[Eurogamer] What is the point of Xbox?

Sir_Caffeine · May 12, 2024

Bought a steamdeck and that tipped med over to also buy a pc... And sell my series x.
The games I am interested in are coming to pc. It's also more powerful and versatile so the switch was easy. Unless the new xbox is a steamdeck clone with superior graphics and a superb deck to TV feature... I'm not interested.

Jerm · May 12, 2024

Sir_Caffeine said:
Bought a steamdeck and that tipped med over to also buy a pc... And sell my series x.
The games I am interested in are coming to pc. It's also more powerful and versatile so the switch was easy. Unless the new xbox is a steamdeck clone with superior graphics and a superb deck to TV feature... I'm not interested.

Same thing here, just a few weeks ago. The writing has been on the wall, it is what it is, I've accepted that I threw money into a drain but had a fun decade+ doing so, but I will never build a non-PC-based console library ever again.

burdel · May 12, 2024

I do agree on the disappointment, but the the conclusions are a bit... sappy. The purpose of every console and every game is to make money, money making con coexist with art, but let us stop at that and not fool ourselves.

SNRUB · May 12, 2024

I'm reminded that they turned down Baldur's Gate and decried it as some low rent Stadia game and that title in turn went on to fucking obliterate Starfield on launch day, the game Spencer was banking on being the system seller everyone and their grandmother would want to play:

Microsoft completely misjudged Baldur’s Gate 3

Not a great look for Microsoft

www.polygon.com

You could write a book spanning across multiple volumes of how MS fumbled the bag since Xbox's inception. A division that just thrives on incompetence. They had so many countless opportunities to turn the tide and they just kept tripping over themselves.

kamineko · May 12, 2024

I'm glad they brought the fable stuff up. Xbox just keeps shitting up creative projects, and they've been doing it for a while. Making everybody use Kinect when nobody wanted to, for instance. Or forcing Arkane Austin to change Redfall into a multiplayer GAAS just to fire everyone when their stupid idea didn't work out. Or closing Tango, then saying they want games like the ones Tango makes. Or turning down BG3 like it was beneath them. Beneath Xbox? In 2022?

After the latest closures, I'm a hater. I don't care what they do anymore. At the start of the generation, I planned to buy a mid-gen refresh Series X to mop up on gamepass stuff (I've said that here before!), but that sounds incredibly distasteful to me now. It's only a matter of time til Obsidian is either gutted or closed. Or making Fallout textures for BGS.

And no, I'm not a console warrior. Played a ton of original Xbox. I mained 360 and had an X1. I've never been in trouble for console warring, either here or at the old place, but these closures are too much. I've had it; I don't want anything they're selling.

Scruffy8642 · May 12, 2024

It's just kinda sad and at the point where you just need to stop expecting anything. I spent my entire high school years wanting a 360 to complement my PS3 but couldn't afford it. By the time I had money to buy into the Xbox ecosystem, it was no longer really worth owning one. It's been 10 years now and I've still never found a reason to get one. With all the acquisitions I was hopeful but it seems they were a waste of time as well.

L11ghtman · May 12, 2024

kamineko said:
I'm glad they brought the fable stuff up. Xbox just keeps shitting up creative projects, and they've been doing it for a while. Making everybody use Kinect when nobody wanted to, for instance. Or forcing Arkane Austin to change Redfall into a multiplayer GAAS just to fire everyone when their stupid idea didn't work out. Or closing Tango, then saying they want games like the ones Tango makes. Or turning down BG3 like it was beneath them. Beneath Xbox? In 2022?

After the latest closures, I'm a hater. I don't care what they do anymore. At the start of the generation, I planned to buy a mid-gen refresh Series X to mop up on gamepass stuff (I've said that here before!), but that sounds incredibly distasteful to me now. It's only a matter of time til Obsidian is either gutted or closed. Or making Fallout textures for BGS.

And no, I'm not a console warrior. Played a ton of original Xbox. I mained 360 and had an X1. I've never been in trouble for console warring, either here or at the old place, but these closures are too much. I've had it; I don't want anything they're selling.

I don't view most of this stuff as any worse than Sony. Maybe it's worse lately but not worse generally. What I do see as a major difference is routine failure to deliver on good games. The mismanagement and shift toward third party publishing coinciding with the shuttering of the only studio they inherited that's made a true banger so far this Gen is very telling.

Sydle · May 12, 2024

kamineko said:
I'm glad they brought the fable stuff up. Xbox just keeps shitting up creative projects, and they've been doing it for a while. Making everybody use Kinect when nobody wanted to, for instance. Or forcing Arkane Austin to change Redfall into a multiplayer GAAS just to fire everyone when their stupid idea didn't work out. Or closing Tango, then saying they want games like the ones Tango makes. Or turning down BG3 like it was beneath them. Beneath Xbox? In 2022?

After the latest closures, I'm a hater. I don't care what they do anymore. At the start of the generation, I planned to buy a mid-gen refresh Series X to mop up on gamepass stuff (I've said that here before!), but that sounds incredibly distasteful to me now. It's only a matter of time til Obsidian is either gutted or closed. Or making Fallout textures for BGS.

And no, I'm not a console warrior. Played a ton of original Xbox. I mained 360 and had an X1. I've never been in trouble for console warring, either here or at the old place, but these closures are too much. I've had it; I don't want anything they're selling.

I don't disagree with the aim of your post. Just pointing out that Redfall's direction and development started way before the acquisition. There was a story a year ago, shortly after release of Redfall, where an Arkane Austin employee said they were hoping Xbox would step in and cancel it. The only thing we heard about Xbox inserting themselves in regard to Redfall was to cancel the PS5 version of it. That actually supports your overall argument though, highlighting that Xbox as a supporter and curator of game makers still leaves a lot to be desired.

I can't help but think that because Microsoft, the parent company, is first a cloud and AI technology company first they will never have the DNA that Sony (with Playstation as their number one pillar) and Nintendo have as game makers. They can still output great games, but it won't because of their corporate leadership.

L11ghtman · May 12, 2024

Sydle said:
I don't disagree with the aim of your post. Just pointing out that Redfall's direction and development started way before the acquisition. There was a story a year ago, shortly after release of Redfall, where an Arkane Austin employee said they were hoping Xbox would step in and cancel it. The only thing we heard about Xbox inserting themselves in regard to Redfall was to cancel the PS5 version of it. That actually supports your overall argument though, highlighting that Xbox as a supporter and curator of game makers still leaves a lot to be desired.

I can't help but think that because Xbox is first a cloud and AI technology company first they will never have the DNA that Sony (with Playstation as their number one pillar) and Nintendo have. They can still output great games, but it won't because of their corporate leadership.

Part of the issue is that Microsoft neglected the team that worked so hard to build the Xbox 360 into a powerhouse. They had a team that not only recognized what made a compelling console experience, and a compelling game ecosystem and library, but which also had the talent and industry connection to go out and get studios.

Microsoft learned all the wrong lessons from their hard work and success and followed the numbers toward Netflix engagement and away from core console appeal and a diverse library of award winning games. The Xbox One also launched with some of that legacy in that Sunset Overdrive and Titanfall were exclusives. But those were part of the 360 team's legacy. Everything put into production *after* the XBone launched was noticeably less compelling.

Vareon · May 12, 2024

I somehow missed this thread, but I think this is the best written piece about Xbox's priorities and I agreed with almost all points. Microsoft is excited to be involved in the videogame business, but it has no desire in making videogames. Videogames are "content" devoid of any creative context, they think they can just buy any people and have them make any "content" they need, not caring or realizing that great games are more than a thing that's somehow get made--they're a product of the studio's people and culture as well.

Celestial Descend · May 12, 2024

SNRUB said:
I'm reminded that they turned down Baldur's Gate and decried it as some low rent Stadia game and that title in turn went on to fucking obliterate Starfield on launch day, the game Spencer was banking on being the system seller everyone and their grandmother would want to play:

Microsoft completely misjudged Baldur’s Gate 3

Not a great look for Microsoft

www.polygon.com

You could write a book spanning across multiple volumes of how MS fumbled the bag since Xbox's inception. A division that just thrives on incompetence. They had so many countless opportunities to turn the tide and they just kept tripping over themselves.

And they forced feature parity between X and S, which made BG3 a timed PS5 console exclusive without Sony paying a single penny for it.

L11ghtman said:
Everything put into production *after* the XBone launched was noticeably less compelling.

You wouldn't be saying this if Halo Infinite was a smashing hit or Perfect Dark and Fable reboot development went smoothly. They tried to appeal to core gamers. They acquired and built studios to make those games. They were just so bad at managing those studios that those games don't pan out the way they hoped.

Dreamboum · May 12, 2024

They should be called ABK because it's pretty clear they're the shot-callers now. They got paid 75 billions to run the show

PianoBlack · May 12, 2024

kamineko said:
I'm glad they brought the fable stuff up. Xbox just keeps shitting up creative projects, and they've been doing it for a while. Making everybody use Kinect when nobody wanted to, for instance. Or forcing Arkane Austin to change Redfall into a multiplayer GAAS just to fire everyone when their stupid idea didn't work out. Or closing Tango, then saying they want games like the ones Tango makes. Or turning down BG3 like it was beneath them. Beneath Xbox? In 2022?

After the latest closures, I'm a hater. I don't care what they do anymore. At the start of the generation, I planned to buy a mid-gen refresh Series X to mop up on gamepass stuff (I've said that here before!), but that sounds incredibly distasteful to me now. It's only a matter of time til Obsidian is either gutted or closed. Or making Fallout textures for BGS.

And no, I'm not a console warrior. Played a ton of original Xbox. I mained 360 and had an X1. I've never been in trouble for console warring, either here or at the old place, but these closures are too much. I've had it; I don't want anything they're selling.

Even if you're a hater now, there's no reason to repeat provably false narratives.

After acquisition, Xbox supports Arkane to move the already-in-development Redfall from a full gaas with premium currency cash shop etc (Bethesda management's idea) into just a normal multiplayer-enabled game with no monetization -> "forcing Arkane Austin to change Redfall into a multiplayer GAAS just to fire everyone when their stupid idea didn't work out"

Making a list of games they might want to approach to offer a Game Pass deal -> "turning down BG3 like it was beneath them"

L11ghtman · May 12, 2024

Vareon said:
I somehow missed this thread, but I think this is the best written piece about Xbox's priorities and I agreed with almost all points. Microsoft is excited to be involved in the videogame business, but it has no desire in making videogames. Videogames are "content" devoid of any creative context, they think they can just buy any people and have them make any "content" they need, not caring or realizing that great games are more than a thing that's somehow get made--they're a product of the studio's people and culture as well.

Yeah in hindsight Microsoft neglected a truly talented Xbox team that built the 360 and developed its third party exclusive studio connections and relationships; as soon as it got popular they directed it toward content because they didn't see the 360 as a beloved gaming console but rather as the number one place to stream Netflix.

kamineko · May 12, 2024

L11ghtman said:
I don't view most of this stuff as any worse than Sony. Maybe it's worse lately but not worse generally. What I do see as a major difference is routine failure to deliver on good games. The mismanagement and shift toward third party publishing coinciding with the shuttering of the only studio they inherited that's made a true banger so far this Gen is very telling.

I have similar frustrations with Sony's studio/publishing management. It's just that seeing Arkane Austin and Tango Gameworks shuttered in the same day is... whew, breathtaking.

Sydle said:
I don't disagree with the aim of your post. Just pointing out that Redfall's direction and development started way before the acquisition. There was a story a year ago, shortly after release of Redfall, where an Arkane Austin employee said they were hoping Xbox would step in and cancel it. The only thing we heard about Xbox inserting themselves in regard to Redfall was to cancel the PS5 version of it. That actually supports your overall argument though, highlighting that Xbox as a supporter and curator of game makers still leaves a lot to be desired.

I can't help but think that because Microsoft, the parent company, is first a cloud and AI technology company first they will never have the DNA that Sony (with Playstation as their number one pillar) and Nintendo have as game makers. They can still output great games, but it won't because of their corporate leadership.

Ah. Thanks for the correction. I do agree that Microsoft doesn't seem to "get" entertainment or games at the corporate level; it's a trivial amount of their overall business.

L11ghtman · May 12, 2024

Celestial Descend said:
You wouldn't be saying this if Halo Infinite was a smashing hit or Perfect Dark and Fable reboot development went smoothly.

Yes and if my grandmother had wheels she'd be a bicycle.

They did not do a good job making those games. They have not done a good job developing any sort of consistent quality in gaming in a full decade. They mismanaged Halo and the MIA Perfect Dark and Fable sequels. They shipped Hi Fi as a shadow drop because it was something they simply acquired coincidentally chasing Bethesda and they clearly didn't know what to do with it. They did not recognize how bad Redfall was. They were wrong about Starfield giving their platform a sales boost.

If Xbox had done a great job making great games, you're right, I would not be saying this. But they haven't done a great job, so I am.

MasterChief · May 12, 2024

L11ghtman said:
Yes and if my grandmother had wheels she'd be a bicycle.

Lol this got me

Derbel McDillet · May 12, 2024

SNRUB said:
I'm reminded that they turned down Baldur's Gate and decried it as some low rent Stadia game and that title in turn went on to fucking obliterate Starfield on launch day, the game Spencer was banking on being the system seller everyone and their grandmother would want to play:

Microsoft completely misjudged Baldur’s Gate 3

Not a great look for Microsoft

www.polygon.com

You could write a book spanning across multiple volumes of how MS fumbled the bag since Xbox's inception. A division that just thrives on incompetence. They had so many countless opportunities to turn the tide and they just kept tripping over themselves.

"second-run Stadia PC RPG"

Y'all gotta stop twisting a phrase that had a literal definition into an insult.

Second run = second release
The game was literally being made for Stadia.
That is literally what it was.

naff · May 12, 2024

As high as I was on the original Xbox and to an extent 360, I have followed the general trend of losing interest as the 7th gen aged and completely ignored their 8th and 9th gen offerings.

They have no identity. Their purpose seems to be acquiring franchises that can be seen as a significant value add to their core services. Windows; now with Call of Duty, Fallout, Diablo Gamepass.

At least they fixed the xbox app installer bug. I will keep subbing to gamepass occasionally no doubt, it's not a bad value add, just wish they were a more positive publisher. As it stands I thjnk they have been a net negative for the industry writ large. Gamepass services are not sustainable

Lotus · May 12, 2024

L11ghtman said:
They shipped Hi Fi as a shadow drop because it was something they simply acquired coincidentally chasing Bethesda and they clearly didn't know what to do with it.

Hi-Fi Rush Went Viral Internally at Bethesda, Leading to Shadow Drop - IGN

Hi-Fi Rush made for an exciting shadow drop after last week's Xbox Developer Direct, but the general public isn't the first to be enamored by it. Apparently, it went a bit viral internally at Bethesda first - which in part led to Tango's decision to shadow drop it in the first place.

www.ign.com

IGN: Hi-Fi RUSH shadow drop came from game’s marketing team result of uncertainty about long marketing cycle and viral positivity internally

IGN is going to have an interview with John Johanas coming but we now know where and why the decision for the shadow drop came from. Sounds like they knew they had something really special ahead of launch...

www.resetera.com

They (as in Tango/their marketing team) made the decision to shadow drop it because it was testing extremely well internally, they thought the WoM would do the job for them as opposed to putting the game through the usual marketing cycle given that they are known for making horror ganes. Microsoft didn't force them to drop it that way, they just agreed with their logic and went along with it.

Unless you're saying that Microsoft should've forced them to release it normally.

Obviously though, it was all for nothing in the end. Truly is painful reading through all those older Hi-Fi Rush articles/threads now...

greenbird · May 12, 2024

SNRUB said:
I'm reminded that they turned down Baldur's Gate and decried it as some low rent Stadia game and that title in turn went on to fucking obliterate Starfield on launch day, the game Spencer was banking on being the system seller everyone and their grandmother would want to play:

Microsoft completely misjudged Baldur’s Gate 3

Not a great look for Microsoft

www.polygon.com

You could write a book spanning across multiple volumes of how MS fumbled the bag since Xbox's inception. A division that just thrives on incompetence. They had so many countless opportunities to turn the tide and they just kept tripping over themselves.

They didn't shit talk it like BG3, but it reminds me of their failure with Hoyoverse and Genshin Impact, who they were supposedly in talks with early on and couldn't get a deal done. Sony cashed in on that, Star Rail, and soon ZZZ.

Freshmaker · May 12, 2024

a Master Ninja said:
The biggest question Microsoft needs to answer in the June Showcase is why should anyone buy Xbox hardware/from the Xbox ecosystem and not just use Steam or PlayStation or possibly even Nintendo for the handful of Xbox games they are interested in.

I'm not sure if they even have an answer anymore. Not if Game Pass will become less attractive. And Xbox won't be "the best place to play Xbox games" if the PlayStation keeps getting superior ports and the PS5 Pro is right around the corner.

The way they've positioned themselves, they should just make Game Pass the Xbox platform and move away from hardware.

Celestial Descend · May 12, 2024

L11ghtman said:
Yes and if my grandmother had wheels she'd be a bicycle.

They did not do a good job making those games. They have not done a good job developing any sort of consistent quality in gaming in a full decade. They mismanaged Halo and the MIA Perfect Dark and Fable sequels. They shipped Hi Fi as a shadow drop because it was something they simply acquired coincidentally chasing Bethesda and they clearly didn't know what to do with it. They did not recognize how bad Redfall was. They were wrong about Starfield giving their platform a sales boost.

If Xbox had done a great job making great games, you're right, I would not be saying this. But they haven't done a great job, so I am.

This is your full quote:

Microsoft learned all the wrong lessons from their hard work and success and followed the numbers toward Netflix engagement and away from core console appeal and a diverse library of award winning games. The Xbox One also launched with some of that legacy in that Sunset Overdrive and Titanfall were exclusives. But those were part of the 360 team's legacy. Everything put into production *after* the XBone launched was noticeably less compelling.

My point is they didn't shift away from core console appeal. They tried, but they failed. MS's strategy over the last decade was not the problem, it was the execution.

TheUnsungHero26 · May 12, 2024

SNRUB said:
I'm reminded that they turned down Baldur's Gate and decried it as some low rent Stadia game and that title in turn went on to fucking obliterate Starfield on launch day, the game Spencer was banking on being the system seller everyone and their grandmother would want to play:

Microsoft completely misjudged Baldur’s Gate 3

Not a great look for Microsoft

www.polygon.com

You could write a book spanning across multiple volumes of how MS fumbled the bag since Xbox's inception. A division that just thrives on incompetence. They had so many countless opportunities to turn the tide and they just kept tripping over themselves.

I'm always amazed how people continue to misinterpret this.

They called it a "second-run" Stadia game, because that's literally what it was going to be (at the time). It's not a comment or an insult on BG3's quality.

GamerJM · May 12, 2024

I don't really understand what the point of buying an Xbox instead of a PC is, other than just not having the funds to buy a gaming PC or the desire to set a PC up. Especially if they're going to be doing away with physical games.

PianoBlack · May 12, 2024

greenbird said:
They didn't shit talk it like BG3, but it reminds me of their failure with Hoyoverse and Genshin Impact, who they were supposedly in talks with early on and couldn't get a deal done. Sony cashed in on that, Star Rail, and soon ZZZ.

They also never shit talk BG3, if we're nitpicking.

Hero · May 12, 2024

greenbird said:
They didn't shit talk it like BG3, but it reminds me of their failure with Hoyoverse and Genshin Impact, who they were supposedly in talks with early on and couldn't get a deal done. Sony cashed in on that, Star Rail, and soon ZZZ.

Microsoft also passed on Grand Theft Auto 3 way back in the day and back in 2014 passed on Insomniac's Spider-Man.

Xbox leadership is not good at their jobs.

Sydle · May 12, 2024

L11ghtman said:
Part of the issue is that Microsoft neglected the team that worked so hard to build the Xbox 360 into a powerhouse. They had a team that not only recognized what made a compelling console experience, and a compelling game ecosystem and library, but which also had the talent and industry connection to go out and get studios.

Microsoft learned all the wrong lessons from their hard work and success and followed the numbers toward Netflix engagement and away from core console appeal and a diverse library of award winning games. The Xbox One also launched with some of that legacy in that Sunset Overdrive and Titanfall were exclusives. But those were part of the 360 team's legacy. Everything put into production *after* the XBone launched was noticeably less compelling.

Agreed, but I don't think Satya ever cared about being a console maker though and the old guard's philosophy probably wouldn't matter much to him.

Satya made his way to the top on what he achieved with Azure. In his first company memo in 2014 he cited that gaming had the most screen time across devices and referred to Xbox as a unique opportunity in his mobile-first, cloud-first company mission. Then he moved Xbox under the Windows division. Roughly a year later we started hearing about games being made for both Xbox and Windows, where he said Xbox is just another Windows device to him. That obviously changed in 2017 when he pulled it out of the Windows division as its own pillar, alongside investments in Game Pass, xCloud and first-party studio expansion.

The gaming division has been in service to Satya's grander Microsoft mission for the past 10 years. I don't see that changing, not when Nadella is now calling his company cloud-first, AI-first. And why would he change that when he managed to make Microsoft the first or second most valuable company in the world?

Under Nadella and Amy Hood, I think success for their gaming division looks like proving out subscription revenue growth and getting more gamers to use the cloud and purchase from the mobile store, all while hitting the revenue and operating costs targets. And he's probably right about all of those things being the right long-term bets, but good lord does it sound like a lot to navigate and balance in addition to just trying to make great games. With how many people they have in their gaming org I really do hope they figure it out and succeed.

TheUnsungHero26 · May 12, 2024

Hero said:
Microsoft also passed on Grand Theft Auto 3 way back in the day and back in 2014 passed on Insomniac's Spider-Man.

They passed on the opportunity to work on a Marvel IP in general, not Insomniac's Spider-Man. You could argue it's semantics, but it's not like they saw Insomniac's Spider-Man game and said no to it.

Ironically, Microsoft not greenlighting a Sunset Overdrive sequel probably is what caused Sony to get their biggest game in Spider-Man. Now that was a mistake.

PianoBlack · May 12, 2024

GamerJM said:
I don't really understand what the point of buying an Xbox instead of a PC is, other than just not having the funds to buy a gaming PC or the desire to set a PC up. Especially if they're going to be doing away with physical games.

Better experience minute to minute is the main thing.
- Native controller support throughout the UI. Plus never launching a game and needing to switch to keyboard to click on the Windows 98 "Visual C++ redistributable" dialogue or whatever.
- None of the random errors, etc. For example I tried to launch Jade Empire on Steam two nights ago and got "Steam app not found". Why? Who knows? So I can play a different game or spend my evening debugging. Console just works.
- Quick Resume

The back compat console library is the other, PC support for pre 2017 games is quite spotty (Gears 2/3, Lost Odyssey and so on).

AuthenticM · May 12, 2024

L11ghtman said:
Yes and if my grandmother had wheels she'd be a bicycle.

lol I'm stealing this.

Hero · May 12, 2024

TheUnsungHero26 said:
They passed on the opportunity to work on a Marvel IP in general, not Insomniac's Spider-Man. You could argue it's semantics, but it's not like they saw Insomniac's Spider-Man game and said no to it.

Ironically, Microsoft not greenlighting a Sunset Overdrive sequel probably is what caused Sony to get their biggest game in Spider-Man. Now that was a mistake.

I mean, okay, sure. At the time it wasn't specifically known that it would turn out to be Spider-Man but Insomniac did reach out to both Sony and Microsoft with the aim of creating a first party Marvel game that could outdo Arkham. You'd think someone that wasn't completely incompetent at Microsoft would be able to see what they did with Sunset Overdrive and apply some critical thinking to see that with a proven IP they could get something special. Now they're a decade behind trying to scramble with Marvel's Blade.

Its just another bullet point in the ever-growing list of terrible decision making, understanding the market, reading the tea leaves, etc. Why anybody continues to have faith in Xbox is beyond me.

IIFloodyII · May 12, 2024

Hero said:
I mean, okay, sure. At the time it wasn't specifically known that it would turn out to be Spider-Man but Insomniac did reach out to both Sony and Microsoft with the aim of creating a first party Marvel game that could outdo Arkham. You'd think someone that wasn't completely incompetent at Microsoft would be able to see what they did with Sunset Overdrive and apply some critical thinking to see that with a proven IP they could get something special. Now they're a decade behind trying to scramble with Marvel's Blade.

Its just another bullet point in the ever-growing list of terrible decision making, understanding the market, reading the tea leaves, etc. Why anybody continues to have faith in Xbox is beyond me.

Insomniac was reached out to by Sony, not the other way around. Marvel went to Sony (probably around the same time they went to MS and a few other big publishers) and said they want them to do a game using one of their I.P (Sony could pick), Sony took the deal to Insomniac, who picked Spidey.

MS were never offered Spidey or Insomniac, they were offered a Marvel I.P but had to do all the work, they said nope. They have been far more miss than hit, so not a terrible decision on their end really.

JohnnyToonami · May 12, 2024

TheUnsungHero26 said:
I'm always amazed how people continue to misinterpret this.

They called it a "second-run" Stadia game, because that's literally what it was going to be (at the time). It's not a comment or an insult on BG3's quality.

What? What does this even mean? They blew it on BG3 because no one at MS was smart enough to take a quick peek on the internet to see the immense hype that game was getting for years when it was in EA. It's shocking when dipshits like Spencer and Greenburger are terminally online and don't pick up on this.

Digital Dinosaur · May 12, 2024

The 360 wasn't a fluke for what Xbox was at the time. Everyone involved was talented and knew exactly how to springboard off the OG XBox's relative success.

The problem was Microsoft being Microsoft. The usual unforced error of new executives wanting to steal valor and pretend continued success could be credited only to them. Throwing everything out for Xbox One, reimagining it as an ill-defined living room hydra of a set-top box, and driving straight off a cliff just as Sony came out swinging with the PS4 doing everything right.

Having been there since the start of Xbox, it still feels unreal and dreamlike to me. The 360 had, to the original Xbox team's credit, become video games for much of the world.

Then boom.

hydruxo · May 12, 2024

I was already barely using my Series X as it was and once I built a new PC earlier this year I haven't touched it at all. Honestly I regret ever buying it to begin with. Their first party output has just been so disappointing outside of a few like Hi-Fi Rush and Forza Horizon 5.

Derbel McDillet · May 13, 2024

JohnnyToonami said:
What? What does this even mean? They blew it on BG3 because no one at MS was smart enough to take a quick peek on the internet to see the immense hype that game was getting for years when it was in EA. It's shocking when dipshits like Spencer and Greenburger are terminally online and don't pick up on this.

Second run = second release.
After it released on Stadia (for context on how long ago this email exchange was).
This was for game pass consideration.
This is 20/20 hindsight vision for a game that is on their system currently.

AuthenticM · May 13, 2024

Digital Dinosaur said:
The 360 had, to the original Xbox team's credit, become video games for much of the world.

The 360 had more mindshare than the PS3 in North America and the UK. In the rest of the world, it was still Playstation and Nintendo.

BuggeryBugz · May 13, 2024

GamerJM said:
I don't really understand what the point of buying an Xbox instead of a PC is, other than just not having the funds to buy a gaming PC or the desire to set a PC up. Especially if they're going to be doing away with physical games.

You answered most of it yourself but I'll give you some more
- a good PC is expensive
- I don't want to sit a desk to play my videogames
- console is plug and play and easier to use.

I'm at the point that if gamepass is still around and exclusive to Xbox then I'll buy Xbox hardware (providing they are still making them). If gamepass lowers in value (ie no day one games) then I'll look at moving to PlayStation.

9wilds · May 13, 2024

SNRUB said:
I'm reminded that they turned down Baldur's Gate and decried it as some low rent Stadia game

Let's be clear. They called it a "second-run Stadia game," which it literally was assuming they're generally grouping Stadia games into mini generations. The game was originally developed for Stadia.

You're assuming that they mention this negatively but we really don't know. There's no helpful context.

Rover · May 13, 2024

I'm pretty late to Xbox, but I guess I like it as a media device and a solid system for multiplatform games. IMO the Series X is well designed and runs quietly and doesn't take up much room.

But yeah the first party stuff has been kind of abysmal. I went in already not being a fan of Halo or Gears, but Forza was kinda disappointing and Starfield was just not the game I wanted it to be.

You could say, "okay, maybe if Nintendo is great for first party, and Sony is a good all-rounder, then Xbox can be at the other end with great third party support". Maybe that was the case in the 360 days but it doesn't feel like it now. I feel like the acquisitions and Game Pass have really sidetracked them.

KamenSenshi · May 13, 2024

A lot of times when people say Microsoft's studios are mismanaged I think "they aren't even managed" but then I remember why and it all makes more sense. Phil is still the "tvtvtv" guy he always was and when you look at all the failings with that in mind it makes sense why he wants to be the Netflix, why he pushes services and things you don't own, why they have no eye at all for game first decisions.

Look at BG3 or their response to Mihiyo or turning down Marvel saying they only want to work on things they own only for Sony to snap that up and for them to go back on that themselves. That's ignoring the fact that they then proceeded to not really release much at all anyway.

Even if you wanted to be charitable and say they had zero money and couldn't spare a team to work on a Marvel game, Insomniac was right there. It explains why he sees no point in exclusives and why Xbox Game Studios has basically nothing to show for the past decade in terms of major or new IP.

I don't think there is a point in Xbox in it's current form or that the heads could even answer that. Maybe they'll eventually settle into being the biggest 3rd party but in terms of hardware there's not really a point.

Hero · May 13, 2024

IIFloodyII said:
Insomniac was reached out to by Sony, not the other way around. Marvel went to Sony (probably around the same time they went to MS and a few other big publishers) and said they want them to do a game using one of their I.P (Sony could pick), Sony took the deal to Insomniac, who picked Spidey.

MS were never offered Spidey or Insomniac, they were offered a Marvel I.P but had to do all the work, they said nope. They have been far more miss than hit, so not a terrible decision on their end really.

Thanks for correcting me, I was misremembering. Lead me back to an old thread on here actually covering it.

https://www.resetera.com/threads/hi...ssions-with-activision-microsoft-sony.586217/

horkrux · May 13, 2024

TheUnsungHero26 said:
I'm always amazed how people continue to misinterpret this.

They called it a "second-run" Stadia game, because that's literally what it was going to be (at the time). It's not a comment or an insult on BG3's quality.

Considering the notes attached to the other games, there is no reason to believe it was mentioned for any other reason but to stress its unimportance and explain the tier assigned to it. It's useless information otherwise, information that even the average gamer probably wasn't aware of at the time, because they didn't care about Stadia.

entrydenied · May 13, 2024

SNRUB said:
I'm reminded that they turned down Baldur's Gate and decried it as some low rent Stadia game and that title in turn went on to fucking obliterate Starfield on launch day, the game Spencer was banking on being the system seller everyone and their grandmother would want to play:

Microsoft completely misjudged Baldur’s Gate 3

Not a great look for Microsoft

www.polygon.com

You could write a book spanning across multiple volumes of how MS fumbled the bag since Xbox's inception. A division that just thrives on incompetence. They had so many countless opportunities to turn the tide and they just kept tripping over themselves.

They didn't actually turn down BG3. The 5 million isn't a figure that Larian Studios wanted but Xbox's own internal estimated cost of what companies might ask for to get a game onto GamePass. From what Larian Studios had said about subs, it's highly unlikely that they approach either platforms to negotiate for day one release on subscription services.

xmassteps · May 13, 2024

AuthenticM said:
The 360 had more mindshare than the PS3 in North America and the UK. In the rest of the world, it was still Playstation and Nintendo.

There was a brief a shining period where mums across the UK referred to all consoles as "Xbox". But they messed it up

Velveteen Touch · May 13, 2024

Fantastic article. I've also settled to the conclusion that my series s is now just a backwards compatibility machine. The only thing I'm really looking forward to is State of Decay 3, but with all this happening I'm definitely concerned Undead Labs won't be given the chance to give the game the same amount of care they were able to give 2.

Or if they'll be allowed to exist after releasing it.

Shirkelton · May 13, 2024

Xbox didn't turn down or insult BG3, though Sven did indicate he thought they'd misjudged the title's worth, but the cock-up with the Series S and BG3 and it's staggered release is squarely on them.

Fallout-NL · May 13, 2024

Nere said:
Holy shit this quote

Man, that just says it all doesn't it.

L11ghtman said:
Yes and if my grandmother had wheels she'd be a bicycle.

They did not do a good job making those games. They have not done a good job developing any sort of consistent quality in gaming in a full decade. They mismanaged Halo and the MIA Perfect Dark and Fable sequels. They shipped Hi Fi as a shadow drop because it was something they simply acquired coincidentally chasing Bethesda and they clearly didn't know what to do with it. They did not recognize how bad Redfall was. They were wrong about Starfield giving their platform a sales boost.

If Xbox had done a great job making great games, you're right, I would not be saying this. But they haven't done a great job, so I am.

lol

TheBee · May 13, 2024

Nere said:
Holy shit this quote

Imagine Nintendo had this attitude. Games like Xenoblade would never get made.

[Eurogamer] What is the point of Xbox?

Linked the Fire

Corrupted by Vengeance

Linked the Fire

▲ Legend ▲

Unshakeable Resolve

One Winged Slayer

"This guy are sick"

Corrupted by Vengeance

One Winged Slayer

Son Altesse Sérénissime

One Winged Slayer

▲ Legend ▲

▲ Legend ▲

Son Altesse Sérénissime

One Winged Slayer