Do you think devs should be good at playing their games? (Diablo 4 vid inside)

[Radec]

Diablo 4 has been in a hot seat lately due to their season 1 patch that basically nerfed everything on the game to slow players down. They reverted back some of these and buffed some classes and mob density.


View: https://youtu.be/4-G3j00RQ1U

So Blizzard released a video of 2 devs playing Diablo 4 and it's getting alot of scrutiny and backlash as it was like played by someone new to the game. Dev is playing a lvl 50 barbarian, on the easiest world tier, not using the skills properly, just attacking randomly.

Even as for PR purpose this doesn't go well for them.

Do you think devs should be good at playing their games?

Edit: To be more clear , devs that design combats, boss fights, maps, skills/skill trees, mobs, mob affixes, level difficulties, should be good(not esports level or platinum level gamers) at playing their game.

Obviously game designers/artists/sound designers/writers are not expected to be good or even play the game

 

[Osu 16 Bit]

No. That's ridiculous.

 

[Fat4all]

...no?

 

[Bentendo24]

You lied op. No video

Edit: nvm there it is

 

[Pirateluigi]

Of course not

 

[PlanetSmasher]

"Devs" are not a monolith. Every single person working on a game should not be expected to be a pro-level no-lifer expert in their own game.

 

[Samaritan]

Of course not, why should they be? I think maybe the only exception to this would be if the lead combat designer of a game were bad at their own combat. That'd definitely cause me to raise an eyebrow.

 

[stopmrdomino]

reminds me of gamergate talking points

 

[Katbobo]

No, that wouldn't make any sense. If someone is part of the dev team and then end up not being good at the game after it's made, do they get fired? How do you ensure that people will have the skillset to be good at it? How do you avoid the various issues like someone didn't grow up playing games so isn't as adept at them, or doesn't have the time to play them much, or flat out isn't good at games, or has a disability?

It'd be an absurd thing to expect and would be shitty on top of it.

 

[carlsojo]

Really depends what area they are serving. Sound design probably does not need to git gud.

 

[Slayven]

No. That's ridiculous.

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Yeah, it is a crazy notion. Do F1 Engineers make the best drivers?

 

[Rosebud]

Lol no. And people criticizing the devs here are manchildren

 

[Ashes of Dreams]

I mean that depends on what position the dev is. If it's someone who designed the combat encounters or battle system, yeah they should have an understanding of what they built enough to not hit the wrong buttons. But if it's someone who wasn't doing that specific sort of thing, nah. I didn't watch the full video but their titles are a little vague so I'm not sure but it doesn't sound like they were the "combat" team specifically.

 

[Buttonbasher]

Really depends what area they are serving. Sound design probably does not need to git gud.

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I'm a sound designer (for film not games) and I'm terrible at games (and at watching films honestly)

 

[Slayven]

I'm a sound designer (for film not games) and I'm terrible at games (and at watching films honestly)

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Honestly knowing when to drop a fat beat is more important

 

[Gavalanche]

I have a few developer friends, one of them doesn't even really play games at all, it's just a job to them.

 

[Pascal]

No? Weird ass thread.

 

[Dyno]

No. If anything I'd say maybe you want some skilled players in the QA team, but even then you also want bad players too ideally so you can capture an idea of the various player skill levels and issues they may run into

 

[Wrestleman]

No, and as a dev myself I despise the bullshit narrative that this video is fostering towards the people making this game

 

[Buttonbasher]

Honestly knowing when to drop a fat beat is more important

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Adding that to my resume, brb

 

[Fat4all]

i worked at dunkin donuts for a few years and let me tell you, the novelty of donuts wore off after like 2 days

 

[pioneer]

I would expect if they're a designer involved in combat and such they will be. Everyone at the company? Hell no. That being said, for videos like this it does make more sense to have people playing who are at least decent at the game

 

[Senator Toadstool]

no because they're not all doing the same thing that requires them to "get good." people doing balancing should understand ALL play levels or have one at each that understands how people are experiencing their games though

No. If anything I'd say maybe you want some skilled players in the QA team, but even then you also want bad players too ideally so you can capture an idea of the various player skill levels and issues they may run into

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yes! as a "bad player" (I often play games more for the native and exploration than "mastering combat" ) I'd want someone to understand how people play the game like me and don't spend more than the lower end of HLtB and rarely if ever are completionists. Does that need to be the major focus of every game, but big games like diablo that aren't just going after Hardcore gamers I think its pretty important to understand

 

[Slayven]

i worked at dunkin donuts for a few years and let me tell you, the novelty of donuts wore off after like 2 days

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I worked at a pizza joint, after a week I thought i would never enjoy pizza again. For a while the smell of anything doughy or bread like made me queasy

 

[HockeyBird]

No, why you all got to be weird?

For this video specifically, is the gameplay even the main point? I only skimmed through but it just seems like it's some devs having a casual conservation while some of their gameplay is shown on screen. You don't need to be in super gamer mode at all times.

 

[Fat4all]

I worked at a pizza joint, after a week I thought i would never enjoy pizza again. For a while the smell of anything doughy or bread like made me queasy

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my oldest sister has sworn off olive garden for life after working there a single summer

 

[KarmaCow]

Even if it was ostensibly someone that should know what they're doing like someone in charge of balance, it's a stupid idea to have devs playing and talking about the game at the same time. It's especially dumb to do this after trying to introduce nerfs across the board because the game was supposedly not challenging enough.

Record or bring in the QA testers playing the game and have people talk over it. The Mortal Kombat Kasts are a good example of how to do it.

 

[EvaUnit787]

Seeing that some game get taken well beyond some devs even imagined, I'd say no.

I like watching some of those IGN videos where devs watch someone speedrun/break their game and it is fun. It is clear in a lot of cases they didn't even expect it.

I love games that allow you freedom like that to bend the limits of the gameloop/engine.

 

[BabyDontHurtMe]

No, I couldn't care less because I would most likely suck at the game myself. If anything it makes it look more realistic and less scripted. I prefer game devs to play their games poorly honestly. Gamer outrage be damned!

 

[Perfect Chaos]

Generally, no.

For very specific disciplines, it's probably very useful if they are, but there's an entire skillset adjacent to just being good at the game they're making that's much more important.

 

[Fat4all]

Even if it was ostensibly someone that should know what they're doing like someone in charge of balance, it's a stupid idea to have devs playing and talking about the game at the same time. It's especially dumb to do this after trying to introduce nerfs across the board because the game was supposedly not challenging enough.

Record or bring in the QA testers playing the game and have people talk over it. The Mortal Kombat Kasts are a good example of how to do it.

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yea this is another good point

trying to talk long form while playing a game fucking sucks for anyone who hasnt been "Let's Playing" since 2012

 

[Desma]

Isn't Miyazaki not good at Dark Souls? lol

Definitely no need for that, everyone's good at their own thing

 

[DoctorChimp]

I'm a little confused at the responses in this thread. Why would a sound designer be showcasing combat? Whatever dev is playing the game, has to at some level be involved in the gameplay development. Either way, if you're going to showcase something gameplay related you should have a basic understanding of the mechanics and how things function. Otherwise, things like this will happen.

So yes, people working on anything gameplay related should be playing their own game and have some kind of knowledge on how to play.

 

[Pyro]

Not at all.

And is it just me, or does there seem to be a sharp divide between devs either being godlike or terrible at their games?

 

[fracas]

no ofc not, that's insane

this is just another way for dumbass gamers to be mad because reasons

 

[Slayven]

my oldest sister has sworn off olive garden for life after working there a single summer

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Yeah, some jobs change you. Every time i got ready for work and on the ride there i heard "Fortunate Son" in my head

 

[Crossing Eden]

"Devs" are not a monolith. Every single person working on a game should not be expected to be a pro-level no-lifer expert in their own game.

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Say it again for the people in the back please.

"Devs" are not a monolith. Every single person working on a game should not be expected to be a pro-level no-lifer expert in their own game.

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Thank you.

I'm a little confused at the responses in this thread. Why would a sound designer be showcasing combat? Whatever dev is playing the game, has to at some level be involved in the gameplay development. Either way, if you're going to showcase something gameplay related you should have a basic understanding of the mechanics and how things function. Otherwise, things like this will happen.

So yes, people working on anything gameplay related should be playing their own game and have some kind of knowledge on how to play.

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Literally one of the current most revered game developers of our time is not good at his own games, as he quite genuinely has a personal policy to not play them. I'll let you guess who that is based on the following quote that's said frequently by fans of his work, "Git gud."

People have lives and other hobbies besides gaming even if they work in the gaming industry. It's only a bad image to people terminally online enough to get bothered by a person not being pro or even average skill level wise while playing a video game.

 

[Fat4all]

Isn't Miyazaki not good at Dark Souls? lol

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yeah, it was either that or he said he's not a fan of games like souls games, i forget

think it was an Edge interview

 

[J.T]

Yes they should be good enough, not awful at least.

 

[NinjaScooter]

Games of this scale are made by hundreds if not thousands of people with all sorts of differing skill sets and job duties. Capital G gamers continue to be the worst.

 

[subpar spatula]

I would say in general, yes. Do you need to be pro? No, but adequate enough that if you are going to put out a video you aren't really bad at the game.

 

[Crossing Eden]

I would say in general, yes. Do you need to be pro? No, but adequate enough that if you are going to put out a video you aren't really bad at the game.

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There are years worth of BGS3 livestreams where the developers got their asses kicked and that's perfectly fine.

 

[Risitas]

No, but if their job is to balance a competitive multiplayer game they should at least understand it and it often means being decent at the game
For example, a hardstuck bronze/silver should not be able to make balancing decision in League of Legends

 

[dark494]

If you're making videos or streams for the public, or making gameplay & balance decisions, you definitely need to yes, or at minimum have dedicated teams closely tied to them that focus on doing just that. That is exactly how SE does their development of battle content.

 

[subpar spatula]

There are years worth of BGS3 livestreams where the developers got their asses kicked and that's perfectly fine.

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Ok? I said adequate. I never said you have to be able to speedrun it and never fail. Miyazaki may suck at his own games, but I don't think he would be any worse than the average player.

 

[Rosebud]

No, but if their job is to balance a competitive multiplayer game they should at least understand it and it often means being decent at the game
An hardstuck bronze/silver should not be able to make balancing decision in League of Legends for example

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Games with tons of "casuals" probably need people bad at the game to give opinions, otherwise engagement would suck

 

[Fat4all]

ok ive been watching the video and it seems fine?

like normal level play?

 

[Crossing Eden]

Ok? I said adequate. I never said you have to be able to speedrun it and never fail.

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I don't recall saying that they played adequately. 🤷‍♂️

No, but if their job is to balance a competitive multiplayer game they should at least understand it and it often means being decent at the game
For example, a hardstuck bronze/silver should not be able to make balancing decision in League of Legends

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I'm gonna blow your mind but, game design as it pertains to game balance is not directly related to how good a person is at video games. If it was up to pro gamers than EVO players would dominate the fighting game development scene instead of...actual game developers. Like do you think "Has a Platinum rank in SFV" is something game devs put on their resume when applying for Capcom's SFVI team?

 

[DoctorChimp]

Literally one of the current most revered game developers of our time is not good at his own games, as he quite genuinely has a personal policy to not play them. People have lives and other hobbies besides gaming even if they work in the gaming industry. It's only a bad image to people terminally online enough to get bothered by a person not being a pro while playing a video game.

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Are you talking about Miyazaki? Do you even know what he does? He does not develop gameplay systems. He creates the story, aesthetic designs, overall direction of the game. He's akin to a film director. He doesn't touch or work on gameplay, he leaves that to his team that he trusts and gives autonomy to.

So that is fine. I wouldn't expect him to know how to play and I wouldn't expect him to showcase a gameplay system to his fans. He would leave that to someone who knows how to play.

 

[FellowTarnished]

All devs? No. But I definitely think that it's good if some of the team are actually good at the game and completing end-game content.