smashballTaz

Member
Oct 29, 2017
749
I can't wait, and I had no hope of an update as big as this happening for Elite Dangerous ever in the future, especially since they stopped the Galnet News service in-game and Community Goals, was it late last year?

I still enjoy exploring barren planets in my space buggy. Hopefully there will be more varied environments with things like caves and rock formations. I'm sure that in a previously planned planetary update that they showed screenshots of ice planets with very extravagant and detailed ice stalagtites and other ice formations.

I'm REALLY excited about this.
 

Love Machine

Member
Oct 29, 2017
4,279
Tokyo, Japan
Why is it developers think we want to explore deserted moons? Its just dirt and rocks. Star Citizen has the same problem. You're both being showed up by a tiny indie team called Hello Games.
Don't be "that guy", Thatguy. Elite Dangerous has it's problems, but they're very different problems from Star Citizen's.

And while I guess you think you're being clever with the Hello Games comment, the reality is that each of these "space games" scratch different itches for different people. NMS is very impressive, and fun for various reasons. But I wouldn't play it for the flight model, or the combat, to name a couple of things.
 

HBK

Member
Oct 30, 2017
8,073
I'll probably be there to test it, but based on FD delivery the past five years, I 100% expect a bug-ridden mess of poorly thought-out features.
 

Alek

Games User Researcher
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
8,522
Why is it developers think we want to explore deserted moons? Its just dirt and rocks. Star Citizen has the same problem. You're both being showed up by a tiny indie team called Hello Games.

Elite is a space sim right? So the lush planets of No Man's Sky just aren't realistic, at least not in the quantities that they're found in that game. Plus, they're hardly more interesting. Making a planet purple with nothing but the same resources you can find on any other planet doesn't make it feel good to explore.

In any case, I think this will be focused on exploring the human settlements on these planets / moons. Which could be cool if they are well designed. It'd certainly add more variety to the game.
 

HBK

Member
Oct 30, 2017
8,073
Can someone explain to me what elite dangerous is? It's a vr game? A mmo? A series with multiple entries? I don't get it.
Technically, it's all of that.

It's the seminal space-sim. Well, it's the fourth entry in this series. It's "Elite 4" but they called it "Elite: Dangerous".

It's kind of an MMO, except an MMO in a 1:1 sized Milky Way, meaning you'll only see other players around some hot-spots (depending on the game situational context). There's a "solo mode" if you don't want to bother with PvPers which can be annoying (note you can't play offline, but you can play either "solo" or in "private groups").

It has VR support on PC and is probably the best possible VR experience ever (even after all those good VR games recently).

It's also the grindiest game I've ever played. Like, really really grindy.

As a game it's kind of the mess, but as an astronomy geek it's hard to pass on this game. Even if it has strong Sci-fi elements in it, it's kind of "realistic" and well has a 1:1 sized Milky Way (our galaxy, for those who don't know jack about astronomy), a good "flight model", great sound design, a cool UI, well it's a lot a good stuff but it's all built around the idea of a gigantic sandbox with little depth in most aspects (except combat basically). So it's all about if you like stars and ships and pew pew.
 

Luyrar

Banned
Jul 19, 2018
269
Sell me on this game, will i see a Lot of players and pve during sessions? Can u team up with another players..etc? Exploring the galaxy is Fun/engaging?

I love Sea of thieves, is it kinda sot in space?
 

Deleted member 22070

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
498
I've been waiting for this forever, super excited but at the same time, very cautious.

IMHO what this really needs is more life, ambient stuff : not talking about life on planets everywhere as this game is not NMS nor should it be. But in places where it should, where it would really help sell the whole vibe without taking away anything from the game and its mechanics and just make sense like stations, social hubs etc. Even if it's not tied to gameplay mechanics, just for the sake of ambiance and immersion : give me bars and hubs with lots of NPCs (even if you can't intereact with them), chatter, screens with Galnet news, bunch of minigames perhaps, big window bays you can stand in front of staring outside seeing other ships coming in and doing their stuff. This game really needs to "let go" of some of its austerity, just enough to make you feel really immersed when you're in the bubble and colozined space and make the exploration part that much more, well... explorationer. Some of us really do geek out and have fun just with pretty barebones systems when it comes to exploration, like say seeing this or that planet and just deciding to go find it, land on it and realizing it has these or those characteristics is a trip for some of my friends and I. But to me, it absolutely needs some pretty intense and very obvious "activity" and "life" when you're in the bubble. That feeling of constant activity around you, feeling secure and surrounded by people and stuff before deciding to go venture out in the unknown is key to sell the whole deal. If these stations all just end up being huge empty spaces, that's gonna be depressing as fuck and not something I really wanna be part of.

I'm not holding my breath as I don't think that's what's gonna happen, and not for technical reasons as that wouldn't be hard or complicated at all really, but more like an artistic vision they never seemed willing to embrace, which is a shame cause I'm entirely convinced this would be for the betterment of the game.

I mean, imagine the level of quality they always put out purely on the execution and technical part with the sound design, scale etc. applied to all I've just said ? Fuck, that's always been my dream game.
 
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Bansai

Teyvat Traveler
Member
Oct 28, 2017
11,438
Space legs are cool and all but exploring vast emptiness or just walking isn't gonna be enough to get me back into the game.

You need to let me walk around a station, interact with people, take some quests, that kind of stuff.
 

smashballTaz

Member
Oct 29, 2017
749
Sell me on this game, will i see a Lot of players and pve during sessions? Can u team up with another players..etc? Exploring the galaxy is Fun/engaging?

I love Sea of thieves, is it kinda sot in space?

It depends where you go. In the busy trade hub areas, yeah there will be a lot of players. I've not engaged with PVP much, but yeah you can use warp interdictors to tractor beam people out of their warp tunnel and attack them. You can scan their cargo to see if they hold valuables. There are safe and unsafe security rating on systems, the higher the safety number, in theory, the sooner the cops come to attack you. Assuming that the player has the 'alert cops to anyone attacking me' on.

A lot of it is empty space, but you can travel far away from the main 'bubble' and engage in exploration too, try and be the first discoverer of an Earth-like planet and have your name permanently attached to that for everyone to see once you cash in your Exploration Data to a station.

I really love it, the sound design is some of the best I've heard, especially if you are a space nerd. It can be slow-paced, but it depends what you want to engage in really.

I would watch a few video guides to it, and see if you like the look of it. Especially any by Obsidian Ant on youtube. I'll try and find a good one.




 

HylianSeven

Shin Megami TC - Community Resetter
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,379
Unfortunate.

I'm curious what happens if you're flying/driving in VR, land and get out. Does it just say "Take of the headset"?

No base building is an interesting choice, and I hope it's not indicative of further limitations. I kind of wish they did base building much like camps in Fallout 76: They disappear when you log out, if you log in and someone else's camp is there, you can either move your camp for free, or try a different server.

I have the lifetime expansion pass, so fortunately I will get this for free.
 

Luyrar

Banned
Jul 19, 2018
269
It depends where you go. In the busy trade hub areas, yeah there will be a lot of players. I've not engaged with PVP much, but yeah you can use warp interdictors to tractor beam people out of their warp tunnel and attack them. You can scan their cargo to see if they hold valuables. There are safe and unsafe security rating on systems, the higher the safety number, in theory, the sooner the cops come to attack you. Assuming that the player has the 'alert cops to anyone attacking me' on.

A lot of it is empty space, but you can travel far away from the main 'bubble' and engage in exploration too, try and be the first discoverer of an Earth-like planet and have your name permanently attached to that for everyone to see once you cash in your Exploration Data to a station.

I really love it, the sound design is some of the best I've heard, especially if you are a space nerd. It can be slow-paced, but it depends what you want to engage in really.

I would watch a few video guides to it, and see if you like the look of it. Especially any by Obsidian Ant on youtube. I'll try and find a good one.






Thank you, i'll check it out.
 

RedSwirl

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,135
A lot of the barren, atmospheric planets in Elite have oceans. How are they gonna handle that?
 

Anton Sugar

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,946
A lot of the barren, atmospheric planets in Elite have oceans. How are they gonna handle that?
Their plan has always been to include fully realized, developed worlds, including oceans. I think they have even mentioned that ocean exploration is one of the features they want to add, though I guess I could be mixing up my space games.
 

HylianSeven

Shin Megami TC - Community Resetter
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,379
Their plan has always been to include fully realized, developed worlds, including oceans. I think they have even mentioned that ocean exploration is one of the features they want to add, though I guess I could be mixing up my space games.
I think ocean exploration, if it ever comes, will be in another expansion 5 years from now.
 

RedSwirl

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,135
Their plan has always been to include fully realized, developed worlds, including oceans. I think they have even mentioned that ocean exploration is one of the features they want to add, though I guess I could be mixing up my space games.
On that, I've noticed all the water worlds in the game are just rocky planets with global oceans. There don't seem to be any actual "ocean planets" that are just pure H2O from the upper atmosphere all the way down to the icy mantle layer, which are theorized to exist.
 

Anton Sugar

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,946
On that, I've noticed all the water worlds in the game are just rocky planets with global oceans. There don't seem to be any actual "ocean planets" that are just pure H2O from the upper atmosphere all the way down to the icy mantle layer, which are theorized to exist.
Yeah, we need some Solaris worlds.
 

TheRed

Member
Oct 31, 2017
2,667
No VR is really disappointing. I assume they just didn't want to go through the trouble of making motion controls work? Though if on foot was third person I think it would work fine in VR using normal controllers
 

Burny

Member
Oct 26, 2017
585
Oh shit, what about gravity?
What about it do you mean exactly?

So far, gravity on planets in Elite differs significantly. Which shows in how you ship behaves and how your SRV (surface buggy) behaves. I suppose they'll let gravity have effects on how the player controls with the jetpack. Farther jumps with low gravity and shorter jumps on high gravity worlds.

Gravity in ships and stations is quite an interesting other aspect. Iirc the ship's interior in space of Elite was supposed to be a zero gravity environment, without magical gravity fields or the likes. But the teaser doesn't indicate whether ship interiors or space stations will be accessible at all or if they still stick to this earlier peinciple...
 

Mike Armbrust

Member
Oct 25, 2017
528
I really hope this update includes ship interiors as well. I'm so excited that space legs are finally coming but I hope they are used to increase immersion and not just add planet focused gameplay.
 

Burny

Member
Oct 26, 2017
585
I really hope this update includes ship interiors as well. I'm so excited that space legs are finally coming but I hope they are used to increase immersion and not just add planet focused gameplay.
I'm with you on ship - and station (!) - interiors. I'd want to see them for immersion's sake. So long as any travel through them is optional after they've been reached at least once and I can just teleport to quest locations whenver I do not feel like trudging for five to ten minutes through a gigantic station, just to skip through some mandatory NPC interaction to get/deliver a "quest". It's called player agenda and Frontier so far is, very poor at offering it in Elite, unfortunatley, instead opting for shoving "immershun" down everybody's throat. Works for some people, but unfortunatley not for me anymore after I've had my fill of braindead travel times to be allowed to look at randomely generated mission boards.

But who am I kidding? I rather expect Frontier to go the same route Star Citizen is taking, before offering players a way to teleport somewhere, where they can do what they actually want to do in the game:

Star Citizen - Hab to ship travel times

That video compares pure, on foot travel time between player login (?) location and getting to a ship in various ports. Nearly 1:30min for some locations, but around 5min +/- for quite a few others. Includes neigh on non-interactive virtual train rides. The notion rather disgusts me. It's absolutely not that people who want that, shouldn't have it. It's the notion that somewhere there are "game designers", who think that kind of pure, braindead travel overhead should be mandatory every. single. time. you have to do a menial thing, like getting to your ship in a space game. And i even like open world games. So long as exploration is rewarded by offering quick travel to discovered locations whenever you need to backtrack and don't feel like crossing the game world again.
 
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HylianSeven

Shin Megami TC - Community Resetter
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,379
I'm with you on ship - and station (!) - interiors. I'd want to see them for immersion's sake. So long as any travel through them is optional after they've been reached at least once and I can just teleport to quest locations whenver I do not feel like trudging for five to ten minutes through a gigantic station, just to skip through some mandatory NPC interaction to get/deliver a "quest". It's called player agenda and Frontier so far is, very poor at offering it in Elite, unfortunatley, instead opting for shoving immershun down everybody's throat. Works for some people, but unfortunatley not for me anymore after I've had my fill of braindead travel times to be allowed to look at randomely generated mission boards.

But who am I kidding? I rather expect Frontier to go the same route Star Citizen is taking, before offering players a way to teleport somewhere, where they can do what they actually want to do in the game:

Star Citizen - Hab to ship travel times

That video compares pure, on foot travel time between player login (?) location and gettin gto a ship in varios ports. Nearly 1:30min for some locations, but around 5min +/- for quite a few others. The notion rather disgusts me.
Ah it looks like Star Citizen subscribes to the Elite community's "Ship delivery should cost money AND take an absurd amount of time, muh realism!" philosophy.
 

Burny

Member
Oct 26, 2017
585
Ah it looks like Star Citizen subscribes to the Elite community's "Ship delivery should cost money AND take an absurd amount of time, muh realism!" philosophy.
Star Citizen seems to follow the same paradigm of forcing "immershun" down everybody's throat at every corner without consideration for game design, but just dials it up to 10,000. Edit: Could be a side effect of so many people having payed 400$+ for their Star Citizen ship models, with toilets, kitchens and whatnot. At that price, you better also have a bowel movement simulation, to validate the work that went into putting toilets in there! :p
 

RedSwirl

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,135
Star Citizen seems to follow the same paradigm of forcing "immershun" down everybody's throat at every corner without consideration for game design, but just dials it up to 10,000. Edit: Could be a side effect of so many people having payed 400$+ for their Star Citizen ship models, with toilets, kitchens and whatnot. At that price, you better also have a bowel movement simulation, to validate the work that went into putting toilets in there! :p
Part of it is the money. Part of it is that Star Citizen and Elite aren't actually for mainstream audience. They're (SC in particular) trying to rekindle 90's Origin Systems type shit for people who really want that mundanity and sense of verisimilitude that's been lost in even most PC games these days. A lot of that goes against what many consider fun game design these days. No Man's Sky is all the way in the other direction.
 

Burny

Member
Oct 26, 2017
585
Part of it is the money. Part of it is that Star Citizen and Elite aren't actually for mainstream audience. They're (SC in particular) trying to rekindle 90's Origin Systems type shit for people who really want that mundanity and sense of verisimilitude that's been lost in even most PC games these days. A lot of that goes against what many consider fun game design these days. No Man's Sky is all the way in the other direction.
That's essentially like saying the game isn't for someone, isn't it? Such a shame, since there are so many aspects of it, that I absolutely love! Read that line of argument a lot while I was still active on the Frontier forums. To the point that people argued you should rather change your life (move closer to work...) to make more room for playing Elite, before accepting that ingame time waster overhead for mundane tasks could be reduced. "Think of the immersion!" "Think of the griefers!" "People grouping up isn't in Elite's legacy!" (Argument for not giving people the option to form squadrons/guilds, back then there were no such features in the game) Whatever the excuse of the day was to gatekeep the small niche the game occupies.

It always came down to certain types of players whining against introducing potential convenience features others brought up or make them over convoluted to the point of uselessness, at no tangible benefit to themselves other than "my immersion", and certainly no benefit to players who'd actually like these features. Frontier listened, to the point of making features inconvenient messes that had been announced as something that'd have been actually useful if implemented as announced. But hey, they also did the initial Engineer grind (update 2.1), which made you grind for half a (real time) day to give you access to a dice roll to improve or downgrade your equipment. *slow clap*

I have a hard time subscribing to the notion that pandering to a niche absolves these games' developers from honoring what should be fundamental game design paradigms like: "don't waste your players' time". That should be universally appreciated in any good game, no matter who the target audience is. It doesn't rule out having mechanics to make people happy, who really need "mundanity and verisimilitude" in their video games either, but at least make them optional/skippable. Who knows? Maybe they'd even find that it's not so much that these games only speak to a small niche, but that its just the desire and tolerance for these games trying to be great space game 2nd live MMO arcade simulations first, before being great games in general, that limits their audience to a niche. It should give anyone food for thought, when you can boot up an actual more "hard core" flight sim like Sturmovik or DCS and have a simulated aircraft or a squadron of aircraft together with your friends in the air faster than a group of friends gets to drive fantasy space ships together in your space game.

As for their 90s' predecessors, even 80s' in Elite's case, they weren't wannabe space game MMOs with the resulting far larger worlds and with forced pretend space person second life aspects bolted on. My experience is limited to Wing Commander 3 and a bit of Freelancer here, but getting to drive a ship in either game took a few clicks. Not running from one end of a city to the other for five minutes, train ride included. Every time you log in.

On a positive note, at least there's hope that Elite isn't going to copy that shit of all things. Up until now you're bolted to your ship's seat in the game and I doubt that even the Elite game design team would think it's a good idea to have you traverse its gigantic space stations to just get to your ship whenever you log in. Which was no more part of the original Elite than it was of Wing Commander or Freelancer. Not that I wouldn't absolutely love to be able to move through these stations, especially the habitat rings for sightseeing. A couple of times, that is or in the rare cases that I just need a super low engagement palate cleanser activity in a game. If there's a certain, especially often repeated game activity in there, all I need is a very quick way to get there and away again.

latest
 
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Mike Armbrust

Member
Oct 25, 2017
528
I'm with you on ship - and station (!) - interiors. I'd want to see them for immersion's sake. So long as any travel through them is optional after they've been reached at least once and I can just teleport to quest locations whenver I do not feel like trudging for five to ten minutes through a gigantic station, just to skip through some mandatory NPC interaction to get/deliver a "quest". It's called player agenda and Frontier so far is, very poor at offering it in Elite, unfortunatley, instead opting for shoving "immershun" down everybody's throat. Works for some people, but unfortunatley not for me anymore after I've had my fill of braindead travel times to be allowed to look at randomely generated mission boards.

But who am I kidding? I rather expect Frontier to go the same route Star Citizen is taking, before offering players a way to teleport somewhere, where they can do what they actually want to do in the game:

Star Citizen - Hab to ship travel times

That video compares pure, on foot travel time between player login (?) location and getting to a ship in various ports. Nearly 1:30min for some locations, but around 5min +/- for quite a few others. Includes neigh on non-interactive virtual train rides. The notion rather disgusts me. It's absolutely not that people who want that, shouldn't have it. It's the notion that somewhere there are "game designers", who think that kind of pure, braindead travel overhead should be mandatory every. single. time. you have to do a menial thing, like getting to your ship in a space game. And i even like open world games. So long as exploration is rewarded by offering quick travel to discovered locations whenever you need to backtrack and don't feel like crossing the game world again.
Yeah immersion and slow gameplay are separate things but often they are treated as one. I personally like the concept of not having teleportation but in practice game worlds are too empty to make it work. Might be really cool walking through a space station the first few dozen times but eventually it could feel more like a chore.

I'd just like to be able to walk around ships and stations so that they feel less artificial. Plus NPCs could be added walking around to make everything feel more alive even when you don't leave your seat. Would be really cool when transporting people to actually see them moving around.
 

RedSwirl

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,135
That's essentially like saying the game isn't for someone, isn't it? Such a shame, since there are so many aspects of it, that I absolutely love! Read that line of argument a lot while I was still active on the Frontier forums. To the point that people argued you should rather change your life (move closer to work...) to make more room for playing Elite, before accepting that ingame time waster overhead for mundane tasks could be reduced. "Think of the immersion!" "Think of the griefers!" "People grouping up isn't in Elite's legacy!" (Argument for not giving people the option to form squadrons/guilds, back then there were no such features in the game) Whatever the excuse of the day was to gatekeep the small niche the game occupies.

It always came down to certain types of players whining against introducing potential convenience features others brought up or make them over convoluted to the point of uselessness, at no tangible benefit to themselves other than "my immersion", and certainly no benefit to players who'd actually like these features. Frontier listened, to the point of making features inconvenient messes that had been announced as something that'd have been actually useful if implemented as announced. But hey, they also did the initial Engineer grind (update 2.1), which made you grind for half a (real time) day to give you access to a dice roll to improve or downgrade your equipment. *slow clap*

I have a hard time subscribing to the notion that pandering to a niche absolves these games' developers from honoring what should be fundamental game design paradigms like: "don't waste your players' time". That should be universally appreciated in any good game, no matter who the target audience is. It doesn't rule out having mechanics to make people happy, who really need "mundanity and verisimilitude" in their video games either, but at least make them optional/skippable. Who knows? Maybe they'd even find that it's not so much that these games only speak to a small niche, but that its just the desire and tolerance for these games trying to be great space game 2nd live MMO arcade simulations first, before being great games in general, that limits their audience to a niche. It should give anyone food for thought, when you can boot up an actual more "hard core" flight sim like Sturmovik or DCS and have a simulated aircraft or a squadron of aircraft together with your friends in the air faster than a group of friends gets to drive fantasy space ships together in your space game.

As for their 90s' predecessors, even 80s' in Elite's case, they weren't wannabe space game MMOs with the resulting far larger worlds and with forced pretend space person second life aspects bolted on. My experience is limited to Wing Commander 3 and a bit of Freelancer here, but getting to drive a ship in either game took a few clicks. Not running from one end of a city to the other for five minutes, train ride included. Every time you log in.

On a positive note, at least there's hope that Elite isn't going to copy that shit of all things. Up until now you're bolted to your ship's seat in the game and I doubt that even the Elite game design team would think it's a good idea to have you traverse its gigantic space stations to just get to your ship whenever you log in. Which was no more part of the original Elite than it was of Wing Commander or Freelancer. Not that I wouldn't absolutely love to be able to move through these stations, especially the habitat rings for sightseeing. A couple of times, that is or in the rare cases that I just need a super low engagement palate cleanser activity in a game. If there's a certain, especially often repeated game activity in there, all I need is a very quick way to get there and away again.

latest
Honestly, "it's not for everyone" kinda is the answer. I'm not saying Elite is a perfect game by a long shot. There's a lot Frontier could do within the bounds of the experience its hardcore audience wants, but I don't think they're ever going to cross the threshold of, like, having fast travel.

Even No Man's Sky -- the space game that was built for more mainstream audiences, forces you to build a portal if you wanna fast travel so it's done in a way that doesn't break continuity. One of the main appeals of these games is their appreciation for the level of scale, smoothly transitioning from the minor surface scale to the interstellar scale. The mundanity of uneventful traversal and bureaucracy is part of that. It provides a sense of contrast in the pacing and gameplay that AAA open-world games don't go for at all. For the people to whom these games appeal, that mundanity isn't "wasting their time" at all. It's part of the fantasy of inhabiting that world.

Elite 1 in 1984 didn't have all that stuff because of the technology of the time, but you still had to fly through a ton of empty space, and docking into space stations was actually harder than in Elite Dangerous. Frontier Elite II in 1991 is what introduced the 1:1 scale galaxy. It was very similar to Elite Dangerous today, but without the online elements, and you couldn't fly past lightspeed inside solar systems, and you were forced to use the Newtonian flying model.

If you're just talking about having to walk all the way to your ship in Star Citizen, I haven't really tried that game yet (I don't have the RAM for it) but I can imagine that getting dull after doing it the 1000th time. Making that and some other stuff "skippable" for some players might mess up how things are balanced in an online setting though. Elite and SC are online-only games, partially because they want to keep the orbits and rotations the same for everybody.

I don't know man. Maybe it sounds like someone else should make another game that's like these space games but fulfills some more of the expectations of more "standard" open-world games. It's kind of what Mass Effect Andromeda started out trying to do early in its development before things fell apart. It looks like nobody yet though has been able to reconcile conventional handcrafted campaigns with procedurally generated worlds. Not since Daggerfall anyway.
 

Burny

Member
Oct 26, 2017
585
I don't know man. Maybe it sounds like someone else should make another game that's like these space games but fulfills some more of the expectations of more "standard" open-world games. It's kind of what Mass Effect Andromeda started out trying to do early in its development before things fell apart. It looks like nobody yet though has been able to reconcile conventional handcrafted campaigns with procedurally generated worlds. Not since Daggerfall anyway.
I very much doubt that either is going to scratch the Elite or Star Citizen itch, but Bethesda at least announced Starfield, which they call a "space epic". That may or may not turn out to scratch the space (ship) game itch without all the pretend second life/job baggage. Beside that, Beyond Good and Evil 2 aspires to be a (cooperative?) multiplayer open world space game with at least interstellar travel. Both companies are rather know for open world games as well...

It's a big "IF", but if those actually release at some point, it wouldn't surprise me, if they turned out both decent games and decent space games, if maybe not the type to make the people looking for a second life happy.
 

RedSwirl

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,135
I very much doubt that either is going to scratch the Elite or Star Citizen itch, but Bethesda at least announced Starfield, which they call a "space epic". That may or may not turn out to scratch the space (ship) game itch without all the pretend second life/job baggage. Beside that, Beyond Good and Evil 2 aspires to be a (cooperative?) multiplayer open world space game with at least interstellar travel. Both companies are rather know for open world games as well...

It's a big "IF", but if those actually release at some point, it wouldn't surprise me, if they turned out both decent games and decent space games, if maybe not the type to make the people looking for a second life happy.
Honestly my biggest hope right now is for Squadron 42.
 
Oct 26, 2017
9,993
Honestly, "it's not for everyone" kinda is the answer. I'm not saying Elite is a perfect game by a long shot. There's a lot Frontier could do within the bounds of the experience its hardcore audience wants, but I don't think they're ever going to cross the threshold of, like, having fast travel.

Even No Man's Sky -- the space game that was built for more mainstream audiences, forces you to build a portal if you wanna fast travel so it's done in a way that doesn't break continuity. One of the main appeals of these games is their appreciation for the level of scale, smoothly transitioning from the minor surface scale to the interstellar scale. The mundanity of uneventful traversal and bureaucracy is part of that. It provides a sense of contrast in the pacing and gameplay that AAA open-world games don't go for at all. For the people to whom these games appeal, that mundanity isn't "wasting their time" at all. It's part of the fantasy of inhabiting that world.

Elite 1 in 1984 didn't have all that stuff because of the technology of the time, but you still had to fly through a ton of empty space, and docking into space stations was actually harder than in Elite Dangerous. Frontier Elite II in 1991 is what introduced the 1:1 scale galaxy. It was very similar to Elite Dangerous today, but without the online elements, and you couldn't fly past lightspeed inside solar systems, and you were forced to use the Newtonian flying model.

If you're just talking about having to walk all the way to your ship in Star Citizen, I haven't really tried that game yet (I don't have the RAM for it) but I can imagine that getting dull after doing it the 1000th time. Making that and some other stuff "skippable" for some players might mess up how things are balanced in an online setting though. Elite and SC are online-only games, partially because they want to keep the orbits and rotations the same for everybody.

I don't know man. Maybe it sounds like someone else should make another game that's like these space games but fulfills some more of the expectations of more "standard" open-world games. It's kind of what Mass Effect Andromeda started out trying to do early in its development before things fell apart. It looks like nobody yet though has been able to reconcile conventional handcrafted campaigns with procedurally generated worlds. Not since Daggerfall anyway.
One of the things they're bound by in Elite is the concept of jump range and the fact that high jump range comes at the cost of other ship functionality. Being able to instantly transport ships across the bubble or even further completely eliminates this element of ship building. You'd just build a cheap high jump range ship, then use it to jump to the desired location and bring your heavier ships along instantly.
 

cnorwood

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,346
Elite+ VR+ HOTAS is one of the best gaming experiences I have had. Hopefully they can make a good VR fps port as well
 

RedSwirl

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,135
One of the things they're bound by in Elite is the concept of jump range and the fact that high jump range comes at the cost of other ship functionality. Being able to instantly transport ships across the bubble or even further completely eliminates this element of ship building. You'd just build a cheap high jump range ship, then use it to jump to the desired location and bring your heavier ships along instantly.
Even NMS is bound by this on some level. It just lets you build portals to get around it. Even then you still have to first reach the portal destinations through normal jumps in order to build the portals (barring the random portals you find of course).
 

Grue

Member
Sep 7, 2018
5,106
Elite Dangerous: Odyssey | The Road to Odyssey Part 1 - One Giant Leap



Also for whatever reason, it only just struck me that this is coming out just after the new consoles launch.

I assume that means a nice meaty upgrade on the graphics, right? E:D has always seemed to scale well to hardware.

It looked great on One X, but I think between this and a performance bump, I'd finally jump back in for a few hundred hours more next gen.
 

CGriffiths86

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,863
I'm no expert on the way this game handles DLC, but I just have the base game on Steam (and havent played it yet). Will I miss out on a lot now having expansions or is most of this being added in for free?
 

RedSwirl

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,135
So what does "light atmosphere" mean? 1atm? 2? What are densest atmospheres you guys have seen on rocky planets in Elite? I'm not even sure the game has planets with Venus or Titan-like atmospheres.
 
Oct 25, 2017
41,368
Miami, FL
So what does "light atmosphere" mean? 1atm? 2? What are densest atmospheres you guys have seen on rocky planets in Elite? I'm not even sure the game has planets with Venus or Titan-like atmospheres.
Looks like they are adding light flora to the traditional ice/rock planets we could already land on that we can find and scan for profit. Maybe some wind patterns and perhaps volcanos and other surface features that will react to the hot/cold temps that come with a the day/night cycles? But it looks like no weather or dense flora anytime soon and fauna at all yet, so I'm getting the feeling that weapons will be not a big part of this expansion. Outside of shooting other players, I guess? More hand held exploratory and discovery instruments. Still hoping we get dense alien jungles before this game reaches EOL.
 

Love Machine

Member
Oct 29, 2017
4,279
Tokyo, Japan
Elite Dangerous: Odyssey | The Road to Odyssey Part 1 - One Giant Leap



Also for whatever reason, it only just struck me that this is coming out just after the new consoles launch.

I assume that means a nice meaty upgrade on the graphics, right? E:D has always seemed to scale well to hardware.

It looked great on One X, but I think between this and a performance bump, I'd finally jump back in for a few hundred hours more next gen.


In this interview they say they're aiming for current gen platforms first and when they do next gen, they want it to be "special".