Dragon Ball Super |OT6| The waiting game

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ArchedThunder

ArchedThunder

Uncle Beerus
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Oct 25, 2017
7,612
I'm surprised the manga arc is ignoring characters, they usually don't do that.
The arc is very self contained, I assume that was probably a limitation put on Toyotaro for his first original arc, potentially to avoid as many issues with future Toriyama stories as possible, or maybe just to see how he does.
 

BizzyBum

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,215
New York
The arc is very self contained, I assume that was probably a limitation put on Toyotaro for his first original arc, potentially to avoid as many issues with future Toriyama stories as possible, or maybe just to see how he does.
The other characters are barely in the Super manga at all outside of some commentary
Bruh what? Manga usually ignores characters
C'mon guys, I was clearly being sarcastic. I don't even read manga, but this series ignores characters all the time which is why I thought no one would take my post seriously. lol
 

brinstar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,122
C'mon guys, I was clearly being sarcastic. I don't even read manga, but this series ignores characters all the time which is why I thought no one would take my post seriously. lol
I thought you might be lol, but since the characters at least appear every so often in the anime I wasn't sure, since they are especially absent in the manga version.
 

Big One

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,297
To be honest I'm kind of glad the manga is slowing it's roll a bit. The last few arcs were rushed, but this one feels like it's actually properly paced by trickling us with bits of information each chapter, building up to the mystery of Moro.

Really do not think it's ending anytime soon unless Toyot decides to rush it all of a sudden.
 
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ArchedThunder

ArchedThunder

Uncle Beerus
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Oct 25, 2017
7,612
Story complaints aside (Why are they just using SSJ against Hearts? Why are 17 and Piccolo there, but not any other extended cast members from U7?) that was a decent looking episode of Heroes. Good board and some decent animation here and there. Nothing mind blowing, but for Heroes standards that was impressive.
 
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Anth0ny

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,744
watching the whole internet get worked up about netflix eva is so cute

they don't know true pain


rewatched episode 1 of eva and was reminded just how good those blu rays look. so much beautiful grain ; _ ;
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,916
Why is Metal Cooler let alone Golden Cooler even a thing now? I guess because Freeza is relevant again?

Making him pure Gold also looks awful.
 
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ArchedThunder

ArchedThunder

Uncle Beerus
Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,612
A new movie being in development was confirmed, but no they did not say it was Broly 2, in fact they said because Broly was so crazy powerful they would go a different route in the next one. New movie is probably 2 or so years away.
 
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Nov 2, 2017
657
So, this is a long ass post and it isn't mine. This is courtesy of The Fourth Monado over on spacebattles' creative writing forum. Link here: https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/dragon-ball-z-reccs-ideas-and-discussions.250067/page-238#post-58216399 . But it's basically a rewrite of Dragon Ball GT with elements of Super and expanded mythos folded in. I think it's damn good, and thought some of you all might get a kick out of it.

"You know, for a while I've been kinda idly thinking about how one would take GT and give it a makeover with more... thematic consistency with other Dragon Ball works, and with more focus on the younger generation of Goten, Trunks, Oob and Pan. Here's the result of my ideas.

Also I will not deny adding stuff from later Dragon Ball canon, shoot me :V
So this part has the least thought put into it out of all these ideas, so forgive me.

So basically, the opening of GT happens, up to the point where the Black Star Dragon Balls wish happens. The difference is, here, they got taken down to the ground, so Goku goes down and interrupts Pilaf's wish. Pilaf, irritates, wishes Goku would "Go away", and Goku finds himself suddenly back at his home where we meet Goten. Goku goes back, the Black Star Dragon Balls are elaborated on, yadda yadda.

The main difference is this time, Goten is dragged along due to Chi-Chi wanting him to "Go out and do something and stop being lazy and chasing after girls", while Oob comes along because "I might have graduated, but this seems like a really big issue so I should help". Pan and Trunks, of course, come along, with Gohan and Vegeta stating that they'll be able to hold the fort here. Thus, the group heads off into space, to collect and return the Black Star Dragon balls.

This part is pretty episodic, with most of the focus being on the kids. Goku is more of a mentor, here, who mostly stays uninvolved beyond encouraging the kids and stepping in then things get too hairy. There's emphasis on the kids learning lessons - Goten needing to deal with his laziness, Trunks having to deal with his flakiness, Oob having a bit of a stick up his ass that needs removing, and Pan discovering how she enjoys fighting and that some things aren't quite what they seem. The Dragon Balls are collected, and near the end the Machine Mutants are encountered. Things end up going so Goku faces off against Rildo while everyone else deals with other lieutenants as they try to re-obtain the Dragon Balls. At this point, I should note Goku is unironically cocky and supremely confident in himself, and functionally toys around with Rildo, only needing Super Saiyan at most to deal with him. However, after he kills Rildo and heads down to collect the final Black Star Dragon Ball, Doctor Myuu tricks him into opening the capsule that contains Bebi - in this case, who isn't a Tuffle creation, but more the 'Ultimate' Machine Mutant. Just as everyone arrives, Bebi possesses Goku, and while Goku is fine for a bit Bebi fully gains control, transforming Goku into a white-haired Super Saiyan state and taking the Black Star Dragon Balls, leaving with them to Earth via instant transmission.

The changes here are simple. At this point, Oob and the others manage to get back to Earth via spaceship, and discover a world now ruled by Bebi Kakarot. It's revealed that Bebi's programming, while designed mostly around "Conquer everything and turn them into Machine Mutants", had some rather large gaps in it that certain, ahem, repressed memories of Goku's, causing him to believe that he is, in fact, the self of Goku that was lost long ago, the Saiyan warrior Kakarot. Though an utter lie, as evidenced by Goku still being around in his head - if only able to contact the outside world via telepathy - he's begun to conquer the world "In the name of the Saiyans", and has defeated and 'Infected' Gohan with his Machine Mutant powers, though Vegeta had managed to escape for now with Bulma(Bra was also infected). The heros launch an all out attack, attempting to defeat Goku and bring him back to his senses, but in the fight Bebi's power is too great, and he is able to infect Goten and Trunks, before absorbing the power of Gohan, Bra, Goten and Trunks, using the energy to mutate and empower his Super Saiyan 2 state. Using this form, he kills Vegeta, before absorbing all the energy from his infected servants to become what he calls "The true Super Saiyan 3". Vegeta wasn't exactly killed, however, and was transported to the Sacred World of the Kais just in time. Meanwhile the stress of seeing her Grandfather's body used in such a way - and being forced to fight her father and mother - causes Pan to snap and break her limits, ascending into a Super Saiyan for the first time.

While her power is great, Pan is unable to win against her father, though Oob saves her right before she's defeated. She manages to escape due to #17 and 18 showing up, while Oob sacrifices himself to allow that. They travel to the Lookout, and she meets the surviving human Dragon Warriors and Piccolo, who begin to train her while the Lookout is protected from Infected Goten and trunk's attacks by 17 and 18. Meanwhile, Oob is seemingly slain by Bebi Goku's equivalent to the Revenge Death Ball, but is saved at the last second by Majin Boo. He takes him to a hidden bunker where Mister Satan is, and Goku telepathically reveals Oob's past life, and how he might be able to draw out all of Boo's power in some way. He also reveals that hes being forced to fight to keep himself conscious 24/7, due to Bebi constantly attempting to crush the "False self" mentally.

As for Vegeta, the Kais show via their crystal ball that Saiyans can use their power better when they have their tails than when they don't, so they restore Vegeta's before helping him train a little. Vegeta, having grown up somewhat, accepts the help offered, while back on Earth Oob hits a wall in "bringing out all the power he had as Boo", especially when Infected Gohan find the bunker. Despite Oob and Boo's efforts, Gohan is able to trounce them both soundly- until Boo gets the idea to fuse with Oob - since they are, in a sense, the same being. Despite Satan and Oob's protests, Boo sacrifices himself, causing Oob to transform into what Mister Satan refers to as "Majoob", though Oob assures him he's still Oob. With his newfound power, he's able to defeat Gohan, and makes a surprising discovery due to the Kais - he can actually use his new magic to purify people of Bebi's infections. Vegeta shows up as well, now with a tail, and the pair head off to confront Bebi Goku, even as Pan finishes training and leaves the Lookout - again, heading for Bebi Goku.

It's now 17, 18, Pan, Oob, Piccolo, and Vegeta versus Bebi Goku, Goten, Trunks, Bra, and the entire infected population. While Goten and Trunks fuse to hold the heros off, Bebi Goke wishes for the "Saiyan Homeworld to be Restored!", causing a New Planet Vegeta to appear, and then wishes that everyone here would be transported there. Just after the team manage to get Bebi Gotenks to waste all of their power and defuse(before getting beaten and purified), Bebi Goku shows up and begins whooping people's asses. Despite Vegeta's new tail letting him draw out enough power from his Super Saiyan 2 to reach near SSJ3 levels, and despite Oob's new strength, they proceed to lose, hard, until Vegeta happens to get an eyeful of Earth. Golden Great Ape results, and Vegeta rampages from sheer disuse to the form at Goku until a (admittedly weakened) Trunks, Bra, and Bulma's voices get through to him, allowing him to finally remember the training he did and transform into Super Saiyan 4 - or, as I'm calling it here, Super Oozaru.

So here, there's two known versions of Super Saiyan 4 that'll show up - Controlled and Uncontrolled.


Vegeta's version is the Controlled version. This state, as shown by the green eyes, is the state of someone who can normally control the power of the Oozaru, and successfully use and direct it. They experience far more self-control, and can sustain the form far better than...

The Uncontrolled version that Goku will obtain. This is the form obtained by someone who does not normally control the Oozaru state, as symbolized by the yellow eyes. In this state, the instincts and nature of the Oozaru form bubble beneath the surface, and if Goku isn't careful about his emotions, he'll regress back into the Golden Oozaru form.

Both forms do the same thing, I will note - draw out all the latent power of the basic Super Saiyan forms, and combine it with the Oozaru state to create a naturally stronger, more durable body capable of handling that power better. Controlled just can use it's power better, and thus is capable of bringing more strength out without any issues.

Anyways, Super Oozaru Vegeta proceeds to beat Bebi Goku 3 like a drum, while trash talking the whole "Sayian" thing going on("So you've mutated your slaves so they all have tails now. Big whoop. That doesn't make them real Saiyans."). When Bebi seems to have lost, though, he reveals that he restored this body's tail, before looking at Earth himself. Like normal GT, Bebi can control this Golden Oozaru state while being unable to go Super Oozaru due to being a corrupting force inside Goku, and the new instincts help Goku's will mount a counteroffensive. Combined with Oob, Pan, Gohan, Goten, Trunks and everyone else piling in to help, Bebi Goku finally is defeated and removed from Goku's body with a Purifying Kamehameha from Oob. Bebi attempts to escape, and then Goku proceeds to stand up and blast him into the sun, with a line about "This is thanks for using my body as a formal suit for all that time."

A breather arc, where the main conflict isn't something that can be punched. Namely, New Planet Vegeta, being so close to Earth and being so large and heavy, is causing tidal troubles and might crash into Earth soon. Thus, the Dragon Balls need to be used to fix this problem, and yet collecting them is being a bit awkward. Once collected, Pan wishes for New Planet Vegeta to be placed in a stable, nearby orbit that won't cause issues for Earth( with the defense that "hey, it's a new place to explore!"), and then wishes for the remaining physical changes from Bebi's infections to be reversed if people so desired(a small but noticeable portion of people didn't, actually.). There's no removing people's memories here - Earth *remembers* the Bebi fight, and what happened. The loose secret of Ki that Mr. Satan had ended up keeping from the world is blown wide open, and this is what influences most of the following Slice of Life stuff. Oob checks back home, Goku nearly has public opinion turn on him until Mr. Satan uses his godly wordcraft to convince people that he was just possessed like the rest of them(which to be fair was true), and overall the Dragon Warriors now need to deal with being public figures.

Hey, at least Goten becomes popular with girls more, now that he's known as "One of the Dragon Warriors who defeated Bebi".

This is the arc with the most divergences from GT canon. Be warned.

Things have settled after the Bebi stuff, and Pan is going to school again. Everything seems fine, and there doesn't seem to be any issues on the horizon, letting Trunks go back to learning how to business, Goten working for Capsule Corps while being kinda uncomfortable about hanger-on girls, Oob is with Goku helping him train to achieve Super Oozaru, and everyone else is just living their lives while being bothered about the Ki business(Gohan let slip that Ki could be taught to people, and that he was writing a book about it).

Then things get weird. Namely, Raditz shows up and begins blowing up the city Pan was going to school in, and when she confronts him he reveals an odd amount of strength - somehow, he's able to go Super Saiyan, but the aura is weird and corruptedly thick and red instead of gold - and manages to escape Pan. Reports of superpowered ghosts showing up all over the place, just making a mess of things. Thus, Goku contacts the Kais, and learns what's going on.

Namely, some dummy manning the machine that purified the evil from souls in Hell did something, causing it to explode right when it was processing a certain batch of souls. These souls, now regaining their bodies, proceeded to break a bunch of dangerous villains out of Hell, before portalling them to Earth for some unknown reason. And the leader seems to be an empowered Frieza, of all people - with Cell also having escaped!

The Dragon Warriors decide to split up, with different targets to find and deal with. Goku and Oob are to find Frieza, #18, #17 and Gohan are to find Cell, Goten, Trunks, and the rest are going to deal with the random other warriors who escaped... and Pan is to stay out of this, because she's just a child and this sort of violence isn't something she's prepared to deal with.

Vegeta ends up finding Nappa, like in canon. Here, he attempts to reason with him and asks why he's working with Frieza, before Nappa reveals he isn't - he and Raditz aren't serving that great enemy of the Saiyans, but instead someone else. He then accuses Vegeta of being a traitor, and goes Super Saiyan and attacks. Despite Vegeta's efforts, he's forced to kill Nappa again, and for a bit ruminates on how he killed him the first time.

Gohan, 17, and 18 encounter Cell at the place the Cell Games happened. What follows is a team fight, with all three of them tag teaming a powered-up Cell and managing to win.

Meanwhile, Raditz shows up to explicitly kidnap Pan. For some reason, he's somehow stronger, and references a "Source" to this invasion who's giving him orders. Pan is nearly overwhelmed, until Piccolo shows up to help, referencing a "Weird Hooded Guy" who also went to meet Goten and Trunks. Speaking of, their patrol dealing with all the random trash encounters this hooded guy, who despite his suspicious look gives Goten and Trunks an oddly reassuring feeling. He transports them to Pan and helps them defeat Raditz, before saying he can help them get to the source of this. When asked who he is, he removes his hood, revealing a rather Vegeta-like face, and gives a simple name:

Yamoshi.

Meanwhile, Goku and Oob encounter Frieza, after tearing through his force. When asked, Frieza reveals he's not sure who's behind this, but he'd thank them all the same - for after training for years in Hell, he discovered a way to surpass himself. He and Goku fight,, and while Frieza is strong Goku doesn't need to go beyond Super Saiyan to equal him. And then, Frieza states "You might not know this, but I'm a being capable of transforming. Most of my forms exist to regulate my power, however... but after seeing your own transformations, that filthy 'Super Saiyan', I just had to answer it in my own way. Behold, the results of my training in Hell!"




"I decided to make it gold, to show my position atop the pecking order. Hmm... let's keep the name simple. This... is Golden Frieza."

Goku's Super Saiyan 3 strength is no match for Golden Frieza's immense power. However, at a pre-arranged signal, Oob uses a spell to make Frieza's head appear like a shining moon... and Goku transforms into a Golden Oozaru. This time, however, he... pauses, and shrinks, and soon resolves into a Super Oozaru with yellow eyes. His power in this state allows him to, while not exceed Golden Frieza's strength, at least stand up to it, and Oob lends his assistance now. However, even together, they're still losing, and Goku is having issues with controlling his form and not reverting back into the Golden Oozaru state. This is when Vegeta shows up, and his added power allows the three fighters to overcome Frieza - though as he dies, he tells them of somethign worse coming, especially for Vegeta, and that he'd savor their pain from Hell.

Meanwhile, Goten, Trunks and Pan go on a Vision Quest, guided by Yamoshi as he tells them the story of what really happened, regarding the Super Saiyan and the Super Saiyan God. He shows them Saiyan society throughout the ages, and how in times of great evil, pure-hearted Saiyans would be born to guide Saiyan society back toward a more righteous path, in case they'd be destroyed. He had been one of the later ones, and he and his companions had stood against the evil Saiyans of his time - pooling their power together into him, so that he could become the Super Saiyan God.

He then tells them that the source of this outbreak is distinctly Saiyan, even as a malice-filled presence washes over Earth. And as Vegeta and Goku turn, they behold a man in royal garb, with hair recognizable to anyone who knows Vegeta and an aura of supreme evil energy.

King Vegeta.

He accuses the Saiyans before him of turning fro the true path of the Saiyans - the path of destruction - and that he would destroy them for that, before going out to rebuild the Saiyans with all the malice he'd absorbed from every Saiyan soul in Hell. hat follows is a desperate fight, as King Vegeta wields the strength of millions of souls as his own - all the Saiyans enslaved by their own sins to his will. Despite Gohan and everyone else showing up, Vegeta remains an overwhelming force who utterly devastates a good chunk of the planet.

Meanwhile, Yamoshi finishes his story about how he failed, and that the evil within the Saiyans had built up to this point and needed to be cleared. He then tells Goten, Trunks and Pan that he was leaving the future to them, and sends them back. They arrive to the fight, and their normal Super Saiyan states are unable to help much... but then Trunks remembers Gotenks. As Oob, Piccolo, the Androids and others hold off King Vegeta, the Saiyans gather and pool their energy into Goten and Trunks. With both filled up to the brim, the others join in the fight while Goten and Trunks move apart.

"Fuuuuu...Sion! HA!"


And thus, even as the King moves to strike down Pan... a hand wreathed in scarlet flames catches his attack. Gotenks stands there, hair and eyes scarlet - the Super Saiyan God. The battle that follows is... uneven, as the evil used by King Vegeta to enslave his race cannot stand against the power of a Super Saiyan God. However, Gotenks spends too much time messing around and trying to deal with way he'd enslaved those souls, and thus ends up defusing. All hope seems lost...

Until Trunks blocks one of King Vegeta's attacks. He and Goten still retain some of the Godly power, somehow. And with everyone's combined efforts, and the heavily weakened King Vegeta losing his grip, he is obliterated, and the souls are allowed to move on into the cycle of reincarnation.

This part has the least changes, to be perfectly honest. They gather the Dragon Balls, Dark Shenron appears, they scatter, ect ect and so forth. The only things I'd change are:

1. Everyone goes after different dragons. It's not just Goku and Pan. Everyone chips in at some points.
2. The earlier Dragons are more than just gimmicks. They're actual threats that aren't easily dealt with by SSJ4 Goku.

This leads to an Everyone vs. Omega Shenron battle. Furthermore, before Vegeta and Goku fuse, Gohan, Pan, Goten and Trunks amp them both up - leading to SSJ4 Gogeta wielding God Ki. I admit, that beyond most of the actual dragons, I... don't feel like I need to change much, here.

In the end, it's a Universal Spirit Bomb that does Omega in, and Goku passes on - leaving the world in the hands of his rival and their children.
 
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ArchedThunder

ArchedThunder

Uncle Beerus
Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,612
Hmm so no TV series coming soon?
A movie being in early planning doesn't mean anything for the TV show. It's normal practice for anime to have a movie come out while the show is running and this movie is likely 2 years away or so. DB has its own planning division at Toei now, something no other series does and it's Toei's number 1 money maker by a large margin, so they can easily justify doing for it what they've been doing for One Piece for years.
We've also had multiple animators confirm privately that they are working on the show, so it's only a matter of time now.
 
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SeriousGoku

Member
Jun 20, 2019
38
Rewatching DBZ, my God, Dabura had so much potential to be possibly the best villain in the entire franchise, what a wasted villain.

And his Funi Dub voice was fucking awesome, too.
 

Sub Boss

Member
Nov 14, 2017
10,556
Rewatching DBZ, my God, Dabura had so much potential to be possibly the best villain in the entire franchise, what a wasted villain.

And his Funi Dub voice was fucking awesome, too.
Dabura was just a tool to be Babidi's bodyguard,show how powerful Goku and Vegeta are compared to the kai, and how threatening and unstable the clown Majin Buu truly is, pay no mind to him. Though i would have changed Dabura for Majin Vegeta maybe 🤔
 

SeriousGoku

Member
Jun 20, 2019
38
Dabura was just a tool to be Babidi's bodyguard,show how powerful Goku and Vegeta are compared to the kai, and how threatening and unstable the clown Majin Buu truly is, pay no mind to him. Though i would have changed Dabura for Majin Vegeta maybe 🤔
Yeahhh.

Im a sucker for the Majin Vegeta storyline though, I think that was Toriyama in top form.

But "King of the Demon realm" had so much potential, especially now with Super and the Gods/Angels stuff. Plus that sword he can conjure up out of no where was badass 😒. If done right he would have been a much better villain than Buu.
 
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ArchedThunder

ArchedThunder

Uncle Beerus
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Oct 25, 2017
7,612
Yeahhh.

Im a sucker for the Majin Vegeta storyline though, I think that was Toriyama in top form.

But "King of the Demon realm" had so much potential, especially now with Super and the Gods/Angels stuff. Plus that sword he can conjure up out of no where was badass 😒. If done right he would have been a much better villain than Buu.
The Demon Realm is a major thing in Heroes (not the anime) and even Dabura gets some play, so you can look to that if you are starving for more.
Despite that I'd love to see Toriyama's own take on a story involving the Demon Realm, one that totally ignored Heroes and Towa and Mira just as he ignored all the Time Patrol stuff with Trunks.
 
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Skeeter49

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,488
The Xenoverse games don't even have Dabura in (Well thanks to DLC they do now), and his sister has been one of the most important characters in both games.
 

Mory Dunz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,166
evil fat buu is best buu
not counting the gray evil boo,
my favorite buus actually go in consecutive order.

Fat Buu > Super > Buutenks > Buuhan > Kid Buu.
weird.

yea I know people love him, but was never a fan of kid buu. Dunno...he didn't do anything interesting, shrug.

(and the fact that he was weak and gohan, could've easily beat him made the fight feel weird. I enjoyed it of course, but yea he felt pointless and weak when I looked back on it years later. I was hyped though when I first saw him when I was young)