That poem always struck me as some crazy racist rant you'd find scrawled on public toilet wall.
Lovecraft's views went far beyond what was commonly accepted at the time. He was criticized by his contemporaries (even ones who dismissed his racism as an affect of the style of prose he was borrowing described his views as outdated) and people close to him were disturbed by his behavior.
Just two posts above you we have a guy defending and normalizing his views, painting him as some sort of victim or deserving of sympathy.
People simply using the term "lovcraftian" is praise of the man.
Exactly. The writers and creators in the genre have been tackling this aspect of the Lovecraftian fiction for decades. This article is acting as if this is an ignored aspect that people just turn a blind eye to because they like the genre, when it's the exact opposite. It's something that basically all writers in the genre are cognizant ofThe article is pretty shallow. They're aren't talking about racism when people call something Lovecraftian and most anyone who is passingly familiar with him as an artist is well aware of his racism. Most people who create works in his mold actively avoid the hateful elements or work to subvert them. This article comes off like someone who played Bloodborne and then looked up the influences and read a wikipedia summary on Lovecraft.
As I said, YOU need to decide what you want to do about Lovecraft's views. They're hateful, they're racist. It's not up for discussion.
We're not part of an authority that can decide if we can expunge Lovecraft from the list of popular or influential authors. We can't really remove him from history.
The questions we're discussing is whether his views did bleed into his work in a way that makes it unredeemable or if there's something of value that isn't tarnished by those views. And before or after that, if the nature of his views is sufficient to make his work tarnished whether it is influenced by them or not. And if his position was actually uncharacteristically racist for his time or not.
And if it matters, Lovecraft hated my "ethnicity" with a passion and considered it the ruin of american society, in particular after his time in Red Hook.
The discussion isn't whether Lovecraft was racist or not. He was. And it's not even about whether Lovecraft's racism was fine. It wasn't.
It's about what do we do with that information, and how we want to behave. The least important thing in Lovecraft's legacy is his actual work. He was a mediocre writer and none of his novellas is unforgettable. But his legacy has inspired and continues to inspire people, and we're getting plenty of "lovecraftian" material that is devoid of any racist baggage. Should we expunge all that too?
Okay, how many games these days are directly influenced by his work?
I'm looking at my shelf of games and can't really say any of them have a strong Lovecraftian influence.
Cosmic horror is the broader genre, stuff like House of Leaves or Twilight Zone's And When The Sky Was Opened, while Lovecraftian horror is a specific type of cosmic horror that uses the elements and imagery and mythos of Lovecraft's stories
Pointing out he was "just as racist as others in his time" is a deflection and an attempt to normalize the behavior.So one person who is trying to point out that Lovecraft was just as racist as alot of other people in his time? Not that I even agree with what they're saying I'll say again I think your interpeting things in a very specific and unsupported manner. You can discuss the man without normalizing him as this topic is doing.
This game [SOMA] uses technology to explore themes of identity, consciousness and yes, existentialism. It does so most effectively not by throwing alien creatures in our faces but by confronting us with the nature of our existence. There are no ancient alien gods, just heavy reminders of mankind's place in the universe.
What stories or parts of his stories are racist? I've never read more than a few pages of Lovecraft, the bits I did read were super boring and repetitive.
I've read the article and I don't get which point it's trying to make.
I love reading H. P. Lovecraft.
I hate racists.
I can assure you it is possible to read and enjoy old books in 2018 without having to be of the same mindset of the person who wrote them.
I agree with this.Remove the "lovecraftian horror" moniker and just use cosmic horror because it's the only stuff worth imitating.
Lovecraft's views went far beyond what was commonly accepted at the time. He was criticized by his contemporaries (even ones who dismissed his racism as an affect of the style of prose he was borrowing described his views as outdated) and people close to him were disturbed by his behavior.
This is how his wife described it: "Whenever we found ourselves in the racially mixed crowds which characterize New York, Howard would become livid with rage. He seemed almost to lose his mind." That's not something you say about a person who holds mildly controversial views about anything.
Many modern Lovecraftian stories are well aware of Lovecraft's racism and either subvert those aspects or tackle them directly, such as with the book Lovecraft CountryBloodborne's an odd game to focus on because it reverses many of the most racist aspects of Lovecraft's stories.
A good example is the Shadow Over Innsmouth-inspired area, where the nightmare denizens are hostile not because they are "mongrel" fish people, but because hunters massacred the village in their selfish pursuit of power.
His views are 140 years old are you insane?There's people in this very thread doing just that.
And this is what sucks so bad about it. How willing the world is to ignore his racism and just move on like it was nothing. His work should have been rejected long before it became inspiration. We still have people in this thread in 2018 defending and trying to normalize this guys views. It's truly sickening
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generalplan_Ost#Phases_of_the_plan_and_its_implementation
I feel like people have a slightly idealized concept of what American and European society was like at the time.
He should not have a "legacy" the fact that he does is the problem. The fact that people are so willing to praise his work is disgusting. There is no "lovecraftian" work devoid of racist baggage because as we've learned the "monsters" in his stories were just the niggers from around the corner.
So as a writer if you still chose to study and be inspired by his work, then you are willingly perpetuating a racists legacy and views. The fact that people use the word "lovecraftian" to describe anything other than a disgusting human and his views angers me to no end.
And this type of thing only happens when black people or gays are at the receiving end of the hate.
We don't here talk of separating such n such nazi artist from his work.
The discussion around this whole thing is influenced by racism whether intentional or subconscious.
Why are people so willing and even eager to praise this guys legacy? Even you said his works weren't that good.
It's the opposite though. His racism has very much tainted his work and it's something that is always brought up today, that writers are always struggling with when writing in the genre. It's never been ignored, it's actively an issue for writers. You can find myriad articles over the past decade about thisI agree with this.
I remember many years ago being incredibly disheartened when I read about his views, as I loved his stories. I think a lot of people take a blind eye and actually forgive him because they enjoy the stories so much. Cosmic horror can live on without his moniker attached.
Apparently not considering how many people still believe and defend them today.
Grow up. You can't defend your position fine. Don't act like a child.Apparently not considering how many people still believe and defend them today.
Fuck you.
This is just my personal experience. Until I read this thread I didn't know about Lovecraft being such a racist even for his time standards. I'm not an ultra fan of his work, but I have read most of it several times and I have always liked it. The Call of Cthulhu RPG (not videogame) set in the 1920's is one of my favourites. And I swear that I have never made the connection between his works, monsters and his racist views. I can certainly believe that the monsters on his books are metaphors for black people, but I think that, as a reader, we can choose to make our own interpretation of his work and disassociate it from racism.
Apparently not considering how many people still believe and defend them today.
Fuck you.
You are the one calling names. That's what children do.Grow up. You can't defend your position fine. Don't act like a child.
Is this how you expect to get people to side with you? Really?
Apparently not considering how many people still believe and defend them today.
Fuck you.
I don't see anyone defending his views.Apparently not considering how many people still believe and defend them today.
Fuck you.
Yes, Lovecraft was a massive racist until his death 81 years ago. Yes, people have known this for over a century. Why are you expecting people in this thread to act shocked and appalled at something that everyone knows? Man was racist in times when 99.99% people were Racist, news at 11.Pointing out he was "just as racist as others in his time" is a deflection and an attempt to normalize the behavior.
And it's disgusting.
Racism in 2018 is commonplace.Yes, Lovecraft was a massive racist until his death 81 years ago. Yes, people have known this for over a century. Why are you expecting people in this thread to act shocked and appalled at something that everyone knows? Man was racist in times when 99.99% people were Racist, news at 11.
What, exactly, are people deflecting from when they point out the very obvious thing that racism in his time was commonplace? People aren't defending his racist views by pointing this out.
How is whole madness aspect of cosmic/Lovecraftian horror demonizing mental illness? I'd argue there's a huge difference between someone dealing with mental illness and how madness is presented in cosmic horror; it's not something wrong with the person, but something done to themI agree that the whole madness thing propagates a harmfully simplified image of mental illness. There is a great opportunity to explore the ideas of cosmic horror in terms of modern understanding of mental illness, and would have the benefit of being a step removed from the original stories.
Okay, what's your point?
Why is pointing out how racism was commonplace in his time even needed?
He should not have a "legacy" the fact that he does is the problem. The fact that people are so willing to praise his work is disgusting. There is no "lovecraftian" work devoid of racist baggage because as we've learned the "monsters" in his stories were just the niggers from around the corner.
So as a writer if you still chose to study and be inspired by his work, then you are willingly perpetuating a racists legacy and views. The fact that people use the word "lovecraftian" to describe anything other than a disgusting human and his views angers me to no end.
And this type of thing only happens when black people or gays are at the receiving end of the hate.
We don't hear talk of separating such n such nazi artist from his work.
The discussion around this whole thing is influenced by racism whether intentional or subconscious.
Why are people so willing and even eager to praise this guys legacy? Even you said his works weren't that good.
Many aspects of Bloodborne (most notably the entire concept of the dream world) are directly inspired by Lovecraft's stories.Yeah, I think divorcing it from Lovecraft himself by just saying Cosmic Horror helps a lot. The basic idea of a universe dominated by manevolent beings beyond your comprehension obviously has some value, given how popular it seems to be, even if pretty much everyone Lovecraft himself ever wrote is basically unreadably racist. Bloodborne is fine, but no one should ever attempt an actual direct Lovecraft adapatation, and people shouldn't insult something like Bloodborne by tying it to Lovecraft (I'm not sure if FROM ever directly referenced Lovecraft in development or not. If they did, they shouldn't have, but how bad Lovecraft is also probably isn't as well understood in the Japanese context.)
And you don't find that problematic? A racist guy writing vile racist things has been elevator the point where you didn't even know some work you enjoy was inspired by vile hatred.
You are ok with that?