Again, FFVII Compilation, especially CC, was ripe with anime foolishness (even MORE so than FFVII prime).
Elements of the Final Fantasy VII established in the FFVII Compilation series will be included in the Remake
- Thread starter CenturionNami
- Start date
its more that cloud is the chosen one than that anyone can kill sephiroth, tifa was pissed (she already started her training) and almost died trying to kill sephiroth, the slash from behind against sephiroth was not the impressive part its when cloud is impaled and he won in a fight of strenght against sephiroth and pushed him to the lifestream.
and zack was not caught by behind even in the original game he noticed the shots before it arrived, the reason the original had 2 grunts was probably they didnt want to make something more elaborate since that was an optional scene in the original.
Zack was in a tank for four years then had to go immediately on the run after breaking out while also dragging a comatose Cloud around. He was likely running on fumes at that point.
I can just laugh about everyone who thought its gonna be a 1:1 remake.
Also that statement is so vague that it can mean anything.
Dont worry it will not be drastic and will most likely just flesh a couple of scenes and add more Zack.
Also that statement is so vague that it can mean anything.
Dont worry it will not be drastic and will most likely just flesh a couple of scenes and add more Zack.
That incident has also been told THREE different ways.
FFVII: Machine gun.
Last Order: Sniper round that Zack jumped in front of to protect Cloud. (Most plausible)
Crisis Core: EVE-RY-ONEEEE
Like with many elements of the FFVIIR in general, I'm hoping for the best, but preparing for the worst, lol.
Excellent points with both posts!
I really loved Zack in the original game, but between the retcons that have a huge knock-on effect on both Cloud and Aerith's characters, and the more cliched take on what could have been a nuanced version of Zack in CC, I'm not the biggest fan of his Compilation incarnation. I found him irritating in Kingdom Hearts: Birth By Sleep, too.
Between Zack and Genesis in CC, the dialogue was an endless loop of hero-hero-hero-hero-oh god somebody make them stop-hero-hero-hero
This!! Crisis Core even made me dislike Aerith, who I adore. The interactions between her and Zack were pretty grating. I'm not entirely sure there was a full brain cell between them at some points, lawd.
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My biggest complaints regarding Genesis are:
a) that they retconned one of the most iconic scenes in FFVII to put Genesis in it. Even worse, it is ultimately Genesis' encouragement/gaslighting that is the final straw that triggers Sephiroth's descent into darkness.
b) both Genesis and Angeal's character arcs ultimately undermine Sephiroth's, because by the time Nibelheim happens, both Zack and the player have already experienced Angeal and Genesis' mental deterioration, have fought both of them, and now they are now seemingly dead. (Didn't stick for Genesis, though.) When Sephiroth finally goes mad, and we have to fight him, it's just... eh. You too? Whatevs. Been there, done that. Twice.
The inclusion of Genesis and Angeal in general are also detrimental to setting up Sephiroth's descent into darkness/his pre-FFVII arc. In the original, Sephiroth was alone, he was the best of the best, he was special/one of a kind, etc-etc. It's a pretty isolating and vulnerable place to be in, not to mention that it would give him one hell of an ego. Add in Jenova, and it's a recipe for disaster - and it is, which is the outcome in the original game. With CC's retcon of Sephiroth's friendships with Genesis and Angeal and their own issues with humanity, not to mention Sephiroth's budding friendship with Zack, the set-up for Sephiroth's arc starts to fall apart to the point that Sephiroth's madness loses a lot of its initial impact, and now the cause and effect of his choices don't make as much sense as they originally did.
It's a similar issue with Cloud and Zack. There were quite a few iconic moments in the original game with Cloud that now feel hollow after Crisis Core, because Zack kinda did everything first. It was tragic in the original that Cloud had adopted elements of Zack, but CC overdoes this connection/homage, to the point it becomes borderline fourth-wall breaking. Remember that cool moment with Cloud? ...yeah, Zack did it first.
Excellent points with both posts!
I really loved Zack in the original game, but between the retcons that have a huge knock-on effect on both Cloud and Aerith's characters, and the more cliched take on what could have been a nuanced version of Zack in CC, I'm not the biggest fan of his Compilation incarnation. I found him irritating in Kingdom Hearts: Birth By Sleep, too.
Between Zack and Genesis in CC, the dialogue was an endless loop of hero-hero-hero-hero-oh god somebody make them stop-hero-hero-hero
This!! Crisis Core even made me dislike Aerith, who I adore. The interactions between her and Zack were pretty grating. I'm not entirely sure there was a full brain cell between them at some points, lawd.
(Credit)
(Credit)
My biggest complaints regarding Genesis are:
a) that they retconned one of the most iconic scenes in FFVII to put Genesis in it. Even worse, it is ultimately Genesis' encouragement/gaslighting that is the final straw that triggers Sephiroth's descent into darkness.
b) both Genesis and Angeal's character arcs ultimately undermine Sephiroth's, because by the time Nibelheim happens, both Zack and the player have already experienced Angeal and Genesis' mental deterioration, have fought both of them, and now they are now seemingly dead. (Didn't stick for Genesis, though.) When Sephiroth finally goes mad, and we have to fight him, it's just... eh. You too? Whatevs. Been there, done that. Twice.
The inclusion of Genesis and Angeal in general are also detrimental to setting up Sephiroth's descent into darkness/his pre-FFVII arc. In the original, Sephiroth was alone, he was the best of the best, he was special/one of a kind, etc-etc. It's a pretty isolating and vulnerable place to be in, not to mention that it would give him one hell of an ego. Add in Jenova, and it's a recipe for disaster - and it is, which is the outcome in the original game. With CC's retcon of Sephiroth's friendships with Genesis and Angeal and their own issues with humanity, not to mention Sephiroth's budding friendship with Zack, the set-up for Sephiroth's arc starts to fall apart to the point that Sephiroth's madness loses a lot of its initial impact, and now the cause and effect of his choices don't make as much sense as they originally did.
It's a similar issue with Cloud and Zack. There were quite a few iconic moments in the original game with Cloud that now feel hollow after Crisis Core, because Zack kinda did everything first. It was tragic in the original that Cloud had adopted elements of Zack, but CC overdoes this connection/homage, to the point it becomes borderline fourth-wall breaking. Remember that cool moment with Cloud? ...yeah, Zack did it first.
Ah I see, so less the character himself and more his actions and relations to the other characters that affect their arcs negatively?Like with many elements of the FFVIIR in general, I'm hoping for the best, but preparing for the worst, lol.
Excellent points with both posts!
I really loved Zack in the original game, but between the retcons that have a huge knock-on effect on both Cloud and Aerith's characters, and the more cliched take on what could have been a nuanced version of Zack in CC, I'm not the biggest fan of his Compilation incarnation. I found him irritating in Kingdom Hearts: Birth By Sleep, too.
Between Zack and Genesis in CC, the dialogue was an endless loop of hero-hero-hero-hero-oh god somebody make them stop-hero-hero-hero
This!! Crisis Core even made me dislike Aerith, who I adore. The interactions between her and Zack were pretty grating. I'm not entirely sure there was a full brain cell between them at some points, lawd.
(Credit)
(Credit)
My biggest complaints regarding Genesis are:
a) that they retconned one of the most iconic scenes in FFVII to put Genesis in it. Even worse, it is ultimately Genesis' encouragement/gaslighting that is the final straw that triggers Sephiroth's descent into darkness.
b) both Genesis and Angeal's character arcs ultimately undermine Sephiroth's, because by the time Nibelheim happens, both Zack and the player have already experienced Angeal and Genesis' mental deterioration, have fought both of them, and now they are now seemingly dead. (Didn't stick for Genesis, though.) When Sephiroth finally goes mad, and we have to fight him, it's just... eh. You too? Whatevs. Been there, done that. Twice.
The inclusion of Genesis and Angeal in general are also detrimental to setting up Sephiroth's descent into darkness/his pre-FFVII arc. In the original, Sephiroth was alone, he was the best of the best, he was special/one of a kind, etc-etc. It's a pretty isolating and vulnerable place to be in, not to mention that it would give him one hell of an ego. Add in Jenova, and it's a recipe for disaster - and it is, which is the outcome in the original game. With CC's retcon of Sephiroth's friendships with Genesis and Angeal and their own issues with humanity, not to mention Sephiroth's budding friendship with Zack, the set-up for Sephiroth's arc starts to fall apart to the point that Sephiroth's madness (and all the horror that follows) loses a lot of its impact, and now the cause and effect of his choices don't make as much sense as they originally did.
It's a similar issue with Cloud and Zack. There were quite a few iconic moments in the original game with Cloud that now feel hollow after Crisis Core, because Zack kinda did everything first. It was tragic in the original that Cloud had adopted elements of Zack, but CC overdoes this connection/homage, to the point it becomes borderline fourth-wall breaking. Remember that cool moment with Cloud? ...yeah, Zack did it first.
I'll admit my second playthrough of CC wasn't as enjoyable, and the plot goes off a damn cliff at Nibelheim(which should have been the BEST PART), but it's great seeing Sephiroth be just a normal guy. Once Zack's mentor bites it, things start going downhill.
The music is beyond reproach though.
The music is beyond reproach though.
Oh god, please no Genesis/Angeal or deepground. I am totally all for more Zack and some of the more FF7 canon-adhering compilation stuff, but there was so much dumb shit they added to the compilation just for the sake of being edgy and establishing more conflict and uggghhh pls spare me. 😩 🤢
I love Zack and love Crisis Core, but aside from Deepground I don't know what they'd put into Midgar from the compilation. Uh...Remnants? Genesis? All of it sounds like a terrible idea. It's like the stuff that was shoved into the prequels in Star Wars. Sure the original still exists, but when the "special edition" is filled with clutter and subtle things that undermine the themes of the original and is sold everywhere, it becomes the norm and now the old one is "bad."
I feel like every thread is people saying that everyone who is upset about these kinds of things wants a "1:1" remake when it's more of a bummer to be talking about this game for almost 20 years and then when a new shiny version of it comes out it's possible that it will be a completely different story. You can say the "main story beats will be the same" all day long but Sephiroth being in the intro, the ghosts, and other things prove that's not going to be the case. You may not understand why that changes the story and tone but it does.
It doesn't need to be 1:1 but it doesn't need to be 1000:1 either.
Changing Jessie to a cheerful waifu character changes the story.
Showing Sephiroth before the "new players" know who it is changes the story.
Having ghosts in the first meeting with Aerith changes the story.
And that's all to existing scenes. If we're for sure getting compilation content out of it on top of "new" content made from the ground up to fill the rest of the runtime I feel like Lando. This deal just keeps getting worse.
For players who played the original, they have to see Nomura's fanfiction shoved into it, and for new players, they're not even going to get to experience some of the greatest parts of the game for quite some time and will have Nomura's fiction as their norm before getting to the rest.
Here's hoping all of this goes down and the game comes out with an excellent new take on the story and I eat crow. Because the alternative is really depressing.
I feel like every thread is people saying that everyone who is upset about these kinds of things wants a "1:1" remake when it's more of a bummer to be talking about this game for almost 20 years and then when a new shiny version of it comes out it's possible that it will be a completely different story. You can say the "main story beats will be the same" all day long but Sephiroth being in the intro, the ghosts, and other things prove that's not going to be the case. You may not understand why that changes the story and tone but it does.
It doesn't need to be 1:1 but it doesn't need to be 1000:1 either.
Changing Jessie to a cheerful waifu character changes the story.
Showing Sephiroth before the "new players" know who it is changes the story.
Having ghosts in the first meeting with Aerith changes the story.
And that's all to existing scenes. If we're for sure getting compilation content out of it on top of "new" content made from the ground up to fill the rest of the runtime I feel like Lando. This deal just keeps getting worse.
For players who played the original, they have to see Nomura's fanfiction shoved into it, and for new players, they're not even going to get to experience some of the greatest parts of the game for quite some time and will have Nomura's fiction as their norm before getting to the rest.
Here's hoping all of this goes down and the game comes out with an excellent new take on the story and I eat crow. Because the alternative is really depressing.
it is mentioned in the OG, but its just two lines of dialogue afaik
Barret
There was this guy who studied 'Planetary Life' here.
He couldn't take things the way they were, so he went to Midgar to form AVALANCHE.
I don't expect Genesis. Gackt is the entire reason Crisis Core can't be re-released.
More Zack stuff, absolutely. A reference to Hollander or Angeal, maybe. Maybe some Deepground hints (like a Resident Evil style file or something). But really, the only major thing I expect to see touched on is Zack.
Edit: Oh, maybe the Before Crisis stuff too. That game actually gave a pretty substantial backstory to AVALANCHE, Rufus, and The Turks. And it was actually good.
More Zack stuff, absolutely. A reference to Hollander or Angeal, maybe. Maybe some Deepground hints (like a Resident Evil style file or something). But really, the only major thing I expect to see touched on is Zack.
Edit: Oh, maybe the Before Crisis stuff too. That game actually gave a pretty substantial backstory to AVALANCHE, Rufus, and The Turks. And it was actually good.
All of what you wrote x100.
Crisis Core is embarassing. Horrible writing, butchered iconic moments from the original(GUYS ISNT IT SO CLEVER THAT ALL THE STUFF THAT HAPPENED TO CLOUD ACTUALLY HAPPENED TO ZACK FIRST? ) and some of the most insulting additions to the compliation.
Zacks design is the only positive about that mess. Aerith gets her personality completely sapped and instead we learn everything she does is for a dude she liked as a teen because he told her to.
3:00-310 is basically Aerith:
I can only hope that what they take from the compilatiom is minor. I don't want to watch Zack die in the most eye roll worthy way possible. Let it be brutal and quick so that the loss hits harder. No anime hero goodbye like CC.
OP
OP
All this salt is making Genesis's return soooooooooooooo worth it.
Just a little pointer, putting your words in all caps isn't going to change anything. Gackt, the three stooges, and Zack MY Puppy are in. You need to accept it.
I don't know why this is a shock to so many people. As a remake, it's natural to include references to other games in the Compilation in order to tie everything together more cleanly. Heck, part of this first episode could have plot/character points involving the fact that in Before Crisis, AVALANCHE were the bad guys.
All this salt and rage is glorious.
Just a little pointer, putting your words in all caps isn't going to change anything. Gackt, the three stooges, and Zack MY Puppy are in. You need to accept it.
I know you're being (partially) facetious, but forget it, I'm going to ask a serious question.
Why do so many people prefer additions that if they came first, FF7 would've never taken off? Like, there's a pretty big reason FF7 is a timeless video game milestone, and it's not just because it was the first big RPG on the PS1. Damn game's a work of art. It may have had a lot of anime nonsense, but it was incredibly well-executed nonsense that, for the most part, knew where to draw the line and resonate emotionally with a good deal of mankind.
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The entire Nibelheim section was mind-numbingly retcon city awful. CC's fine until they start screwing with canon.Also just remember Crisis Core is the game that took this design of Teenage Tifa:
and sexualized it by turning it into this:
Because they had to make sure the 15 year old was sexy!
Look, this series is my favorite video game franchise, by far, but I've come to accept that every game has some major writing issues. As long as the story isn't uneventful as sin like XII and XV I'm good
The only extended lore I would want is Zack, Jenova and Lucretia. Maybe roll in some Sephiroth pre-degradation. But I don't think I can accept the CC, Dirge, or Advent Children stuff. They all seem so dated and out-of-fashion now, especially after how amazing they updated everything in the remake.
Woot! Now they can use that awesome Chaos design for Vincent from DoC. We also get to see the majestic Genesis once again!
I've not played any of the compilation stuff and I only sorta half-watched Advent Children many, many years ago but it seems like people have issue with cheesy anime stuff? Like.. FFVII is one of my favorite games of all time, having been amazed by it in my formative years, but let's not pretend the original game isn't pure cheesy anime-inspired fare to begin with. I guess maybe the compilation takes it to another level or something? I dunno.
I personally wont sweat it. They aren't gonna shoe in everything from CC. Including elements here and there is fine. They aren't going to make Remake about Crises Core, that's what Crises Core is for.
I haven't played crisis core since when it originally released and all of you are proving to me that I remember very little of what took place. Though the more I read, thr more I think I may have "willingly forgot" these things. I'm wanting less and less of CC in the game as I "remember" more.
Yup same
This has potential to ruin the storytelling. I mean... IF you are going to do it they need to completely rewrite and reimagine the characters and story beats introduced. And even then it should all be background noise and easter eggs or whatever
The focus of expanding the story should focus solely on the main cast
Nomura and Gackt are friends if I remember, and well Nomura does what he wants.
Personally I liked DoC and a lot of the compilation stuff, but it doesn't bother me if it is or isn't in.
No idea how anyone could've gotten "chosen one" from Cloud when the whole point of his character was that he only deluded himself into believing that he was special, ultimately succeeding in spite of failing to realize his original ambitions, not because he was destined to become a hero.
For real, FF7 is as far from a chosen one narrative as it gets.
I really like Cloud for this reason as well. He kills Sephiroth by being sneaky and fueled by anger, despite being much weaker which most people can relate to, contrary to a chosen one narrative. This along with the struggles he has during the main story, I can't think of a better lead character in Final Fantasy history. Ignoring the emo Cloud in the compilation stuff, which I guess we will get at some point now.
Like with many elements of the FFVIIR in general, I'm hoping for the best, but preparing for the worst, lol.
Excellent points with both posts!
I really loved Zack in the original game, but between the retcons that have a huge knock-on effect on both Cloud and Aerith's characters, and the more cliched take on what could have been a nuanced version of Zack in CC, I'm not the biggest fan of his Compilation incarnation. I found him irritating in Kingdom Hearts: Birth By Sleep, too.
Between Zack and Genesis in CC, the dialogue was an endless loop of hero-hero-hero-hero-oh god somebody make them stop-hero-hero-hero
This!! Crisis Core even made me dislike Aerith, who I adore. The interactions between her and Zack were pretty grating. I'm not entirely sure there was a full brain cell between them at some points, lawd.
(Credit)
(Credit)
My biggest complaints regarding Genesis are:
a) that they retconned one of the most iconic scenes in FFVII to put Genesis in it. Even worse, it is ultimately Genesis' encouragement/gaslighting that is the final straw that triggers Sephiroth's descent into darkness.
b) both Genesis and Angeal's character arcs ultimately undermine Sephiroth's, because by the time Nibelheim happens, both Zack and the player have already experienced Angeal and Genesis' mental deterioration, have fought both of them, and now they are now seemingly dead. (Didn't stick for Genesis, though.) When Sephiroth finally goes mad, and we have to fight him, it's just... eh. You too? Whatevs. Been there, done that. Twice.
The inclusion of Genesis and Angeal in general are also detrimental to setting up Sephiroth's descent into darkness/his pre-FFVII arc. In the original, Sephiroth was alone, he was the best of the best, he was special/one of a kind, etc-etc. It's a pretty isolating and vulnerable place to be in, not to mention that it would give him one hell of an ego. Add in Jenova, and it's a recipe for disaster - and it is, which is the outcome in the original game. With CC's retcon of Sephiroth's friendships with Genesis and Angeal and their own issues with humanity, not to mention Sephiroth's budding friendship with Zack, the set-up for Sephiroth's arc starts to fall apart to the point that Sephiroth's madness loses a lot of its initial impact, and now the cause and effect of his choices don't make as much sense as they originally did.
It's a similar issue with Cloud and Zack. There were quite a few iconic moments in the original game with Cloud that now feel hollow after Crisis Core, because Zack kinda did everything first. It was tragic in the original that Cloud had adopted elements of Zack, but CC overdoes this connection/homage, to the point it becomes borderline fourth-wall breaking. Remember that cool moment with Cloud? ...yeah, Zack did it first.
Ugh, that sounds horrible. This is why I am wary of sequels for games that weren't designed to have sequels in the first place.
The chosen one is a term to the hero of the story that has special powers, cloud is not normal he's special, even before the experiment, he displayed incredible strenght more than Zack, that's not normal. Cloud in his prime is the strongest human being of that world.
He's like Gohan big hidden Power.