Easy/Assist mode is a blessing. Every game should have it.

[Swift_Gamer]

So you're playing the game, it's challenging enough, you die a bit, you make some mistakes and it's ok, that's how games are.
And then you get at the boss. You fight the boss, 3, 4, 5, 20, 30 times.
You get frustrated, you finally win after 40 tries.
Do you feel good about you? Well, I don't. I usually feel bad about how I wasted my time because the boss wasn't balanced enough to match the difficulty from the previous area. Difficulty spikes are bad design.
That's why easy/assist mode on the fly is so good, you can make the badly designed boss easy or manageable if you want to. And then you can go back to the original difficulty. So good.
"Git gud"? Git gud my ass. I have a lot going in my life to waste hours upon hours grinding because the developer threw in a badly designed boss in the middle of the game.

 

[hikarutilmitt]

Not that options are a bad thing, but this sounds more like advocating for games to not be designed poorly rather than easy/assist modes being jammed into all games.

EDIT: fixed a typo

 

[Deleted member 5334]

Not that options are a bad thing, but this sounds more like advocating for games to not be designed well rather than easy/assist modes being jammed into all games.

Click to shrink...

Some of us legit have disabilities that make it difficult to deal with bosses of this nature, hence why the suggestion of this, and can help us brute force it in situation's like this. It's not inherently the boss is designed poorly, per-say (though there are legit cases of this), but some of us can't deal with this due to our disabilities. It's the reason why minigames for me can be hell, same with QTE/QTAs, as I don't have the response time, my brain freezes up on certain actions, etc., so options like this are absolutely wonderful for accessibility.

So yes, he's asking for more options.

 

[iceblade]

Agreed 100%. I'm in the game for the story most of the time, and play most of my games on Easy. I can understand wanting to play a game for challenge, mechanics, etc, but if I'm struggling that much it's not going to be fun for me, and I don't have the patience (or time) to stick with a game if it's not fun. I'll move on to something else instead.

One example is Icewind Dale. Was a great game, then there was a boss (Yxunomei) for whom I had to turn on Story mode (which makes you invincible), then beat her, crank up the difficulty and proceed. I don't regret doing that because it let me continue to play the game and I really enjoyed it. God of War 1 (the HD version on PS3) is another example. Between the camera and being swarmed by enemies who keep stunning you (thus preventing you from acting, I tried it for a few hours and dropped it, and will never pick it up again.

 

[gabegabe]

Not that options are a bad thing, but this sounds more like advocating for games to not be designed well rather than easy/assist modes being jammed into all games.

Click to shrink...

Why would an easy mode affect that?

 

[QisTopTier]

Healing in games that let you avoid damage is more than enough assistance to me.

 

[Deleted member 16657]

I think options are always good, but I disagree about losing being a waste of time. Learning from your mistakes and getting better is one of the joys of videogames that other entertainment doesn't really provide.

 

[SweetJohnnyCage]

Can you give an example of what prompted this post?

 

[hikarutilmitt]

Why would an easy mode affect that?

Click to shrink...

I just corrected my typo.

 

[Lashley]

Options are always a good thing.

 

[Swift_Gamer]

Some of us legit have disabilities that make it difficult to deal with bosses of this nature, hence why the suggestion of this, and can help us brute force it in situation's like this. It's not inherently the boss is designed poorly, per-say (though there are legit cases of this), but some of us can't deal with this due to our disabilities. It's the reason why minigames for me can be hell, same with QTE/QTAs, as I don't have the response time, my brain freezes up on certain actions, etc., so options like this are absolutely wonderful for accessibility.

So yes, he's asking for more options.

Click to shrink...

I wasn't even thinking of this, but yeah I agree.
And I definitely think a lot of good games have badly designed bosses in it. The developers and play testers don't get this and you can see it's true when you have a lot of talk in forums about said boss being too hard.

 

[Deleted member 5334]

I think options are always good, but I disagree about losing being a waste of time. Learning from your mistakes and getting better is one of the joys of videogames that other entertainment doesn't really provide.

Click to shrink...

Unless you can't get through it with because of your disability. At that point, it's more like crying and frustrated with yourself, and beating yourself up "why can't I do something this simple?". This includes games with forced motion control mechanics. Mind, Breath of the Wild gave able-bodied people issues here, but I was crying because I couldn't make sense or understand, or coordinate the gyro/motion control puzzles.

This happened with my with Super Mario Galaxy, where the Spider boss requires a mixture of normal and motion controls, including using the point to grab onto things, and ebcause my brain freezes up on complex functions like this, it took me so many fucking lives to get through it. I got a little further, but that was where it effectively was done by me.

So yes, difficulty, assist, and other options help people like me and make the stuff more enjoyable. So don't say this. Please.

 

[Deleted member 26156]

I feel like some people don't realize that easy mode(s) can still be challenging, just to a lesser extent.

 

[Swift_Gamer]

I think options are always good, but I disagree about losing being a waste of time. Learning from your mistakes and getting better is one of the joys of videogames that other entertainment doesn't really provide.

Click to shrink...

Not losing, but taking more than 10 times is a waste of time. Specially when the boss is a difficult spike coming from a reasonably difficult area.

 

[Thera]

"From software fans, assemble! "
Joke aside, yes. And the best you can do about accessibility.

Learning from your mistakes and getting better is one of the joys of videogames that other entertainment doesn't really provide.

Click to shrink...

Yes, it is "one of". That means some player will preferred others (story for exemple, or being powerful, or stress-free, ...

 

[PlanetSmasher]

I wasn't even thinking of this, but yeah I agree.
And I definitely think a lot of good games have badly designed bosses in it. The developers and play testers don't get this and you can see it's true when you have a lot of talk in forums about said boss being too hard.

Click to shrink...

I think there's a kernel of truth to bad boss design being fairly common in games, but I also don't necessarily think difficulty and quality are intrinsically linked.

A boss that's too easy is just boring, for example.

 

[wars]

I agree 100%, options are always nice and gives every type of gamer the challenge they want. Every game should be accessible to everyone.

 

[Swift_Gamer]

Can you give an example of what prompted this post?

Click to shrink...

So'najiz Temple boss in CrossCode. First time I used assist mode in the game.

 

[gabegabe]

I think options are always good, but I disagree about losing being a waste of time. Learning from your mistakes and getting better is one of the joys of videogames that other entertainment doesn't really provide.

Click to shrink...

But the "learning" is just getting better in a game that when I finish it i'll never play it again (or maybe play it in a couple years later, and I'll definitely have to learn it again). How is that not a waste of time? I don't want to grind a game to get better, just let me play the thing. I don't see it as one of the "joys of the medium".

 

[Swift_Gamer]

But the "learning" is just getting better in a game that when I finish it i'll never play it again (or maybe play it in a couple years later, and I'll definitely have to learn it again). How is that not a waste of time? I don't want to grind a game to get better, just let me play the thing. I don't see it as a "joy of the medium".

Click to shrink...

Losing a few times is ok. Losing 20/30/40 times is not ok.

 

[gabegabe]

Losing a few times is ok. Losing 20/30/40 times is not ok.

Click to shrink...

Yeah, I'm right there with you.

 

[SweetJohnnyCage]

But the "learning" is just getting better in a game that when I finish it i'll never play it again (or maybe play it in a couple years later, and I'll definitely have to learn it again). How is that not a waste of time? I don't want to grind a game to get better, just let me play the thing. I don't see it as one of the "joys of the medium".

Click to shrink...

Some folks like the learning and grinding. Some folks don't. I'm all for options, as long as it means the only difference is damage and health and maybe timing windows, but you can't dismiss how other people feel, just because you feel it's a waste of time. Your feelings aren't any more valid than anyone else's.

So'najiz Temple boss in CrossCode. First time I used assist mode in the game.

Click to shrink...

Gotcha. Never played that game.

 

[hrœrekr]

I like the challenge.
But my gf can only play with easy modes.
If she had to play different games because mine are too challenging, she wouldn't even bother playing at all.

It's great when games have options. We can both enjoy the same story/world, even with different skills.

 

[Deleted member 5334]

I wasn't even thinking of this, but yeah I agree.
And I definitely think a lot of good games have badly designed bosses in it. The developers and play testers don't get this and you can see it's true when you have a lot of talk in forums about said boss being too hard.

Click to shrink...

Honestly, yeah. Sometimes you have a case where the mechanics either aren't working as intended (due to a bug/glitch or just poorly thought out/planned), or the game gives you absolutely no indicator how you're supposed to progress/fight against it. While all enemies will have a level of learning and exploiting weaknesses and stuff, there plenty of examples where the design process went really wrong and it makes it a legit barrier because of this.

 

[JuniperAndSage]

So you're playing the game, it's challenging enough, you die a bit, you make some mistakes and it's ok, that's how games are.
And then you get at the boss. You fight the boss, 3, 4, 5, 20, 30 times.
You get frustrated, you finally win after 40 tries.
Do you feel good about you? Well, I don't.

Click to shrink...

I do. That's the best part of a lot of games. If I'm playing a game where I can turn the difficulty down, and I do it after 4 tries, instead of 40, I feel pretty shitty.

 

[Deleted member 58846]

Agreed. Glad that there are tougher difficulty levels for those that have the time or inclination to deal with that sort of thing, but for me personally, I'm glad that easier difficulties are an option, it's the reason I'm able to still make it through so many games.

 

[Torpedo Vegas]

Yep.

 

[Deleted member 2620]

it seems weird to me that more developers don't expose options that they very clearly use while developing the game, like invincibility modes, and clearly communicate that those modes should be used if needed but aren't what the game is balanced around.

with the proper communication in place this doesn't advocate sloppy design at all and its incredibly disingenuous or ignorant to suggest otherwise

 

[gabegabe]

Some folks like the learning and grinding. Some folks don't. I'm all for options, as long as it means the only difference is damage and health and maybe timing windows, but you can't dismiss how other people feel, just because you feel it's a waste of time. Your feelings aren't any more valid than anyone else's.

Click to shrink...

But I'm not dismissing, I'm just arguing about the topic.

And why it only have to be just damage, health and timing windows? Why can't assist mode change other things?

 

[Rodney McKay]

Definitely, those modes (or adjustable difficulty at any time) can be game savers.

I remember screwing myself over at a late-game fight in Dragon Age 2 because I didn't really have the best party (I think I might have lost a group member due to story reasons, can't totally remember), and I didn't have any recent saves.

The fight just starts off with you surrounded by like 10 fire demons.
The only way I was able to get past it was to figure out how to activate console cheats on PC (which wasn't easy), and even then all it did was make my main character immortal, so it still took forever to finish the fight.

Literally no other battle in the entire game had given me trouble, but that one random fight before one of the final bosses nearly hauled my progress.

 

[DXLelouch24]

Losing a few times is ok. Losing 20/30/40 times is not ok.

Click to shrink...

Guess im just stubbern as thats about how many attempts it took to beat ReMinds secret boss

 

[hydrophilic attack]

The industry leader for how to handle difficulty spikes in games is From Software and Souls games. Should you ever struggle with those games, you can very easily summon another player and make the boss fight or level easy. This approach has many advantages compared to traditional easy modes:

1. The developers don't have to spend valuable resources developing other difficulty modes and can concentrate on the main experience. This makes for a more polished product and reduces the workload for the developers, which is very important considering how so many developers these days burn out due to crunch.

2. Co-op is less condescending than a traditional easy mode. You're playing exactly the same game as everyone else, just doing so while engaging in jolly cooperation. You still get the same sense of accomplishment after overcoming the challenge as someone who fights the boss on their lonesome

3. It makes the online mode more populated, which benefits EVERYONE playing the game.

4. Playing with others is a fun experience in and of itself

As the debate about difficulty in games rages on, I hope more developers consider following this example set by the industry leader, From Software.

 

[Spiderman]

But the "learning" is just getting better in a game that when I finish it i'll never play it again (or maybe play it in a couple years later, and I'll definitely have to learn it again). How is that not a waste of time? I don't want to grind a game to get better, just let me play the thing. I don't see it as one of the "joys of the medium".

Click to shrink...

I don't understand this. Why do you play games if you think getting better or 'learning' is waste of time?

 

[sredgrin]

The industry leader for how to handle difficulty spikes in games is From Software and Souls games. Should you ever struggle with those games, you can very easily summon another player and make the boss fight or level easy. This approach has many advantages compared to traditional easy modes:

1. The developers don't have to spend valuable resources developing other difficulty modes and can concentrate on the main experience. This makes for a more polished product and reduces the workload for the developers, which is very important considering how so many developers these days burn out due to crunch.

2. Co-op is less condescending than a traditional easy mode. You're playing exactly the same game as everyone else, just doing so while engaging in jolly cooperation. You still get the same sense of accomplishment after overcoming the challenge as someone who fights the boss on their lonesome

3. It makes the online mode more populated, which benefits EVERYONE playing the game.

4. Playing with others is a fun experience in and of itself

As the debate about difficulty in games rages on, I hope more developers consider following this example set by the industry leader, From Software.

Click to shrink...

I don't think the industry standard should rely on both online modes and hoping that specific content is still populated. Just look at like, every Soulslike game with an online function that isn't made by From. You'll be lucky to ever find a partner for a lot of stuff outside the launch window.

 

[gabegabe]

I don't understand this. Why do you play games if you think getting better or 'learning' is waste of time?

Click to shrink...

Because I like the interaction between me and the world it presents, the unique way games can tell stories that no other medium can. It doesn't need to be hard and make me grind for hours and hours just to "get gud".

 

[J75]

Been a big proponent for this. Yes, yes, yes.

 

[Fishook]

The industry leader for how to handle difficulty spikes in games is From Software and Souls games. Should you ever struggle with those games, you can very easily summon another player and make the boss fight or level easy. This approach has many advantages compared to traditional easy modes:

1. The developers don't have to spend valuable resources developing other difficulty modes and can concentrate on the main experience. This makes for a more polished product and reduces the workload for the developers, which is very important considering how so many developers these days burn out due to crunch.

2. Co-op is less condescending than a traditional easy mode. You're playing exactly the same game as everyone else, just doing so while engaging in jolly cooperation. You still get the same sense of accomplishment after overcoming the challenge as someone who fights the boss on their lonesome

3. It makes the online mode more populated, which benefits EVERYONE playing the game.

4. Playing with others is a fun experience in and of itself

As the debate about difficulty in games rages on, I hope more developers consider following this example set by the industry leader, From Software.

Click to shrink...

Me personally has no desire to play games with random people, and not everyone has groups of friends which play similar games at the same time. I am getting to age due my reactions getting slower and my gaming time being reduced I play a lot of games on easy these days. I have no desire playing any games by From Software as they do not suit my play style.

 

[Ciao]

Yes. Anyone who stands and say no is just plain gatekeeping.

 

[s y]

Me personally has no desire to play games with random people, and not everyone has groups of friends which play similar games at the same time. I am getting to age due my reactions getting slower and my gaming time

Click to shrink...

In from software games you can summon ai NPCs to help you.

 

[Joule]

every 2 months

 

[MajulaDream]

Meh, plenty of games exist. Just play something else.

 

[Field]

Isn't there already easy mode in basically 99% of all games?

 

[s y]

Also on topic, if you're main concern/dislike of having to fail multiple times is that you're wasting your time, why not drop the game and play something that you feel respects your time?


Also, I think cheat codes would solve this problem. Cheat codes need to make a comeback.

 

[sredgrin]

In from software games you can summon ai NPCs to help you.

Click to shrink...

You mean babysit while they maybe hopefully distract the boss before dying, especially in some of the earlier games.

They're also not in Sekiro and weren't in many Bloodborne bosses before a late patch / dlc.

 

[Deleted member 16657]

Unless you can't get through it with because of your disability. At that point, it's more like crying and frustrated with yourself, and beating yourself up "why can't I do something this simple?". This includes games with forced motion control mechanics. Mind, Breath of the Wild gave able-bodied people issues here, but I was crying because I couldn't make sense or understand, or coordinate the gyro/motion control puzzles.

This happened with my with Super Mario Galaxy, where the Spider boss requires a mixture of normal and motion controls, including using the point to grab onto things, and ebcause my brain freezes up on complex functions like this, it took me so many fucking lives to get through it. I got a little further, but that was where it effectively was done by me.

So yes, difficulty, assist, and other options help people like me and make the stuff more enjoyable. So don't say this. Please.

Click to shrink...

Like I said, that's why options are important. Its obviously ridiculous to tell someone who is differently abled that they need to experience something the same way as everyone else. The pleasure of getting better is not and shouldn't be exclusive to the abled. Giving someone the tools to create their own tailored experience and achieve that same joy is wonderful.

"From software fans, assemble! "
Joke aside, yes. And the best you can do about accessibility.

Yes, it is "one of". That means some player will preferred others (story for exemple, or being powerful, or stress-free, ...

Click to shrink...

Of course, I never said it was the only way.

Not losing, but taking more than 10 times is a waste of time. Specially when the boss is a difficult spike coming from a reasonably difficult area.

Click to shrink...

But the "learning" is just getting better in a game that when I finish it i'll never play it again (or maybe play it in a couple years later, and I'll definitely have to learn it again). How is that not a waste of time? I don't want to grind a game to get better, just let me play the thing. I don't see it as one of the "joys of the medium".

Click to shrink...

I mean, this is just an agree to disagree. People value their time differently. Many would call us weirdos for spending time posting on a niche online video game forum. Are they right and we are wrong? I don't think so. I have a great time grinding and getting better at a game and I don't feel like improving at something is ever time I would consider wasted.

 

[Swift_Gamer]

Also on topic, if you're main concern/dislike of having to fail multiple times is that you're wasting your time, why not drop the game and play something that you feel respects your time?


Also, I think cheat codes would solve this problem. Cheat codes need to make a comeback.

Click to shrink...

I'm invested in the story sometimes and I want to see how it ends.

 

[Japanmanx3]

*sigh*

 

[Swift_Gamer]

The industry leader for how to handle difficulty spikes in games is From Software and Souls games. Should you ever struggle with those games, you can very easily summon another player and make the boss fight or level easy. This approach has many advantages compared to traditional easy modes:

1. The developers don't have to spend valuable resources developing other difficulty modes and can concentrate on the main experience. This makes for a more polished product and reduces the workload for the developers, which is very important considering how so many developers these days burn out due to crunch.

2. Co-op is less condescending than a traditional easy mode. You're playing exactly the same game as everyone else, just doing so while engaging in jolly cooperation. You still get the same sense of accomplishment after overcoming the challenge as someone who fights the boss on their lonesome

3. It makes the online mode more populated, which benefits EVERYONE playing the game.

4. Playing with others is a fun experience in and of itself

As the debate about difficulty in games rages on, I hope more developers consider following this example set by the industry leader, From Software.

Click to shrink...

Yeah nope, I shouldn't be tied to multiplayer for having easy mode. Hard disagree.

 

[KayMote]

Personally, I love to die 30 times from a boss fight and then overcome it, if it's designed well.

 

[Legacy]

I think options are always good, but I disagree about losing being a waste of time. Learning from your mistakes and getting better is one of the joys of videogames that other entertainment doesn't really provide.

Click to shrink...

Completely agree