SleepSmasher

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,094
Australia
Unbelievable stuff:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/paulta..._source=share&utm_medium=ios_app#4a309d5c7697

The more I play Elder Scrolls Blades, the more I'm convinced it's some sort of psychological test to see how often the game can trigger players by forcing them to pay for…literally every possible thing you could ever pay for in a game.

Blades plays like a gamer's worst nightmare of the over-monetization of AAA video games. It's a look at what an Elder Scrolls title, or really any RPG, might look like if only those pesky console and PC players would just tolerate all the crap that mobile players put up with. But even for a mobile game, this takes things to a level I have rarely seen before.

Much more at the link.

Kinda off-topic: I don't really like Jim Sterling but there's content here for at least 3 of his Jimquisition videos.
 

Feep

Lead Designer, Iridium Studios
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
4,655
That's gross, but what the fuck is going on in that first paragraph? Does Forbes not have an editor checking this stuff?
 

Deleted member 8593

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
27,176
When I got my first silver chest and saw that it takes a whooping three hours to unlock it, I deleted the game. The game is a fucking joke.
 

Deleted member 49574

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 12, 2018
454
Norway
I'm a mobile gamer and this game ticks me off on so many levels. this game is basically a big timer..

crafting gear has a timer.. opening chests has a timer (you cant delete chests so you NEED to open them). building houses and shops has a timer. brewing potions has a timer.

When I got my first silver chest and saw that it takes a whooping three hours to unlock it, I deleted the game. The game is a fucking joke.

they changed that to 1 hour. still annoying, specially when you get can fill your inventory up easily with them and you cant delete them.
 

Juice

Member
Dec 28, 2017
555
I only play mobile games 0-5 minutes per day so I have been quite enjoying Blades. I hit all my timers and quit. Will never pay a dime, but enjoy it well enough.

It's actually similar to how I play Destiny 2 each day.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 

Lork

Member
Oct 25, 2017
844
I'm a mobile gamer and this game ticks me off on so many levels. this game is basically a big timer..

crafting gear has a timer.. opening chests has a timer (you cant delete chests so you NEED to open them). building houses and shops has a timer. brewing potions has a timer.



they changed that to 1 hour. still annoying, specially when you get can fill your inventory up easily with them and you cant delete them.
Does it at least start opening the next one automatically, or do you literally need to check in on the game every hour to clear your backlog?
 

MatrixMan.exe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,509
I don't understand why this is a glimpse into the potential future of AAA games. Article title at the very least seems incredibly sensationalist.

Especially considering it's a F2P Mobile title, not a AAA console/PC title.
 

EndlessNever

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,890
Some of the decisions the folks over at Bethesda have been making really could make you worry about their future game endeavors.

What the hell is going on over there?
 

Umbrella Carp

Banned
Jan 16, 2019
3,265
Some of the decisions the folks over at Bethesda have been making really could make you worry about their future game endeavors.

What the hell is going on over there?

Laziness and profit maximization. They along with half the industry realized they can put in minimal effort and still receive massive reward. Someone in this thread already stated they have earned 500,000 dollars from this thing already. I guarantee you it didn't cost anywhere near that much to develop this steaming pile.
 

Famassu

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,186
I don't understand why this is a glimpse into the potential future of AAA games. Article title at the very least seems incredibly sensationalist.

Especially considering it's a F2P Mobile title, not a AAA console/PC title.
It's in the article. These practices aren't in (many) retail/F2P console & PC games YET, but neither were other scummy F2P practices like loot boxes just some years ago. Having these in mobile games normalizes these practices to a fuckton of people and they won't react too negatively when they play Call of Duty: Mega Base with timer-infested base building added into it 3-5 years from now.
 

dex3108

Member
Oct 26, 2017
23,121
I don't understand why this is a glimpse into the potential future of AAA games. Article title at the very least seems incredibly sensationalist.

Especially considering it's a F2P Mobile title, not a AAA console/PC title.

That's how you make younger populations consider these kind of practices normal, then transfer them to AAA PC/console games. You can already see some of those things creeping up in some of the AAA releases.
 

Nerun

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,323
Well, it's bad, even for a typical f2p mobile game, when it comes to the amount and length of timers. I stopped playing around level 12 or so, because I didn't want to launch the game every 3-6 hours to open my gold/silver chests anymore. Not going to spend money every hour in order to get any loot or open boxes and it will get worse with higher quality chests for sure.

In the end it does work most of the time though in mobile, maybe not for Elder Scrolls, which is more likely to be played by "core gamers" than your typical mobile gamer. But mobile games make a s.... of money with in-app purchases, if you look at sales numbers for games in total. You can even take Fortnite or FIFA Ultimate Team as examples or PUBG Mobile or so many other games. I'm fine with spending some money at some point, but not going to spend money each year for the same stuff as in FIFA or on something like "diamonds" or stuff which is basically worthless within 5 seconds, as you spend those directly and need new ones like directly or a couple of hours later.

I even spend (way too much) money on World of Warships, but at least those expensive ships were used for like 20+ hours play time usually, so it was kind of okay....
 

MatrixMan.exe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,509
It's in the article. These practices aren't in (many) retail/F2P console & PC games YET, but neither were other scummy F2P practices like loot boxes. Having these in mobile games normalizes these practices to a fuckton of people and they won't react too negatively when they play Call of Duty: Mega Base with timer-infested base building added into it 3-5 years from now.

Yeah I get that but I feel that it's jumping the gun. Something to be weary of, but given that what flies in the mobile market is very different to what flies with the console and PC market, don't expect shit like this to be normal any time soon, let alone happen full stop.

Just seems a tad hyperbolic to me.
 

Mr_Zombie

Member
Oct 27, 2017
975
Poland
How did we end up with mobile gaming where the "pay or wait" model is so common? I can understand that your typical mobile gamer doesn't spend hours upon hours playing game in one sitting, it's usually "I'm waiting for a bus so I'm gonna play this game for few minutes", but still... the model is so stupid and so limiting. Especially since before mobile games there were already a lot of portable games that were perfect for quick gaming sessions.
 
OP
OP
SleepSmasher

SleepSmasher

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,094
Australia
How did we end up with mobile gaming where the "pay or wait" model is so common? I can understand that your typical mobile gamer doesn't spend hours upon hours playing game in one sitting, it's usually "I'm waiting for a bus so I'm gonna play this game for few minutes", but still... the model is so stupid and so limiting. Especially since before mobile games there were already a lot of portable games that were perfect for quick gaming sessions.
'Cause it works, apparently.
 
Oct 29, 2017
4,721
This is indeed your future. Look forward to console games joining suit soon enough...

I don't understand why this is a glimpse into the potential future of AAA games. Article title at the very least seems incredibly sensationalist.

Especially considering it's a F2P Mobile title, not a AAA console/PC title.

Ladies and gentlemen, we have a live boiling frog here!
 

Famassu

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,186
Yeah I get that but I feel that it's jumping the gun. Something to be weary of, but given that what flies in the mobile market is very different to what flies with the console and PC market, don't expect shit like this to be normal any time soon, let alone happen full stop.

Just seems a tad hyperbolic to me.
Of course it won't happen overnight. Bethesda might implement a town building mechanic into Elder Scrolls VI where the timer for finishing building something isn't 12 hours but 12 minutes. They'll justify this with "game balance" or something ("we can t give you access to boosts/perks from high level structures too quickly!"). More reasonable but then Bethesda might also offer a Builder's Booster pack that cuts all building/construction times by half. Or offer to insta-finish building by using an in-game premium currency. And them in their next game it will be a little more aggressive or priced a little higher or it gives better rewards.
 
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Deleted member 49574

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 12, 2018
454
Norway
How did we end up with mobile gaming where the "pay or wait" model is so common? I can understand that your typical mobile gamer doesn't spend hours upon hours playing game in one sitting, it's usually "I'm waiting for a bus so I'm gonna play this game for few minutes", but still... the model is so stupid and so limiting. Especially since before mobile games there were already a lot of portable games that were perfect for quick gaming sessions.

Most f2p mobile games only have 1 timer.. that is a stamina system

this game don't have stamina system instead they put timers on everything else.
 

oni-link

tag reference no one gets
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,173
UK
I don't understand why this is a glimpse into the potential future of AAA games. Article title at the very least seems incredibly sensationalist.

Especially considering it's a F2P Mobile title, not a AAA console/PC title.

Well F2P timers and mechanics have been creeping into AAA games for years
 

dstarMDA

Member
Dec 22, 2017
4,419
Laziness and profit maximization. They along with half the industry realized they can put in minimal effort and still receive massive reward. Someone in this thread already stated they have earned 500,000 dollars from this thing already. I guarantee you it didn't cost anywhere near that much to develop this steaming pile.

There's absolutely no chance this game cost less than 7/8 figures to develop. You are vastly underestimating how much big mobile titles cost nowadays.
 

fourfourfun

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,789
England
Most f2p mobile games only have 1 timer.. that is a stamina system

this game don't have stamina system instead they put timers on everything else.

I would say the two models are equally prevalent. The timer on everything model usually starts out at palatable minute here, minutes there, before descending into one day plus nightmares.

The rule of thumb for mobile games stands: if it doesn't cost to play, you're going to be playing an economics model and not a game.

I also echo the concern of this creeping into the third party AAA scene. These outfits are going to be the ones who are looked to when pushing next generation hardware. Not going to be so pretty if they are essentially sticking out very pretty coin op experiences.
 

ForgotPants

Member
Apr 9, 2019
17
India
There's absolutely no chance this game cost less than 7/8 figures to develop. You are vastly underestimating how much big mobile titles cost nowadays.

8 figures is probably a stretch. The game doesn't even look that good. Any money spent will be on the people who think up the worst possible ways to leech money out of players.
 

Cudpug

Member
Nov 9, 2017
3,631
The game sounds bad, but I'm surprised Forbes published the article in this state. It needed an additional proof before going live.

It's sad to see these exploitative monetisation practices and I hope, if they are not fixed to be more player friendly, critics rip the game to shreds.
 

Famassu

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,186
8 figures is probably a stretch. The game doesn't even look that good. Any money spent will be on the people who think up the worst possible ways to leech money out of players.
Aggressive, costly marketing is something that mobile games require in the crowded market to stand out and be noticed. Millions upon millions of dollars even in the relatively short term. And they need to keep marketing in the long term to keep drawing in new potential whales as old ones are tapped out.
 

Vintage

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,307
Europe
How did we end up with mobile gaming where the "pay or wait" model is so common? I can understand that your typical mobile gamer doesn't spend hours upon hours playing game in one sitting, it's usually "I'm waiting for a bus so I'm gonna play this game for few minutes", but still... the model is so stupid and so limiting. Especially since before mobile games there were already a lot of portable games that were perfect for quick gaming sessions.

The whole F2P thing is a psychological manipulation wonder, it's like a rabbit hole to the exploitation of humans' subconsciousness.

From gamer's perspective, it pretends to be not P2W, because you can still get the benefits without paying, you only have to wait. The initial timers are very low, so you get hooked on the game not expecting it to turn into a gated shitshow.
From developer's perspective, there's 2 outcomes, both great for developer: gamers either pay, or become returning users who logs in every few hours. By opening the app frequently, players are trained to develop a subconscious habit that reminds them to open the app every few hours, eventually leading to them paying once they hit a wall of crazy high timers.
 

Ryengeku

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,694
Georgia, US
Maybe mobile gamers are the true gamers. They don't mind spending way more than $60 dollars on a game using a phone/tablet that averages out to $700 to $1000 every 2 years(which is waaaaay more than a console) to play some of these more demanding mobile titles.
 

Mr.Deadshot

Member
Oct 27, 2017
20,285
I don't see how any of this will be implemented in the next AAA Elder Scrolls game.

And all the shit Bethesda is getting these days, TESO is one of the better examples in the MMORPG marked how to monetize GaaS.
 

Einbroch

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,182
I play a lot of shitty mobile games, but man, this one is extra shitty. I'm shocked it's as popular as it is.
 

oni-link

tag reference no one gets
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,173
UK
Maybe mobile gamers are the true gamers. They don't mind spending way more than $60 dollars on a game using a phone/tablet that averages out to $700 to $1000 every 2 years(which is waaaaay more than a console) to play some of these more demanding mobile titles.

Phones have more uses than just games, and not everyone upgrades every few years

Also a lot of these games are exploitative and designed in a way to keep players spending indefinitely

Blades sounds like an awful game
 

ForgotPants

Member
Apr 9, 2019
17
India
Aggressive, costly marketing is something that mobile games require in the crowded market to stand out and be noticed. Millions upon millions of dollars even in the relatively short term. And they need to keep marketing in the long term to keep drawing in new potential whales as old ones are tapped out.
Yeah, marketing sure, not development. For a studio like Bethesda to make a shitty game like this probably cost a few million where most of it was likely staffing cost.
 

doemaaan

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,755
WOW. I quit playing right after the first enemy in the first main mission. The combat was that boring imo. I can't believe I missed out on all of this. Reading it makes me sick to my stomach.
 

Deleted member 2254

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
21,467
Sounds horrible. Hyperbolic about the future of gaming? Maybe, but this game sounds like a dumpster fire in terms of monetization. Hard skip.