[Eurogamer] Wizards of the Coast "now talking to lots of partners" about next Baldur's Gate

[CottonWolf]

I think hiring Owlcat makes a lot of sense.

Click to shrink...

I'm not sure that Owlcat would want to do it. Why sign up for years of being told "Larian would have done better" or "I prefer Larian's implementation of X"?

You're setting yourself up for a comparison that will never be good, which isn't to say anything about the quality of Owlcat's games (I think WotR is better than BG3), but they're not going to have the resources to produce something graphically comparable to BG3.

 

[Senjuro]

They must be a really toxic partner if Larian is just done with them.

Click to shrink...

Swen Vincke explicitly said it wasn't Wizards' fault but it's up to you if you believe him or think he's just being diplomatic.

 

[Mass Effect]

Can't say I envy anyone who has to follow after Larian's footsteps.

But as far as potential devs that fit the bill…

BioWare couldn't do it even if they wanted; the version of the studio is long gone. And obviously they're busy with both Dragon Age and Mass Effect.

There's Spiders, but I don't know if they could pull off something as big as BG3.

Obsidian has been done with doing licensed games for a while now. I doubt they'd be interested.

There's inXile, but, like with Spiders, I'm not sure they could do anything close to the scope of BG3.

And on top of all of this, would MS even be okay with doing another licensed game? Yes they're working on Blade, but there's a bigger incentive to work with Disney than there is with Hasbro/WotC.

I don't think anyone needs to worry about Microsoft making this game exclusive. Microsoft is very clearly moving away from that mentality especially for properties like this.

Click to shrink...

Yes but would that agree to day one PS5 and Switch 2 versions? Not this whole "indeterminate timeframe after launch" stuff they're doing with other games.

 

[JuniperAndSage]

I'm not sure that Owlcat would want to do it. Why sign up for years of being told "Larian would have done better" or "I prefer Larian's implementation of X"?

Click to shrink...

They were getting hit with that before BG3.

 

[Coyote Starrk]

If it's not Larian then a significant portion of my hype gets put on hold.


Trying to follow up a game like Baldur's Gate 3 on its own would be a hell of a task for Larian themselves let alone some random studio picking it up for the first time.

 

[Vivi]

Has Larian stated why they didn't want to continue with making the games at all even in the future? Was it just too much and the development team doesn't want all that stress and hassle again or is it more of a money thing where maybe they didn't get paid that well since it was a licensed game and just want to get paid for their work and on their own IP.

 

[FizzMino]

I'm sure WotC firing the people responsible for getting Larian onboard for BG3 in the first place had nothing to do with it at all, no sir

Click to shrink...

lol see, I rest my case.

Despite Larian saying one thing everyone is sure some conspiracy drove them away.

Ridiculous.

 

[FizzMino]

as best as we can tell, nothing, but thats kinda the issue, wotc took none of the risk, though tbf they made 18m, so not as much as you would think. honestly they should work with ms, and have obscidain/inxile make it a xbox/pc excusive.

Click to shrink...

Nothing like taking one of the best selling multiplatform games of the year and trying to make it an exclusive to piss off half your fanbase.

 

[Hotbug]

I'm not sure that Owlcat would want to do it. Why sign up for years of being told "Larian would have done better" or "I prefer Larian's implementation of X"?

You're setting yourself up for a comparison that will never be good, which isn't to say anything about the quality of Owlcat's games (I think WotR is better than BG3), but they're not going to have the resources to produce something graphically comparable to BG3.

Click to shrink...

There's also the issue of upfront investment:

Owlcat founder breaks down RPG budgets and Larian’s impact on genre: “We can’t invest $200 million to make BG3” | Game World Observer

RPGs have always been one of the most difficult and risky genres in terms of production. Here is what Owlcat Games founder and CEO Oleg Shpilchevskiy has to say about the challenges posed by rising costs, as well as the success of Baldur’s Gate 3 and its impact on the industry.

gameworldobserver.com

BG3 has a gigantic budget. Few studios can actually afford this, let alone put so much money into an isometric game. I know this was already the second game for Larian that was a hit-or-miss situation — when you invest all your money in one shot and then wait to see if it hits or not. Good for them, they are brave people, and it is clear that they're not doing this in vain. But, again, we can't invest, say, $200 million to make BG3 — we don't have that kind of money yet. And I don't know of any company in the world that would invest so much money in a CRPG.

Click to shrink...

 

[Slythe]

If it's a KOTOR 1 -> 2 situation and the new studio can get the same dev tools and utilize the existing UI and mechanics to make an iterative sequel, there's a chance.

If it's a page 1 rewrite game design wise it's gonna be ten years minimum and a complete coin toss how it turns out. That said I'm all for different studios getting a shot. It will be interesting if nothing else to see how another studio tackles the challenge.

 

[nonoriri]

Has Larian stated why they didn't want to continue with making the games at all even in the future? Was it just too much and the development team doesn't want all that stress and hassle again or is it more of a money thing where maybe they didn't get paid that well since it was a licensed game and just want to get paid for their work and on their own IP.

Click to shrink...

I think some of it is probably that they knocked it out of the park and created a ton of characters people really love but they don't own the rights to any of them. Everything they create ends up being owned by WOTC. I can see them wanting to replicate that success with characters and worlds they will own and control.

 

[Ruu]

I can't think of many I'd really trust with it. I feel like I'd be interested in seeing what Firaxis could do with the license though.

 

[yagal]

miHoYo with a gacha system

 

[PlanetSmasher]

miHoYo with a gacha system

Click to shrink...

Every single dialogue scene is six hours long and unskippable.

 

[FizzMino]

f it's a KOTOR 1 -> 2 situation and the new studio can get the same dev tools and utilize the existing UI and mechanics to make an iterative sequel, there's a chance.

Click to shrink...

BG3 was built on Larians in house Divinity 4 engine, so I doubt this would be doable.

 

[Naijaboy]

It's not surprising WotC wants another crack at it, Larian or not. But they fired everyone involved with BG3, so following up on will be a herculean task.

But hey, if Obsidian working on it gives us Alpha Protocol 2 I'll take it.

Owtcat's also possible, but I personally don't want WotC to pull yet another jersey move on Paizo.

 

[Slythe]

BG3 was built on Larians in house Divinity 4 engine, so I doubt this would be doable.

Click to shrink...

Understood Larian owns the tools, but it's possible WOTC can convince Larian to license the engine and existing BG assets to a new developer. Not saying it's likely but it's not unheard of. This is exactly what happened with KOTOR 2 and New Vegas.

My point is simply that if WOTC want an expedited sequel, that's really their only move.

 

[Princess Bubblegum]

Hasbro sure fucked up.

 

[CitizenVectron]

Hasbro sure fucked up.

Click to shrink...

What's the backstory on what happened, exactly?

 

[EntelechyFuff]

It's Spiders' time to shine...

Click to shrink...

I would lose my shit.

 

[Cow Mengde]

Somebody get FromSoft on the phone! It's their time to shine.

 

[FizzMino]

What's the backstory on what happened, exactly?

Click to shrink...

It's been covered in this thread exhaustively but....

Larian said they wanted to work on their own IP moving forward after nearly a half decade working on the D&D license. They said there was no beef between them and Wizards of the Coast, and that they loved working with them.

Despite this, every internet gossip is positive Larian now hates Hasboro because "reasons" despite their being literally a dozen statements from both companies to the opposite effect.

*shrug*

 

[Strings]

Wizards of the Coast:

 

[No Depth]

RIP Baldurs Gate.

 

[Melody]

Half expecting BG1/2 Remakes to train up/staff up a studio.

Will admit a BG without Larian kinda does lose my interest. Their games are just too fun to explore and mess around in, something that no other CRPG devs have been able to pull off as well.

 

[AAION]

David Cage's Baldur's Gate 4

Click to shrink...

There wasn't a single shower in the entirety of BG3 so I don't think David cage would be interested

 

[No Depth]

I also agree the better call is to focus on a uniquely different project like a Dark Alliance 3. Carry the branding, but avoid the long shadow a BG4 entails.

 

[RPG_Fanatic]

If Baldur's Gate expectations are too high, then maybe it is time to switch lanes to Neverwinter Nights 3 or Icewind Dale 3.

Or Temple of Elemental Evil Remake.

 

[FizzMino]

Or Temple of Elemental Evil Remake.

Click to shrink...

You have my attention.

 

[Vault]

Owlcat could make a sequel to BG2

The Pathfinder games already feel like that.

 

[CupOfDoom]

BG3 was a direct follow-up to the work Larian did with Divinity original sin 1 & 2. No other studio is making games like that.

Any studio that is gonna make BG4 would have to either go in a completely new direction with it or, spend a very long time trying to recreate the work Larian did.

It would be cool if we got a bunch of new D&D RPGs, but I strongly suspect that it will be a while before any game gets called BG4.

 

[FakePlasticTree]

I think some of it is probably that they knocked it out of the park and created a ton of characters people really love but they don't own the rights to any of them. Everything they create ends up being owned by WOTC. I can see them wanting to replicate that success with characters and worlds they will own and control.

Click to shrink...

That's how I see it, I don't think it's becsuse of any seeted hatred towards Wizards of the Coast.
It's most likely similar to BioWare post KOTOR, they want to make their own thing.

 

[Secret Bambino]

If Baldur's Gate expectations are too high, then maybe it is time to switch lanes to Neverwinter Nights 3 or Icewind Dale 3.

Or Temple of Elemental Evil Remake.

Click to shrink...

Or maybe Dark Alliance… oh, wait

 

[CitizenVectron]

If Baldur's Gate expectations are too high, then maybe it is time to switch lanes to Neverwinter Nights 3 or Icewind Dale 3.

Or Temple of Elemental Evil Remake.

Click to shrink...

An Indie-style farming game called The Dreary Garden Dale of Drizzt the Drow.

 

[adj_noun]

An Indie-style farming game

Click to shrink...

Dreamlight Valley Devs Making A Life-Sim RPG Set In Baldur's Gate III Universe

The new Dungeons & Dragons game from Gameloft will be released on consoles and PC

kotaku.com

🤔

 

[FakePlasticTree]

BG3 was a direct follow-up to the work Larian did with Divinity original sin 1 & 2. No other studio is making games like that.

Any studio that is gonna make BG4 would have to either go in a completely new direction with it or, spend a very long time trying to recreate the work Larian did.

It would be cool if we got a bunch of new D&D RPGs, but I strongly suspect that it will be a while before any game gets called BG4.

Click to shrink...

Larian's games are very much open to players breaking them apart, it is the Final Fantasy Tactics of CRPGs and it's why I think they are best in the business. While I like Deadfire and Tyranny and some such they are just too traditional in their design.

And it does feel like Larian are among the few who are making those types of RPGs that both look back but also forward. So yeah a hypothetical BG4 would have to follow up on that and most devs probably aint too hot on that.

 

[Princess Bubblegum]

It's been covered in this thread exhaustively but....

Larian said they wanted to work on their own IP moving forward after nearly a half decade working on the D&D license. They said there was no beef between them and Wizards of the Coast, and that they loved working with them.

Despite this, every internet gossip is positive Larian now hates Hasboro because "reasons" despite their being literally a dozen statements from both companies to the opposite effect.

*shrug*

Click to shrink...

Regardless of what Larian says publicly, Hasbro did let go of everyone on their side responsible for facilitating BG3.

 

[Senjuro]

Planescape would be the best test for a new studio. The main expectation that comes with Planescape is good writing and that doesn't depend as much on budget and team size.

 

[MorshuTheTrader]

Why the consipiracies? lol

Larian is in a super unique position. They're coming off one of the most critically acclaimed games of the year and have built a huge reputation, meaning people will show up for their next game based solely on that. This gives them a great oppurtunity to turn their own IP (Divinity or something new) into something big, which is WAY more valuable to an indipendant company in this day and age than just making another great game owned by someone else.

 

[CrichtonKicks]

Also worth pointing out that WotC didn't fund BG3 or anything like that. It was a one sided arrangement- Larian had to pay them to use the license.

So any new studio coming into this for BG4 would have to be able to bring the huge budget to the table themselves unless WotC is willing to actually act as a normal publisher this time out and pay the studio for development.

 

[The_R3medy]

The only studios I could see handling a CRPG like that anymore are basically inXile and Owlcat.

That said, I can only imagine how daunting this task would be.

 

[Spinluck]

David Cage's Baldur's Gate 4

Click to shrink...

The end credits would reveal it was a Hideo Kojima Production all along.

Can't wait.

 

[MikeProtagonist]

Hasbro stock has tanked 50% since 2020 and they will be looking to cash grab the living shit out of Baldur's Gate and it will not go well

Click to shrink...

Release high quality figures of all the characters in the game. Star Wars that shit. Let us buy everyone from Raphael to those kids that sell newspapers in Baldur's Gate. Make all the money.

 

[Pocky4Th3Win]

Give it to Obsidian.

 

[KrAzY]

The studio doing exodus can do it and be their fantasy output and since they are owned by wizards why not

 

[GwynDiesel]

If it's not Larian then a significant portion of my hype gets put on hold.


Trying to follow up a game like Baldur's Gate 3 on its own would be a hell of a task for Larian themselves let alone some random studio picking it up for the first time.

Click to shrink...

Idk, tbh they've said much of the effort was spent converting 5e to a compelling game format. I think with that under their belt and solved they'd be free to really focus in and make something even better.

 

[Meowmixez]

I'm not sure that Owlcat would want to do it. Why sign up for years of being told "Larian would have done better" or "I prefer Larian's implementation of X"?

You're setting yourself up for a comparison that will never be good, which isn't to say anything about the quality of Owlcat's games (I think WotR is better than BG3), but they're not going to have the resources to produce something graphically comparable to BG3.

Click to shrink...

I think a big ol bag of cash would take the sting out of criticism. Beyond that, Owlcat is making a name for itself and I'm sure is still growing. That's a studio that is going to evolve overtime. I don't think any sequel to this is going to be done on a budget similar to what Owlcat has had to work with in the past.

 

[SinnyIndonesian]

lol see, I rest my case.

Despite Larian saying one thing everyone is sure some conspiracy drove them away.

Ridiculous.

Click to shrink...

What's ridiculous is putting words in people's mouth. There's no fucking conspiracy--but it doesn't take a genius to see how the only major dev studio that loudly and publicly condemned mass layoffs would no longer want to work with a company who just laid off the people who made their big game happened in the first place.

It's one thing if Larian only said they don't want to do BG4 next. It's another thing entirely to say they won't ever work with D&D stuff anymore.

 

[dosh]

This is 100% ERA bubble in action. Original Sin 2 was a huge hit- selling somewhere in the area of 8 million copies. Larian was not some some small, niche developer before BG3.

Click to shrink...

No. This is me not playing turn-based isometric RPGs since Fallout 2 in 1998 and mostly ignoring the genre and its developers for 25 years. Like millions of people who, similarly, had little interest in playing such games and weren't really aware of Larian's name before the GOTY juggernaut that is BG3.

 

[SilentStorm]

Give them to Capgods.

Click to shrink...

Thread over pretty fast, but seriously, if Capcom announced a new Dungeons and Dragons beat'em up, i would be ecstatic, or just a plain action game.

There has been a bit of a beat'em up revival and it's weird that Capcom, aside from re-releasing their old games, haven't really tried anything with the genre recently.

Dungeons and Dragons would be a return to classics plus be part of an established IP.