Been a decade since DA was winning GotY awards and we are about to get a new game reveal. Time flies.
True. Though I really hope they're not tethered in any way to a specific console (eg. timed exclusives, exclusive promotions, etc...).
I doubt they will be but they don't need to have that stuff to be at their events. It'll just be a marketing deal.
They'll probably have a big showcase, like Fallout 4 or Starfield. Big, long, showing the gameplay and all. Then the occasional trailer showing a bit more until launch.
EA seems averse to spending much on marketing these days, which is probably why they don't have EA Plays anymore.
Yeah, I'm hoping they'll go this route.
(Ideally with at least a couple of weeks heads-up...)
They said they'll be showing gameplay this time, thankfully.
That's great to hear, I'm rooting for Bioware. If the companions are interesting and the story is good they should be set!
Slow pans over concept art and people working in the cubicle farm while a disembodied voice explains that, at BioWare, they've always cared about building rich worlds and characters you care about.
Y'all joke but four years ago we took what we could get and this video felt like a feast!
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acSr9Ki7P_w
It's going to be interesting to see how much of this actually ends up in the game. It's funny, actually, that the new combat system was right there in front of us and we just didn't notice.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acSr9Ki7P_w
It's going to be interesting to see how much of this actually ends up in the game. It's funny, actually, that the new combat system was right there in front of us and we just didn't notice.
That they seem to be very happy and in a good place with the game and that leadership has been actively working against crunching is really good to hear. I really want BioWare to get a big win here and have a great game for me to play, but I also want to know that BioWare themselves internally have been able to fix some of the problems that were plaguing them. So this news is quite reassuring.
It would suck to have another Inquisition situation where the game is good but the toll on the developers was tremendous and horrible. It will be worth the wait to get a great game and know that the developers didn't kill themselves to make it.
Can't wait to finally see what they cooked up for us. I don't want to get my hopes up too high but I would love for this to really do well and for the team to get this huge confidence boost, and hopefully recognition from higher ups at EA, to carry them into ME5.
It would suck to have another Inquisition situation where the game is good but the toll on the developers was tremendous and horrible. It will be worth the wait to get a great game and know that the developers didn't kill themselves to make it.
Can't wait to finally see what they cooked up for us. I don't want to get my hopes up too high but I would love for this to really do well and for the team to get this huge confidence boost, and hopefully recognition from higher ups at EA, to carry them into ME5.
Even if the game is great can we really call it a redemption story when they've already fired a bunch of the people who made it?
Like I might be a little bit of a broken record here but it's such a massive anchor weighing down any positivity I could feel about this.
There's still a huge team there making it...
Layoffs suck ass no matter who it is of course, but many there have been at the studio since DAO and pouring their all into the game.
I think it is dishonest to pretend like the situation at Bioware over the past few years has been normal. People come and go, layoffs happen, but it's been EXTREME at Bioware. They've been bleeding talent since they started Anthem and the people who actually stuck with them through all these years were rewarded with massive layoffs of legacy staff (including many of those there since DAO or before).
Like let's take that video posted earlier, from just four years ago.
Dragon Age 4 - Official Behind the Scenes Teaser Trailer | gamescom 2020
BioWare gives fans a behind the scenes first look at its upcoming Dragon Age game.Thanks for checking out gamescom 2020 on IGN. Be sure to visit IGN from Aug...
www.youtube.com
Surely if the video was just four years ago, most of these people are still working there, right?
Mark Darrah - Quit in 2020, Re-Hired as a Freelance Consultant in 2023
Graham Scott - Quit in 2021
Melissa Janowicz - Quit in 2020
Jon Renish - Laid off in 2023
Matthew Goldman - Left in 2021, not clear if quit or fired.
Esther Ko - Left in 2022, not clear if quit or fired
Luke Kristjanson - Laid off in 2023
Patrick Weekes - Still with Bioware! Has made it clear that the 2023 layoff killed morale though.
John Epler - Still with Bioware!
Jen Cheverie - Still with Bioware!
Sylvia Feketekuty - No confirmation if part of 2023 layoffs, will assume Still with Bioware.
Andre Garcia - Laid off in 2023
Katrina Barkwell - Still at Bioware!
And that's just the people from the video. I can think of a dozen more major names that were part of Dreadwolf that have quit or been fired, including more writers that had been there since DAO. And it's worth noting that the people who were laid off in 2023 weren't given proper compensation are are currently in the process of attempting legal action. The whole situation is fucked and it's hard to not view the game as tainted. Even IF Dreadwolf turns out great, by some miracle, we can't honestly say it'll be the same team moving forward to the next one.
I think the lesson is more that just because people were laid off, that doesn't invalidate the work of the people still there.I think it is dishonest to pretend like the situation at Bioware over the past few years has been normal. People come and go, layoffs happen, but it's been EXTREME at Bioware. They've been bleeding talent since they started Anthem and the people who actually stuck with them through all these years were rewarded with massive layoffs of legacy staff (including many of those there since DAO or before).
Like let's take that video posted earlier, from just four years ago.
Dragon Age 4 - Official Behind the Scenes Teaser Trailer | gamescom 2020
BioWare gives fans a behind the scenes first look at its upcoming Dragon Age game.Thanks for checking out gamescom 2020 on IGN. Be sure to visit IGN from Aug...
Surely if the video was just four years ago, most of these people are still working there, right?
Mark Darrah - Quit in 2020, Re-Hired as a Freelance Consultant in 2023
Graham Scott - Quit in 2021
Melissa Janowicz - Quit in 2020
Jon Renish - Laid off in 2023
Matthew Goldman - Left in 2021, not clear if quit or fired.
Esther Ko - Left in 2022, not clear if quit or fired
Luke Kristjanson - Laid off in 2023
Patrick Weekes - Still with Bioware! Has made it clear that the 2023 layoff killed morale though.
John Epler - Still with Bioware!
Jen Cheverie - Still with Bioware!
Sylvia Feketekuty - No confirmation if part of 2023 layoffs, will assume Still with Bioware.
Andre Garcia - Laid off in 2023
Katrina Barkwell - Still at Bioware!
And that's just the people from the video. I can think of a dozen more major names that were part of Dreadwolf that have quit or been fired, including more writers that had been there since DAO. And it's worth noting that the people who were laid off in 2023 weren't given proper compensation are are currently in the process of attempting legal action. The whole situation is fucked and it's hard to not view the game as tainted. Even IF Dreadwolf turns out great, by some miracle, we can't honestly say it'll be the same team moving forward to the next one.
They are still a studio with several hundread people.
I didn't say anyone's work is invalidated. But I find it hard to start cheering about "Bioware is back baby" when we're talking about a team that has gone through so many layoffs and walk outs that a video from a few years ago about "the people making Dreadwolf" is mostly filled with people no longer there.
And that justifies the layoffs or the poor management causing people to quit? Like I get it, I want to be hyped for Dreadwolf too. Dragon Age was a major passion of mine and I've been waiting a decade for this. But even if you ignore the people who were fired or quit and just look at the social media of the people STILL working there, you'll find them talking about or at least retweeting things about how tech layoffs kill morale and teams can never truly recover from them, or supporting the people currently trying to SUE the company they still work for because they know they got fucked over.
It's great hundreds of people still have a job there but that doesn't mean this situation is normal or praise-worthy. Things seem as fucked as ever over there.
I think it is dishonest to pretend like the situation at Bioware over the past few years has been normal. People come and go, layoffs happen, but it's been EXTREME at Bioware. They've been bleeding talent since they started Anthem and the people who actually stuck with them through all these years were rewarded with massive layoffs of legacy staff (including many of those there since DAO or before).
Like let's take that video posted earlier, from just four years ago.
Dragon Age 4 - Official Behind the Scenes Teaser Trailer | gamescom 2020
BioWare gives fans a behind the scenes first look at its upcoming Dragon Age game.Thanks for checking out gamescom 2020 on IGN. Be sure to visit IGN from Aug...
Surely if the video was just four years ago, most of these people are still working there, right?
Mark Darrah - Quit in 2020, Re-Hired as a Freelance Consultant in 2023
Graham Scott - Quit in 2021
Melissa Janowicz - Quit in 2020
Jon Renish - Laid off in 2023
Matthew Goldman - Left in 2021, not clear if quit or fired.
Esther Ko - Left in 2022, not clear if quit or fired
Luke Kristjanson - Laid off in 2023
Patrick Weekes - Still with Bioware! Has made it clear that the 2023 layoff killed morale though.
John Epler - Still with Bioware!
Jen Cheverie - Still with Bioware!
Sylvia Feketekuty - No confirmation if part of 2023 layoffs, will assume Still with Bioware.
Andre Garcia - Laid off in 2023
Katrina Barkwell - Still at Bioware!
And that's just the people from the video. I can think of a dozen more major names that were part of Dreadwolf that have quit or been fired, including more writers that had been there since DAO. And it's worth noting that the people who were laid off in 2023 weren't given proper compensation are are currently in the process of attempting legal action. The whole situation is fucked and it's hard to not view the game as tainted. Even IF Dreadwolf turns out great, by some miracle, we can't honestly say it'll be the same team moving forward to the next one.
My point is that there is still a large, hard working team making the game. It feels weird to just toss everything out the window because some on the team were unfortunately let go. I've been laid off myself from a studio just last year. It sucked, really bad. But it doesn't mean you can't be happy for the people still there if their work turns out great.
I'd be willing to bet you could dissect a bunch of studios across the indusry and see a lot of people leaving in the last 5 years and going elsewhere. It's not unique to Bioware.
Bioware's had issues obviously, because they've gone through tumultuous development cycles with their last few games. But even with that list of people in your post, there are dozens and dozens of employees that have been at Bioware for 10, 15, 20 years and are still there trying to make a great game. Layoffs suck, there's no other way to slice it. But I don't see how holding a grudge against the game and the team rectifies anything...
I think it is dishonest to pretend like the situation at Bioware over the past few years has been normal. People come and go, layoffs happen, but it's been EXTREME at Bioware. They've been bleeding talent since they started Anthem and the people who actually stuck with them through all these years were rewarded with massive layoffs of legacy staff (including many of those there since DAO or before).
Like let's take that video posted earlier, from just four years ago.
Dragon Age 4 - Official Behind the Scenes Teaser Trailer | gamescom 2020
BioWare gives fans a behind the scenes first look at its upcoming Dragon Age game.Thanks for checking out gamescom 2020 on IGN. Be sure to visit IGN from Aug...
Surely if the video was just four years ago, most of these people are still working there, right?
Mark Darrah - Quit in 2020, Re-Hired as a Freelance Consultant in 2023
Graham Scott - Quit in 2021
Melissa Janowicz - Quit in 2020
Jon Renish - Laid off in 2023
Matthew Goldman - Left in 2021, not clear if quit or fired.
Esther Ko - Left in 2022, not clear if quit or fired
Luke Kristjanson - Laid off in 2023
Patrick Weekes - Still with Bioware! Has made it clear that the 2023 layoff killed morale though.
John Epler - Still with Bioware!
Jen Cheverie - Still with Bioware!
Sylvia Feketekuty - No confirmation if part of 2023 layoffs, will assume Still with Bioware.
Andre Garcia - Laid off in 2023
Katrina Barkwell - Still at Bioware!
And that's just the people from the video. I can think of a dozen more major names that were part of Dreadwolf that have quit or been fired, including more writers that had been there since DAO. And it's worth noting that the people who were laid off in 2023 weren't given proper compensation are are currently in the process of attempting legal action. The whole situation is fucked and it's hard to not view the game as tainted. Even IF Dreadwolf turns out great, by some miracle, we can't honestly say it'll be the same team moving forward to the next one.
Kinda amazing that over half of the individuals featured in that video are no longer at BioWare. That's just not a good look no matter how you spin it.
No one said justifies, but they are still a large studio even if there has been a significant change over the years. Your point about the team moving forward at Bioware not being the same is not really an issue. The layoffs, poor management, and lack of compensation that led to those changes can be criticized of course, and I would not say otherwise.
There is no normal in the games industry, sadly, especially AAA. The entire industry is fucked in a lot of ways and needs a complete recalibration from top to bottom.
Again, who said anything about "tossing everything out the window"? What I said was I find it hard to celebrate this as a redemption arc for Bioware given how many people who made the game what it is have quit or been fired before it came out. Getting some strong "don't make me feel bad for being excited" vibes from some of these replies, but I'm not even trying to do that. I'll be playing Dreadwolf on release, been waiting too long to ignore it, but I'm talking about how the experience will be inherently tainted in some ways for me.
And I do still think it's a bit dishonest to try and paint this situation as normal. I don't think I've ever followed a game I was excited for where as many major roles have been replaced or seem this many people quitting or being let go. Like there's been a lot of layoffs over the past year and a half and maybe people are getting desensitized to it. But I have NEVER seen a project as cursed as this one. I'm sure there are some but I really don't think there's many games set to come out this year where you can point out quite as many high profile people leaving.
And yeah, there's still a big team there. And from what people like Patrick Weekes have implied, their morale is shattered and none of them are happy with the situation. That's what the people still there are saying. So I don't think I'm pulling this out of nothing.
I would say it is when some of the best writers and designers that have been there since DAO and stuck with the company through all the bullshit of the 2010s were fired before the game came out.
I dunno, it feels to me like some people are telling me not to criticize it, or that there is no reason to do so.
I think this is a very easy thing to say because yes of course the past year has been fucked for basically every company. But when I pinpoint a specific example of something that is egregiously worse than usual and has been since BEFORE this big wave of layoffs lately and the response I get is to tell me I'm wrong because there are still people working there, so it's totally fine and I shouldn't "throw everything out the window" it's like... come on.
I was absolutely sorry for the people that got laid off specially because it was messy in regards to their severance. But I'm sure most of the people that got laid off are still hoping the game is successful because they helped make it and because their colleagues that remained at BioWare will benefit greatly from it.
It's a redemption story for the creative people behind the game, not the corporation, even if the corporation stands to benefit from that redemption as well. And, to be honest, we don't know the whole story. I don't think the management at BioWare simply wanted to screw a bunch of their veterans over, and the fact these lay offs came right after EA Games and EA Sports became two different things suggests there was pressure from EA to make deep cuts. EA Games can't count on EA Sports money anymore.
So, yeah, I can be both hopeful for the studio, the IPs and the people who still work there while being aware of its shortcomings. And I will be celebrating their success if they pull it off. Because there has never been a worse time in the industry to launch a mediocre game, and BioWare is in a specially poor position to afford that. That number of laid off BioWare employees can quickly go from a few dozen to hundreds.
It's a redemption story for the creative people behind the game, not the corporation, even if the corporation stands to benefit from that redemption as well. And, to be honest, we don't know the whole story. I don't think the management at BioWare simply wanted to screw a bunch of their veterans over, and the fact these lay offs came right after EA Games and EA Sports became two different things suggests there was pressure from EA to make deep cuts. EA Games can't count on EA Sports money anymore.
So, yeah, I can be both hopeful for the studio, the IPs and the people who still work there while being aware of its shortcomings. And I will be celebrating their success if they pull it off. Because there has never been a worse time in the industry to launch a mediocre game, and BioWare is in a specially poor position to afford that. That number of laid off BioWare employees can quickly go from a few dozen to hundreds.
The loss of senior talent is not good, but realistically people in junior positions should rise to mid-level, then senior positions themselves over time. I am not sure exactly who is still around, but we can only hope there is enough leadership left to oversee those kinds of transitions for future games.
The part I disagree with is your statement about a redemption story from Bioware. In the eyes of the consumer, if they like what they see from the marketing material, all of these layoffs and studio restructuring will wash away if it even registered to begin with. Even to us that do recognize these issues within the industry, people will absolutely see it as a win if the game turns out well.
I think it is dishonest to pretend like the situation at Bioware over the past few years has been normal. People come and go, layoffs happen, but it's been EXTREME at Bioware. They've been bleeding talent since they started Anthem and the people who actually stuck with them through all these years were rewarded with massive layoffs of legacy staff (including many of those there since DAO or before).
Like let's take that video posted earlier, from just four years ago.
Dragon Age 4 - Official Behind the Scenes Teaser Trailer | gamescom 2020
BioWare gives fans a behind the scenes first look at its upcoming Dragon Age game.Thanks for checking out gamescom 2020 on IGN. Be sure to visit IGN from Aug...
Surely if the video was just four years ago, most of these people are still working there, right?
Mark Darrah - Quit in 2020, Re-Hired as a Freelance Consultant in 2023
Graham Scott - Quit in 2021
Melissa Janowicz - Quit in 2020
Jon Renish - Laid off in 2023
Matthew Goldman - Left in 2021, not clear if quit or fired.
Esther Ko - Left in 2022, not clear if quit or fired
Luke Kristjanson - Laid off in 2023
Patrick Weekes - Still with Bioware! Has made it clear that the 2023 layoff killed morale though.
John Epler - Still with Bioware!
Jen Cheverie - Still with Bioware!
Sylvia Feketekuty - No confirmation if part of 2023 layoffs, will assume Still with Bioware.
Andre Garcia - Laid off in 2023
Katrina Barkwell - Still at Bioware!
And that's just the people from the video. I can think of a dozen more major names that were part of Dreadwolf that have quit or been fired, including more writers that had been there since DAO. And it's worth noting that the people who were laid off in 2023 weren't given proper compensation are are currently in the process of attempting legal action. The whole situation is fucked and it's hard to not view the game as tainted. Even IF Dreadwolf turns out great, by some miracle, we can't honestly say it'll be the same team moving forward to the next one.
This is such a powerful and depressing example.
I think I clicked to quote every single one of your posts on this page so instead of pasting them all here I'll just say that I agree with pretty much every word.
For my part... I love the Dragon Age series, I'm excited to play Dreadwolf, I'll get it day one even if the reviews are bad and I'll play it to the end even if I don't really like it. I'm invested & I want it to do well & I want the series to be fun and compelling and special. But I'm absolutely not going to count any Bioware chickens before they're hatched, and following the development has not been cheering.
You joke, but I definitely wouldn't mind seeing something like that for at least Mass Effect, preferably during one of the next couple N7 days. I could really use a nice fat drop of concept art/prototype footage to chew on for a few months.
As long as the narrative and companions remain the focus (which I think they will), I don't think the combat being different is that big a deal. If anything, it will just boost the chances of the game hitting big.
Dreadwolf has been through some shit, no doubt about it. But it is not that unusual when you think about the specific context of the situation the game's been in. EA was going through a period of pushing live service really heavy, and that was pushed onto Bioware too (Anthem was another one), where the original game transitioned into a live service type model. That in itself led to people leaving, which is fairly understandable, which was then followed yet again by retooling everything into a single player game again, and getting it back up to snuff. That kind of tumultuous, uncertain development can of course lead to attrition.
The layoffs were egregious and detrimental, I don't think anyone here is saying otherwise. I'm certainly not. But I think people are taking up some issue with you kind of inferring that because a certain chunk of the team is gone, it's no longer the same team whatsoever and thus there is no 'redemption arc' and it's hard to feel good about the game. People use that phrase because they're simply just talking about Bioware games as a whole, they're not really hyper analyzing the internals of studios. The studio's had some misses the last several years, so if Dreadwolf comes out and turns out to be a resounding success, that's at least worthy of praise? That they're hoping for that outcome. If you can't agree to that then it's ok, we can agree to disagree. I dunno.
On a side note too, Patrick Weekes may have implied that, but like...Bioware is made up of hundreds of people. It's not some hivemind. His is just one opinion and he's more than allowed to have it obviously. But I've also talked to multiple people on the team, ranging from positive to hopeful to 'things aren't as bad as it's made out to be' to more negative. Especially now with Connie Booth leading, there's positive momentum hopefully moving forward.
It's also tiresome to keep reading that everyone's left and Bioware's no longer made of the people that made their games great so don't expect anything good. And since people like to make lists of people that left or were laid off, let's look at many others are still there and trying to make a good game:
Ben McGrath (lead artist since DAO): Still there
John Epler (narrative/creative and like you said, since before DAO): Still there
Steve Middleton (animation since DA2): Still there
Brenon Holmes (programmer/technical design lead since BG2): Still there
Tim Golem (cinematic director since DAO): Still there
Matt Rhodes (art director, since DAO): Still there
Scylla Costa (producer, since ME2): Still there
Shane Hawco (character design, since KOTOR): Still there
Brianne Battye (senior writer, since before DAI): Still there
Brian Audette (senior designer, since SWTOR): Still there
And that's just very, very quickly browsing through the studio. The list would be a lot longer if I kept going. Yes, many talented OG people aren't there anymore, but it's so disingenuous for people (not you personally) to imply like the studio's just a husk and can't make good games anymore. And that's not even taking into accout that there are tons of people hired from other awesome studios like Sucker Punch, Respawn, 343, etc working there. There's a lot of talent on the team.
I never implied that it's totally fine. I think I've been pretty adamant that it hasn't been actually. But I also feel like it should be ok for people to want the game to be a success and for the studio to continue existing and making games, that's all.
also a big part of this sentiment is: 👇🏽
We should just be grateful to be getting AAA singleplayer RPGs at all these days lol
This is honestly so true. BioWare existing and making the games that they do are such a highlight to me imo. Games like this are so incredibly difficult to make it's a miracle they come out at all.
Yeah Dreadwolf could have easily still been the multiplayer game it originally was, and I kind of think we should just be grateful that it isn't and, you know, wait and see what the game is like before pre-judging it.
I want to give this game the benefit of the doubt but when I look at Bioware now all I see is reasons to not believe. Moreover, Bioware got "unlucky" with Baldur's Gate 3 releasing before DA4. The opposite of Inquisition and TW3. I think this game will be chasing trends that are already outdated today.
Or it could work the other way around if you want to be positive. It was funny to see people comparing it with Origins, which is not that unresasonable when you think BG3 does feel like a Bioware game in many aspects, and so, people that liked it might be willing to give Bioware games a chance they had not given before.
In short, I really don't know what to expect.
Or it could work the other way around if you want to be positive. It was funny to see people comparing it with Origins, which is not that unresasonable when you think BG3 does feel like a Bioware game in many aspects, and so, people that liked it might be willing to give Bioware games a chance they had not given before.
In short, I really don't know what to expect.
Yeah that's true too. I think the game will have a contingent of detractors undoubtedly that are still clinging to the Bioware of 20+ years ago making CRPGs, but I don't know what else to say at this point lol. Like, come on, it's time to move on really. It's an action RPG studio and has been for well over a decade.
Spot on actually. A person I talked to on the team not long ago highlighted that specifically. The fact that a studio like Bioware can still make a big budget strictly single player RPG under the umbrella of EA is significant, and that if people want to see that continue and support those kinds of games, well, there's only one do that obviously.
Do you think Mass Effect will be made regardless of how Dreadwolf does, or will Dreadwolf impact whether ME goes forward?
I think there will undoubtedly be an effect if Dreadwolf doesn't meet sales expectations. Just the nature of the business sadly. Whether it completely stops ME, I'm not sure.
Interesing, thanks. I find it unlikely they'd cancel it given that it seems well underway (and it's Mass Effect, it's as surefire an IP as EA have) but yeah, fingers crossed Dreadwolf does well.
is anybody else actually looking forward to the revival of Solas Discourse™️? i think it'll be really funny to watch people rehash the same arguments i was having with other terminally online fools in 2017
I'm not entrenched in the DA community but I have friends who are and I only see positive discourse about Solas.