremely good and made games way more dynamic. I think facial animation tech and stuff could help too like how that LA Noire stuff went but to a higher level. Overall, I do think that next generation isn't going to be as exciting as the previous ones.
VR eventually will get to a point where it's more accessible. I don't think that time is anytime soon. You need higher resolution, stronger computers, higher refresh rates, a lot more games that are a lot better (there's some but the selection is small compared the regular consoles), much much cheaper prices, less wires, and a better way of making it interactive when people are around.
It took me about a week to redo my room, learn how to set everything up, configure the best settings, figure out what was bugging out the headset in my room (the big ass mirror I had was making the headset go crazy if you faced it), design solutions to create a better vr environment, learning this controller and all of its buttons because you cant always see the thing in VR so on a per game basis you have to wade your way through the controls (since most games don't teach you), and setup tons of codecs and software from google drives and other places just to get 5-6k videos running properly. It's just a lot.
We managed to have a VR testing party when I got mine setup. People who had never experienced VR were blown away by it. Everyone had fun and wanted to get one after it was all said and done. Being able to see what they saw on the monitor helped with being included in the VR action so that's something that basically has to be there. It's impressive when it's all set up and everything done for you, but also when they got home to research it all they realized how much money it cost and all the things they would have to do to get it working in their home and it immediately got pushed back to the side. These guys and ladies can afford it too, but with them having kids on the way the space concerns are real and also just setting all of that stuff up is a hassle. I recommended them the Oculus Quest since that seems to be a good route.
I heard all about how crazy VR is from here and I can say that it's good just definitely not this transformative experience to me. I didn't leave VR thinking I'd give up my consoles but I left VR thinking about how I really like it as a separate experience that compliments the games I have now. I do not feel like its something most people will want to use in their daily lives and in addition to that, in my opinion, I can't say that it could ever replace traditional gaming completely. I did gain some respect for it though. It was more fun than I had anticipated and a different experience that I valued.
That said, I don't think VR currently is the big leap in gaming, but I do think it is a new path in gaming kind of like how motion controls were. I think maybe like VR when it has no headsets, mixed with AR, looks just like my regular human vision, and detects my whole body without controllers. That would be super crazy and definitely a leap, but I don't think I'll be alive to see it happen lol.
As for other leaps, graphically I think we're pretty much done once ray tracing takes off (I mean the real stuff later and not the stuff we have now) because beyond that I think it'll come down to human skill and budget. I think AI could be the next revolution in games if it got extremely good and made games way more dynamic. I think facial animation tech and stuff could help too like how that LA Noire stuff went but to a higher level. Overall, I do think that next generation isn't going to be as exciting as the previous ones.
Oculus Quest solves the wires, price, and PC issues. Valve Index solves the refresh rate issue, Varjo XR-1 solves the isolation issue. Google's 4800x3840 per eye VR displays would solve the resolution issue when used in a headset and foveated rendering would ensure current GPUs can push it with no hassle.
So we have every piece there from what you've listed, just not in one product.
Did you play Lone Echo / Echo VR, Hellblade, Elite Dangerous, Moss, Sprint Vector? A number of these are examples of transformative games. Did you try non-gaming stuff like VRChat, BigScreen, Tilt Brush, Google Earth, Welcome to Lightfields, TheWaveXR? These are the reasons why an average person will want to use VR daily in the future.
You wouldn't care about wearing a headset when it's small enough, so lets replace the no headset point with small visors/glasses. A sleek visor seems doable in the mid 2020s using waveguide displays, pancake lenses, or a metalens. Detecting your whole body will be a staple of the 2nd generation. Mixing with AR will be a staple of the 2nd generation.
So basically nearly everything you want will happen over the next 5-7 years and anything left unsaid will happen shortly after, such as force-feedback haptic gloves.
TL;DR: Give it 10 years and VR will have reached and surpassed base Ready Player One technology.
most genres are nowhere near their peak. there's tons of room to improve
the stuff that's kind of near-peak are some of the relatively simple multiplayer sports-like games (eg. fighting, racing, some types of FPS). they kind of simulate some activity, and as long as the simulation is decent there isn't anywhere to leap without some radically different control schemes. racing games don't even have that because people already play them with similar controls as real cars
the stuff that's kind of near-peak are some of the relatively simple multiplayer sports-like games (eg. fighting, racing, some types of FPS). they kind of simulate some activity, and as long as the simulation is decent there isn't anywhere to leap without some radically different control schemes. racing games don't even have that because people already play them with similar controls as real cars
For graphics... maybe not too much more that I'd be willing to pay more. More VR and better immersion... absolutely.
Unless VR headsets can be worn as easily as any pair of glasses it will never be mainstream. I love VR and I built an expensive PC specifically for the current flagship VR headset (Valve Index) but I just can't see it being mainstream when it's so expensive and so unimpressive when it's made affordable.
The software is also horribly lacking.
The software is also horribly lacking.
AI feels as dumb as PS2 days. Tons of room to wow there. Lots of things are not physics based either. We still rarely see water physics where liquids naturally pour and splash over objects. Metals don't bend and crumple. Trees don't break unless it's scripted. And VR lots of room for improvement. Next gen I think we'll see lots more detail in the open worlds.
The big leaps have been over since the jump to HD.
We went from blocky models and blurry textures to actually something clear and legible. No fidelity increase or new rendering techniques will come even close to the same ballpark as that.
We went from blocky models and blurry textures to actually something clear and legible. No fidelity increase or new rendering techniques will come even close to the same ballpark as that.
tell that to the people making Pokémon games who have announced no future game will ever have the full roster
I think next gen will be a similar leap as this one.
While I think we will still see a lot of the effects and other graphics techs that were introduced this gen, but in greater abundance,, we will also see higher polycount, new graphic techs like the quixel stuff, larger more dynamic and detailed worlds.
Yes, I think there's still a lot more to do in those aspects, rather than graphics (which still have a long way to go, in cases like Pokémon).
I dream of the day a Pokémon game looks like this
I feel like some smart company is going to take VR to the next level and we will all be wondering why we did it differently before. Like when we switched from buttonphones to smartphones.
Maybe not as dramatic but i do feel like VR needs an extra push. What or when i have no idea.
Folks writing off VR based on the limitations of today are hilarious. 99% of the issues folks are talking about are actively being worked on, and some have even been addressed but are just not there yet price-wise (they eventually will be). It won't be the dominant way of playing games sure, but it'll at least get to a point where a sizable number of the console/pc userbase (I'm talking in the 30+ % range) own a headset and play at least some games in VR. And yeah, due to interest in it and the possibilities, VR is where the biggest leaps are and will be in the immediate future. It is rapidly iterating compared to traditional gaming.
Anyways, even for traditional gaming, I don't think big leaps are over. Most folks don't seem to be thinking about the possibilities of having a SSD as a standard that is being designed around and are just sticking to thinking about basic load times. I think there are going to be some games doing some mindblowing shit that wouldn't have been possible due to HDD.
I do see 10th gen (PS6 or whatever) being a smaller leap than 9th gen, but do figure that due to the way things go, that there will have been some significant tech enhancement in time for 11th gen to have a significant leap again. We just don't know what it is yet. heck, maybe that significant jump could even show up in time for 10th gen and it does end up being a significant leap.
Even this leap for 9th gen with SSD was considered impossible by most at the start of this year.
Anyways, even for traditional gaming, I don't think big leaps are over. Most folks don't seem to be thinking about the possibilities of having a SSD as a standard that is being designed around and are just sticking to thinking about basic load times. I think there are going to be some games doing some mindblowing shit that wouldn't have been possible due to HDD.
I do see 10th gen (PS6 or whatever) being a smaller leap than 9th gen, but do figure that due to the way things go, that there will have been some significant tech enhancement in time for 11th gen to have a significant leap again. We just don't know what it is yet. heck, maybe that significant jump could even show up in time for 10th gen and it does end up being a significant leap.
Even this leap for 9th gen with SSD was considered impossible by most at the start of this year.
If you're implying climate change will kill us all before that's possible, then yeah, I couldn't agree more.
Otherwise I think it will be and we'll look back on the games coming out now as being primitive, the same way we look at Pong now.
I have. It has a long way to go before it even comes close to being the way I want to play my games. I couldn't play that Playstation VR golf game for more than 15 minutes without having a massive headache and feeling like I was going to throw up.
That would be fixed next generation with high native refresh rates and varifocal displays. (At least for Oculus)
It's also very possible that it's already fixed for you and PSVR just didn't agree with you, but other headsets might.
I think there's a shit ton of room for improvement just in regular ass games -- particularly in the areas of animation, physics driven animation, and particle effects.
Particle effects have been largely the same in most games - even AAA games - for the past two decades. Just spawn a bunch of little graphics in sequence.
With the new generation of consoles I'm hoping to see strides in these areas, because they'll go a long way in making games truly feel different than they do now.
Particle effects have been largely the same in most games - even AAA games - for the past two decades. Just spawn a bunch of little graphics in sequence.
With the new generation of consoles I'm hoping to see strides in these areas, because they'll go a long way in making games truly feel different than they do now.
Yeah it's pretty much all incremental from here. I mean look at modern CG movies, which is what games will look like in a few generations. I'd say the noticeable leap from the PS2 generation to today is more drastic than going from PS4 games to Toy Story 4.
Of course not, I'm excited as fuck about the potential of raytracing. Still waiting on RTX 2.0 before I jump in.
VR is without question the future
in 200 years we'll be doing neural links and shit
That N64/Saturn/PS1 -> Dreamcast jump will never be repeated. You'll see things looking better, but looking at Naughty Dog games this gen one can only wonder how much better can a game look before it's completely meaningless
if you're disincluding games that will be playable on current hardware then you're revealing that you only care about technical leaps. Design is far more important. I don't feel like any of the PS4 gen's open worlds made other ones "obsolete". they were prettier and in many cases more dense, but "obsolete" is too strong a word. Design is more important, and design for that genre is still pretty stagnant.
Design leaps will continue, and technical leaps will become more invisible and nuts and bolts, as they should be. I don't want to be thinking so deeply about tech as a player of games in 50 years. that shouldn't be what i'm concerned with as long as it's working.
Tech wise it's possibld but will become less common. With the level of HW we now have though I think there is room for massive leaps in game design.
This is the stupidest thread I've ever seen. Yeah, they'll get better. Like, in 1992, nobody knew what the Internet was. Something will happen than changes the game. Always does.
This but unironically. VR atm feels fucking shit to me, just feeling the controller in my hands fully takes me out of it. I wanna be able to see, hear, feel, smell, taste, everything in VR.
You won't feel the Index controller that easily compared to others. Try that if you can.
Also, if you're holding something, a controller isn't going to take you out of it easily at all.
But that's the thing. It's all fragmented into pieces and to get all of that into on thing isn't going to be cheap considering stuff like the valve index is over 1000 dollars lol.
I've played: Super Hot, Beat Saber, Skyrim, Ever Space, Red Out, Project Cars 2, Asseto Corsa Copetizione, Gun Club, Fruit Ninja, VR Kanojo, and 4-5 other viveport games. I've done 6k 360 VR video and used a few VR applications that make virtual big screens and stuff. I have to still try VR Chat and I've been recommended Sprint Vector which I want to try too. I am open to recommendations as I've tried the games I have right now from that.
I think in 10 years its something that will be much more refined which is what I did mention that it will get a lot easier to use. I do not have as much faith as you do in that in 10 years all of it will be cheap and working exactly as advertised because even as it VR still has issues with basic stuff like mirrors even when its supposed to have solved that problem. Stuff like the oculus quest also has tracking issues currently which I do think will iron out but i think in 10 years that's when VR will just begin to look more cohesive. Just because there's a bunch of good ideas in a room doesn't mean it will come to consumers in a viable package that people will latch onto anytime soon. High Definition televisions were around in concept for a long time before people actually started using them commonly in their home. VR has been around for a long time too and its still considered early lol. It'll get there eventually but I think it'll take a while and in addition to that even with all those things i've mentioned I'd still want to play games in a regular way. I'd do both, but that's just my personal opinion.
great post
same here tbh, bought a PSVR black friday, played many games, got an Aim Controller but after playing 14days i wasn´t impressed anymore and all the bad things like low resolution got to me. as a wearer of glasses it is also stupid to wear a device with no implemented vision correcting or automatic IPD settings. i always had the feeling that i don´t have glasses on my nose when using it. this thing can´t be good for anyones eyes in the long term.
i´ve sold my PSVR, Aim Controller and the rest and i am happy that i´ve still got a good price for it. i don´t miss it in any way but i am happy that i could test it thoroughly
later i´ve played a Vive from a friend and i wasn´t impressed at all anymore.
in short, the sense of presence is good, the tech itself not, it is far from being great. and i also don´t think this will ever replace normal gaming in any way. it can coexist with traditional gaming, it can deliver neat experiences but the whole talk of "VR is next level gaming" is silly and overblown
maybe someday i will return to it when they have 4k displays, no wires and there is a lot more good(!) software available, till then it is "pancake gaming" for me, because that is what i really love ;-)
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I think next gen consoles could get very close to that.
Unfortunately it will be a very long time until Nintendo gets to that power level.
I have six VR headsets. I love it. Everyone I let it try out loves it. Nobody goes out to buy one afterwards. It's a great novelty, but that's it. And I can't see that change anytime soon, most people don't really want to be in VR outside of the occasional theme park experience. And that's okay, I will just buy six more in the next ten years.
OP
OP
That's your personal bubble though. Things can change very quickly from person to person and headset to headset. Selling someone on the spot anything that isn't an Oculus Quest is tough because it requires commitment to owning another device.
Otherwise I've seen many people sell lots of others on a Quest on the spot.
All you have to look at for affordable options is where Oculus Quest and headsets like it will be in 10 years. The leaps will be profound in all areas even for standalones.
Well, that goes without saying. But Daydream is dead, Gear VR is dead, Windows MR is dead, HTC who knows, Valve Index was never going to be it. It's currently contracting, not expanding. Nothing wrong with that, it was probably going to be just Oculus from the start after the Facebook takeover, now it's time for the next big thing. Could be just the trough of disillusionment. Could also be a "yeah this was a cool gimmick, time for something else". But like the previous three times VR was going to break through, I don't think this will be it chief. Maybe ten years from now. Maybe it will always stay that gimmick. The most important thing here is that we have a sort of consumer enough niche to keep us happy.
We're at the time where certain platforms don't make it. This is entirely normal for any technology which I think you get anyway. Daydream and Gear VR were obviously dead-ends, and everyone knew that. Windows MR was mostly a lack of marketing - Microsoft have never been good at marketing hardware outside of PCs.
The market is expanding in the right areas. Standalones are now becoming more prominent, and the high-end space is still seeing new hardware releases.
There were no 3 previous times by the way. The one and only time before now where VR was marketed towards consumers was in the 90s. Anything prior to that was strictly enterprise.
All the big companies investing in VR hardware are still pushing it - yes even Google, even Samsung, even Microsoft whose platforms are dying and/or not retaining good market share. Of the three, Samsung has plenty of hardware releases in the near-future lined up. The other two are focusing on software in the nearer term.
Big leaps come when technology that previously wasn't consumer ready have whatever breakthrough in design or manufacturing that it can be implemented on a large scale, or if something new in design is created. If we aren't counting VR, I'm not confident there will be a significant improvement in the games we play, just more convenient options such as streaming.
