[Eurogamer] What is the point of Xbox?

[mcruz79]

I always was more of PlayStation first guy, specially for the first party games but if don't play on PC and likes to play lots and lots of games, the combo of Xbox Series X + Gamepass is a awesome option…

I have a PS5 and. Series X with gamepass and this is for me easely the best combo to play lots and lots of games without spent huge amount of money.

 

[Derbel McDillet]

Considering the notes attached to the other games, there is no reason to believe it was mentioned for any other reason but to stress its unimportance and explain the tier assigned to it. It's useless information otherwise, information that even the average gamer probably wasn't aware of at the time, because they didn't care about Stadia.

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"I'm choosing to read this in the most negative light no matter what I'm presented with."

It was mentioned as an option and a guestimate of how much they should pay to get it on gamepass.

 

[DuckSauce]

There wasn't a point to it since they started doing day 1 PC tbh.
I'm sure they realized this too and it was either buy Activision and basically run that business while slowly diluting xbox in that or just leave the space.

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Being on PC does not and never will reduce the interest in a console. I'm a bloody diehard PC player and I know that consoles have their worth with many people not wanting to deal with PC as a platform. Xbox putting their games on PC as well is not and has not ever been their problem.

 

[Uzzy]

Yes and if my grandmother had wheels she'd be a bicycle.

They did not do a good job making those games. They have not done a good job developing any sort of consistent quality in gaming in a full decade. They mismanaged Halo and the MIA Perfect Dark and Fable sequels. They shipped Hi Fi as a shadow drop because it was something they simply acquired coincidentally chasing Bethesda and they clearly didn't know what to do with it. They did not recognize how bad Redfall was. They were wrong about Starfield giving their platform a sales boost.

If Xbox had done a great job making great games, you're right, I would not be saying this. But they haven't done a great job, so I am.

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Hi Gino


View: https://youtu.be/A-RfHC91Ewc?si=i3v_CVC6KIPA2QhX

 

[Derbel McDillet]

Being on PC does not and never will reduce the interest in a console. I'm a bloody diehard PC player and I know that consoles have their worth with many people not wanting to deal with PC as a platform. Xbox putting their games on PC as well is not and has not ever been their problem.

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Why does it feel like I'm always trying to be converted? I get the appeal of PC, it's just not practical for me at this time, but the constant "there's no reason to have any console, buy a PC" kills like every conversation here. Just forcing a narrative. Who are people trying to convince, enjoy your own shit.

Not directed at you by the way.

 

[Vic20]

Yes and if my grandmother had wheels she'd be a bicycle.

They did not do a good job making those games. They have not done a good job developing any sort of consistent quality in gaming in a full decade. They mismanaged Halo and the MIA Perfect Dark and Fable sequels. They shipped Hi Fi as a shadow drop because it was something they simply acquired coincidentally chasing Bethesda and they clearly didn't know what to do with it. They did not recognize how bad Redfall was. They were wrong about Starfield giving their platform a sales boost.

If Xbox had done a great job making great games, you're right, I would not be saying this. But they haven't done a great job, so I am.

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Pentiment was incredible, it got zero marketing and zero buzz in the award season though, thanks booty

 

[horkrux]

"I'm choosing to read this in the most negative light no matter what I'm presented with."

It was mentioned as an option and a guestimate of how much they should pay to get it on gamepass.

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The best possible reading is that they knew so little about the game, they just called it the "Stadia PC RPG", which isn't much better and isn't going to convince anybody to seriously pursue this.
This is right next to entries such as "Huge PC nostalgia play" and "Strong GP performer".

 

[DarthMasta]

Yes and if my grandmother had wheels she'd be a bicycle.

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So... how are your cooking skills?

 

[Steamy Manatee]

surprisingly great read, concerning but we'll see

 

[404LinkNotFound]

Pentiment was incredible, it got zero marketing and zero buzz in the award season though, thanks booty

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Gonna be honest i dont see any reality where Pentiment wouldve sold well lol. Its definitely a niche's niche
But im glad it was made and it exists

 

[Tea-Stance]

For Xbox's sake (and as somebody who exclusively plays on the platform), I hope the future isn't Call of Duty, Fallout + 3 others, at the expense of everything else, though it could very well go that way.

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This is something I'm worried about as well, especially post ABK purchase. They have an amazing library of IP that would be sad to see be collecting dust.

 

[Barm]

knee jerk reaction and clickbait articles like this only cause me to lose more respect for games journalism.

Xbox is a platform you can play many thousands of games on for a relatively low entry price. It also has great services and generally strong hardware. Xbox has always offered a more PC centric experience which I appreciated for the years where I could not afford to build a gaming PC that would give me an equivalent experience.

I'm primarily a PC gamer now, but still find Game Pass to be compelling and would consider new hardware (especially a handheld) if and when it comes.

So my question is, why not Xbox?

 

[crespo]

After having read the article, the last things in my mind were "knee-jerk" or "clickbait."

 

[Vareon]

knee jerk reaction and clickbait articles like this only cause me to lose more respect for games journalism.

Xbox is a platform you can play many thousands of games on for a relatively low entry price. It also has great services and generally strong hardware. Xbox has always offered a more PC centric experience which I appreciated for the years where I could not afford to build a gaming PC that would give me an equivalent experience.

I'm primarily a PC gamer now, but still find Game Pass to be compelling and would consider new hardware (especially a handheld) if and when it comes.

So my question is, why not Xbox?

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Chat is this real?

 

[Azaan60]

knee jerk reaction and clickbait articles like this only cause me to lose more respect for games journalism.

Xbox is a platform you can play many thousands of games on for a relatively low entry price. It also has great services and generally strong hardware. Xbox has always offered a more PC centric experience which I appreciated for the years where I could not afford to build a gaming PC that would give me an equivalent experience.

I'm primarily a PC gamer now, but still find Game Pass to be compelling and would consider new hardware (especially a handheld) if and when it comes.

So my question is, why not Xbox?

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Lmao, I suggest you actually read the article

 

[Gjallarsean]

Pentiment was incredible, it got zero marketing and zero buzz in the award season though, thanks booty

Click to shrink...

I love that Pentiment was made in the first place, but there is zero world where it's a massive sales hit or GOTY contender, even if it was high on my personal list. Not just because of how small and niche the game is, but with when it was released, which is less a marketing thing and more a reality of game development and when the game was actually done. Press had largely already submitted their TGA ballots for nominees before it was actually released, almost nothing that is released after October gets serious consideration these days.

There's just a very large segment of the audience that doesn't think of a game like Pentiment as a "real" game because it's non-AAA, small single-player experience (and those people are losers). No amount of marketing would have changed that.

 

[CommodoreKong]

I'm reminded that they turned down Baldur's Gate and decried it as some low rent Stadia game and that title in turn went on to fucking obliterate Starfield on launch day, the game Spencer was banking on being the system seller everyone and their grandmother would want to play:

Microsoft completely misjudged Baldur’s Gate 3

Not a great look for Microsoft

www.polygon.com

You could write a book spanning across multiple volumes of how MS fumbled the bag since Xbox's inception. A division that just thrives on incompetence. They had so many countless opportunities to turn the tide and they just kept tripping over themselves.

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I actually made a guess the BG3 CCU thread here on Era and a lot of people here were also underestimating BG3 as well

What Concurrent Player Count Will Baldur's Gate 3 Hit on Steam?

Update: View Baldur's Gate 3 concurrent stats here: https://steamdb.info/app/1086940/charts/ With Baldur's Gate 3 finally leaving early access on August 3rd I though it would be a fun to see what everyone thought Baldur's Gate 3 would hit for a concurrent player count on Steam. Dungeons and...

www.resetera.com

I actually guessed it would hit 500-750k which was higher than a lot of people.

I get why it was underestimated, Baldur's Gate as a game franchise was dead and while BG 1 and 2 were popular back in the day they weren't as huge as some franchises back then. I'm guessing the Divinity Original Sin audience was mostly on PC as well and not consoles. I just don't think many people thought it would be a Witcher 3 style breakout hit.

 

[AtomicShroom]

It's been clear from the start that Microsoft's ultimate goal with Xbox was to destroy the competition and become the dominant "time you spend in front of a screen" company. You can trace every decision they made to one very simple question: "How do we grow our audience?" And often, the decisions they made as of a result of that didn't consider they'd be shooting themselves in the foot elsewhere or otherwise. Often, the answer was "Copy what our competition is doing, but let's try and make it more ambitious." That's how you got Kinect. That's how you got the Avatars. That's how you got SmartGlass (remember that?). Other times, the answer was "Let's try to attract non-gamers", which resulted in the whole TV and Movies weirdness. Very rarely was the question"How do we make better games?" It was "How do we make games that bring in more revenue?", and this is why they've been the first to push for aggressive in-game monetization, for example.

Just go back and rewatch the Xbox 360 reveal video where they explain their vision for how reaching people like VelocityGirl (who will be able to create art for virtual skateboards in a game and sell them on the Xbox Marketplace (still hasn't happened, by the way)) will grow their Xbox ecosystem userbase to one *billion* people by bringing non-gamers. One billion people... One fucking billion people... That was in the 360 days. And they're still at like 1/10 of that goal even today, almost 20 years later. Xbox were dreaming big, too big, and as a result took decisions that ended up being bigger than they could chew, and neglecting what their competition has been doing.

 

[swsp]

Apologies for the possibly stale take, but I'm only getting around to this article now.

As a platform-holder specifically it's different to other publishers. It's about offering developers, the people actually taking the creative risks, the stability they can't find elsewhere. It's hiring, retaining, and providing the freedom to talented developers and then giving them the room to try things and, from time to time, allowing those things to fail.

By contrast, the culture that's developed at Xbox is seemingly one-and-done. One strike and you're out. Redfall didn't work? Forget the talent involved in Dishonored and Prey, forget, crucially, the invaluable lessons that team will have learned from its struggles with Redfall. You're gone. Hi-Fi Rush, exactly the kind of game the platform needs, didn't drive enough subscribers? See ya.

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I immediately thought of Netflix when I got to this part of the article, which I guess makes sense with Xbox so focused on Game Pass. I'm reminded of all the shows that people seemed to like but Netflix wouldn't renew because the viewership growth just wasn't there.

 

[Gavalanche]

Pentiment was incredible, it got zero marketing and zero buzz in the award season though, thanks booty

Click to shrink...

Pentiment is niche of the niche. Thats like asking why Steins;Gate didn't get any marketing despite being an incredible game. When a product is marketed, the company expects a return of investment, and no amount of marketing would have made that game into a big seller.

 

[Neuromancer]

Just go back and rewatch the Xbox 360 reveal video where they explain their vision for how reaching people like VelocityGirl (who will be able to create art for virtual skateboards in a game and sell them on the Xbox Marketplace (still hasn't happened, by the way)) will grow their Xbox ecosystem userbase to one *billion* people by bringing non-gamers. One billion people... One fucking billion people... That was in the 360 days. And they're still at like 1/10 of that goal even today, almost 20 years later. Xbox were dreaming big, too big, and as a result took decisions that ended up being bigger than they could chew, and neglecting what their competition has been doing.

Click to shrink...

Not that long ago they said their goal for Game Pass was to have 3 billion subscribers. That's more than a third of the planet. There's having goals, and there's delusion.

 

[Tea-Stance]

knee jerk reaction and clickbait articles like this only cause me to lose more respect for games journalism.

Xbox is a platform you can play many thousands of games on for a relatively low entry price. It also has great services and generally strong hardware. Xbox has always offered a more PC centric experience which I appreciated for the years where I could not afford to build a gaming PC that would give me an equivalent experience.

I'm primarily a PC gamer now, but still find Game Pass to be compelling and would consider new hardware (especially a handheld) if and when it comes.

So my question is, why not Xbox?

Click to shrink...

This a copy pasta I'm unaware of?

 

[Vic20]

Pentiment is niche of the niche. Thats like asking why Steins;Gate didn't get any marketing despite being an incredible game. When a product is marketed, the company expects a return of investment, and no amount of marketing would have made that game into a big seller.

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It's not about being a big seller, it's about putting the game into the consciousness of people, which Xbox failed to do at every stage.

We literally had reviews on day one with titles like: the best game you will never play.

I'm not one for developers interfering with reviews, but this is an exception, PR should've interfered and had titles like this changed, it gives a game a connotation that basically prevents people from trying it out.

I love that Pentiment was made in the first place, but there is zero world where it's a massive sales hit or GOTY contender, even if it was high on my personal list. Not just because of how small and niche the game is, but with when it was released, which is less a marketing thing and more a reality of game development and when the game was actually done. Press had largely already submitted their TGA ballots for nominees before it was actually released, almost nothing that is released after October gets serious consideration these days.

There's just a very large segment of the audience that doesn't think of a game like Pentiment as a "real" game because it's non-AAA, small single-player experience (and those people are losers). No amount of marketing would have changed that.

Click to shrink...

Then it's up to Xbox to change that perception, if a game like disco elysium could basically be talked about as one of the greats in the last decade, why can't I see the same for pentiment, I ain't asking for a franchise here, I'm asking for the game to get the recognition it deserves.

Gonna be honest i dont see any reality where Pentiment wouldve sold well lol. Its definitely a niche's niche
But im glad it was made and it exists

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Xbox game pass was meant to normalize for FP studios to make games like this, but instead comments like this shows to me that mission failed.

We haven't moved forward at all.

 

[Sydle]

Not that long ago they said their goal for Game Pass was to have 3 billion subscribers. That's more than a third of the planet. There's having goals, and there's delusion.

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Where did they say that? The Game Pass goal I've seen published is 100 million by 2030.

 

[Vince Death]

Not that long ago they said their goal for Game Pass was to have 3 billion subscribers. That's more than a third of the planet. There's having goals, and there's delusion.

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I wanna see the receipts for this one.

 

[Adam Tyner]

Where did they say that? The Game Pass goal I've seen published is 100 million by 2030.

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I can find Pachter saying something along these lines but nothing from Microsoft, at least not about Game Pass specifically.

Game Pass, that's their long long game, and I think Microsoft recognized very early on in this cycle that the future is the cloud and that if you don't have to sell a console your addressable Market goes from 200, 250, 300 million people who own consoles to 3 or 4 billion people who play games. That's their endgame, much like Netflix said 'how many people watch TV?' and the answer is 4 or 5 billion, so Netflix has 260 million now.

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That is not what they're trying to do. They're trying to win the game's business by offering games to 3 billion people, not to 300 million people.

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The closest I could find from Microsoft isn't about Game Pass but the entire size of the gaming market:

Microsoft says about 3 billion people play video games now, and it expects 4.5 billion will play by 2030.

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[Gestault]

This a copy pasta I'm unaware of?

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Other than the (ironically) knee-jerk reaction basically rejecting broader game coverage, is there something particularly off-base about what they said that would make it a copy-pasta? Nothing they said sounds particularly exaggerated, to my ears at least. It sounds like something someone would say when their expectations for a "bad" platform were informed by how it used to be, where a failed platform actually meant not enough games to play, or support completely dropping without any real warning (i.e., 16/32-bit consoles in the 90s).

 

[Sydle]

I can find Pachter saying something along these lines but nothing from Microsoft, at least not about Game Pass specifically.





The closest I could find from Microsoft isn't about Game Pass but the entire size of the gaming market:

Click to shrink...

But increasing the size of their addressable market is different than the goals the set for number of subscribers.

 

[Adam Tyner]

But increasing the size of their addressable market is different than the goals the set for number of subscribers.

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For sure. Perhaps Neuromancer saw one of those quotes a while back and misremembered the details. I cannot find anything about Microsoft/Xbox setting a multi-billion subscriber goal for Game Pass. (Their target was 100 million by 2030, wasn't it?)

 

[Sydle]

For sure. I'm assuming Neuromancer saw one of those quotes a while back and misremembered the details.

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Ah, that makes sense. Easy mistake to make considering all the info out there.

 

[Tobor]

In hindsight, even 100 million was a ridiculous goal.

Netflix had to fight and claw their way up to 270 million, and they have a MUCH higher addressable market and an ocean of content. I don't know where MS got data supporting 100 million as a possibility. Maybe they brought in Disco Stu.

 

[Rosebud]

Pentiment is niche of the niche. Thats like asking why Steins;Gate didn't get any marketing despite being an incredible game. When a product is marketed, the company expects a return of investment, and no amount of marketing would have made that game into a big seller.

Click to shrink...

Well, Steins;Gate had a very successful anime :p

 

[pikachief]

There once was a company that said "gaming? Yea, we can do that too!"

Turns out its harder than it looks.

 

[cardboardboxer]

Loved my One X back in 2019 when I got it after not having an Xbox since the 360 era. Playing old 360 games disc games I had in 4k was a real benefit, and Gamepass gave me enough to noodle around with besides. Was a great end to that generation.

I considered investing in this generation, but the Series S felt like a downgrade from the One X and I knew I needed a PS5 for the FF7 Remake sequels so I didn't want to spent the big bucks on a Series X. When I got a good version of the game I really wanted on the One X (FH5) I decided to wait, and in that time I have been convinced to leave Xbox alone.

 

[Neuromancer]

Where did they say that? The Game Pass goal I've seen published is 100 million by 2030.

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I wanna see the receipts for this one.

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"Our goal for Xbox Game Pass really ladders up to our goal at Xbox to reach the more than 3 billion gamers worldwide," said Ben Decker, head of gaming services marketing at Xbox, responding to Eurogamer's questions via email.

Click to shrink...

Is Xbox Game Pass too good to be true?

Video game subscriptions are all the rage. Or, maybe that's not quite right. It looks like video game subscriptions wil…

www.eurogamer.net

.
I guess you could say its their goal more for Xbox as a whole than Game Pass. Either way...

 

[Vince Death]

Is Xbox Game Pass too good to be true?

Video game subscriptions are all the rage. Or, maybe that's not quite right. It looks like video game subscriptions wil…

www.eurogamer.net

.
I guess you could say its their goal more for Xbox as a whole than Game Pass. Either way...

Click to shrink...

They could could buy Steam, Sony, Nintendo, epic, take 2 and EA and still wouldn't get 3 billion subscribers. Even they knew that

 

[Sydle]

Is Xbox Game Pass too good to be true?

Video game subscriptions are all the rage. Or, maybe that's not quite right. It looks like video game subscriptions wil…

www.eurogamer.net

.
I guess you could say its their goal more for Xbox as a whole than Game Pass. Either way...

Click to shrink...

Reach is typically corpo speak for total addressable market (TAM). They don't anticipate all of their TAM to become customers, it's just that they are all potential customers and want to do things that enable them to get a slice of that size pie.

 

[Kaji AF16]

I'm not objective when it comes to this, since Xbox has been my choice since 2010. Despite all its legendary mistakes (like the RROD, Mattrick´s TV-centric focus, mismanagement of Halo and other great IPs, an underpowered and overpriced Xbox One, and arguably the controversial acquisition of ABK), I believe the brand has a legacy of innovation and remains, in general, the most consumer-friendly among all major platform holders.

-It successfully entered an industry dominated by two cultural giants, Sony and Nintendo, and managed to challenge them to some extent. In some ways, it inherited Sega's mantle but with much more financial power.

-Xbox introduced sophisticated and stable online services on consoles, redefining the zeitgeist from a technical standpoint.

-The infamous Sony trolling at E3 2013 ("How to share games on PS4") resonated throughout the gaming sphere, but it was ultimately unfair, and the future was closer to Microsoft's diagnosis. Xbox One was a good console with many quality games. The decline of Halo and Gears did hurt it significantly.

-Game Pass, while slowing down, was very disruptive. Its impact cannot be overstated. For example, here in Argentina (where software pricing and piracy remain rampant) it is an accesible, versatile way to enjoy videogames.

-Play Anywhere and cross-play/cross-save represent significant steps toward a (convenient and ultimately inevitable, IMHO) hardware-agnostic future. Offering a cloud alternative could potentially affect Microsoft's first-party hardware sales, but it's a relevant move in the right direction.

I see these recurring prophecies of doom for Xbox, yet I´ve been enjoying videogames more than ever on my humble Series S (which is significantly cheaper than comparable options, both console and PC). Game Pass offers so much that I literally can´t give a try to everything I would like to play. And what a spectacle it is to be playing my GOAT, Microsoft Flight Simulator, decently through the cloud.

I may be in the minority, but Xbox still has a lot to offer. The brand's unforced errors and lukewarm reception outside key markets shouldn't take that away.

 

[GazRB]

Xbox keeps coming up with successful new business models (XBL, Gamepass) that Sony can just copy. Games are a lot harder to copy, and MS forgot that.

 

[MysteryM]

Give that og Xbox and the 360 were the best Xbox generation, it speaks volumes as to how badly Xbox has been managed by Microsoft.

 

[The Artisan]

I mean, the launch 360s had an over 50% chance of self destructing within 3 years. If they hadn't launched a year ahead and if Sony hadn't completely shit the bed they'd be a dead brand right now.

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the 360 may have had the worst hardware failure in the history of hardware failures, but even if the 360 launched in the same time frame as Sony and the consoles were similarly priced, there is still the fact that the Ps3 had the cell processor which held all the 3rd party developers back.

 

[Harmen]

the 360 may have had the worst hardware failure in the history of hardware failures, but even if the 360 launched in the same time frame as Sony and the consoles were similarly priced, there is still the fact that the Ps3 had the cell processor which held all the 3rd party developers back.

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And Sony was definitely not there yet in terms of online functionalities. They improved massively during the PS3 gen, but the 360 was way ahead when it launched on that front.

 

[Spork4000]

the 360 may have had the worst hardware failure in the history of hardware failures, but even if the 360 launched in the same time frame as Sony and the consoles were similarly priced, there is still the fact that the Ps3 had the cell processor which held all the 3rd party developers back.

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I agree, that's included in Sony "completely shitting the bed." The PS3 was an awful product all the way around, so even with the worst hardware failure of all time the Xbox was the better alternative for many.

 

[The Artisan]

And Sony was definitely not there yet in terms of online functionalities. They improved massively during the PS3 gen, but the 360 was way ahead when it launched on that front.

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do you mean that they improved during the Ps4 gen? because I don't remember much of the way of improvement during the Ps3's generation. not even after psplus was unveiled either.

I agree, that's included in Sony "completely shitting the bed." The PS3 was an awful product all the way around, so even with the worst hardware failure of all time the Xbox was the better alternative for many.

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oh I see. well, one could argue that the cell processor became an advantage for the Ps3 a few years into the generation when their 1st party studios were really harnessing it, but ultimately it was a huge part of their downfall in popularity so the counterargument could be if it was even worth it.

 

[Harmen]

do you mean that they improved during the Ps4 gen? because I don't remember much of the way of improvement during the Ps3's generation. not even after psplus was unveiled either.

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Well, not to the level of Xbox for sure, and the PS4 was a massive improvement for Sony. But I do recall Sony getting better and copying things from Xbox. Also with trophies and a better storefront than before.

But it is like 15-18 years ago, so honestly my memory could be way off. And I myself did not own a 360, but friends did.

My point however was that there was more to the 360 becoming so prominent than just being earlier on the market. I feel it would have made waves either way, as it did offer a really good system.

 

[The Artisan]

Well, not to the level of Xbox for sure, and the PS4 was a massive improvement for Sony. But I do recall Sony getting better and copying things from Xbox. Also with trophies and a better storefront than before.

But it is like 15-18 years ago, so honestly my memory could be way off. And I myself did not own a 360, but friends did.

My point however was that there was more to the 360 becoming so prominent than just being earlier on the market. I feel it would have made waves either way, as it did offer a really good system.

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I see. I honestly just thought maybe you wrote a typo and meant to put Ps4 where you wrote Ps3. but yeah, 360 had the superior online service, it had superior versions of multipaltform games, it had what might be the greatest controller of all time, and more.