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Oct 25, 2017
4,752
Norman, OK
Don't quite understand the fake outcry from the far right that the media is somehow guilty of dereliction of duty by covering ongoing legal suits filed by and against a sitting President involving a former porn star and Playboy model involving hush money over tawdry, extramarital sex. This would have dominated the news cycle at any point since the dawn of cable news, regardless of who the President involved was. To expect or demand otherwise is a goofy notion, at best.
 

FullMetalx

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
811
Don't quite understand the fake outcry from the far right that the media is somehow guilty of dereliction of duty by covering ongoing legal suits filed by and against a sitting President involving a former porn star and Playboy model involving hush money over tawdry, extramarital sex. This would have dominated the news cycle at any point since the dawn of cable news, regardless of who the President involved was. To expect or demand otherwise is a goofy notion, at best.

It's more about the media seemingly trying to appear outraged when in reality they're loving this. I mean cable was trending down for a while but then they found out outrage would get people to turn on their tv again
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,752
Norman, OK
It's more about the media seemingly trying to appear outraged when in reality they're loving this. I mean cable was trending down for a while but then they found out outrage would get people to turn on their tv again

The media? Loving a juicy Presidential scandal? Enjoying increased viewership? Those slimy devils.

You're basically shaking your fist at the sun and cursing it for being so damn bright. I mean- you're right: it is bright. But you're not exactly pointing out a new phenomenon, here.
 

FullMetalx

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
811
The media? Loving a juicy Presidential scandal? Enjoying increased viewership? Those slimy devils.

You're basically shaking your fist at the sun and cursing it for being so damn bright. I mean- you're right: it is bright. But you're not exactly pointing out a new phenomenon, here.

Just trying to point out an example of a group of people who are not actually living in "horror" even though they're trying hard to look like it
 

Powdered Egg

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
17,070
But they're still sacrifices because America elected someone who has already devastated American lives in the last 14 months, going by your "silver lining".

Voting has consequences.

For fuck sake's "and some are good people" should have been the end of him.
In a decent society that would have tanked his campaign lol. I'm not happy he was elected and Hillary should have won the general. We have the clown we have and as bad as it is at least he is not competent. Maybe I am being too optimistic in my 'silver lining' but I hope Republicans will feel the blowback at the polls for years to come.
 

PhoenixDark

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,089
White House
Guess what also is a felony? About 12 things Trump has done. Again, double standards, what are they?

Also, Trump and his wife sleep in separate rooms. If you think he's not adulterying in the oval office right now you're hopelessly naive.

Why are you comparing alleged crimes (Trump) with actual crimes that were proven/convicted (Clinton)? Clinton was not convicted for having sex as you initially claimed. He was convicted for lying under oath.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,752
Norman, OK
Just trying to point out an example of a group of people who are not actually living in "horror" even though they're trying hard to look like it

I wouldn't get too fussed up about it. No reason why it should affect your day-to-day existence. "How does Anderson Cooper really feel about this on the inside?" Who gives a shit? Ya' gotta' let the small things go, sometimes.

It would also probably be a good time to point out that this is what happens when you elect a doofus who's made a lifetime of bad, trashy decisions to the highest office of the United States. The last time that was the case, it was the 90's. There was no social media yet- but Whitewater, Gennifer Flowers, Paula Jones, Monica Lewinski: those stories absolutely dominated the news cycle in the 90's to the highest extent possible at the time. There's nothing new here. This is how this shit works.
 

Deleted member 9986

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,248
The media is at fault for focusing on scandals instead of policy analysis (tbf I do have a ranged look at things). However, I think the Democratic party not having a good alternative is also a factor.

All in all an approval rating above 40% for the shit fest that is the Trump f̶a̶m̶i̶l̶y̶ admin is mind boggling. In a functioning political system no president that fails to appoint hundreds of positions should get such an approval rating. He is literally not doing his job.
 

Jon Carter

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,746
It's shameful how high it is. François Hollande got to 4%. I don't think eating a baby on live TV would get Trump that rating.
 

Sephzilla

Herald of Stoptimus Crime
Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,493
Clinton having sex with someone who worked for him in the Oval Office and lying about it is different then Trump having sex with someone as a private citizen. I don't agree with Trump's actions if they are true, but in my eyes that is between him and his wife.
What Clinton did wasn't actually illegal though.

What Trump did is.
 

Kin5290

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,390
This is nonsense fake news.

1) Pay attention to polling averages, not individual polls.

2) The Real Clear Politics polling average has bounced around plus or minus two points around 40% since last year.
 

Lord Brady

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
8,392
I think it's more that people have a stereotypical view that every republican is a Jesus freak.
When you act holier-than-thou about everything the filthy liberals are doing, and then you ignore all the shit your own party is doing, you deserve to be called out for being immoral shitheads. But it's nice to see that the Repubs and their religious leaders have forfeited the moral high ground.
 
Oct 28, 2017
2,719
Siloam Springs
hae0SR9.png


As a Democrat I get the impression none of you care about any of the "values" your party still continues to claim to uphold, so that apathy is understandable. I can appreciate the farce is beginning to end.

They care about the "right" families having "lot's o money."

They don't care that daddy and wife number eleven are getting divorced. It just means more gifts/money for their empty souls.
 

jett

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,696
Yeah this stupid focus on Stormy Daniels is playing right into Trump's hand. So ridiculous.
I don't know about "playing into Trump's hand" but I agree it's not something his base was ever going to care about. They didn't care about the "grab 'em by the pussy" comment, why would they care about this?
 

TheGhost

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,137
Long Island
Trump is the greatest thing to happen to the media, the people who run these networks don't want to see that viewership numbers go down.

People are happy with their extra $100+ per paycheck.

They are probably sick of the words Mueller, stormy, russia, Putin

I wouldn't be surprised to see it reach 50% The constant attacks will either backfire or people will probably start changing the channel (which is when the TV execs will go into panic mode)
 

Br3wnor

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,982
He is getting elected again in 2020.

All depends on the economy. If that starts to dip in the next few years his numbers are going to crater, until then he'll hover around the 40's, which I agree could be enough to get him a win in 2020 especially if the blue wave falls short and he's able to pass more legislation in 2018-2020 that saps enthusiasm from Democrats.
 

Geirskogul

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,022
Maybe the Dems should stop screaming about Russia 100% of the time and actually focus on the real damage he is doing to the country while providing their own solutions and alternatives. Maybe.
 

Dehnus

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
1,900
Take a deep breath, y'all. Eyes focused.

There will be a lot to do this Autumn.
Not much to do, it's quite easy.
Get of your arse, and vote! That is all there is to it.
Granted there are those for whom voting is hard in the USA, due to redistricting and trying to keep people from voting. But most of you guys can just get up and vote. So that's all there is to it. It's very simply isn't it :).
 

Deleted member 11093

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,095
Americans will learn nothing from this, another person who's far worse and more destructive than Trump will probably win the next election.
Country's fucked.
 

Skinny Pete

Member
Nov 2, 2017
2,444
I am interested in who is going to oppose this asshole in 2020. I know it's still early but WaPo has the 3 most likely candidates as Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren (who says she isn't running) and Joe Biden. I am not very excited for any of them, but of course they would get my vote over Dotard.
 

1.21Gigawatts

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,278
Munich
I'm most worried about dems finding leadership who provides a much more appealing alternative. Sounds like it would be easy but it actually isn't.

I think thats it. To really get people to abandon Trump, democrats need to offer an appealing alternative. So people can unite behind a candidate and behind ideas, instead of just being united in their hatred for Trump.

I can already see Republicans swooping in a moderate republican for 2020, while Democrats have spent years with their anti-Trump messaging... and whoops, another Republican president is elected.


-A constitutional amendment to get money out of politics + campaign finance reform.
-Voting law reform to implement a proportional system. Every vote counts the same, no more gerrymandering, no more winner takes all.
-Universal healthcare.
-Educational reform: Reforming everything from Kindergarden to College, making it free for everyone.
-Introducing a secondary way of education next to university, more practically focussed. Something along the lines of a comprehensive partially publicly funded and controlled apprenticeship system.(Something many corporations have been asking for for years)
-A major push towards unionization. Ideally a constitutional amendment ensuring every workers right to unionize and strike. Instead of having to fight over every single aspect of workers rights individually, just give workers the means to fight for themselves.
-A true push for environmental protection and green energy. Including ending all fossil fuel subsidies(necessarily in line with retraining programs in affected areas).
-Repealing the second amendment in order to be able to implement proper healthcare

Like, I'd expect a candidate to tick all of these boxes, but I'd be happy to find one who just ticks half.
 

Pwnz

Member
Oct 28, 2017
14,279
Places
Maybe after a trade war induced recession and tireless Stormy news he'll get below Bush ratings. As bad as Bush was, Trump is worse.
 

Pwnz

Member
Oct 28, 2017
14,279
Places
All depends on the economy. If that starts to dip in the next few years his numbers are going to crater, until then he'll hover around the 40's, which I agree could be enough to get him a win in 2020 especially if the blue wave falls short and he's able to pass more legislation in 2018-2020 that saps enthusiasm from Democrats.

I agree. Right now there's a chance he get reelected. Once the polls start reflecting mass losses in retirement funds, working families with kids and houses realize they have a 1k to 3k tax hike, there is no way in hell he would get reelected. That's even assuming he manages to avoid indictments.
 
Oct 27, 2017
796
I seem to remember family values being a major cornerstone of the party for quite a few years during the Lewinsky ordeal.



Also, a poll is a poll. Don't read too much into any individual poll like the OP has. Today there is a poll out that he is at 39%.

that happened in the Oval Office while he was a sitting President. Then he lied about it. Not nearly the same thing at all. But I will admit the "party of family values" turning a blind eye to his past indiscretions is comical.

True that about polls. I'll never believe polls again after laughably getting it so wrong in the 2016 election.
 
Oct 30, 2017
4,190
Amazing what can happen if you single out a poll. New "highs" in one yesterday, new "lows" in one from today.

Donald Trump has one of the worst approval ratings we've found for him since he took office this month, with only 39% of voters approving of the job he's doing to 54% who disapprove. 54% of voters wish Barack Obama was still President, to only 40% who are glad that Trump is.

https://www.publicpolicypolling.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/PPP_Release_National_32718.pdf
 

Edigar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
352
Brazil
I think thats it. To really get people to abandon Trump, democrats need to offer an appealing alternative. So people can unite behind a candidate and behind ideas, instead of just being united in their hatred for Trump.

I can already see Republicans swooping in a moderate republican for 2020, while Democrats have spent years with their anti-Trump messaging... and whoops, another Republican president is elected.


-A constitutional amendment to get money out of politics + campaign finance reform.
-Voting law reform to implement a proportional system. Every vote counts the same, no more gerrymandering, no more winner takes all.
-Universal healthcare.
-Educational reform: Reforming everything from Kindergarden to College, making it free for everyone.
-Introducing a secondary way of education next to university, more practically focussed. Something along the lines of a comprehensive partially publicly funded and controlled apprenticeship system.(Something many corporations have been asking for for years)
-A major push towards unionization. Ideally a constitutional amendment ensuring every workers right to unionize and strike. Instead of having to fight over every single aspect of workers rights individually, just give workers the means to fight for themselves.
-A true push for environmental protection and green energy. Including ending all fossil fuel subsidies(necessarily in line with retraining programs in affected areas).
-Repealing the second amendment in order to be able to implement proper healthcare

Like, I'd expect a candidate to tick all of these boxes, but I'd be happy to find one who just ticks half.

Welcome to Venezuela.
 

UberTag

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
15,517
Kitchener, ON
Americans will learn nothing from this, another person who's far worse and more destructive than Trump will probably win the next election.
Country's fucked.
Americans won't learn from this... but you'd better believe that the rest of the world is.
(At least in terms of not trusting America. They'll still let the Russians and alt-right movements fuck up their own countries.)

I am interested in who is going to oppose this asshole in 2020. I know it's still early but WaPo has the 3 most likely candidates as Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren (who says she isn't running) and Joe Biden. I am not very excited for any of them, but of course they would get my vote over Dotard.
Bernie and Biden are older than Trump and/or suck. Warren isn't running. So yeah, no wonder folks aren't excited about rallying behind a Democrat right now.
 
Oct 30, 2017
4,190
I think thats it. To really get people to abandon Trump, democrats need to offer an appealing alternative. So people can unite behind a candidate and behind ideas, instead of just being united in their hatred for Trump.

I can already see Republicans swooping in a moderate republican for 2020, while Democrats have spent years with their anti-Trump messaging... and whoops, another Republican president is elected.


-A constitutional amendment to get money out of politics + campaign finance reform.
-Voting law reform to implement a proportional system. Every vote counts the same, no more gerrymandering, no more winner takes all.
-Universal healthcare.
-Educational reform: Reforming everything from Kindergarden to College, making it free for everyone.
-Introducing a secondary way of education next to university, more practically focussed. Something along the lines of a comprehensive partially publicly funded and controlled apprenticeship system.(Something many corporations have been asking for for years)
-A major push towards unionization. Ideally a constitutional amendment ensuring every workers right to unionize and strike. Instead of having to fight over every single aspect of workers rights individually, just give workers the means to fight for themselves.
-A true push for environmental protection and green energy. Including ending all fossil fuel subsidies(necessarily in line with retraining programs in affected areas).
-Repealing the second amendment in order to be able to implement proper healthcare

Like, I'd expect a candidate to tick all of these boxes, but I'd be happy to find one who just ticks half.

Are you saying these are things you want someone to support or something they should spend time and energy trying to actually pursue? Because what you're describing (constitutional amendments) would require support from Republicans.

Needless to say, you're living in fantasy land.
 

Baji Boxer

Chicken Chaser
Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,395
I think it's more that people have a stereotypical view that every republican is a Jesus freak.
That's what you vote for and influences the platform. Also not surprised that Republicans don't understand the illegality of what was done, and more serious claims around the incident. Calling coverage of it unimportant tabloid nonsense is just stupidity.
 
Oct 28, 2017
233
Despite our discoveries of fake news, there's very little countering it or any initiative to clamp down on it. That doesn't surprise me.
 

1.21Gigawatts

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,278
Munich
Welcome to Venezuela.

I'd expect a nonsensical response like that from the usual right wingers from Twitter...
All the things I described are reality in Europe and fix distinct problems the US is having.
I don't know how you came to the conclusion that these things have anything to do with Venezuela.

Are you saying these are things you want someone to support or something they should spend time and energy trying to actually pursue? Because what you're describing (constitutional amendments) would require support from Republicans.

All these things are common sense solutions to problems the US is facing.
They are also tried ad tested solutions, since they are implemented basically everywhere in the developed world.

Lets go through them:
-The first one is obvious. The US is supposed to be a democracy, but unfortunate supreme court ruling allow a massive influence of money on politics. Analysis shows that legislation doesn't follow majority opinion but mainly big money interests => Oligarchy.
People on both sides of the isle should have a major interest in ending that system.
-The second is obvious, too. Every vote should count the same. Proportional systems are much fairer and more democratic than what the US has.
Since a proportional system would end the two party system, though, I guess it needs someone in charge who truly puts country before party.
-I'll do the next two in one swoop. Healthcare and education are two of the main indicators of success in life. A modern society should make sure that every citizen has free access to the same high quality healthcare and education. Thats common sense pretty much everywhere except in the US.
-The secondary way of education is a rather specific thing. The US labor markets problem isn't that not enough jobs are available, but that not enough adequately educated people are available: The skills gap. Since post-industrial societies usually just need around 30% of the workforce to be college educated there isn't much room for improvement on that front. So the solution has to be a secondary way of education. This would also help future proof the labor market against outsourcing and automation.
Its beyond me how American government can think that a laughable high school degree can be enough for 70% of their citizens. That maybe was enough back in the 50s and 60s, but in todays globalized world where workers compete on a global level, where they compete with machines, soon AI, a fucking high school degree won't be enough.
-Unionization is also kinda obvious. Workers should have the right organize and represent their interests. The US needs to snap out of its bizzarro world where its multi billions dollar corporation's constitutional right to bribe politicians but workers can't even band together to demand higher wages and better working conditions. In Germany the law requires half of every larger* companies board to be filled with workers. And in the US most workers aren't even allowed to unionize? This isn't reasonable and Americans need to recognize this.
*upwards of 200 employees.
-Environmental protection should be obvious as well. If fossil fuel companies can't bribe politicians anymore nothing stands in the way of a proper green energy push. Given that climate change will be the biggest humanitarian crises humanity has ever faced we should do all we can to limit its destructive impact.
-Lastly, gun control: I don't believe proper gun control laws are possible as long as the second amendment is in place, so it needs to be repealed.
Currently there is 10.000-15.000 gun deaths a year in the US, not counting suicides. Based on European numbers adjusted for population size that number should decrease to below 300 if the US would implement proper gun control. Personally I think this is the least important issue of all the ones I touched on. Americans will have to decide whether saving 10.000-15.000 lives annually is worth giving up their right to bear arms.

All this wouldn't even qualify as a leftist policy proposal in Europe. Thats just centrist. Thats the common ground between left and right.

Do you think any of these "demands" are unreasonable? And if so, why? They are all working solutions to actual problems the US is facing. Problems I haven't heard any American politician proposing any other realistic solutions to.



Needless to say, you're living in fantasy land.
Why? Why can't the US have what every other developed nation has?
I don't believe that there is some kind of inherent stupidity of the American people that prevents them from implementing sensible policy.




Also, I noticed a mistake in the last point.
Obviously the second amendment doesn't need to be repealed in order to implement proper healthcare but proper gun control.
 
Last edited:

UberTag

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
15,517
Kitchener, ON
Why? Why can't the US have what every other developed nation has?
I don't believe that there is some kind of inherent stupidity of the American people that prevents them from implementing sensible policy.
The main obstacle is the propaganda network known as Fox News. That and anyone bold and brave enough to put country above party to bring in non-inherently stupid practices that other developed nations enjoy would be assassinated by the oligarchs and made an example of. They have a vested interested in keeping America stunted and stupid. In fact, the global economy and reliance on the US dollar as the standard currency is predicated on that. The Russians aren't the only country laundering their money through the US. Everyone is.
 
Oct 30, 2017
4,190
I'd expect a nonsensical response like that from the usual right wingers from Twitter...
All the things I described are reality in Europe and fix distinct problems the US is having.
I don't know how you came to the conclusion that these things have anything to do with Venezuela.



All these things are common sense solutions to problems the US is facing.
They are also tried ad tested solutions, since they are implemented basically everywhere in the developed world.

Lets go through them:
-The first one is obvious. The US is supposed to be a democracy, but unfortunate supreme court ruling allow a massive influence of money on politics. Analysis shows that legislation doesn't follow majority opinion but mainly big money interests => Oligarchy.
People on both sides of the isle should have a major interest in ending that system.
-The second is obvious, too. Every vote should count the same. Proportional systems are much fairer and more democratic than what the US has.
Since a proportional system would end the two party system, though, I guess it needs someone in charge who truly puts country before party.
-I'll do the next two in one swoop. Healthcare and education are two of the main indicators of success in life. A modern society should make sure that every citizen has free access to the same high quality healthcare and education. Thats common sense pretty much everywhere except in the US.
-The secondary way of education is a rather specific thing. The US labor markets problem isn't that not enough jobs are available, but that not enough adequately educated people are available: The skills gap. Since post-industrial societies usually just need around 30% of the workforce to be college educated there isn't much room for improvement on that front. So the solution has to be a secondary way of education. This would also help future proof the labor market against outsourcing and automation.
Its beyond me how American government can think that a laughable high school degree can be enough for 70% of their citizens. That maybe was enough back in the 50s and 60s, but in todays globalized world where workers compete on a global level, where they compete with machines, soon AI, a fucking high school degree won't be enough.
-Unionization is also kinda obvious. Workers should have the right organize and represent their interests. The US needs to snap out of its bizzarro world where its multi billions dollar corporation's constitutional right to bribe politicians but workers can't even band together to demand higher wages and better working conditions. In Germany the law requires half of every larger* companies board to be filled with workers. And in the US most workers aren't even allowed to unionize? This isn't reasonable and Americans need to recognize this.
*upwards of 200 employees.
-Environmental protection should be obvious as well. If fossil fuel companies can't bribe politicians anymore nothing stands in the way of a proper green energy push. Given that climate change will be the biggest humanitarian crises humanity has ever faced we should do all we can to limit its destructive impact.
-Lastly, gun control: I don't believe proper gun control laws are possible as long as the second amendment is in place, so it needs to be repealed.
Currently there is 10.000-15.000 gun deaths a year in the US, not counting suicides. Based on European numbers adjusted for population size that number should decrease to below 300 if the US would implement proper gun control. Personally I think this is the least important issue of all the ones I touched on. Americans will have to decide whether saving 10.000-15.000 lives annually is worth giving up their right to bear arms.

All this wouldn't even qualify as a leftist policy proposal in Europe. Thats just centrist. Thats the common ground between left and right.

Do you think any of these "demands" are unreasonable? And if so, why? They are all working solutions to actual problems the US is facing. Problems I haven't heard any American politician proposing any other realistic solutions to.




Why? Why can't the US have what every other developed nation has?
I don't believe that there is some kind of inherent stupidity of the American people that prevents them from implementing sensible policy.




Also, I noticed a mistake in the last point.
Obviously the second amendment doesn't need to be repealed in order to implement proper healthcare but proper gun control.

All I can do is reiterate that you'd need Republican support for amendments to the Constitution. I didn't judge the quality of the proposals themselves.